January 2009 - openSUSE Features - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[openFate 304879] OOo: Update of KDE integration to KDE4
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 18 Jan '09

18 Jan '09

Feature changed by: Bernhard Friedreich (Bernhard1234) Feature #304879, revision 20 Title: OOo: Update of KDE integration to KDE4 openSUSE-11.1: Rejected by JP Rosevear <jpr(a)novell.com> reject date: 2008-08-15 11:47:35 reject reason: As per PM recommendation. Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important Requested by: Stephan Binner (beineri) + Interested: Bernhard Friedreich (bernhard1234) Interested: Markus K (kamikazow) Interested: Maxi Schimmel (maxxs) Interested: Ruchir Brahmbhatt (ruchir) Interested: Stephan Kulow (coolo) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The current OOo KDE integration (file dialogs, addressbook, interface/icon theme,...) is based on KDE3. As openSUSE 11.1/SLED 11 will likely not include KDE3 anymore it has to be upgraded to KDE4. Discussion: #1: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2008-06-13 09:54:23) There are far too many mandatory OOo features. Please reevaluate - it's unlikely that we won't ship KDE3 apps in SLED11 #2: Dirk Mueller (dirkmueller) (2008-06-13 13:25:48) (reply to #1) we will ship KDE3 libs, yes. that doesn't mean that we desire to have KDE3 app dependencies ;) #7: Rajesh Ganesan (ganesanrajesh) (2009-01-07 03:20:08) Well, an excellent idea and most expected too. But (http://kde.openoffice.org/) seems struck at March 2006 itself. Any plans(or chance) of revival? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=304879

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[openFate 120340] Run download and install in parallel
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 18 Jan '09

18 Jan '09

Feature changed by: Bernhard Friedreich (Bernhard1234) Feature #120340, revision 42 Title: Run download and install in parallel openSUSE-10.2: Rejected by Klaus Kämpf <kkaempf(a)novell.com> reject date: 2006-08-09 11:36:10 reject reason: Not possible in 10.2 timeframe Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-10.3: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2007-08-01 10:25:01 reject reason: Out of time. Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.0: Rejected by Jiri Srain <jsrain(a)novell.com> reject date: 2008-03-28 13:56:11 reject reason: Out of resources for 11.0. Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.1: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2008-07-11 12:06:35 reject reason: This needs to wait. Postponing. Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) Requested by: Peter Poeml (poeml) Requested by: Reinhard Max (rmax) + Interested: Bernhard Friedreich (bernhard1234) Interested: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Interested: Lukas Ocilka (locilka) Interested: Robert Davies (robopensuse) Interested: Ruchir Brahmbhatt (ruchir) Interested: Stephan Binner (beineri) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Network installation could be improved by running package download and package installation in parallel. References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=60844 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=209799 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=128050 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=370457 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=370054 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=385711 http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/Failover http://metalinker.org/ Fate #300660: Download package groups before install Discussion: #2: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2006-08-09 11:36:42) Michael already looked at this. Should be further evaluated for 10.3 #3: Edith Parzefall (emapedl) (2007-07-31 16:56:12) Problem is: what do we do if we lost the network connection when only half the packages are installed? #7: Reinhard Max (rmax) (2008-04-10 11:42:43) (reply to #3) I think this is a general problem for network based installations. Can you elaborate if/why you see this as a special problem when download and installation are running in parallel? #8: Peter Poeml (poeml) (2008-05-19 14:49:53) (reply to #7) For reliable operation of a business critical server, it is a must that packages are downloaded first, before the installation/update is started. Otherwise a network outage can lead to a broken system which is half updated. So if parallel download/install is implemented (for desktop users, maybe...) then please make sure that it is possible to disable it. #9: Reinhard Max (rmax) (2008-05-19 16:01:15) (reply to #8) As we just sorted out on IRC, the current implementation also doesn't allow to complete download before starting installation and the feature proposed here wouldn't make this worse. But as the wish of server admins to have all packages downloaded before starting to install them is very valid, I think we should extend this feature request to contain that requirement as well, and probably rename it to "decouple download and installation". If download and installation are properly decoupled, it should just be a matter of the parameters the algorithm is called with to get one of the following behaviours: * Download and install packages one by one (as it is now) * Keep downloading subsequent packages while installing (as originally proposed here) * Use a fixed-size download cache for flow control between download an installations (in situations where download is faster than installation and disk space is limited) * Download all packages of an update or installation and install them afterwards (as requested by Peter for server admins) #10: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2008-05-20 10:22:10) (reply to #9) We already do have similar feature: #300660: Download package groups before install #4: Edith Parzefall (emapedl) (2007-07-31 16:57:22) Please reject for 10.3. #5: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-01-10 16:23:46) This is included in the ZYpp plan for 11.0, however implementation will start after beta. Will keep in evaluation, it depends on other milestones for beta1 -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=120340

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[openFate 120326] Resume download
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 18 Jan '09

18 Jan '09

Feature changed by: Bernhard Friedreich (Bernhard1234) Feature #120326, revision 36 Title: Resume download openSUSE-10.2: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2006-09-21 09:56:17 reject reason: Not enough resources to implement in time. Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Desirable openSUSE-10.3: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2007-07-25 15:20:32 reject reason: Out of time. Postponing. Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Desirable openSUSE-11.0: Rejected by Jiri Srain <jsrain(a)novell.com> reject date: 2008-03-28 13:51:03 reject reason: Out of resources for 11.0. Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.1: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2008-07-01 11:34:46 reject reason: Postponing, needs downloading refactor. Priority Requester: Desirable openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) Interested: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) + Interested: Bernhard Friedreich (bernhard1234) Interested: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Interested: Ruchir Brahmbhatt (ruchir) Interested: Sebastian Siebert (freespacer) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: YaST/YOU times out too easy when downloading large packages like kde- base (14 MB) over a single ISDN connection. Please cache the half downloaded package so I don't have to start from the beginning again. See http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=9740 (http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=9740) http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=278507 (http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=9740) Discussion: #1: Gerald Pfeifer (geraldpfeifer) (2006-06-30 17:40:31) Klaus, do you now whether this is still an issue? #2: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2006-06-30 18:38:23) We still have very large packages (kernel, OpenOffice_org) which might not download completely in one go. #7: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2007-11-23 10:32:46) Related to commit-refactoring. #9: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2008-06-12 20:21:33) Klaus, are you still running ISDN? just kidding :-) Stano, please your opinion on workload - is this easily achievable? if not, there are hgher priorities. #10: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2008-06-20 13:10:21) (reply to #9) Jiri, could we get estimate for this? #11: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2008-08-04 08:59:34) (reply to #10) Since curl itself does support resuming download, then this feature should not be hard to be implemented. #12: Ruchir Brahmbhatt (ruchir) (2009-01-17 12:07:25) I also vote for this feature. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=120326

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[openFate 305162] Support Ext4 in Grub
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 18 Jan '09

18 Jan '09

Feature added by: coly li <coyli(a)novell.com> Feature #305162, revision 1, last change by Title: Support Ext4 in Grub openSUSE-11.1: New Priority Requester: Important Requested by: coly li <coyli(a)novell.com> Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Ext4 is in upstream kernel already. But since lack of grub legacy supporting, Ext4 can not be used as booting partition. By effort of opensuse's GSoC project, Ext4 stage1.5 is aded into grub legacy. We should consider adding the feature in next opensuse release. Code can be found from http://code.google.com/p/grub4ext4/downloads/list -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=305162

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[openFate 304894] Yast Product Creator - create a product based on the current system
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 18 Jan '09

18 Jan '09

Feature changed by: robermann79 robermann79 (robermann79) Feature #304894, revision 5 Title: Yast Product Creator - create a product based on the current system openSUSE-11.1: Duplicate of #303047 Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Ladislav Slezak (lslezak) Interested: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) Interested: Jiří Suchomel (jsuchome) + Interested: robermann79 robermann79 (robermann79) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The product creator module should be able to create a product with "Restore" pattern based on the current system. It would allow to easy reinstall the system using the same packages. The current product creator creates the product from scratch. This new option would use the currently installed packages to create a new pattern with all packages to ensure that they are installed at "Restore". References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=392772 Discussion: #1: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) (2009-01-18 06:08:51) Has anything been addressed in this yet? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=304894

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[openFate 304894] Yast Product Creator - create a product based on the current system
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 18 Jan '09

18 Jan '09

Feature changed by: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) Feature #304894, revision 4 Title: Yast Product Creator - create a product based on the current system openSUSE-11.1: Duplicate of #303047 Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Ladislav Slezak (lslezak) + Interested: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) Interested: Jiří Suchomel (jsuchome) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The product creator module should be able to create a product with "Restore" pattern based on the current system. It would allow to easy reinstall the system using the same packages. The current product creator creates the product from scratch. This new option would use the currently installed packages to create a new pattern with all packages to ensure that they are installed at "Restore". References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=392772 + Discussion: + #1: Dean Hilkewich (deanjo13) (2009-01-18 06:08:51) + Has anything been addressed in this yet? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=304894

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[openFate 120326] Resume download
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 18 Jan '09

18 Jan '09

Feature changed by: Sebastian Siebert (Freespacer) Feature #120326, revision 35 Title: Resume download openSUSE-10.2: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2006-09-21 09:56:17 reject reason: Not enough resources to implement in time. Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Desirable openSUSE-10.3: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2007-07-25 15:20:32 reject reason: Out of time. Postponing. Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Desirable openSUSE-11.0: Rejected by Jiri Srain <jsrain(a)novell.com> reject date: 2008-03-28 13:51:03 reject reason: Out of resources for 11.0. Priority Requester: Desirable Projectmanager: Important openSUSE-11.1: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2008-07-01 11:34:46 reject reason: Postponing, needs downloading refactor. Priority Requester: Desirable openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) Interested: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Interested: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Interested: Ruchir Brahmbhatt (ruchir) + Interested: Sebastian Siebert (freespacer) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: YaST/YOU times out too easy when downloading large packages like kde- base (14 MB) over a single ISDN connection. Please cache the half downloaded package so I don't have to start from the beginning again. See http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=9740 (http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=9740) http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=278507 (http://bugzilla.suse.de/show_bug.cgi?id=9740) Discussion: #1: Gerald Pfeifer (geraldpfeifer) (2006-06-30 17:40:31) Klaus, do you now whether this is still an issue? #2: Klaus Kämpf (kwk) (2006-06-30 18:38:23) We still have very large packages (kernel, OpenOffice_org) which might not download completely in one go. #7: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2007-11-23 10:32:46) Related to commit-refactoring. #9: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2008-06-12 20:21:33) Klaus, are you still running ISDN? just kidding :-) Stano, please your opinion on workload - is this easily achievable? if not, there are hgher priorities. #10: Stanislav Visnovsky (visnov) (2008-06-20 13:10:21) (reply to #9) Jiri, could we get estimate for this? #11: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2008-08-04 08:59:34) (reply to #10) Since curl itself does support resuming download, then this feature should not be hard to be implemented. #12: Ruchir Brahmbhatt (ruchir) (2009-01-17 12:07:25) I also vote for this feature. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=120326

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[openFate 300758] Show orphaned packages
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 18 Jan '09

18 Jan '09

Feature changed by: Rémy Marquis (Spyhawk) Feature #300758, revision 41 Title: Show orphaned packages openSUSE-10.2: Rejected by Thorsten Kukuk <kukuk(a)novell.com> reject date: 2006-08-02 11:31:19 reject reason: For SL10.2 we have to get libzypp really stable and fast before we add new features. Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-10.3: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2007-07-17 17:03:57 reject reason: Postponing. Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Desirable openSUSE-11.0: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2007-11-21 12:16:20 reject reason: Out of scope for 11.0 Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.1: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2008-07-07 13:34:02 reject reason: Postponing, needs underlaying infrastructure to be fixed first. Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Stephan Binner (beineri) Interested: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Interested: Andrey S (seld) Interested: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Interested: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) Interested: Pedro Canovas (pedrogeek) + Interested: Rémy Marquis (spyhawk) Interested: Ruchir Brahmbhatt (ruchir) Interested: Santiago Hirschfeld (jsantiagoh) Interested: Stefan Ott (steve_odd) Interested: Vincent Untz (vuntz) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The package manager should learn to show orphanized packages (packages which are not required by other packages and are not in wanted selections) and allow to deinstall them like the popular debfoster/deborphan tools. A typical use case: user installs an application which pulls in some dependencies to test it, uninstalls the application shortly after or way later but the dependencies stay unused installed on the system. Commandline UI (zypper) only. References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=166132 Discussion: #1: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2007-06-05 13:46:00) Schubi, is there any possibility to make solver tell which packages are orphanized? It would be interesting especially if the packages which are marked for deletion were considered as non-installed (eg. if foo- devel is installed but marked for deletion and nothing else requires foo, then foo is orphanized). #2: Stefan Schubert (schubi2) (2007-06-06 11:04:04) (reply to #1) Currently not cause the solver has no information about who (user, package,...) has triggered the installation of a package. If we are storing this information it would be possible for solver to remove these kind of packages too. It is not simple but doable. By the way, we will have to store this kind of information in the future. E.g. we need to save the "keep state by user" in a database in order to regard this state in future solver runs. #3: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2007-06-06 14:25:07) (reply to #2) Looks like a missunderstanding. Basically every package wihch is not required/recommended/suggested or doesn't enhance anything that is installed and not marked for deletion is IMO considered to be orphanized. If user eg. wants to remove a pattern including all its packages (which are not required by something else), solver providing this kind of information would help a lot (and I don't think that we would need any other information to be stored. #4: Stefan Schubert (schubi2) (2007-06-06 15:33:44) (reply to #3) I do not think so. What does "orphanized" mean ? Let me take your example from comment #1. foo should be deleted too if the user delete foo-devel and foo has been installed due the requirement of foo-devel. BUT the user will kill us if we are deleting foo although the user has installed foo explicit sometime ago in a seperate installation workflow. So this information ( The USER has installed foo) will be currently not saved and is needed here to decide if foo has to be deleted or not. #5: Stefan Schubert (schubi2) (2007-06-06 15:39:47) (reply to #3) Lets take your example concerning the erasing of patterns. That is much more complex. I have already described the problem here: http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/Solver#Known_Problems " Proper behaviour of erasing patterns" There are already some bugzilla entries: Bug 274283 - Delete iFolder from YaST makes eDirectory Delete mandatory Bug 238250 - YaST does not upgrade an Add-on Product #6: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2007-06-08 16:46:32) See also https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=166132 This is another use case for the same solver functionality #8: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2008-06-12 20:46:17) this should be commandline-only, definitely an advanced-user option. #9: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2008-06-12 20:47:28) cut from description: See Bug 140346 #10: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-11-03 11:24:53) As discussed in Prague, this could be done using the package history once we have a reader. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=300758

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[openFate 300758] Show orphaned packages
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 17 Jan '09

17 Jan '09

Feature changed by: Pedro Canovas (pedrogeek) Feature #300758, revision 40 Title: Show orphaned packages openSUSE-10.2: Rejected by Thorsten Kukuk <kukuk(a)novell.com> reject date: 2006-08-02 11:31:19 reject reason: For SL10.2 we have to get libzypp really stable and fast before we add new features. Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-10.3: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2007-07-17 17:03:57 reject reason: Postponing. Priority Requester: Important Projectmanager: Desirable openSUSE-11.0: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2007-11-21 12:16:20 reject reason: Out of scope for 11.0 Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.1: Rejected by Stanislav Visnovsky <visnov(a)novell.com> reject date: 2008-07-07 13:34:02 reject reason: Postponing, needs underlaying infrastructure to be fixed first. Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.2: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Stephan Binner (beineri) Interested: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Interested: Andrey S (seld) Interested: Ján Kupec (jkupec) Interested: Matthias Eckermann (mge1512) + Interested: Pedro Canovas (pedrogeek) Interested: Ruchir Brahmbhatt (ruchir) Interested: Santiago Hirschfeld (jsantiagoh) Interested: Stefan Ott (steve_odd) Interested: Vincent Untz (vuntz) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: The package manager should learn to show orphanized packages (packages which are not required by other packages and are not in wanted selections) and allow to deinstall them like the popular debfoster/deborphan tools. A typical use case: user installs an application which pulls in some dependencies to test it, uninstalls the application shortly after or way later but the dependencies stay unused installed on the system. Commandline UI (zypper) only. References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=166132 Discussion: #1: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2007-06-05 13:46:00) Schubi, is there any possibility to make solver tell which packages are orphanized? It would be interesting especially if the packages which are marked for deletion were considered as non-installed (eg. if foo- devel is installed but marked for deletion and nothing else requires foo, then foo is orphanized). #2: Stefan Schubert (schubi2) (2007-06-06 11:04:04) (reply to #1) Currently not cause the solver has no information about who (user, package,...) has triggered the installation of a package. If we are storing this information it would be possible for solver to remove these kind of packages too. It is not simple but doable. By the way, we will have to store this kind of information in the future. E.g. we need to save the "keep state by user" in a database in order to regard this state in future solver runs. #3: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2007-06-06 14:25:07) (reply to #2) Looks like a missunderstanding. Basically every package wihch is not required/recommended/suggested or doesn't enhance anything that is installed and not marked for deletion is IMO considered to be orphanized. If user eg. wants to remove a pattern including all its packages (which are not required by something else), solver providing this kind of information would help a lot (and I don't think that we would need any other information to be stored. #4: Stefan Schubert (schubi2) (2007-06-06 15:33:44) (reply to #3) I do not think so. What does "orphanized" mean ? Let me take your example from comment #1. foo should be deleted too if the user delete foo-devel and foo has been installed due the requirement of foo-devel. BUT the user will kill us if we are deleting foo although the user has installed foo explicit sometime ago in a seperate installation workflow. So this information ( The USER has installed foo) will be currently not saved and is needed here to decide if foo has to be deleted or not. #5: Stefan Schubert (schubi2) (2007-06-06 15:39:47) (reply to #3) Lets take your example concerning the erasing of patterns. That is much more complex. I have already described the problem here: http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/Solver#Known_Problems " Proper behaviour of erasing patterns" There are already some bugzilla entries: Bug 274283 - Delete iFolder from YaST makes eDirectory Delete mandatory Bug 238250 - YaST does not upgrade an Add-on Product #6: Jiri Srain (jsrain) (2007-06-08 16:46:32) See also https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=166132 This is another use case for the same solver functionality #8: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2008-06-12 20:46:17) this should be commandline-only, definitely an advanced-user option. #9: Federico Lucifredi (flucifredi) (2008-06-12 20:47:28) cut from description: See Bug 140346 #10: Duncan Mac-Vicar (dmacvicar) (2008-11-03 11:24:53) As discussed in Prague, this could be done using the package history once we have a reader. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=300758

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[openFate 305489] default email in email applications
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 17 Jan '09

17 Jan '09

Feature changed by: Vasiya G. Znaydyuk (-karlson-) Feature #305489, revision 7 Title: default email in email applications openSUSE-11.2: New Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: Martin Lasarsch (mlasars) Interested: Andrey Karepin (egdfree) Interested: Joe Brockmeier (jbrockmeier) + Interested: Vasiya G. Znaydyuk (-karlson-) Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: To get more subscriptions to the mailinglists it would be nice to have a "default mail" in the mail clients (evolution, kmail) which points the user to the mailinglists. Every openSUSE user should be subscribed to opensuse-announce at least. A simple reply to this "default mail" should subscribe to the list. Of course there could be more information in it, like other important lists, pointing to the main list page. evolution have already a "default mail", with general information about evolution, kmail afaik not. This might be also usefull for OEM customers to have a welcome mail for the customers, pointing to the support pages etc.. So general email "branding" packages which makes it possible to have such special "default mails" for the email clients would be usefull. Discussion: #1: Carlos Lange (cflange) (2009-01-17 19:59:30) There are several parts to this suggestion. 1) "default mail": If you mean "Default" in the sense that when I start a new message the To: field is filled out by default with the mailing- list address, I disagree with your comment. The user should set that and an inexperienced user should find herself/himself subscribing to a mailing-list by mistake, just because they forgot to reset the To: field. Such a user would be rightly upset and feel like they were trapped into doing it. 2) If you mean, however, that the address book in Evolution and Kmail should be pre-populated with relevant addresses, such as the mailing- list and others, in the same way the Firefox bookmarks toolbar comes pre-populated with the SUSE folder, then I would agree that this is a useful suggestion, because the user can freely choose to use those addresses or not. 3) I strongly disagree that every openSUSE user should be subscribed to the opensuse-announce mailing-list. I deal with many different types of users. Only a minority of them would be interested in receiving announcements and they actively subscribe to the mailing-list. The vast majority of them likes the Linux-way of being non-intrusive, without the nags and unsolicited messages from the proprietary world, that tend to be associated with annoying marketing strategies. Please, don't advocate that for openSUSE. The SUSE information box shown at the first login is as much in-your- face direct marketing as one should need to take when using openSUSE. And being beautiful and carefully designed as it is, it contains all information a new user needs to decide how much involved with the operating system they want to be. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/?rm=feature_show&id=305489

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