March 2008 - openSUSE Features - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[Fate 302957] Combined "where am I" page
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 28 Mar '08

28 Mar '08

Feature changed by: coolo Feature #302957, revision 30 Title: Combined "where am I" page openSUSE-11.0: Done Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important - SLED-11: New + SLED-11: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory SLES-11: Done Priority Requester: Mandatory Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Our (openSUSE) statistics show that most of our users are not native english speakers. So I'm blindly assuming they do not have a english keyboard either and do not live in an english speaking timezone. So I want the first page to be not just the language in a blue box, but to have _one_ installation page with language, timezone and keyboard selection. These selections should depend on each other, so depending on where I click first the others change. To have a good looking addon, I picture the timezone selection as picture and not as fullscreen list boxes. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 11:48:30) An additional note, feature #302955 is related (split translations out of installation system). #2: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 13:27:05) Isn't it easier for users who do not speak English to have the first dialog really as simple as possible (since they cannot read it)? Having just one selection box leads them straight where they need to get; I guess that most of them use mouse for installation, so keyboard is not an issue either... Also, we already have a support in isolinux to select language; then the first dialog is skipped. #3: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 14:13:14) If isolinux provides a language, then the page is not worse than the timezone page is now. Just that it also allows to change the language after the fact. If users do not grasp english _at all_, they will have a hard time booting the installation off the CD. So I would blindly assume that users have no problem with selecting Deutsch, русский or čeština when presented with a list even if they do not understand the exact context. And when next to that list is even a graphical presentation of the world, most will be able to select the part of the world they live in. #4: evamaria.fuchs(a)novell.com (2007-11-09 16:00:35) I think for the secondary target market of opensuse (first time user, home user)an installer wizard that consists of a series of screens would be convenient. Basically it's preferable that language-, time-zone- and keyboard- selection depend on each other so that modifying one will effect the others. But - as I prefer a picture (e.g. a rotating globe) for time- zone selection - sticking them together in one screen would clutter the whole thing up. #5: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-15 13:01:50) after some discussions with Eva, I want to reexpress my request: I want the language selection to be on one page together with license and a welcome text and the timezone dialog to be graphical and a proposed keyboard layout associated to the language from the first page. The license text doesn't have to be visible in full beauty. I talked with the lawyer and what I got was: it's ok if the license can be read, it doesn't have to optimized for scrolling. I'll work on a mockup. The challenge is that we might need a slightly different work flow for ncurses, but I think popups are ok for it. So you can write UI code, that either fills a special widget or opens a popup. #6: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:53:57) (reply to #5) Danger Mouse! I'm very far from a capable mockup designer. But here is my show: http://ktown.kde.org/~coolo/Namenlos.png #7: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 13:54:45) (reply to #6) Ciaran, just to verify: is this way to present the license ok? #9: cfarrell(a)suse.de (2007-11-19 08:51:13) (reply to #7) Provided that we maintain the status quo with regard to not proceeding with the installation until the user actually accepts the license. #8: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-18 14:39:45) (reply to #6) mocking up the timezone page, I leave to the interested reader. For reference: this is how unbuntu's installer looks like: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall?action=AttachFile&do=get… I would make the map a little smaller and do not show a region and not the name of the timezone again, but rather have the value of the combobox fill in what we have now as Europe/Berlin. Because I want a "Keyboard: English" with a little test field in there. But that is to be discussed. The main goal is to have a graphical selection instead of these fullscreen list boxes. #10: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 13:28:22) Mockup looks good. And the whole thing should simplify and shorten the installation process. #11: jsrain(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 16:57:23) The timezone dialog looks good to me, however, we should not present the other one in the current form. Even if we have a different dialog for NCurses, we still must take care of Qt with the resolution of 800x600. With the current font size, the text itself will not fit into the screen if it is 800x600. Also consider the license - if one wants to read it, he wants to read a reasonable part of the license without scrolling - and not to scroll every 3rd line. IMO this suggestion puts the usability a huge step back #12: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-19 18:23:04) (reply to #11) damn, fate crashed on my comment ;( Again: I'm not a good designer But as a matter of fact: we do not design the default screen estate for reading the license, but of course a better design can add a popup to read the full text in full screen. #14: locilka(a)novell.com (2007-11-29 13:10:32) Additional step to help user understand where he is and what he can do there is to remove a [Show Release Notes] button and place that button to a Welcome Dialog only. The button doesn't need to occupy installation wizard screen all the time, it often rather confuses users. Frankly, this wasn't my idea but I found it useful :) ;) #15: jsuchome(a)novell.com (2007-12-20 16:19:25) Proposal of timezone dialog with a map: http://w3.suse.de/~jsuchome/screenshots/yast2-timezone-wordmap-zoomed.png BTW, it may not have a sense to offer keyboard configuration together with timezone. Keyboard layout is currently decided according to selected language, so it may better fit together with language. But the language dialog could get eventually too crowded. #16: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-12-22 14:05:24) new screenshot for the first page (I tried ycp): http://ktown.kde.org/~coolo/yast7.png Some icons and some more text would help the design I'd think. #17: coolo(a)novell.com (2008-01-08 12:40:13) http://en.opensuse.org/Image:Yast8.png is Martin's counter proposal. This one needs icons to differ the combo boxes though, but I believe a keyboard and an UN flag should make this obvious enough. #18: locilka(a)novell.com (2008-01-10 15:24:31) (reply to #17) BTW: This complex dialog will not be part of yast2-country (or similar) but directly yast2-installation because it contains more than just defining the language and keyboard settings. License handling needs to be reworked. #19: jsuchome(a)novell.com (2008-01-23 09:37:39) (reply to #18) Well, OK than. I expect you will ask for creating some API of Language (and maybe Keyboard) module, because current one probably is not sufficient. The API should be used instead writing whole stuff again separately, so we don't have the language handling on more places. #20: locilka(a)novell.com (2008-01-28 11:22:59) (reply to #19) Yes, Language API would probably help a lot. Please, propose, what you could create considering the default state at http://svn.opensuse.org/svn/yast/trunk/installation/src/clients/inst_comple… For instance, generating the combo boxes for language and keyboard selections might be moved to the API (I saw some functions in the current API though). The current implementation has been done in a hurry before the alpha deadline, it needs to be polished. Feel free to change it directly, it's open source. #21: jsuchome(a)novell.com (2008-01-28 11:32:01) (reply to #20) I agree, currently the API for generating the widget contents is needed, maybe that's all. I have to check it. #22: locilka(a)novell.com (2008-02-01 04:09:18) New "where am I page" with Language, Keyboard, and License will be in 11.0 Alpha2. #23: locilka(a)novell.com (2008-02-27 11:10:18) (reply to #22) Done in openSUSE 11.0 Alpha2 (and later). There were some bugfixes and internal changes though... -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302957

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[Fate 303493] zypper: add separate messages for Required and Recomended packages
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 27 Mar '08

27 Mar '08

Feature changed by: visnov Feature #303493, revision 4 Title: zypper: add separate messages for Required and Recomended packages - openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation + openSUSE-11.0: Rejected by visnov(a)novell.com + reject date: 2008-03-27 13:50:16 + reject reason: Not enough time to look into this. Priority Requester: Important + openSUSE-11.1: Evaluation + Priority + Requester: Important + Projectmanager: Important SLES-11: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important + Projectmanager: Important Requested by: crrodriguez(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: currenly when you install a package with zypper, you just get the packages that are going to be installed, regardless if the are required or Reccommended,.. will be nice if the messages can be arranged to be more explict about what the package manager is doing. "The following NEW [required|reccomended] package is going to be installed: foo" also an informative message about Suggested packages should be shown "The following package(s) is(are) suggested but are not going to be installed foo bar " unless user pass --install-suggested or use a boolean configuration directive on zypp.conf or something, suggested packages should not be installed by default ..currently it seems to be completely ignored and does nothing. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=303493

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[Fate 302988] Don't Zap by default
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 20 Mar '08

20 Mar '08

Feature changed by: ke Feature #302988, revision 12 Title: Don't Zap by default openSUSE-11.0: Done Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important SLED-11: Done Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: We have this long standing issue that ctrl-alt-backspace is exiting the desktop without much the user can do about it, while every **** web site asks you if you want to discard random information if you browse away. While the zap functionality is useful for some and essential for some situations, where your X server is broken _and_ the keyboard combination is not _that_ easy to trigger, shutting it off completely is not preferred. So we discussed and what seems reasonable is press once -> beep, press twice -> zap. Egbert and Luc say this can be implemented in the X server and then we can leave the option on by default. + Documentation Impact: + yes Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 13:36:58) If this feature can't be implemented by let's say alpha 2 due to other constraints, I would like to change the default to not zapp for beta1. #2: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 14:41:40) fully in agreement with coolo. Do it with few effort asap or leave it. #3: sndirsch(a)novell.com (2008-01-05 13:07:34) Sounds like extortion to me. Not nice. And won't help in the end. People will complain again and we need to revert it again. #4: lverhaegen(a)novell.com (2008-03-20 02:12:54) Implemented in server and input driver code. Mailing patches to sndirsch for integration into packages. The Sax (or whatever) integration needed to specify this option at install time still needs to be done (i have no clue there). Implementation details: xorg.conf: Option "ZapWarning" "True" Uses PCSpeaker for beep. Press once, beep. Press again within 2s (which is ample), terminate. Documented in xorg.conf manpage. Users will be _so_ thrilled about this cool new feature in openSuSE. #5: sndirsch(a)novell.com (2008-03-20 16:21:16) sax2, which sets this option by default, xorg-x11-server and xorg-x11- driver-input has now been submitted to STABLE. ==> FIXED for STABLE/Factory *and* openSUSE 11.0 Beta1. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302988

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[Fate 302988] Don't Zap by default
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 20 Mar '08

20 Mar '08

Feature changed by: sndirsch Feature #302988, revision 11 Title: Don't Zap by default - openSUSE-11.0: Candidate + openSUSE-11.0: Done Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important - SLED-11: Candidate + SLED-11: Done Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: We have this long standing issue that ctrl-alt-backspace is exiting the desktop without much the user can do about it, while every **** web site asks you if you want to discard random information if you browse away. While the zap functionality is useful for some and essential for some situations, where your X server is broken _and_ the keyboard combination is not _that_ easy to trigger, shutting it off completely is not preferred. So we discussed and what seems reasonable is press once -> beep, press twice -> zap. Egbert and Luc say this can be implemented in the X server and then we can leave the option on by default. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 13:36:58) If this feature can't be implemented by let's say alpha 2 due to other constraints, I would like to change the default to not zapp for beta1. #2: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 14:41:40) fully in agreement with coolo. Do it with few effort asap or leave it. #3: sndirsch(a)novell.com (2008-01-05 13:07:34) Sounds like extortion to me. Not nice. And won't help in the end. People will complain again and we need to revert it again. #4: lverhaegen(a)novell.com (2008-03-20 02:12:54) Implemented in server and input driver code. Mailing patches to sndirsch for integration into packages. The Sax (or whatever) integration needed to specify this option at install time still needs to be done (i have no clue there). Implementation details: xorg.conf: Option "ZapWarning" "True" Uses PCSpeaker for beep. Press once, beep. Press again within 2s (which is ample), terminate. Documented in xorg.conf manpage. Users will be _so_ thrilled about this cool new feature in openSuSE. + #5: sndirsch(a)novell.com (2008-03-20 16:21:16) + sax2, which sets this option by default, xorg-x11-server and xorg-x11- + driver-input has now been submitted to STABLE. ==> FIXED for + STABLE/Factory *and* openSUSE 11.0 Beta1. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302988

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[Fate 302988] Don't Zap by default
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 20 Mar '08

20 Mar '08

Feature changed by: lverhaegen Feature #302988, revision 10 Title: Don't Zap by default openSUSE-11.0: Candidate Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important SLED-11: Candidate Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: We have this long standing issue that ctrl-alt-backspace is exiting the desktop without much the user can do about it, while every **** web site asks you if you want to discard random information if you browse away. While the zap functionality is useful for some and essential for some situations, where your X server is broken _and_ the keyboard combination is not _that_ easy to trigger, shutting it off completely is not preferred. So we discussed and what seems reasonable is press once -> beep, press twice -> zap. Egbert and Luc say this can be implemented in the X server and then we can leave the option on by default. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 13:36:58) If this feature can't be implemented by let's say alpha 2 due to other constraints, I would like to change the default to not zapp for beta1. #2: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 14:41:40) fully in agreement with coolo. Do it with few effort asap or leave it. #3: sndirsch(a)novell.com (2008-01-05 13:07:34) Sounds like extortion to me. Not nice. And won't help in the end. People will complain again and we need to revert it again. + #4: lverhaegen(a)novell.com (2008-03-20 02:12:54) + Implemented in server and input driver code. Mailing patches to + sndirsch for integration into packages. + The Sax (or whatever) integration needed to specify this option at + install time still needs to be done (i have no clue there). + Implementation details: + xorg.conf: Option "ZapWarning" "True" + Uses PCSpeaker for beep. Press once, beep. Press again within 2s (which + is ample), terminate. Documented in xorg.conf manpage. + Users will be _so_ thrilled about this cool new feature in openSuSE. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302988

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[Fate 302988] Don't Zap by default
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 19 Mar '08

19 Mar '08

Feature changed by: hvogel Feature #302988, revision 9 Title: Don't Zap by default - openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation + openSUSE-11.0: Candidate Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important - SLED-11: Evaluation + SLED-11: Candidate Priority Requester: Mandatory Projectmanager: Important Requested by: coolo(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: We have this long standing issue that ctrl-alt-backspace is exiting the desktop without much the user can do about it, while every **** web site asks you if you want to discard random information if you browse away. While the zap functionality is useful for some and essential for some situations, where your X server is broken _and_ the keyboard combination is not _that_ easy to trigger, shutting it off completely is not preferred. So we discussed and what seems reasonable is press once -> beep, press twice -> zap. Egbert and Luc say this can be implemented in the X server and then we can leave the option on by default. Discussion: #1: coolo(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 13:36:58) If this feature can't be implemented by let's say alpha 2 due to other constraints, I would like to change the default to not zapp for beta1. #2: michl(a)novell.com (2007-11-27 14:41:40) fully in agreement with coolo. Do it with few effort asap or leave it. #3: sndirsch(a)novell.com (2008-01-05 13:07:34) Sounds like extortion to me. Not nice. And won't help in the end. People will complain again and we need to revert it again. -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=302988

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[Fate 303527] Resolve dependencies after ignoring package download failure
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 19 Mar '08

19 Mar '08

Feature changed by: jsrain Feature #303527, revision 4 Title: Resolve dependencies after ignoring package download failure openSUSE-11.1: New Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: jkupec(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: YaST and Zypper should run the solver before resuming installation if download of a package fails and the user chooses to ignore that package. Currently YaST continues withough solving which makes the ignore button useful only if the user knows how the missing package will affect the system. References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=340345#c4 + http://lists.opensuse.org/zypp-devel/2008-03/msg00025.html -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=303527

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[Fate 303517] Configure a cronjob for refreshing repositories
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 18 Mar '08

18 Mar '08

Feature changed by: aj Feature #303517, revision 2 Title: Configure a cronjob for refreshing repositories - openSUSE-11.1: New + openSUSE-11.1: Evaluation Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: lslezak(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: Autorefresh configured repositories at certain times, this could be on certain days, or time of day, etc. A mockup and more details are in https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=346966 -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=303517

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[Fate 303367] Better Beagle Acceptance
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 17 Mar '08

17 Mar '08

Feature changed by: gekker Feature #303367, revision 7 Title: Better Beagle Acceptance openSUSE-11.0: Evaluation Priority Requester: Mandatory + Projectmanager: Important Requested by: aj(a)novell.com Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: There have been several discussions on the public openSUSE mailing lists, e.g. http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2008-01/msg00157.html where people complain about resource usage or garbage from beagle. I suggest that we analyze the current situation and check where are real problems and consider solutions. One option would be to make it easier for users to not enable beagle on their systems. Note: The feature request is about getting a better acceptance by our users of our indexing technology - and therefore let's figure out what are the problems they are hitting in real life. References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=282678 Discussion: #1: aj(a)novell.com (2008-01-20 11:12:58) See also bug 282678. #2: aj(a)novell.com (2008-01-23 16:23:51) Note: powertop advises "Suggestion: Disable or remove 'beagle' from your system. Beagle is the program that indexes for easy desktop search, however it's not very efficient and costs a significant amount of battery life.". #3: jpr(a)novell.com (2008-01-23 10:38:58) (reply to #2) Yes, this is well known and was covered extensively last year and caused by polling for battery status in some cases. 0.3.2 uses hal to detect battery status: http://www.mail-archive.com/dashboard-hackers@gnome.org/msg03464.html #4: jpr(a)novell.com (2008-01-23 10:41:35) (reply to #3) Also part of it was a mono issue: http://www.nabble.com/Beagle-indexing-when-running-on-batteries-td13842939.… -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=303367

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[Fate 303527] Resolve dependencies after ignoring package download failure
by fate_noreply＠suse.de 11 Mar '08

11 Mar '08

Feature changed by: jkupec Feature #303527, revision 2 Title: Resolve dependencies after ignoring package download failure openSUSE-11.1: New Priority Requester: Desirable Requested by: jkupec(a)novell.com + Partner organization: openSUSE.org Description: YaST and Zypper should run the solver before resuming installation if download of a package fails and the user chooses to ignore that package. Currently YaST continues withough solving which makes the ignore button useful only if the user knows how the missing package will affect the system. References: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=340345#c4 -- SUSE Feature Tool: http://partnerfate.suse.de/?rm=feature_show&id=303527

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