On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 6:07 pm, Thomas Adam wrote:

--- Paul Taylor wrote:

...

Hi all:

The key here seems to be using localdrake which is obviously their own implementation. Question is, how can I (can I?) do this with SuSE as easily?

This comes down to exporting the correct locale settings. You *must* make sure that you install the japanese locale rpms, and that you use the appropriate charset (define in /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, or /etc/fonts/config, if you're a xfs/xfs-xtt usrt).

It would also be best to export LANG_xx=

I've done all that Thomas but it still doesn't work. With Mandrake you press Shift + Space and an IME window pops up in the application. I need something as painless as that.

-- Thomas Adam

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--- Paul Taylor wrote:

...

I've done all that Thomas but it still doesn't work. With Mandrake you

Doesn't work? What, you mean it didn't play a fanfare for you, or did perhaps play a song for you instead? As usual your condescending tone is rather churlish and unhelpful. Yes I am a

On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 6:34 pm, Thomas Adam wrote: point and click user as are many on this list and no I don't have endless hours as part of a university course to play around with configuration files. A simple, "try this" would suffice. If all you can offer is condescension I would prefer you just bite your lip and keep quite. I am teaching Linux at school and influencing many students to adopt the system in a gradual manner as the dominant paradigm is a "point and click" system. If I turn around and chastice students arogantly because they have not recompiled a driver in order to make their system work which works perfectly well under Windows I will not get very far.

That "doesn't work" is an UTTERLY useless comment, Paul. Did you get any errors? What have you tried to do to perhaps fix it?

If I had any errors that meant anything I would post them for comment. It doesn't work means, it doesn't work.

...

press Shift + Space and an IME window pops up in the application. I need something as painless as that.

Well, I recommend you install Mandrake over SuSE in that case. Sorry, but if you want to be a point and click man like that, maybe window is more suited to you?

Despite this I will continue to use SuSE as I have done in my presumably pointless 'point and click' way as I have done for several years. I will also continue to coax and encourage students to use the system and where possible give them guidance and meaningful support about how to get over problems. Saying that you have to do it CLI all the time seems to me to be a stance more atuned to a system that dictates how you should do it with little option about how to change it - maybe windows is more suited to you?

-- Thomas Adam

Very angrily yours, Paul

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On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 7:45 pm, Thomas Adam wrote:

--- Paul Taylor wrote:

...

On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 6:34 pm, Thomas Adam wrote:

...

--- Paul Taylor wrote:

...

I've done all that Thomas but it still doesn't work. With Mandrake

you

...

Doesn't work? What, you mean it didn't play a fanfare for you, or did perhaps play a song for you instead?

As usual your condescending tone is rather churlish and unhelpful. Yes I am a point and click user as are many on this list and no I don't have endless hours as part of a university course to play around with configuration files.

It is a shame, since neither do I.

...

A simple, "try this" would suffice. If all you can offer is condescension I would prefer you just bite your lip and keep quite. I am teaching Linux at school and influencing many students to adopt the system in a gradual manner as the dominant paradigm is a "point and click" system. If I turn around and chastice students arogantly because they have not recompiled a driver in

order to make their system work which works perfectly well under Windows I will not get very far.

That's a nice sentiment, Paul. But, I hope that your students realise the the CLI has more power over GUI's. Yes, GUI's visually enumerate such functions as the CLI equivilents, but they will/can never replace them.

All things in good time Thomas. I agree with you completely and I know that the CLI is what it is all ultimately about and despite what I said above I do use it quite a lot, just not as well as you :) It is intimidating and many people do learn more visually. If I taught with just the text book I would certainly get much better quality of understanding but the amount of paper planes hitting me in the back of the head when I turned to the board would be unbareable.

...

...

That "doesn't work" is an UTTERLY useless comment, Paul. Did you get any errors? What have you tried to

do

...

to perhaps fix it?

If I had any errors that meant anything I would post them for comment. It doesn't work means, it doesn't work.

...

...

press Shift + Space and an IME window pops up in the application. I need something as painless as that.

Well, I recommend you install Mandrake over SuSE in that case. Sorry,

but

...

if you want to be a point and click man like that, maybe window is

more

...

suited to you?

Despite this I will continue to use SuSE as I have done in my presumably

pointless 'point and click' way as I have done for several years. I will also continue to coax and encourage students to use the system and where

possible give them guidance and meaningful support about how to get over

Good. I encourage that.

...

problems. Saying that you have to do it CLI all the time seems to me to be a stance more atuned to a system that dictates how you should do it with little option about how to change it - maybe windows is more suited to you?

No no no. The CLI is useful because it is something that is *always* there. How on earth can I use the GUI to help when at first glance I know *nothing* about the applications you may or may not have installed? With the CLI, *I* know that what I suggest to you will 99% of the time work.

I appreciate that and I do value your input though a bit more detail to start off with for the less experienced among us would lead to greater understanding all round.

...

...

-- Thomas Adam

Very angrily yours,

My humblest apologies, Paul.

Likewise. Your e-mail arrived after a frustrating day in front of the CLI that left me angry and frustrated and your comments seemed to be rubbing salt in the wound. I was not promoting Mandrake over any other distro, just asking what I could do to replicate what seemed to be a satisfyingly simple process on SuSE. I should know by now that your comments are as succinct and direct as the CLI that you champion. Please accept my apologies for my outburst. As Ian has pointed out, e-mail is a very poor means of communication. Paul

-- Thomas Adam

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I have noted since I joined this list that most discussed points are political and most contributors seem to have slight arrogance here. I I myself make no apologies for the politics inherent in my life and work. I am a socialist and use open source because it ties in with my ideological take on the world. For me, life is politics, it's as simple as that. I'm not sure about arrogance, depite my comments to Thomas. I think that many

posted several technical queries here before but no replies came back. When I however made some political points, tons of posts started to flood in. Even if we all have a strong trend to support OSS some people seem to still disagree pointlessly. That is my feeling anyway. People that are passionate about things will see things in minutiae and

On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 8:16 pm, ICT Support Officer wrote: people here have a great deal of knowledge which they give freely to others. Sometimes, it may come across as arrogant as the people giving out the information may sometimes forget that others in the list do not have their experience. As a teacher I have to explain things as much as possible in as many different ways as possible. Nothing against some of the technical people on this list but they may not always have the same patience for things that they take for granted. At the end of the day howver, the information and support on this list has got me a long way in my understanding and use of Linux. therefore argue strongly over things which from the outside may seem trivial. Sometimes I diagree strongly and get involved, other times I sit back and just read in disbelief, but I stay on.

For that reason I am unsubscribing and looking at other mail lists for practicality.

That's a shame because I thought you contributed a great deal to this list.

Regards to all

M Gural

-----Original Message----- From: Paul Taylor [mailto:ptaylor@uklinux.net] Sent: 07 December 2003 19:27 To: suse-linux-uk-schools@suse.com Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Turning Japanese - lessons in patience

On Sunday 07 Dec 2003 6:34 pm, Thomas Adam wrote:

...

--- Paul Taylor wrote:

...

I've done all that Thomas but it still doesn't work. With Mandrake you

Doesn't work? What, you mean it didn't play a fanfare for you, or did perhaps play a song for you instead?

As usual your condescending tone is rather churlish and unhelpful. Yes I am a point and click user as are many on this list and no I don't have endless hours as part of a university course to play around with configuration files. A simple, "try this" would suffice. If all you can offer is condescension I

would prefer you just bite your lip and keep quite. I am teaching Linux at school and influencing many students to adopt the system in a gradual manner

as the dominant paradigm is a "point and click" system. If I turn around and chastice students arogantly because they have not recompiled a driver in order to make their system work which works perfectly well under Windows I will not get very far.

...

That "doesn't work" is an UTTERLY useless comment, Paul. Did you get any errors? What have you tried to do to perhaps fix it?

If I had any errors that meant anything I would post them for comment. It doesn't work means, it doesn't work.

...

...

press Shift + Space and an IME window pops up in the application. I need something as painless as that.

Well, I recommend you install Mandrake over SuSE in that case. Sorry, but if you want to be a point and click man like that, maybe window is more suited to you?

Despite this I will continue to use SuSE as I have done in my presumably pointless 'point and click' way as I have done for several years. I will also continue to coax and encourage students to use the system and where possible give them guidance and meaningful support about how to get over problems. Saying that you have to do it CLI all the time seems to me to be a

stance more atuned to a system that dictates how you should do it with little option about how to change it - maybe windows is more suited to you?

...

-- Thomas Adam

Very angrily yours,

Paul

...

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On 2003-12-07 22:43:39 +0000 Grahame Leon-Smith at Free Computers wrote:

I understand that you can type the Esperanto characters in Linux, does anyone know how ?

I used to be able to work this in X 3.3.6 using xmodmap, but X 4.3 seems to need different incantations. I have a keymap file that works if used from the command-line with setxkbmap, but not from XF86Config. If anyone has some useful pointers on that, I'd appreciate it. If not, I'll continue experimenting. Fortunately, there is another way. If you add XkbOptions "compose:rwin" pressing the right symbol key next to AltGr will allow you to type two characters on top of each other. So, symbol ^ c produces the c-circumflex and so on. symbol b u produces u-breve. The same effect can be had from "setxkbmap -option compose:rwin" at the prompt. You should use utf-8 locale (export LANG=en_GB.utf-8 in your startups, or eo.utf-8 if you have esperanto locale files and want esperanto messages) and have unicode fonts (iso10646-1) installed for this to work, but that may be default in your system. Some desktops (including KDE, I think) have their own settings too. A FAQ about utf-8 is at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/unicode.html When I have the keymap file working, I'll document it and publish it. I'll try to remember to announce it here as well as in sce. -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only and possibly not of any group I know. Please http://remember.to/edit_messages on lists to be sure I read http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ gopher://g.towers.org.uk/ slef@jabber.at Creative copyleft computing services via http://www.ttllp.co.uk/