[opensuse-wiki] Good/cool links never change
hi, mediawiki is pretty flexible when it comes to managing links and renaming links. it adds a nice redirect page which makes sure that external links keep working. in the current state the new opensuse wiki is horrible. almost all external opensuse documentation (be it on build.o.o, in osc or in blog entries) is trash now, as they point to dead links. So I would like to ask ... can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated? the current situation is annoying and leaving a bad impression for the project. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 7/26/2010 11:05 AM, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
hi,
mediawiki is pretty flexible when it comes to managing links and renaming links. it adds a nice redirect page which makes sure that external links keep working.
in the current state the new opensuse wiki is horrible. almost all external opensuse documentation (be it on build.o.o, in osc or in blog entries) is trash now, as they point to dead links.
So I would like to ask ... can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated?
the current situation is annoying and leaving a bad impression for the project.
darix
I definitely agree on this one. I know with some of the content I've transferred I've left a 'note' saying its been transferred, but no redirects at this time. So, yes, I back this 100%. -Matt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hey, On 26.07.2010 17:05, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated?
You want the old wiki back with no focus on readers, no maintainable structure, no help for contributors, no standards. We are more than happy to help fixing the external links or fixing weak points in the new wiki. Simply going back is no option, sorry. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 05:20:24PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 26.07.2010 17:05, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated?
You want the old wiki back with no focus on readers, no maintainable structure, no help for contributors, no standards.
We are more than happy to help fixing the external links or fixing weak points in the new wiki.
Simply going back is no option, sorry.
Regarding that ... and having edited the lifetime page today, I have a question... What about the language wikis? de. and cs. linked back to the old english lifetime page for instance, and I think almost all of their IW links might be broken now. Are you planning to migrate the language wikis? Especially de. and cs. could be done in the Boosters team I guess. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hey, On 26.07.2010 17:26, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 05:20:24PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 26.07.2010 17:05, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated?
You want the old wiki back with no focus on readers, no maintainable structure, no help for contributors, no standards.
We are more than happy to help fixing the external links or fixing weak points in the new wiki.
Simply going back is no option, sorry.
Regarding that ... and having edited the lifetime page today, I have a question...
Shoot :)
What about the language wikis? de. and cs. linked back to the old english lifetime page for instance, and I think almost all of their IW links might be broken now.
Then we need to fix that in the language wikis, as if the page moved on en. That's a bread and butter wiki task :)
Are you planning to migrate the language wikis?
The German wiki people already is plan to migrate. They are going the same route as the English wiki (over a temporary instance dewiki.o.o) and are in the early planing stages.
Especially de. and cs. could be done in the Boosters team I guess.
The boosters team is not the wiki team :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-07-26 17:20:24 +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 26.07.2010 17:05, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated?
You want the old wiki back with no focus on readers, no maintainable structure, no help for contributors, no standards.
We are more than happy to help fixing the external links or fixing weak points in the new wiki.
i just want the old links to work [redirect] nothing more. it will send the user to the new page and they will edit there.
Simply going back is no option, sorry.
tbh this current wiki is a very huge step backwards in usability. you wanna know why i wrote that mail? because i had to tell 3 people within one minute that our current buildservice doc links are broken and had to give them the correct links instead. and no we cant fix all places where someone might link to us. and to make it worse ... you wanna print out all the suse books again with the wiki links fixed? I could understand your thinking when the wiki would make it utterly hard to maintain the backwards compatibility. but it is damn easy to do so. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Jul 26, 10 17:26:15 +0200, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
On 2010-07-26 17:20:24 +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 26.07.2010 17:05, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated?
You want the old wiki back with no focus on readers, no maintainable structure, no help for contributors, no standards.
No, we'd like to suggest an improvement while keeping all these good things. Wouldn't that be worth considering?
We are more than happy to help fixing the external links or fixing weak points in the new wiki.
This is beyond my scope.
i just want the old links to work [redirect] nothing more.
Me too. If the wiki team has any vote in this, I'd vote for having the redirects page. It is especially important to tell the world, that one link is outdated, and what the replacement is. Afaik, the redirects page exactly does this for us.
Simply going back is no option, sorry.
Correct. If possible, please add comments to the links in the redirects page, so that we know why they are there, and can phase them out over time. E.g. 'Extern entity "http://foo.bar.baz" references this URL'
tbh this current wiki is a very huge step backwards in usability.
Yes. An avoidable one, without reverting anything.
and to make it worse ... you wanna print out all the suse books again with the wiki links fixed?
:-) No. I know the costs. :-) cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 __/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "You are trying to use packages from project 'openSUSE:11.2'. Note that malicious packages can compromise your system." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 26 July 2010 13:08:34 Juergen Weigert wrote:
Correct. If possible, please add comments to the links in the redirects page, so that we know why they are there, and can phase them out over time. E.g. 'Extern entity "http://foo.bar.baz" references this URL'
I used Talk pages of redirects to put [[Category:Redirects to delete]] there, but as I just discovered category can be included in the redirect page itself without problems. Do we have to reference who is pointing to old link? It would be ideal to do that, but as you can see from small sample on: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Missing_pages that can be quite long list for each redirect, and still miss all our docs. BTW, just tested 'link:"<url>"' and it doesn't work well, just as simple "<url>" doesn't, so numbers of hits are not really reliable. When to delete? I would leave that decision to some scheduled review process, where links will be reviewed periodically and removed if possible. Many will be obsolete after some time and then they can be removed without pain. Other will never change. In general: The transition doesn't mean that we have to change and break all stuff at once, but to set direction. Web and search engines will find new articles, but they need time and that can be few years. Problem with sites as our wiki is that they use article title as URL, so it is not easy to change title without breaking all links, ditto automatic creation of redirects, but also request to writers to watch how to name their creations, to prevent need for renaming. The problem with redirects is that they blur separation on namespaces by topics and attempt to keep distro presentation clean from problem solutions. Searching for ATI, with redirect you get problem solution article in SDB. Not really wanted for first time visitors. Solution can be to create ATI article instead of redirect that will present ATI at opensuse and include links to SDB. On the other hand broken links from other sites (web and our infrastructure) can make a lot more damage to openSUSE image then not so clean separation of content. Check Distrowatch and Alexa, and give your interpretation of trends. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 27/07/10 06:51, Rajko M. wrote:
On Monday 26 July 2010 13:08:34 Juergen Weigert wrote:
When to delete? I would leave that decision to some scheduled review process, where links will be reviewed periodically and removed if possible. Many will be obsolete after some time and then they can be removed without pain. Other will never change. Can this be partly made by a bot?
E.G. a bot that deletes a redirect 1 week/1 month/1 year after the redirect is made unless the redirect-page or the corresponding discussion page have an additional remark.
In general: The transition doesn't mean that we have to change and break all stuff at once, but to set direction. Web and search engines will find new articles, but they need time and that can be few years.
Problem with sites as our wiki is that they use article title as URL, so it is not easy to change title without breaking all links, ditto automatic creation of redirects, but also request to writers to watch how to name their creations, to prevent need for renaming.
The problem with redirects is that they blur separation on namespaces by topics and attempt to keep distro presentation
according to your rules it is presentation of the openSUSE project (,too).
clean from problem solutions.
Searching for ATI, with redirect you get problem solution article in SDB. Not really wanted for first time visitors. Solution can be to create ATI article instead of redirect that will present ATI at opensuse and include links to SDB. No, now you get to the stump on http://wiki.opensuse.org/SDB:ATI. And
In my opinion this is more a problem of a search engine - this should tread redirects (or their titles) not in the same way as articles with content. that stump contains mainly links to other articles (and no problem solutions only one sentence on the ATI drivers - and that is even not right (what is with the open driver?). But even if ATI would lead to a "problem solution article" - in this case the problem would be the not-existing of that simple presenting article. As long as there is non special article in the main namespace you can make a redirect article in the main namespace to an other article in the main namespace like http://wiki.opensuse.org/Restricted_formats#ATI_graphics_drivers with #REDIRECT [[Restricted_formats#ATI_graphics_drivers]]. If an user gives the internal search the three words "Submit a Bug" why not lead him directly to the page that is fitting (http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Submitting_bug_reports)? And there a no clear rules or examples what an article in the main namespace should contain and what not: - should there be an extra article every word to troubleshooting or should a bit problem solution be 'allowed' if it is only a minor part of the hole article? And if something is not working well in openSUSE 11.3 - would it be a clever marketing to lure a possible new user in openSUSE 11.3 and leave him probably disappointed of openSUSE in general after he failed? What about just trying 11.2 first (in the example: use 11.2 untill all ATI drivers are there and working for 11.3)?
On the other hand broken links from other sites (web and our infrastructure) can make a lot more damage to openSUSE image then not so clean separation of content.
+1 If I use Google for external search I only use the wiki.o.o: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Awiki.opensuse.org+ATI The en.o.o search http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Aen.opensuse.org+ATI is still giving me dead links even on the first google page: http://en.opensuse.org/Talk:ATI_Driver_HOWTO http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=ATI/The_Hard_Way&redirect=no http://en.opensuse.org/Category:ATI http://en.opensuse.org/Talk:ATI_Radeon_Xpress
Check Distrowatch and Alexa, and give your interpretation of trends.
You are referring to: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/opensuse.org# and http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=suse / http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=06190 with the dead links to: - http://en.opensuse.org/Download - http://susewiki.org/ ... ? At least there are still redirects on - http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:SDB - http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Documentation&redirect=no Greetings pistazienfresser -- - openSUSE profile: https://users.opensuse.org/show/pistazienfresser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Jul 27, 10 10:35:22 +0200, pistazienfresser (see profile) wrote:
On 27/07/10 06:51, Rajko M. wrote:
On Monday 26 July 2010 13:08:34 Juergen Weigert wrote:
When to delete? I would leave that decision to some scheduled review process, where links will be reviewed periodically and removed if possible. Many will be obsolete after some time and then they can be removed without pain. Other will never change. Can this be partly made by a bot?
E.G. a bot that deletes a redirect 1 week/1 month/1 year after the redirect is made unless the redirect-page or the corresponding discussion page have an additional remark.
Hmm. Would be hard to place such remarks in a useful way. Can we access apache statistics, and see how frequently a redirect is actually being used? When the bot sees that the hit count is 'very low' for several months, it would do its duty. cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 __/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Why would it be stupid to assume that a file can continue to be accessed by the same name in the future?" Brion Vibber bwmo#15842#c12 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 10:35 AM, pistazienfresser (see profile) <pistazienfresser@gmx.de> wrote:
Check Distrowatch and Alexa, and give your interpretation of trends.
You are referring to: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/opensuse.org# and http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=suse / http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=06190 with the dead links to: - http://en.opensuse.org/Download - http://susewiki.org/ ... ? At least there are still redirects on - http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:SDB - http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Documentation&redirect=no
Hi there, On a sidenote: The Distrowatch links are now fixed (you just have to ask them). http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=suse Regards, R. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-07-26 23:51:23 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:51:23 -0500 From: "Rajko M." <rmatov101@charter.net> Subject: Re: [opensuse-wiki] Good/cool links never change To: opensuse-wiki@opensuse.org
On Monday 26 July 2010 13:08:34 Juergen Weigert wrote:
Correct. If possible, please add comments to the links in the redirects page, so that we know why they are there, and can phase them out over time. E.g. 'Extern entity "http://foo.bar.baz" references this URL'
I used Talk pages of redirects to put [[Category:Redirects to delete]] there, but as I just discovered category can be included in the redirect page itself without problems.
Do we have to reference who is pointing to old link? It would be ideal to do that, but as you can see from small sample on: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Missing_pages that can be quite long list for each redirect, and still miss all our docs. BTW, just tested 'link:"<url>"' and it doesn't work well, just as simple "<url>" doesn't, so numbers of hits are not really reliable.
When to delete? I would leave that decision to some scheduled review process, where links will be reviewed periodically and removed if possible. Many will be obsolete after some time and then they can be removed without pain. Other will never change.
you make things really complicated. no deleting redirects is not an option. you cant changed printed material ever. also you cant change all blog posts and stuff. or internal wikis of companies e.g. using the OBS. so the link has to stay forever. But where is the problem with redirect pages? people visit the old link. get redirected to the new url and get a nice note "redirected from <oldname>". user is happy as they find their information. If you really want we can change the message text to something like. "Redirected from <oldname>. If you got send to the old url from an external page please update the link to the new name"
In general: The transition doesn't mean that we have to change and break all stuff at once, but to set direction. Web and search engines will find new articles, but they need time and that can be few years.
Problem with sites as our wiki is that they use article title as URL, so it is not easy to change title without breaking all links, ditto automatic creation of redirects, but also request to writers to watch how to name their creations, to prevent need for renaming.
The problem with redirects is that they blur separation on namespaces by topics and attempt to keep distro presentation clean from problem solutions. Searching for ATI, with redirect you get problem solution article in SDB. Not really wanted for first time visitors. Solution can be to create ATI article instead of redirect that will present ATI at opensuse and include links to SDB.
the search can be limited to certain namespaces by default. That is a second complain about the wiki, which i hear regularly "the broken links wouldnt be too bad if the search would work atleast." which might be related to the fact that it only searches portal pages by default. including atleast the opensuse namespace in the default namespaces for search, would make that complain go away. but i left it out because i dont want to have 2 discussions at the same time.
On the other hand broken links from other sites (web and our infrastructure) can make a lot more damage to openSUSE image then not so clean separation of content. Check Distrowatch and Alexa, and give your interpretation of trends.
that is exactly my point. so can we please use the tools of the wiki to make users happy again? (and thats why we are here, arent we? darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 05:21:21 Marcus Rueckert wrote: ...
you make things really complicated.
If I would be decision maker then all would be a lot lesser complicated, but as I'm not, and trying to make everybody happy leads to complicated solutions.
no deleting redirects is not an option. you cant changed printed material ever. also you cant change all blog posts and stuff. or internal wikis of companies e.g. using the OBS. so the link has to stay forever.
For one, everything get obsolete one day. Another golden rule of the web is that published links have to be checked for validity once in a while. No one can expect that links are really forever, specially those in the old wiki that are all but designed for longevity.
But where is the problem with redirect pages? people visit the old link. get redirected to the new url and get a nice note "redirected from <oldname>".
user is happy as they find their information.
We can provide users with information in a more then one way and the most obvious is not always the best :) Henne showed with example of http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service how it should work, redirecting to current entry points for the topic, which is solution for the problem. It prevents dead link, and at the same time makes visitor aware that wiki has changed. For me redirects are not evil per se, but problem is that if they are applied as simple solution to missing links they have potential to ruin separation of content and that is one thing that must exist. We can temporarily or partially suspend it, to give people chance to get used to new ways, but it will not go away.
If you really want we can change the message text to something like.
"Redirected from <oldname>. If you got send to the old url from an external page please update the link to the new name"
That is an option too, but as any additional text on top of the article it can be there for a limited time, and then removed. We will have to dig deeper in complex templates that Wikipedia is using that actually can display different messages if some condition is met. ...
On the other hand broken links from other sites (web and our infrastructure) can make a lot more damage to openSUSE image then not so clean separation of content. Check Distrowatch and Alexa, and give your interpretation of trends.
that is exactly my point. so can we please use the tools of the wiki to make users happy again? (and thats why we are here, arent we?
Sure :) The only problem here is that no one felt itch to get involved before change, and even now it is kind of modest. Mostly it is in different forms "give us old wiki", the same one that didn't work well for anybody, and much lesser constructive ideas having new tools and design in mind, but it will better with time.
darix
-- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2010-07-30 07:11, Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 05:21:21 Marcus Rueckert wrote: ...
you make things really complicated.
If I would be decision maker then all would be a lot lesser complicated, but as I'm not, and trying to make everybody happy leads to complicated solutions.
no deleting redirects is not an option. you cant changed printed material ever. also you cant change all blog posts and stuff. or internal wikis of companies e.g. using the OBS. so the link has to stay forever.
For one, everything get obsolete one day.
Another golden rule of the web is that published links have to be checked for validity once in a while. No one can expect that links are really forever, specially those in the old wiki that are all but designed for longevity.
Yesterday night, a user reported in the forum a problem with zypper, which told to report somewhere with instructions somewhere-bis. The second link did not exist, had been removed with a link to the new one. The new one did not exist either. I had to search for a while before finding the real one for him. Now, choose: you either update the zypper stack with a security update, or you (plural you) fix the wiki link, at least till 11.1, 11.2, and 11.3 end of life. I'm sure there are more pieces of software in oS with links in the code to the wiki. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" GM (Elessar)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxSezYACgkQU92UU+smfQXLSgCfYurhfa3HZiaGyemngANCAibn 2jwAoI9tpWayIfk+gr/k9UOCINKiG8PS =7zlB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 30/07/10 09:11, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2010-07-30 07:11, Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 05:21:21 Marcus Rueckert wrote: ...
you make things really complicated.
If I would be decision maker then all would be a lot lesser complicated, but as I'm not, and trying to make everybody happy leads to complicated solutions.
no deleting redirects is not an option. you cant changed printed material ever. also you cant change all blog posts and stuff. or internal wikis of companies e.g. using the OBS. so the link has to stay forever.
For one, everything get obsolete one day.
Another golden rule of the web is that published links have to be checked for validity once in a while. No one can expect that links are really forever, specially those in the old wiki that are all but designed for longevity.
Yesterday night, a user reported in the forum a problem with zypper, which told to report somewhere with instructions somewhere-bis. The second link did not exist, had been removed with a link to the new one. The new one did not exist either. I had to search for a while before finding the real one for him.
Now, choose: you either update the zypper stack with a security update, or you (plural you) fix the wiki link, at least till 11.1, 11.2, and 11.3 end of life.
I'm sure there are more pieces of software in oS with links in the code to the wiki.
I agree that this seems to be general problem. As an other example: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2010-07/msg00384.html And a *working* link to the legal terms (including the terms that the hole copyright or at least the right to use and modify any written thing would not stay the contributor's) *'might'* be important... But to the example problem: If you do not to make a page with #REDIRECT [[name of the targeted article in the oS-wiki]] yourself - would you (Carlos E. R. or just an other with that knowledge of the meant links and discussion on the forums) contribute the dead link and the meant article so others might do it? Regards pistazienfresser -- - openSUSE profile: https://users.opensuse.org/show/pistazienfresser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2010-07-30 09:34, pistazienfresser (see profile) wrote:
On 30/07/10 09:11, Carlos E. R. wrote:
But to the example problem: If you do not to make a page with #REDIRECT [[name of the targeted article in the oS-wiki]] yourself - would you (Carlos E. R. or just an other with that knowledge of the meant links and discussion on the forums) contribute the dead link and the meant article so others might do it?
Me? No, I don't know how the current wiki works or should work. I can make things worse by not knowing. Ie, I know that it is broken, not how to repair it, even less if the experts are arguing and don't know nor explain how to solve it. I will only maintain my pages once they are migrated or told how to do it and where exactly to. I will not touch any other. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" GM (Elessar)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxSqFUACgkQU92UU+smfQWsLACeKFmVDNbH9KH31cB6skt5fDHN tr0AniTJljsbTJTvkZ9ojQ6Xf+h7JwrM =UfeJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-07-30 00:11:30 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
The only problem here is that no one felt itch to get involved before change, and even now it is kind of modest. Mostly it is in different forms "give us old wiki", the same one that didn't work well for anybody, and much lesser constructive ideas having new tools and design in mind, but it will better with time.
I had a long discussion with henne on irc a few months back, but then had to focus on other things. but now we run more and more into the annoyance I predicted back then. so we have to reiterate on the topic and get the issue solved. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Hey, On 26.07.2010 17:26, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
On 2010-07-26 17:20:24 +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 26.07.2010 17:05, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated?
You want the old wiki back with no focus on readers, no maintainable structure, no help for contributors, no standards.
We are more than happy to help fixing the external links or fixing weak points in the new wiki.
i just want the old links to work [redirect]
nothing more.
Yes and that makes the wiki unmaintainable for us. You can't have an overview over pages in the namespaces, the structure becomes foggy for the contributors, redirects get a method (for instance people create pages and add redirects for the red links on the pages instead of fixing the links etc.). You don't have to maintain it right? We have to and we tell you that we don't want that. Why is it so hard to accept that?
Simply going back is no option, sorry.
you wanna know why i wrote that mail? because i had to tell 3 people within one minute that our current buildservice doc links are broken and had to give them the correct links instead.
Then fix them? Nevermind, i just did. Took me a couple of minutes. See the buildservice list for a patch.
and no we cant fix all places where someone might link to us.
and to make it worse ... you wanna print out all the suse books again with the wiki links fixed?
I could understand your thinking when the wiki would make it utterly hard to maintain the backwards compatibility. but it is damn easy to do so.
Again: We don't doubt that its easy to create redirects. We don't doubt that broken links need fixing. We don't doubt that the search is shitty. We just don't want to implement your solution because it will make a huge part we worked hard for (making the wiki maintainable for us) moot. Can you please accept that? Thanks Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 26.07.2010 17:26, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
On 2010-07-26 17:20:24 +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 26.07.2010 17:05, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated? You want the old wiki back with no focus on readers, no maintainable structure, no help for contributors, no standards.
We are more than happy to help fixing the external links or fixing weak points in the new wiki. i just want the old links to work [redirect]
nothing more.
Yes and that makes the wiki unmaintainable for us. You can't have an overview over pages in the namespaces, the structure becomes foggy for the contributors, redirects get a method (for instance people create pages and add redirects for the red links on the pages instead of fixing the links etc.). You don't have to maintain it right? We have to and we tell you that we don't want that. Why is it so hard to accept that?
Simply going back is no option, sorry. you wanna know why i wrote that mail? because i had to tell 3 people within one minute that our current buildservice doc links are broken and had to give them the correct links instead.
Then fix them? Nevermind, i just did. Took me a couple of minutes. See the buildservice list for a patch.
and no we cant fix all places where someone might link to us.
and to make it worse ... you wanna print out all the suse books again with the wiki links fixed?
I could understand your thinking when the wiki would make it utterly hard to maintain the backwards compatibility. but it is damn easy to do so.
Again: We don't doubt that its easy to create redirects. We don't doubt that broken links need fixing. We don't doubt that the search is shitty. We just don't want to implement your solution because it will make a huge part we worked hard for (making the wiki maintainable for us) moot.
i'm really happy you went to all this effort to make it easy to maintain... to make it easy for you to maintain.. to make your Contribution easier.. too bad no one seemed to consider (or wants to try and relieve now) the extra work caused **everyone** else to make it easier for you.
Can you please accept that? Thanks
no, because i have dozens and dozens of links to information that i used to find in seconds....and, with the (thank you) completely useless search i can't find stuff....just not smart enough to wade through all the broken links, "this page does not exist" blah blah blah.. here is a reference to ONE list i used to use many times daily: http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/opensuse-wiki-discussions/44299... DenverD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 06:23:33 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Then fix them? Nevermind, i just did. Took me a couple of minutes. See the buildservice list for a patch.
http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service is good idea. We can have redirects to entry point for each topic instead to each page. For me that satisfies request that links don't disappear, people get path to information and it doesn't spoil new structure. Warning can be posted for some time on portal pages. Something like tiny template that can be changed or blanked out at will: "This is a new openSUSE wiki. If you are here following link to some other page you are redirected to new entry point for <topic>, where you can find links to new location of articles that you are looking for." Ideas? If other have no objections we can start working on that. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-07-30 00:12:53 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 06:23:33 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Then fix them? Nevermind, i just did. Took me a couple of minutes. See the buildservice list for a patch.
http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service is good idea.
We can have redirects to entry point for each topic instead to each page.
For me that satisfies request that links don't disappear, people get path to information and it doesn't spoil new structure. Warning can be posted for some time on portal pages. Something like tiny template that can be changed or blanked out at will:
"This is a new openSUSE wiki. If you are here following link to some other page you are redirected to new entry point for <topic>, where you can find links to new location of articles that you are looking for."
Ideas?
If other have no objections we can start working on that.
that doesnt help for subpackages and stuff. you really have to do redirects for every old name just because http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service works doesnt mean http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Concepts/Maintenance will work. while it could be a nice redirect aswell. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:49, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
We can have redirects to entry point for each topic instead to each page.
For me that satisfies request that links don't disappear, people get path to information and it doesn't spoil new structure. Warning can be posted for some time on portal pages. Something like tiny template that can be changed or blanked out at will:
"This is a new openSUSE wiki. If you are here following link to some other page you are redirected to new entry point for <topic>, where you can find links to new location of articles that you are looking for."
Ideas?
If other have no objections we can start working on that.
that doesnt help for subpackages and stuff. you really have to do redirects for every old name
just because http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service works doesnt mean http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Concepts/Maintenance will work. while it could be a nice redirect aswell.
You know... I've been reading this thread in amazement... seriously guys... breaking the old pages in the move to a new wiki is a really bad idea. We (openSUSE) are not the first community to roll out a completely new Wiki and then move pages from old to new. A _real_ good example of how it should be done. is... WikiMedia itself - the documentation for MediaWiki. If you land on an old page that has been moved, it says... this page has been moved and provides a link to the new page. Easy... instead we now have LOADS of broken and missing wiki pages. Saying too bad links break and you should validate your links if you're linking to wiki content makes me think you've lost touch with the community if you think that's the right path to take. In the quest to make things easier for the maintainers we're alienating the community that we're trying to serve. Just to repeat.. look at the WikiMeida site and how it was transitioned from old to new... every moved page leaves behind a ghost page with a statement the page has been moved with a clickable link to the new page. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 7/26/2010 11:20 AM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 26.07.2010 17:05, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated?
You want the old wiki back with no focus on readers, no maintainable structure, no help for contributors, no standards.
We are more than happy to help fixing the external links or fixing weak points in the new wiki.
Haha did you really say fixing external links? How are you going to fix all the saved emails and newsgroup posts and zillion random web forum posts? Links appear everywhere. I have links in notes on my phone. I have links in printed documentation. We should all know by now that it's a fact of life that links break. But that also means we should all know by now how bad it is to break links to reference material. And it may seem counterintuitive but the older the material the worse it is to break it since new alternative material on that subject is no longer being created elsewhere. -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Le 26/07/2010 17:20, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :
Hey,
On 26.07.2010 17:05, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated?
You want the old wiki back with no focus on readers, no maintainable structure, no help for contributors, no standards.
We are more than happy to help fixing the external links or fixing weak points in the new wiki.
Simply going back is no option, sorry.
why do you always answer like this? the OP don't ask to keep the old wiki but to redirect old links to the new wiki. look like the best thing we can do to promote the new one. I was teached in the old time "never break a link". If there is no real identical new page, simply redirect to the category page or to the internal search. All the users having to go transparently to the new wiki don't forget *all* the pages of the *non english* wikis have the same name as the old en wiki to allow switching. What about these? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:20:24 +0200 Henne Vogelsang wrote: Hi,
On 26.07.2010 17:05, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
can we please add a policy that every migrated page has to have the redirect page for its old name? And on top of that add the redirects for all pages that are already migrated?
You want the old wiki back with no focus on readers, no maintainable structure, no help for contributors, no standards.
We are more than happy to help fixing the external links or fixing weak points in the new wiki.
Simply going back is no option, sorry.
I do not think being dogmatic helps. I agree with both of you - the fact that almost all external links to the openSUSE project are dead by now really hurts the project. On the other hand cluttering up the new wiki with 1000+ redirect pages is no option, too, because it will bring back chaos to the new wiki. But there are other ways to cope with the situation, I suggest the following simple steps: * Set up _Apache redirects_ (301) for the top 500 pages of the old wiki * Adjust the "noarticle" text to something more helpful (http://en.opensuse.org/MediaWiki:Noarticletext). The current text is ---------- There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page. ----------- Replace it with something like: ----------- The openSUSE wiki has been completely revamped and we are currently in the process of migrating articles from the old wiki instance to the new one. Not all articles will be moved to the same location as in the old wiki instance, so please '''[[Special:Search/all:{{PAGENAME}}|search for this article]]'''. If you cannot find what you are looking for, you may still find it in the old wiki instance at http://old-en.opensuse.org/{{urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}. Please help us moving this page to this new wiki instance if it hasn't been migrated, yet. Last, you may, of course, also [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}} edit this page]. ---------- -- Regards Frank Frank Sundermeyer, Technical Writer, Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.opensuse.org/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 7/27/2010 9:23 AM, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:20:24 +0200 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
* Adjust the "noarticle" text to something more helpful (http://en.opensuse.org/MediaWiki:Noarticletext). The current text is
---------- There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page. -----------
Replace it with something like:
-----------
The openSUSE wiki has been completely revamped and we are currently in the process of migrating articles from the old wiki instance to the new one. Not all articles will be moved to the same location as in the old wiki instance, so please '''[[Special:Search/all:{{PAGENAME}}|search for this article]]'''.
If you cannot find what you are looking for, you may still find it in the old wiki instance at http://old-en.opensuse.org/{{urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}. Please help us moving this page to this new wiki instance if it hasn't been migrated, yet.
Last, you may, of course, also [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}} edit this page].
----------
I like this idea. This would definitely help people understand things are 'missing' for now and give them alternatives. -Matt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 27/07/10 15:30, Matt Hayes wrote:
On 7/27/2010 9:23 AM, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:20:24 +0200 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
* Adjust the "noarticle" text to something more helpful (http://en.opensuse.org/MediaWiki:Noarticletext). The current text is
---------- There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page. -----------
Replace it with something like:
-----------
The openSUSE wiki has been completely revamped and we are currently in the process of migrating articles from the old wiki instance to the new one. Not all articles will be moved to the same location as in the old wiki instance, so please '''[[Special:Search/all:{{PAGENAME}}|search for this article]]'''.
If you cannot find what you are looking for, you may still find it in the old wiki instance at http://old-en.opensuse.org/{{urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}. Please help us moving this page to this new wiki instance if it hasn't been migrated, yet.
Last, you may, of course, also [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}} edit this page].
----------
I like this idea. This would definitely help people understand things are 'missing' for now and give them alternatives.
-Matt It is better than the status now.
But I do still see no reason why the new wiki should hide the corresponding/copied-and-pasted 'new' article from someone that enters the exact URL of the old place of that article in her/his browser. If the user goes to http://en.opensuse.org/Bug_Reporting_FAQ why should someone presume that the user does *not* want to see http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Bug_reporting_FAQ ? I do not see any prove or at least any indication why giving structure has to go hand in hand with such paternalism. If a user likes new wiki concept better than the old - maybe he will use the internal search or go to linked pages or via the new navigation features form that page to other pages in the wiki? But if the user just does not get the page he wanted at the fist place and also cannot find it with the internal search - maybe he will just be annoyed and leave the wiki? Greetings pistazienfresser -- - openSUSE profile: https://users.opensuse.org/show/pistazienfresser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-07-27 15:23:32 +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
On the other hand cluttering up the new wiki with 1000+ redirect pages is no option, too, because it will bring back chaos to the new wiki.
using redirect pages is much better than cluttering 1000 rewrite rules into apache. because we cant edit the later easily. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:16:48 +0200 Marcus Rueckert wrote: Hi,
On 2010-07-27 15:23:32 +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
On the other hand cluttering up the new wiki with 1000+ redirect pages is no option, too, because it will bring back chaos to the new wiki.
using redirect pages is much better than cluttering 1000 rewrite rules into apache. because we cant edit the later easily.
to create the apache redirects we simply need a script that gets a list of all pagenames from the category "Transfered Articles" in old-en, fetches the MediaWiki sources and grabs {{TransferNote|<TITLE>}} from each source to generate a Redirection list. Run that script by cron and let it output a file that is included by the apache vhost config and you have a zero maintenance solution. -- Regards Frank Frank Sundermeyer, Technical Writer, Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.opensuse.org/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 2010-07-27 16:45:55 +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
to create the apache redirects we simply need a script that gets a list of all pagenames from the category "Transfered Articles" in old-en, fetches the MediaWiki sources and grabs {{TransferNote|<TITLE>}} from each source to generate a Redirection list.
Run that script by cron and let it output a file that is included by the apache vhost config and you have a zero maintenance solution.
until old-en is switched off. and then? you know that you need to be logged in to get the source? darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:57:31 +0200 Marcus Rueckert wrote: Hi,
On 2010-07-27 16:45:55 +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
to create the apache redirects we simply need a script that gets a list of all pagenames from the category "Transfered Articles" in old-en, fetches the MediaWiki sources and grabs {{TransferNote|<TITLE>}} from each source to generate a Redirection list.
Run that script by cron and let it output a file that is included by the apache vhost config and you have a zero maintenance solution.
until old-en is switched off. and then?
then we have a final output of the script that can be used without having to be updated.
you know that you need to be logged in to get the source?
no, just the opposite - if you are _not_ logged in you get the wiki source when browsing to the edit link. -- Regards Frank Frank Sundermeyer, Technical Writer, Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0, Fax: +49-911-7417755; http://www.opensuse.org/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Reality is always controlled by the people who are most insane" Dogbert -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On 27/07/10 16:57, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
until old-en is switched off. and then?
Old-en is going to be switched of? <ironic> Copy-and-past of articles without any history or remark of the original authors is not enough - let' s just ignore all the fussy licenses and other rules of Open Source and Open Content completely! </ironic> See: Thread: Upload/move a wiki artikel to wiki.opensuse.org (GFDL) http://forums.opensuse.org/english/community/opensuse-wiki-discussions/44053... Kind regards pistazienfresser -- - openSUSE profile: https://users.opensuse.org/show/pistazienfresser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
Sorry, I haven't been following the thread very closely, but this caught my attention. The Apache config solution described below isn't viable with the current setup. The reason for this is because we aren't using Apache Virtual Hosts in the standard way. Instead, we are using mass virtual hosting (http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/vhosts/mass.html), which has worked to this point because all the wikis have been using the same Apache settings. To do something like what is described below would break that model, which would be a very big pain in the neck. In addition, it wouldn't be quite zero maintenance, as it would require a reload/restart of both Apache servers to take effect. An alternative solution is to use .htaccess for the rewrites, which opens its own can of worms. -Matt
Frank Sundermeyer <fs@suse.de> 7/27/2010 8:45 AM >>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:16:48 +0200 Marcus Rueckert wrote:
Hi,
On 2010-07-27 15:23:32 +0200, Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
On the other hand cluttering up the new wiki with 1000+ redirect pages is no option, too, because it will bring back chaos to the new wiki.
using redirect pages is much better than cluttering 1000 rewrite rules into apache. because we cant edit the later easily.
to create the apache redirects we simply need a script that gets a list of all pagenames from the category "Transfered Articles" in old-en, fetches the MediaWiki sources and grabs {{TransferNote|<TITLE>}} from each source to generate a Redirection list.
Run that script by cron and let it output a file that is included by the apache vhost config and you have a zero maintenance solution.
Frank, On Tuesday 27 July 2010 15:23:32 Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
* Adjust the "noarticle" text to something more helpful (http://en.opensuse.org/MediaWiki:Noarticletext). The current text is
---------- There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page. -----------
Replace it with something like:
-----------
The openSUSE wiki has been completely revamped and we are currently in the process of migrating articles from the old wiki instance to the new one. Not all articles will be moved to the same location as in the old wiki instance, so please '''[[Special:Search/all:{{PAGENAME}}|search for this article]]'''.
If you cannot find what you are looking for, you may still find it in the old wiki instance at http://old-en.opensuse.org/{{urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}. Please help us moving this page to this new wiki instance if it hasn't been migrated, yet.
Last, you may, of course, also [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}} edit this page].
----------
this is a great suggestion, I think that will help many people for now, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Frank,
On Tuesday 27 July 2010 15:23:32 Frank Sundermeyer wrote:
* Adjust the "noarticle" text to something more helpful (http://en.opensuse.org/MediaWiki:Noarticletext). The current text is
---------- There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, search the related logs, or edit this page. -----------
Replace it with something like:
-----------
The openSUSE wiki has been completely revamped and we are currently in the process of migrating articles from the old wiki instance to the new one. Not all articles will be moved to the same location as in the old wiki instance, so please '''[[Special:Search/all:{{PAGENAME}}|search for this article]]'''.
If you cannot find what you are looking for, you may still find it in the old wiki instance at http://old-en.opensuse.org/{{urlencode:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}. Please help us moving this page to this new wiki instance if it hasn't been migrated, yet.
Last, you may, of course, also [{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|action=edit}} edit this page].
----------
this is a great suggestion, I think that will help many people for now,
Andreas Thanks for the suggestion and thanks to the one who made it real!
On 28/07/10 08:02, Andreas Jaeger wrote: pistazienfresser -- - openSUSE profile: https://users.opensuse.org/show/pistazienfresser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 28 July 2010 09:13:46 pistazienfresser (see profile) wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion and thanks to the one who made it real! pistazienfresser
Yeah, somebody put it in place - GREAT! Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
participants (16)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
Brian K. White -
C -
Carlos E. R. -
DenverD -
Frank Sundermeyer -
Henne Vogelsang -
jdd -
Juergen Weigert -
Marcus Meissner -
Marcus Rueckert -
Matt Hayes -
Matthew Ehle -
pistazienfresser (see profile) -
Rajko M. -
Rémy Marquis