Hi, we talked in the last meeting about the language lists. This requires a new layout (or rather _a_ layout because today we dont have guidelines about it) of the lists. We thought about it and came up with the following: We need to distinguish between 3 different variables in the mailinglists names: 1. project 2. topic 3. language This leads to the the following layout. For instance if you want to create mailinglists for the project <project> <project>@domain.tld -------------------- - General mailinglist about the project <project> in <default language> <project>-<language>@domain.tld ------------------------------- - General mailinglist about the project <project> in <language> <project>-announce@domain.tld ----------------------------- - Announce/News mailinglist for project <project> in <default language> <project>-announce-<language>@domain.tld ---------------------------------------- - Announce/News mailinglist for project in <language> <project>-users@domain.tld -------------------------- - Support mailinglist for the project <project> in <default language> <project>-users-<language>@domain.tld ------------------------------------- - Support mailinglist about the project <project> in <language> <project>-<topic>@domain.tld ---------------------------- - Mailinglist about the topic <topic> in the project <project> in <default language> <project>-<topic>-<language>@domain.tld --------------------------------------- - Mailinglist about the topic <topic> in the project <project> in <language> This would for instance mean for the openSUSE project: opensuse@opensuse.org - General in english opensuse-de@opensuse.org - Generl in german opensuse-announce@opensuse.org - Announce in english opensuse-announce@opensuse.org - Announce in german opensuse-users@opensuse.org - Support in english opensuse-users-de@opensuse.org - Support in german opensuse-factory@opensuse.org - Factory in english opensuse-factory-de@opensuse.org - Factory in german This layout scales pretty good. We need the <project> prefix because in the long run we are going to migrate everything that is on lists.suse.com to lists.opensuse.org. And we have other projects there, for instance taskjuggler or packet-writing. Mailinglists will get setup on request. Im not going to setup mailinglists with one or less subscribers. I need to think of an request mechanism but it will probably be a mail address. There is no hard requirement for a default language list but its very desirable. So for instance there shouldnt be a opensuse-foo-de@opensuse.org without a list opensuse-foo@opensuse.org But it might be that we cant avoid that in all cases. Comments? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Core Services "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire)
Am Freitag, 10. Februar 2006 13:43 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
Hi,
we talked in the last meeting about the language lists. This requires a new layout (or rather _a_ layout because today we dont have guidelines about it) of the lists. We thought about it and came up with the following:
We need to distinguish between 3 different variables in the mailinglists names:
1. project 2. topic 3. language
<snip>
This would for instance mean for the openSUSE project:
opensuse@opensuse.org - General in english opensuse-de@opensuse.org - Generl in german opensuse-announce@opensuse.org - Announce in english opensuse-announce@opensuse.org - Announce in german
^^ I think that should be opensuse-announce-de@opensuse.org?
opensuse-users@opensuse.org - Support in english opensuse-users-de@opensuse.org - Support in german opensuse-factory@opensuse.org - Factory in english opensuse-factory-de@opensuse.org - Factory in german
This layout scales pretty good. We need the <project> prefix because in the long run we are going to migrate everything that is on lists.suse.com to lists.opensuse.org. And we have other projects there, for instance taskjuggler or packet-writing.
Sounds like a good idea then.
Mailinglists will get setup on request. Im not going to setup mailinglists with one or less subscribers. I need to think of an request mechanism but it will probably be a mail address.
Also makes sense, but be sure to have the information on the wiki that additional language lists can be set up.
There is no hard requirement for a default language list but its very desirable. So for instance there shouldnt be a
opensuse-foo-de@opensuse.org
without a list
opensuse-foo@opensuse.org
But it might be that we cant avoid that in all cases.
Comments?
Henne
Seems fine, only things I thought about were: 1) Why doen't we have a language marker for the default? That would make things more consistent, and if somebody sees a list full of DE, CN, FR mailing lists and starts searching for EN they are going to be out of luck - although most people probably aren't that dumb. Also stops any question of English elitism, unless you are proposing the default groups are in German, or Flemish (hi houghi ;-P). 2) This would also allow for <language>-<project>-<topic>@domain.tld, this way all the groups for a language could be grouped together when listed. This would, IMHO make a little more sense, somebody who is subscribing to French groups can quickly see by the prefix what language they are, not have to search for every project/topic and then find the French version thereof... This would also keep it semi-consistent with usenet naming, where language/country specific groups are listed with that languages/country's prefix (E.g. es.comp.misc, es.comp.programas etc.). 2a) Having the language as a prefix should make the list more readable, having a 2 digit code, followed by a project, followed by a topic means only the domain name part looks ragedy, the begginning of the rest of the items is nicely formatted: de.opensuse@opensuse.org de.opensuse.annouce@opensuse.org de.opensuse.factory@opensuse.org de.opensuse.users@opensuse.org de.taskjuggler@opensuse.org de.taskjuggler.announce@opensuse.org de.taskjuggler.users@opensuse.org en.opensuse@opensuse.org en.opensuse.announce@opensuse.org en.opensuse.factory@opensuse.org en.opensuse.users@opensuse.org en.taskjuggler@opensuse.org ... To me that is easier on the eye and much quicker to pick up the relevant language. This all depends of course on how the lists will be grouped... If they are listed under language, then by project and topic under the language heading, the second suggestion is irrelevant; but if they are going to be listed by project, by topic by language, I'd go for making the language more prominent and having it at the start. Just my 2c. Dave
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 02:25:59PM +0100, David Wright wrote:
1) Why doen't we have a language marker for the default? That would make things more consistent, and if somebody sees a list full of DE, CN, FR mailing lists and starts searching for EN they are going to be out of luck - although most people probably aren't that dumb. Also stops any question of English elitism, unless you are proposing the default groups are in German, or Flemish (hi houghi ;-P).
Yes, make a EN as well. Oh and Flemish is not a language, it is a group of dialects. If we get Flemish, we should get also Plat-Duutsch, Beirisch and Östereichish. (The last two are the same, but don't tell them that, because the inhabitants think they are not, because they are better then the other. :)
2a) Having the language as a prefix should make the list more readable, having a 2 digit code, followed by a project, followed by a topic means only the domain name part looks ragedy, the begginning of the rest of the items is nicely formatted:
Yes. Full ACK. Also much better once they are on gmane. houghi -- There was a young girl from Hong Kong Whose cervical cap was a gong. She said with a yell, As a shot rang her bell, "I'll give you a ding for a dong!"
Am Freitag, 10. Februar 2006 17:47 schrieb houghi:
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 02:25:59PM +0100, David Wright wrote:
1) Why doen't we have a language marker for the default? That would make things more consistent, and if somebody sees a list full of DE, CN, FR mailing lists and starts searching for EN they are going to be out of luck - although most people probably aren't that dumb. Also stops any question of English elitism, unless you are proposing the default groups are in German, or Flemish (hi houghi ;-P).
Yes, make a EN as well. Oh and Flemish is not a language, it is a group of dialects. If we get Flemish, we should get also Plat-Duutsch, Beirisch and Östereichish. (The last two are the same, but don't tell them that, because the inhabitants think they are not, because they are better then the other. :)
I'm English, living in Bayern and have visited Östereich and they are definitely not the same :-D Mind you I get lost when the locals talk to me here, I can speak German, but Bayerisch gets me totally lost most of the time :-P <snip> Dave
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 06:47:49PM +0100, David Wright wrote:
I'm English, living in Bayern and have visited Östereich and they are definitely not the same :-D Mind you I get lost when the locals talk to me here, I can speak German, but Bayerisch gets me totally lost most of the time :-P
It was fun when I was the translator between Bavarians and people from Sleswig-Holstein. Neither could understand the other. LOL. OK. Back to serious mode now. houghi -- The only really decent thing to do behind a person's back is pat it.
Am Fri, 10. February 2006 18:47 schrieb David Wright:
Am Freitag, 10. Februar 2006 17:47 schrieb houghi:
On Fri, Feb 10, 2006 at 02:25:59PM +0100, David Wright wrote:
1) Why doen't we have a language marker for the default? That would make things more consistent, and if somebody sees a list full of DE, CN, FR mailing lists and starts searching for EN they are going to be out of luck - although most people probably aren't that dumb. Also stops any question of English elitism, unless you are proposing the default groups are in German, or Flemish (hi houghi ;-P).
Yes, make a EN as well. Oh and Flemish is not a language, it is a group of dialects. If we get Flemish, we should get also Plat-Duutsch, Beirisch and Östereichish. (The last two are the same, but don't tell them that, because the inhabitants think they are not, because they are better then the other. :)
I'm English, living in Bayern and have visited Östereich and they are definitely not the same :-D Mind you I get lost when the locals talk to me here, I can speak German, but Bayerisch gets me totally lost most of the time :-P
I will not comment or even rate the right to exist for (sub)laguage lists. This is a minefield which may become as big as religion or politics. So therefore I also tried to give this posting a more humorous note ;-)) So, from a technical point of view. - setting up a mailing list is done in seconds - administrating a low-low traffic list (even for a language which might be spoken only by 2 people on the world) will be no work (under the aspect of human recources) - Even the little bit of more reccources needed due to more postings of the same toppic / field in different languages will not be an argument against (sub)language lists From a practical point of view - if there is a new list, lets say in Klingon, which is frequently used by only a very few people (Klingons may be) and has therefore only very few postings will most likely not attract more users to participate. So there is a big chance that such a list will dissapear over a longer period of time. This because of the natural mortality rate (mortality under the aspect of people seem to be dead if not posting) is lower than the fertility rate (under the aspect of fertility rate seen as new posters are like a new born member of the opensuse community). - But not setting up a (sub)language list which is asked for (may be from a certain number uf users, to have some kind of barrier not having the need for setting up a list for every person of the world) may be a lost opportunity. Because if _just_this_ new list will attract a lot of people it is definetly a win for opensuse. and it would be sad if we hadn't done this. Or, comming back to my example above, we would have missed to win the klingon empire to join the opensuse universe and participate spreading our Prime Directive (which is Free Software and opensuse for the collective good). Not talking of the benefit to win some klingons as brothers in arms. - Even if it has no practical use for the opensuse project itself it has a social use in the meaning of beeing an encouragement offered by opensuse to give people of a certain language the chance to socialise and thereby it helps keeping their culture which mostoften is based in their language alive. So speaking of klingon again we might be able to give a helping hand to keep the klingon empire and it's culture alive. regards, Thomas
On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 02:11:58AM +0100, email.listen@googlemail.com wrote:
From a practical point of view - if there is a new list, lets say in Klingon, which is frequently used by only a very few people (Klingons may be) and has therefore only very few postings will most likely not attract more users to participate. So there is a big chance that such a list will dissapear over a longer period of time. This because of the natural mortality rate (mortality under the aspect of people seem to be dead if not posting) is lower than the fertility rate (under the aspect of fertility rate seen as new posters are like a new born member of the opensuse community).
Perhaps we could decide that after a period of non-posting, the list might be deleted. Say 3 months of non-posting and the list is removed. 3 months of non-posting could mean that the group is actualy braindead.
- Even if it has no practical use for the opensuse project itself it has a social use in the meaning of beeing an encouragement offered by opensuse to give people of a certain language the chance to socialise and thereby it helps keeping their culture which mostoften is based in their language alive. So speaking of klingon again we might be able to give a helping hand to keep the klingon empire and it's culture alive.
I would say we first handle world-domination and then see what we can do for languages. Untill then , I believe we should keep a bit low profile and concentrate on SUSE and openSUSE. houghi -- "I don't like spinach, and I'm glad I don't, because if I liked it I'd eat it, and I just hate it." -- Clarence Darrow
houghi wrote:
Perhaps we could decide that after a period of non-posting, the list might be deleted. Say 3 months of non-posting and the list is removed. 3 months of non-posting could mean that the group is actualy braindead.
you can simply leave it... I have such a nearly stopped suse list. It was from the start intended to be very low traffic and it is. however sometimes there is a question... and curiously also an answer :-) I just verify I have yet 27 subscribers, and 4 messages a year, I guess :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Hi, On Friday, February 10, 2006 at 14:25:59, David Wright wrote:
Am Freitag, 10. Februar 2006 13:43 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
opensuse-announce@opensuse.org - Announce in german
^^ I think that should be opensuse-announce-de@opensuse.org?
Of course.
Mailinglists will get setup on request. Im not going to setup mailinglists with one or less subscribers. I need to think of an request mechanism but it will probably be a mail address.
Also makes sense, but be sure to have the information on the wiki that additional language lists can be set up.
Yes. This should go to the corresponding Communicate page of the language wiki.
Comments?
Seems fine, only things I thought about were:
1) Why doen't we have a language marker for the default? That would make things more consistent, and if somebody sees a list full of DE, CN, FR mailing lists and starts searching for EN they are going to be out of luck - although most people probably aren't that dumb. Also stops any question of English elitism, unless you are proposing the default groups are in German, or Flemish (hi houghi ;-P).
That would make things easier for a small percentage of people and harder for most.
2) This would also allow for <language>-<project>-<topic>@domain.tld, this way all the groups for a language could be grouped together when listed.
No need to. LanguageX mailinglists should not show up in the languageY Communicate page. So they will be gouped by language anyway without representing that in the name.
would, IMHO make a little more sense, somebody who is subscribing to French groups can quickly see by the prefix what language they are, not have to search for every project/topic and then find the French version thereof... This would also keep it semi-consistent with usenet naming, where language/country specific groups are listed with that languages/country's prefix (E.g. es.comp.misc, es.comp.programas etc.).
And go totally contrary to how mailinglists are usually set up. Im against it. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway
Am Freitag, 10. Februar 2006 18:19 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
Hi,
On Friday, February 10, 2006 at 14:25:59, David Wright wrote:
Am Freitag, 10. Februar 2006 13:43 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
opensuse-announce@opensuse.org - Announce in german
^^ I think that should be opensuse-announce-de@opensuse.org?
Of course.
Mailinglists will get setup on request. Im not going to setup mailinglists with one or less subscribers. I need to think of an request mechanism but it will probably be a mail address.
Also makes sense, but be sure to have the information on the wiki that additional language lists can be set up.
Yes. This should go to the corresponding Communicate page of the language wiki.
Comments?
Seems fine, only things I thought about were:
1) Why doen't we have a language marker for the default? That would make things more consistent, and if somebody sees a list full of DE, CN, FR mailing lists and starts searching for EN they are going to be out of luck - although most people probably aren't that dumb. Also stops any question of English elitism, unless you are proposing the default groups are in German, or Flemish (hi houghi ;-P).
That would make things easier for a small percentage of people and harder for most.
2) This would also allow for <language>-<project>-<topic>@domain.tld, this way all the groups for a language could be grouped together when listed.
No need to. LanguageX mailinglists should not show up in the languageY Communicate page. So they will be gouped by language anyway without representing that in the name.
I had wondered about that, but wouldn't listing the alternatives at least on the default/English pages be useful?
would, IMHO make a little more sense, somebody who is subscribing to French groups can quickly see by the prefix what language they are, not have to search for every project/topic and then find the French version thereof... This would also keep it semi-consistent with usenet naming, where language/country specific groups are listed with that languages/country's prefix (E.g. es.comp.misc, es.comp.programas etc.).
And go totally contrary to how mailinglists are usually set up. Im against it.
Henne
Fine, apart from the SUSE lists I've never really done mailing lists, I've always stuck with newsgroups, forums or internal company SIG folders in Exchange, Notes etc. If using the language code as a suffix is already the accepted standard for mailing lists, then so it be. It was just from an ease of reading when multiple languages for groups were listed on the same page... Dave
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
We need to distinguish between 3 different variables in the mailinglists names:
1. project 2. topic 3. language
good. examples are nice also :-)
Mailinglists will get setup on request. Im not going to setup mailinglists with one or less subscribers. I need to think of an request mechanism but it will probably be a mail address.
a wiki page in the <language> wiki asking for that (linked in the "communicate page) - I will keep care of that for fr
There is no hard requirement for a default language list but its very desirable. So for instance there shouldnt be a
opensuse-foo-de@opensuse.org
without a list
opensuse-foo@opensuse.org
But it might be that we cant avoid that in all cases.
Comments?
* default. not necessary. some subject may arise that are significant for a langage and not for another (what could be the use of a default "grammar" list?) we already have a default list (this one :-) * at first, _one_ localized list should be good, more only if necessary (the less is the better) thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
jdd wrote:
a wiki page in the <language> wiki asking for that (linked in the "communicate page) - I will keep care of that for fr
done http://fr.opensuse.org/Pour_une_liste_de_discussion_en_français as you may see, I add some words of definition of what is a maling list and what will be the scope of our mailing list. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
On 2/10/06, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@suse.de> wrote:
Comments? No problems with the proposed naming.
Here are my thoughts about the list of default mailing lists. Should we line up the mailing lists with the teams, to help collaboration and contact? ie each team page could list a mailing list. The teams are currently: ARCH Team Build Service Team BNC Screening Team bnc-team-screening@forge.provo.novell.com Core Team Documentation Team KDE Team opensuse-kde@opensuse.org (currently suse-kde@suse.com) Mobile Devices Team opensuse-mobile@opensuse.org (new?) POWER Team opensuse-ppc@opensuse.org (currently suse-ppc@suse.com) Security Team opensuse-security@opensuse.org (currently suse-security@suse.com) Translation Team opensuse-translations@opensuse.org (new) Wiki Team opensuse-wiki@opensuse.org I am sure that there are other current lists that I don't know about that could be brought into line with the teams. It may not be suitable for all teams, but it made sense to me....:-)
On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 08:59:20AM +1100, Peter Flodin wrote:
On 2/10/06, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@suse.de> wrote:
Comments? No problems with the proposed naming.
Here are my thoughts about the list of default mailing lists.
Should we line up the mailing lists with the teams, to help collaboration and contact? ie each team page could list a mailing list.
With that many lists people might want to follow (or at least that I want to follow) I sure hope that the gmane thing is working soon. :-) If somebody has a page on how I can now include this on my leafnode machine, I am very happy to hear it. houghi -- How wonderful opera would be if there were no singers.
On 02/11/2006 04:33 AM houghi wrote:
With that many lists people might want to follow (or at least that I want to follow) I sure hope that the gmane thing is working soon. :-)
Late-but-very-FULL-ACK OJ -- Working with Unix is like wrestling a worthy opponent. Working with windows is like attacking a small whining child who is carrying a .38.
At 11:43 PM 10/02/2006, you wrote:
Hi,
we talked in the last meeting about the language lists. This requires a new layout (or rather _a_ layout because today we dont have guidelines about it) of the lists. We thought about it and came up with the following:
We need to distinguish between 3 different variables in the mailinglists names:
1. project 2. topic 3. language
This leads to the the following layout. For instance if you want to create mailinglists for the project <project>
<project>@domain.tld -------------------- - General mailinglist about the project <project> in <default language>
<project>-<language>@domain.tld ------------------------------- - General mailinglist about the project <project> in <language>
<project>-announce@domain.tld ----------------------------- - Announce/News mailinglist for project <project> in <default language>
<project>-announce-<language>@domain.tld ---------------------------------------- - Announce/News mailinglist for project in <language>
<project>-users@domain.tld -------------------------- - Support mailinglist for the project <project> in <default language>
<project>-users-<language>@domain.tld ------------------------------------- - Support mailinglist about the project <project> in <language>
<project>-<topic>@domain.tld ---------------------------- - Mailinglist about the topic <topic> in the project <project> in <default language>
<project>-<topic>-<language>@domain.tld --------------------------------------- - Mailinglist about the topic <topic> in the project <project> in <language>
This would for instance mean for the openSUSE project:
opensuse@opensuse.org - General in english opensuse-de@opensuse.org - Generl in german opensuse-announce@opensuse.org - Announce in english opensuse-announce@opensuse.org - Announce in german opensuse-users@opensuse.org - Support in english opensuse-users-de@opensuse.org - Support in german opensuse-factory@opensuse.org - Factory in english opensuse-factory-de@opensuse.org - Factory in german
This layout scales pretty good. We need the <project> prefix because in the long run we are going to migrate everything that is on lists.suse.com to lists.opensuse.org. And we have other projects there, for instance taskjuggler or packet-writing.
Mailinglists will get setup on request. Im not going to setup mailinglists with one or less subscribers. I need to think of an request mechanism but it will probably be a mail address.
There is no hard requirement for a default language list but its very desirable. So for instance there shouldnt be a
opensuse-foo-de@opensuse.org
without a list
opensuse-foo@opensuse.org
But it might be that we cant avoid that in all cases.
Comments?
Henne
1- there are 23 major written language groups currently used on the planet, there are additionally some 158 dialect variations. even if you only support the major language groups you will need some physical space and people time to translate between, or is it the intention to only cover topics within their own language group? 2- have you thought about the matrix neccesary as you expand? 3- can it be from the start that everything is in text (no html or closed format attachments) for security, etc. (I for one have autodelete on for all attachments) 4- how will the mailing format to people go, message by message to all subscribed (such as suse uses now, it is the easiest way for the supplier but user timewasting where only a small number of threads may be of interest, especially to those that pay per minute for connect time) or daily digest (like freshmeat uses and provides a summary only, takes a little work to setup and monitor, requires the user to go and read a particular message to get full details). 5- finally, do we need such a large breakup as project, or would this be better set as the first word of the topic (or am i taking the word the wrong meaning) hope i've not offended anyone yet! regards scsijon ps has anyone tried listing the existing forums out there and their purposes? maybe what is needed is a rehash / combine/resplit instead.
scsijon wrote:
and people time to translate between, or is it the intention to only cover topics within their own language group?
my personal yhinking is that major project pages should be translated/adapted on any new wiki. Then the life goes... and probably the wikis diverge. It could be interesting to have a tool to list the wiki pages with an interwiki link (presumed translated) and the pages witj no interwiki links (link lacks or translation needed in either way). Translation stay on a user wish. may be this tools exists :-)
2- have you thought about the matrix neccesary as you expand?
never as big as wikipedia :-)
how will the mailing format to people go, message by message to all subscribed
depends of the mail manager. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
At 10:04 PM 17/02/2006, you wrote:
scsijon wrote:
and people time to translate between, or is it the intention to only cover topics within their own language group?
my personal yhinking is that major project pages should be translated/adapted on any new wiki. Then the life goes... and probably the wikis diverge.
It could be interesting to have a tool to list the wiki pages with an interwiki link (presumed translated) and the pages witj no interwiki links (link lacks or translation needed in either way). Translation stay on a user wish.
may be this tools exists :-)
babelfish could be your friend here regards scsijon
Am Freitag, 17. Februar 2006 12:27 schrieb scsijon:
At 10:04 PM 17/02/2006, you wrote:
scsijon wrote:
and people time to translate between, or is it the intention to only cover topics within their own language group?
my personal yhinking is that major project pages should be translated/adapted on any new wiki. Then the life goes... and probably the wikis diverge.
It could be interesting to have a tool to list the wiki pages with an interwiki link (presumed translated) and the pages witj no interwiki links (link lacks or translation needed in either way). Translation stay on a user wish.
may be this tools exists :-)
babelfish could be your friend here
Have you tried it? It usually translates about as well as a drunken 2 year old! :-P Dave
At 10:44 PM 17/02/2006, you wrote:
Am Freitag, 17. Februar 2006 12:27 schrieb scsijon:
At 10:04 PM 17/02/2006, you wrote:
scsijon wrote:
and people time to translate between, or is it the intention to only cover topics within their own language group?
my personal yhinking is that major project pages should be translated/adapted on any new wiki. Then the life goes... and probably the wikis diverge.
It could be interesting to have a tool to list the wiki pages with an interwiki link (presumed translated) and the pages witj no interwiki links (link lacks or translation needed in either way). Translation stay on a user wish.
may be this tools exists :-)
babelfish could be your friend here
Have you tried it? It usually translates about as well as a drunken 2 year old! :-P
yes i know, but it's at least understandable as my friends in Quebec, Greenland, Egypt and Thailand tell me. Only problem is Suise, where it appears as gobblegook, thankfully he can understand a reasonable level of technical english. regards scsijon
scsijon wrote:
yes i know, but it's at least understandable as my friends in Quebec, Greenland, Egypt and Thailand tell me. Only problem is Suise, where it appears as gobblegook, thankfully he can understand a reasonable level of technical english.
automatic translation is _not_ a solution here/ It's longer to fix than direct translation and this don't fix links and the rest... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Hi, On Friday, February 17, 2006 at 18:14:08, scsijon wrote:
1- there are 23 major written language groups currently used on the planet, there are additionally some 158 dialect variations.
even if you only support the major language groups you will need some physical space and people time to translate between, or is it the intention to only cover topics within their own language group?
What? We are talking about mailinglists here. Not about some websites...
2- have you thought about the matrix neccesary as you expand?
What exactly do you mean by "matrix"?
3- can it be from the start that everything is in text (no html or closed format attachments) for security, etc. (I for one have autodelete on for all attachments)
As the mailinglists allow only plain text you wont have anything else in the archives...
4- how will the mailing format to people go, message by message to all subscribed
Yes. Thats how mailinglists work. For some lists there might be a digest mode but that usually sucks big time. See the FAQ of our other lists. Q3. How to I get the list in digest form instead of separate emails? A3. We don't offer digested lists for several reasons: 1) Most of our lists (especially this one) are far to large to make digests useful. 2) In our experience, digests tend to decrease the quality of list postings. 3) Usually, when people request digests what they are really asking for is a way to keep the list mail from flooding their mailbox and making it harder to find and read non-list mail. This is a valid concern and one that is best handled with mail filtering, not digests.
5- finally, do we need such a large breakup as project, or would this be better set as the first word of the topic (or am i taking the word the wrong meaning)
That would mean that seperation of topics is up to users. That does not work.
ps has anyone tried listing the existing forums out there and their purposes? maybe what is needed is a rehash / combine/resplit instead.
We are talking about mailinglists. Not forums... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Core Services "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire)
At 10:19 PM 17/02/2006, you wrote:
Hi,
On Friday, February 17, 2006 at 18:14:08, scsijon wrote:
1- there are 23 major written language groups currently used on the planet, there are additionally some 158 dialect variations.
even if you only support the major language groups you will need some physical space and people time to translate between, or is it the intention to only cover topics within their own language group?
What? We are talking about mailinglists here. Not about some websites...
extracted from your earlier message
opensuse@opensuse.org - General in english opensuse-de@opensuse.org - General in german
and so for french opensuse-fr@opensuse.org - General in french and so for spanish opensuse-es@opensuse.org - General in spanish etc, etc and so on for each "topic"
2- have you thought about the matrix neccesary as you expand?
What exactly do you mean by "matrix"?
the hardware space, processing power running software, personpower support necessary for 1- above
3- can it be from the start that everything is in text (no html or closed format attachments) for security, etc. (I for one have autodelete on for all attachments)
As the mailinglists allow only plain text you wont have anything else in the archives...
good, many out there are not.
4- how will the mailing format to people go, message by message to all subscribed
Yes. Thats how mailinglists work. For some lists there might be a digest mode but that usually sucks big time. See the FAQ of our other lists.
Q3. How to I get the list in digest form instead of separate emails? A3. We don't offer digested lists for several reasons:
1) Most of our lists (especially this one) are far to large to make digests useful.
2) In our experience, digests tend to decrease the quality of list postings.
3) Usually, when people request digests what they are really asking for is a way to keep the list mail from flooding their mailbox and making it harder to find and read non-list mail. This is a valid concern and one that is best handled with mail filtering, not digests.
disagree here, digest mode is responsable mailing and becoming a major requirement in business and a requested standard for the future. Digests should come out daily. It just means someone has to do some design rule work and from those in digest mode that I use now I am provided with links to the full message if I want view it, that decision is left to me, not some message administrator. Also a number if ISP's are now either limiting messages from a single source or marking them SPAM. This is increasing as the webmasters talk together. mail filtering is primarily for another purpose, local splitting of messages, it should not be needed to be used for this.
5- finally, do we need such a large breakup as project, or would this be better set as the first word of the topic (or am i taking the word the wrong meaning)
That would mean that seperation of topics is up to users. That does not work.
no, this should be set by the incoming message system's filtering rules with a search to decide which of the "topicset available" should be used.
ps has anyone tried listing the existing forums out there and their purposes? maybe what is needed is a rehash / combine/resplit instead.
We are talking about mailinglists. Not forums...
and I meant mailing lists, there seems to be too many out there as it is duplicating and overlapping. scsijon
Hi All, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
This would for instance mean for the openSUSE project:
opensuse@opensuse.org - General in english opensuse-de@opensuse.org - Generl in german opensuse-announce@opensuse.org - Announce in english opensuse-announce@opensuse.org - Announce in german opensuse-users@opensuse.org - Support in english opensuse-users-de@opensuse.org - Support in german opensuse-factory@opensuse.org - Factory in english opensuse-factory-de@opensuse.org - Factory in german
I´m agree with this "layout" and i´ll like see a pt_br list in opensuse project.... Today, me and others brazilian friends have a group about suse in Yahoo! Groups (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/suse-linux-br/) with more than 300 active users and a average of 250 messages for month In the past we send more than 20 e-mails for "suse.com" informing ours interest in participating of a list "suse-linux-pt_br" and we did not get any reply... Regards, Vinny P.S. Sorry, but my english not is good....
participants (10)
-
David Wright -
email.listen＠googlemail.com -
Henne Vogelsang -
Henne Vogelsang -
houghi -
jdd -
Johannes Kastl -
Peter Flodin -
scsijon -
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