[opensuse] Split command to burn DVD+R (file size)

Jorge Fábregas

16 Oct 2007 16 Oct '07

17:18

Hello guys, I need to split a big tar into a couple of files so I can burn them on DVD+R media. I use Nero for this because it allows me to use UDF as the filesystem (allowing me to burn one BIG file). Considering that a DVD+R holds 4483MB (without overburn), how big should I split my big file? I want to burn AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE but I need to consider the filesystem overhead. Thus, I can't do this: split -b 4483m bigFile.tar Is there an easy way to figure out this? If it was an iso9660 I'd just create an ISO file and figure out the difference between payload (my actual data) and the filesystem overhead..but this is UDF. I just found out about mkudffs but it doesn't work like mkisofs...need to figure out that one. Thanks! Jorge -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Greg Freemyer

16 Oct 16 Oct

18:51

On 10/16/07, Jorge Fábregas wrote:

...

Hello guys,

I need to split a big tar into a couple of files so I can burn them on DVD+R media. I use Nero for this because it allows me to use UDF as the filesystem (allowing me to burn one BIG file).

Considering that a DVD+R holds 4483MB (without overburn), how big should I split my big file? I want to burn AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE but I need to consider the filesystem overhead. Thus, I can't do this:

split -b 4483m bigFile.tar

Is there an easy way to figure out this? If it was an iso9660 I'd just create an ISO file and figure out the difference between payload (my actual data) and the filesystem overhead..but this is UDF. I just found out about mkudffs but it doesn't work like mkisofs...need to figure out that one.

Thanks! Jorge

A slightly different question. Yesterday I had 9GBs of small files (about 115,000 files in one dir) to burn to DVD. Too big to fit on a single Dual Layer DVD by a few hundred GB, and almost too big to fit on 2 single layer DVDs. Is there a tool that would have allowed me to point at the entire 9GB directory and said make2 DVDs and fill the first one up, then put the rest on the next? I broke my single directory in half manually and had to ensure that the files fit. Took me a while to figure out the right break point. FYI: I needed the result to be in a standard format, not an archive format. ie. I was giving the DVDs to a client and they needed to be able to do a simple drag&drop from windows to get to the data on to their machine. Thanks Greg -- Greg Freemyer Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jan Engelhardt

20:05

On Oct 16 2007 14:51, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

A slightly different question.

Yesterday I had 9GBs of small files (about 115,000 files in one dir) to burn to DVD. Too big to fit on a single Dual Layer DVD by a few hundred GB, and almost too big to fit on 2 single layer DVDs.

Is there a tool that would have allowed me to point at the entire 9GB directory and said make2 DVDs and fill the first one up, then put the rest on the next? I broke my single directory in half manually and had to ensure that the files fit. Took me a while to figure out the right break point.

Yes, it is very easy actually. In Midnight Commander, change to the desired directory, and sort it by size, so that the biggest file is at first. Then use the <Insert> key to mark as many files until you hit the, say, 4700 MB barrier. Let's say you have selected 4600 MB worth of files, and the next file would cause it to go to 4750 MB. Instead of marking this 150 MB file, you select *the next best file(s)* so that you remain below the 4700 MB. When done, you move the files to another directory. Repeat the operation with the files that remain in SOURCE until there are no more files in SOURCE. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

20:15

On 10/16/07, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

On Oct 16 2007 14:51, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...
A slightly different question.

Yesterday I had 9GBs of small files (about 115,000 files in one dir) to burn to DVD. Too big to fit on a single Dual Layer DVD by a few hundred GB, and almost too big to fit on 2 single layer DVDs.

Is there a tool that would have allowed me to point at the entire 9GB directory and said make2 DVDs and fill the first one up, then put the rest on the next? I broke my single directory in half manually and had to ensure that the files fit. Took me a while to figure out the right break point.

Yes, it is very easy actually. In Midnight Commander, change to the desired directory, and sort it by size, so that the biggest file is at first. Then use the <Insert> key to mark as many files until you hit the, say, 4700 MB barrier. Let's say you have selected 4600 MB worth of files, and the next file would cause it to go to 4750 MB. Instead of marking this 150 MB file, you select *the next best file(s)* so that you remain below the 4700 MB. When done, you move the files to another directory.

Repeat the operation with the files that remain in SOURCE until there are no more files in SOURCE.

I don't think that actually works. There are inefficiencies in the DVD filesystem. (Just like any filesystem.) So when you have a bunch of files (48,500 on my first DVD) you lose some of the capacity. In my case I lost about 100-150 MBs I think. So my first DVD burn failed even though I had less the 4.7GB in my source directory. I think I need a tool that actually understands the what it is doing, not just a manual process. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

21:03

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 * Greg Freemyer [10-16-07 14:52]:

...

Yesterday I had 9GBs of small files (about 115,000 files in one dir) to burn to DVD. Too big to fit on a single Dual Layer DVD by a few hundred GB, and almost too big to fit on 2 single layer DVDs.

Is there a tool that would have allowed me to point at the entire 9GB directory and said make2 DVDs and fill the first one up, then put the rest on the next?

dar * dar: Backup and Restore Application - 2.3.4 [suse-oss] {ppc} @ http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/10.3/repo/oss/suse - 2.2.5 [BS::home:/andrewd18] {src} @ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/andrewd18/openSUSE_10.3 * dar: Backup and Restore Application - 2.3.4 [suse-oss] {ppc} @ http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/10.3/repo/oss/suse - 2.2.5 [BS::home:/andrewd18] {src} @ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/andrewd18/openSUSE_10.3 - -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn4472 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHFScuClSjbQz1U5oRArMAAKCpasM4O3Dx67mqQM/IZnyG2v7GVQCeIEh6 vMTi4UuPgc8M/DErSirbhjY= =+JIH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Bob S

17 Oct 17 Oct

02:25

On Tuesday 16 October 2007 05:03:43 pm Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Greg Freemyer [10-16-07 14:52]:

...
Yesterday I had 9GBs of small files (about 115,000 files in one dir) to burn to DVD. Too big to fit on a single Dual Layer DVD by a few hundred GB, and almost too big to fit on 2 single layer DVDs.

Is there a tool that would have allowed me to point at the entire 9GB directory and said make2 DVDs and fill the first one up, then put the rest on the next?

dar

* dar: Backup and Restore Application - 2.3.4 [suse-oss] {ppc} @ http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/10.3/repo/oss/suse - 2.2.5 [BS::home:/andrewd18] {src} @ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/andrewd18/openSUSE_10.3 * dar: Backup and Restore Application - 2.3.4 [suse-oss] {ppc} @ http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/10.3/repo/oss/suse - 2.2.5 [BS::home:/andrewd18] {src} @ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/andrewd18/openSUSE_10.3

And if you are a gui guy, Kdar. It's on your DVD. Bob S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

16 Oct 16 Oct

23:26

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-10-16 at 13:18 -0400, Jorge Fábregas wrote:

...

Hello guys,

I need to split a big tar into a couple of files so I can burn them on DVD+R media. I use Nero for this because it allows me to use UDF as the filesystem (allowing me to burn one BIG file).

Considering that a DVD+R holds 4483MB (without overburn),

4700 MB or 4.59 MiB.

...

how big should I split my big file? I want to burn AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE but I need to consider the filesystem overhead.

The maximum size of a file inside an iso filesystem is 2 GiB. But you do not need to format a DVD as ISO: you can, for example, burn an XFS image, that has the least overhead. It would also be possible to burn the tar file "raw", meaning absolutely no directory overhead: growisofs -Z /dev/dvd=sometarfile.tar -dvd-compat -speed=8 this way you can burn the 4700 MB. Of course, reading it back needs a little trick (use dd, not mount). - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFHFUjNtTMYHG2NR9URAnTvAKCRJAo0FYpRft9kPcWkcVC36RQkswCdE272 bzhhStmJSj//3U19xMTBGII= =31AH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

David Bolt

17 Oct 17 Oct

00:42

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Carlos E. R. wrote:-

...

The Tuesday 2007-10-16 at 13:18 -0400, Jorge Fábregas wrote:

...
Hello guys,

I need to split a big tar into a couple of files so I can burn them on DVD+R media. I use Nero for this because it allows me to use UDF as the filesystem (allowing me to burn one BIG file).

Considering that a DVD+R holds 4483MB (without overburn),

4700 MB or 4.59 MiB.

Capacity for a DVD+R is 4,700,372,992 bytes[0], 4,482.625MiB or 4.378GiB. A DVD+RDL has (quite) a bit less than double the +R capacity, holding 8,547,991,552 bytes[0], 8152MB, or 7.961GiB. <Snip>

...

It would also be possible to burn the tar file "raw", meaning absolutely no directory overhead:

growisofs -Z /dev/dvd=sometarfile.tar -dvd-compat -speed=8

this way you can burn the 4700 MB.

There is just one slight problem. You can't verify the burn using md5sum if tar uses the default block size. You need to set tar to use a 32KiB block size so it matches the default block size growisofs uses.

...

Of course, reading it back needs a little trick (use dd, not mount).

Or even just use tar to do it: tar xf /dev/dvd tar xzf /dev/dvd tar xjf /dev/dvd expand a plain tar, gzipped or bzip2'd tar straight from then DVD. [0] which the manufacturers round to 2 significant figures which ends up being the familiar 4.7GB. [1] again, the manufacturers round to 2 significant figures which ends up as 8.5GB. Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ 100Mnodes RC5-72 @ 15Mkeys SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | RISC OS 3.11 | RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

01:16

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2007-10-17 at 01:42 +0100, David Bolt wrote:

...

...
...
Considering that a DVD+R holds 4483MB (without overburn),

4700 MB or 4.59 MiB.

Hum, I should have written 4.377 GiB, my thick fingers on the calculator :(

...

Capacity for a DVD+R is 4,700,372,992 bytes[0], 4,482.625MiB or 4.378GiB. A DVD+RDL has (quite) a bit less than double the +R capacity, holding 8,547,991,552 bytes[0], 8152MB, or 7.961GiB.

Right.

...

<Snip>

...
It would also be possible to burn the tar file "raw", meaning absolutely no directory overhead:

growisofs -Z /dev/dvd=sometarfile.tar -dvd-compat -speed=8

this way you can burn the 4700 MB.

There is just one slight problem. You can't verify the burn using md5sum if tar uses the default block size. You need to set tar to use a 32KiB block size so it matches the default block size growisofs uses.

Ah? Now, that's very interesting, it would explain a problem I had. But... why would the internal organization of the image file matters? Do yo have some doc or link on this? It would mean that md5sum wouldn't read back the same bits that were supposedly written, there is some thing else... padding?

...

...
Of course, reading it back needs a little trick (use dd, not mount).

Or even just use tar to do it:

tar xf /dev/dvd tar xzf /dev/dvd tar xjf /dev/dvd

expand a plain tar, gzipped or bzip2'd tar straight from then DVD.

Right.

...

[0] which the manufacturers round to 2 significant figures which ends up being the familiar 4.7GB.

Ah... good to know.

...

[1] again, the manufacturers round to 2 significant figures which ends up as 8.5GB.

I'll save this for future reference. When I wanted to know the exact size of a dvd I found the 4.7 GB figure. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFHFWJ1tTMYHG2NR9URAkHeAJwP3ci6i8076J5ih2UL1leiUN3HgACeOAR6 ZIxMnaehkxiH9+6KDIGjZj4= =XDhA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Bolt

03:15

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Carlos E. R. wrote:-

...

The Wednesday 2007-10-17 at 01:42 +0100, David Bolt wrote:

...

...
There is just one slight problem. You can't verify the burn using md5sum if tar uses the default block size. You need to set tar to use a 32KiB block size so it matches the default block size growisofs uses.

Ah? Now, that's very interesting, it would explain a problem I had. But... why would the internal organization of the image file matters?

It doesn't. It's a matter of differing block lengths. A tar archive writes in 10KiB blocks, whereas growisofs uses its internal dd with an output block size of 32KiB. Since the growisofs block size isn't an exact multiple of the tar block size, padding occurs.

...

Do yo have some doc or link on this?

Not seen any mention of it in the documentation, and haven't searched to see if I could find anything about it, just observed it. Here's a quick example[0]: davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> ls -l total 173652 -rw------- 1 davjam users 67072000 2007-10-17 02:22 home.tar -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55280688 2007-10-17 02:51 home.tar.bz2 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55269298 2007-10-17 02:52 home.tar.gz davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> for FILE in home.tar*

...

do growisofs -Z /dev/hdc="${FILE}" -dvd-compat -speed 4 && dd if=/dev/dvd of="dvd.${FILE}" eject /dev/hdc read DUMMY done Executing 'builtin_dd if=home.tar of=/dev/hdc obs=32k seek=0' /dev/hdc: "Current Write Speed" is 4.1x1352KBps. 1572864/67072000 ( 2.3%) @0.0x, remaining 2:46 RBU 100.0% UBU 2.1% 1572864/67072000 ( 2.3%) @0.0x, remaining 5:33 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 1572864/67072000 ( 2.3%) @0.0x, remaining 7:38 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 6324224/67072000 ( 9.4%) @1.0x, remaining 2:14 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 17465344/67072000 (26.0%) @2.4x, remaining 0:51 RBU 99.9% UBU 100.0% 28573696/67072000 (42.6%) @2.4x, remaining 0:28 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 39682048/67072000 (59.2%) @2.4x, remaining 0:16 RBU 81.6% UBU 100.0% 50823168/67072000 (75.8%) @2.4x, remaining 0:08 RBU 48.4% UBU 100.0% 61931520/67072000 (92.3%) @2.4x, remaining 0:02 RBU 15.3% UBU 100.0% builtin_dd: 32752*2KB out @ average 1.5x1352KBps /dev/hdc: flushing cache /dev/hdc: closing track /dev/hdc: closing disc 131008+0 records in 131008+0 records out 67076096 bytes (67 MB) copied, 33.386 s, 2.0 MB/s

Executing 'builtin_dd if=home.tar.bz2 of=/dev/hdc obs=32k seek=0' /dev/hdc: "Current Write Speed" is 4.1x1352KBps. 1572864/55280688 ( 2.8%) @0.0x, remaining 2:16 RBU 100.0% UBU 2.1% 1572864/55280688 ( 2.8%) @0.0x, remaining 3:59 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 1572864/55280688 ( 2.8%) @0.0x, remaining 5:41 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 6455296/55280688 (11.7%) @1.1x, remaining 1:45 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 17596416/55280688 (31.8%) @2.4x, remaining 0:36 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 28704768/55280688 (51.9%) @2.4x, remaining 0:18 RBU 79.3% UBU 100.0% 39845888/55280688 (72.1%) @2.4x, remaining 0:09 RBU 46.1% UBU 100.0% 50954240/55280688 (92.2%) @2.4x, remaining 0:02 RBU 13.0% UBU 100.0% builtin_dd: 27008*2KB out @ average 1.4x1352KBps /dev/hdc: flushing cache /dev/hdc: closing track /dev/hdc: closing disc 108032+0 records in 108032+0 records out 55312384 bytes (55 MB) copied, 28.3513 s, 2.0 MB/s Executing 'builtin_dd if=home.tar.gz of=/dev/hdc obs=32k seek=0' /dev/hdc: "Current Write Speed" is 4.1x1352KBps. 1572864/55269298 ( 2.8%) @0.0x, remaining 3:24 RBU 100.0% UBU 2.1% 1572864/55269298 ( 2.8%) @0.0x, remaining 5:07 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 3112960/55269298 ( 5.6%) @0.3x, remaining 3:21 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 9928704/55269298 (18.0%) @1.5x, remaining 1:13 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 21069824/55269298 (38.1%) @2.4x, remaining 0:30 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 32178176/55269298 (58.2%) @2.4x, remaining 0:15 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 43319296/55269298 (78.4%) @2.4x, remaining 0:07 RBU 71.3% UBU 100.0% 54427648/55269298 (98.5%) @2.4x, remaining 0:00 RBU 5.1% UBU 100.0% builtin_dd: 26992*2KB out @ average 1.4x1352KBps /dev/hdc: flushing cache /dev/hdc: closing track /dev/hdc: closing disc 107968+0 records in 107968+0 records out 55279616 bytes (55 MB) copied, 36.1937 s, 1.5 MB/s davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> ls -l total 347344 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 67076096 2007-10-17 03:30 dvd.home.tar -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55312384 2007-10-17 03:32 dvd.home.tar.bz2 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55279616 2007-10-17 03:37 dvd.home.tar.gz -rw------- 1 davjam users 67072000 2007-10-17 02:22 home.tar -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55280688 2007-10-17 02:51 home.tar.bz2 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55269298 2007-10-17 02:52 home.tar.gz davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> for FILE in dvd.*

...

do read -p "Insert disc equivalent of ${FILE}" DUMMY case "${FILE:14}" in bz2) echo "disc equivalent of ${FILE}" tar xjf /dev/hdc ;; gz) echo "disc equivalent of ${FILE}" tar xzf /dev/hdc ;; *) echo "disc equivalent of ${FILE}" tar xf /dev/hdc ;; esac eject /dev/hdc done Insert disc equivalent of dvd.home.tar disc equivalent of dvd.home.tar Insert disc equivalent of dvd.home.tar.bz2 disc equivalent of dvd.home.tar.bz2

bzip2: (stdin): trailing garbage after EOF ignored Insert disc equivalent of dvd.home.tar.gz disc equivalent of dvd.home.tar.gz davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> ls -l total 347348 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 67076096 2007-10-17 03:30 dvd.home.tar -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55312384 2007-10-17 03:32 dvd.home.tar.bz2 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55279616 2007-10-17 03:37 dvd.home.tar.gz drwxr-xr-x 3 davjam users 4096 2007-10-10 00:13 home -rw------- 1 davjam users 67072000 2007-10-17 02:22 home.tar -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55280688 2007-10-17 02:51 home.tar.bz2 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55269298 2007-10-17 02:52 home.tar.gz

...

It would mean that md5sum wouldn't read back the same bits that were supposedly written, there is some thing else... padding?

That's what it seems to be. A quick check shows that you can get around it by using either of these tar options: --blocking-factor=64 --record-size=32768 A quick test shows they both produce tar archives where the length is exactly divisible by the growisofs block length: davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar cf home.2.tar --record-size=32768 home davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar cf home.3.tar --blocking-factor=64 home davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> ls -l total 478492 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 67076096 2007-10-17 03:30 dvd.home.tar -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55312384 2007-10-17 03:32 dvd.home.tar.bz2 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55279616 2007-10-17 03:37 dvd.home.tar.gz drwxr-xr-x 3 davjam users 4096 2007-10-10 00:13 home -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 67076096 2007-10-17 04:01 home.2.tar -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 67076096 2007-10-17 04:02 home.3.tar -rw------- 1 davjam users 67072000 2007-10-17 02:22 home.tar -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55280688 2007-10-17 02:51 home.tar.bz2 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 55269298 2007-10-17 02:52 home.tar.gz davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> growisofs -Z /dev/hdc="home.2.tar" -dvd-compat -speed 4 && dd if=/dev/dvd of="dvd.home.2.tar" Executing 'builtin_dd if=home.2.tar of=/dev/hdc obs=32k seek=0' /dev/hdc: "Current Write Speed" is 4.1x1352KBps. 1572864/67076096 ( 2.3%) @0.0x, remaining 4:09 RBU 100.0% UBU 2.1% 1572864/67076096 ( 2.3%) @0.0x, remaining 6:56 RBU 100.0% UBU 100.0% 3440640/67076096 ( 5.1%) @0.4x, remaining 4:00 RBU 100.0% UBU 95.8% 9207808/67076096 (13.7%) @1.2x, remaining 1:40 RBU 100.0% UBU 27.1% 16220160/67076096 (24.2%) @1.5x, remaining 1:02 RBU 100.0% UBU 14.6% 23232512/67076096 (34.6%) @1.5x, remaining 0:43 RBU 100.0% UBU 6.2% 30212096/67076096 (45.0%) @1.5x, remaining 0:32 RBU 100.0% UBU 10.4% 37224448/67076096 (55.5%) @1.5x, remaining 0:24 RBU 100.0% UBU 18.8% 44236800/67076096 (66.0%) @1.5x, remaining 0:17 RBU 100.0% UBU 22.9% 51249152/67076096 (76.4%) @1.5x, remaining 0:11 RBU 100.0% UBU 6.2% 58261504/67076096 (86.9%) @1.5x, remaining 0:06 RBU 100.0% UBU 8.3% 65273856/67076096 (97.3%) @1.5x, remaining 0:01 RBU 100.0% UBU 16.7% builtin_dd: 32752*2KB out @ average 1.1x1352KBps /dev/hdc: flushing cache /dev/hdc: closing track /dev/hdc: closing disc 131008+0 records in 131008+0 records out 67076096 bytes (67 MB) copied, 50.1566 s, 1.3 MB/s davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> md5sum home.2.tar dvd.home.2.tar /dev/hdc 377f9a42287c631d7367f7ee53e681df home.2.tar 377f9a42287c631d7367f7ee53e681df dvd.home.2.tar 377f9a42287c631d7367f7ee53e681df /dev/hdc And, as you can see above, using either of those two options results in all three test subjects being binary identical.

...

...
Or even just use tar to do it:

tar xf /dev/dvd tar xzf /dev/dvd tar xjf /dev/dvd

expand a plain tar, gzipped or bzip2'd tar straight from then DVD.

Right.

Forgot to mention, the "tar xjf /dev/dvd" pops up a warning about ignoring extra data after the EOF marker whereas the other two don't.

...

I'll save this for future reference. When I wanted to know the exact size of a dvd I found the 4.7 GB figure.

I always use a figure of 4.2GiB. Gives me a little leeway, just in case. [0] Had to use DVD+R for this. Trying it with a +RW resulted in the entire contents of the disc being read, all 4.3GiB of it :| Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ 100Mnodes RC5-72 @ 15Mkeys SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | RISC OS 3.11 | RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

11:05

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2007-10-17 at 04:15 +0100, David Bolt wrote: ...

...

see if I could find anything about it, just observed it. Here's a quick example[0]:

davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> ls -l total 173652 -rw------- 1 davjam users 67072000 2007-10-17 02:22 home.tar

....

...

67076096 bytes (67 MB) copied, 33.386 s, 2.0 MB/s

Ah! I understand now, it's padded up to complete an exact number of sectors. That's clear. ...

...

disc equivalent of dvd.home.tar Insert disc equivalent of dvd.home.tar.bz2 disc equivalent of dvd.home.tar.bz2

bzip2: (stdin): trailing garbage after EOF ignored

of course...

...

...
It would mean that md5sum wouldn't read back the same bits that were supposedly written, there is some thing else... padding?

That's what it seems to be. A quick check shows that you can get around it by using either of these tar options:

--blocking-factor=64 --record-size=32768

A quick test shows they both produce tar archives where the length is exactly divisible by the growisofs block length:

davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar cf home.2.tar --record-size=32768 home davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar cf home.3.tar --blocking-factor=64 home

...

-rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 67076096 2007-10-17 04:01 home.2.tar -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 67076096 2007-10-17 04:02 home.3.tar

...

131008+0 records in 131008+0 records out 67076096 bytes (67 MB) copied, 50.1566 s, 1.3 MB/s

Right.

...

davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> md5sum home.2.tar dvd.home.2.tar /dev/hdc 377f9a42287c631d7367f7ee53e681df home.2.tar 377f9a42287c631d7367f7ee53e681df dvd.home.2.tar 377f9a42287c631d7367f7ee53e681df /dev/hdc

And, as you can see above, using either of those two options results in all three test subjects being binary identical.

Yep. I must remember this, not only with tars, but when creating images files.

...

Forgot to mention, the "tar xjf /dev/dvd" pops up a warning about ignoring extra data after the EOF marker whereas the other two don't.

Curious.

...

...
I'll save this for future reference. When I wanted to know the exact size of a dvd I found the 4.7 GB figure.

I always use a figure of 4.2GiB. Gives me a little leeway, just in case.

[0] Had to use DVD+R for this. Trying it with a +RW resulted in the entire contents of the disc being read, all 4.3GiB of it :|

Maybe because it overwrites the whole disk to erase the old contents. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFHFeyVtTMYHG2NR9URAlutAJ0UmqHXp0DHXJE4Xfvg2fY/m50ykACeIAAf IFRq383DQgWOrlfyEYAxfIg= =Vx0i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jorge Fábregas

01:37

On Tuesday 16 October 2007 8:42 pm, David Bolt wrote:

...

Capacity for a DVD+R is 4,700,372,992 bytes[0], 4,482.625MiB or 4.378GiB. A DVD+RDL has (quite) a bit less than double the +R capacity, holding 8,547,991,552 bytes[0], 8152MB, or 7.961GiB.

Thanks Carlos & David. My point really is...knowing this I can't simply split my big tar file in chunks of 4,482.625 MiB's because I need to consider the filesystem overhead (UDF in my case). I really want to use Nero because I like it's verification process and I trust it for burning UDF. I wanted to know if there was an easier way, besides trial & error (Nero telling me it won't fit)... Regards, Jorge -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sunny

02:00

On 10/16/07, Jorge Fábregas wrote:

...

Thanks Carlos & David. My point really is...knowing this I can't simply split my big tar file in chunks of 4,482.625 MiB's because I need to consider the filesystem overhead (UDF in my case). I really want to use Nero because I like it's verification process and I trust it for burning UDF. I wanted to know if there was an easier way, besides trial & error (Nero telling me it won't fit)...

OK, I followed the thread from the beginning, and I still can not understand the requirements. How exactly you use Nero, so it is so helpful (how does it tell you where to split the tar?)? K3b is perfectly capable to write UDF system, as well as to show you how mjuch data you can fit. As far as you are going to write always one big file, the overhead of the filesystem should be constant, so you need only once to find it out. If Nero can do this (how?), just get it's data. What am I missing? -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. N��r��y隊Z)z{.�ﮞ˛��m�)z{.��+�Z+i�b�*'jW(�f�vǦj)h��Ǿ��i��

Jorge Fábregas

11:41

On Tuesday 16 October 2007 10:00 pm, Sunny wrote:

...

OK, I followed the thread from the beginning, and I still can not understand the requirements. How exactly you use Nero, so it is so helpful (how does it tell you where to split the tar?)?

Hiya Sunny. Nero won't tell me how to split my file. I do that before with the split command. My issue was that I wanted to know beforehand the actual size of the filesystem overhead (for a splitted file). So...both, my payload (actual data) + filesystem-overhead should equal about 4,482.625MiB for DVD+R..

...

K3b is perfectly capable to write UDF system, as well as to show you how mjuch data you can fit.

No, it's not. K3b uses mkisofs to generate its images and mkisofs does not support udf-only filesystems. Try to burn a 4GB file in K3b and you'll see.

...

As far as you are going to write always one big file, the overhead of the filesystem should be constant, so you need only once to find it out.

You are right. Thanks, Jorge -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sunny

15:11

On 10/17/07, Jorge Fábregas wrote:

...

No, it's not. K3b uses mkisofs to generate its images and mkisofs does not support udf-only filesystems. Try to burn a 4GB file in K3b and you'll see.

According to release notes for 10.3: <cite> Tools to Write Optical Disc Media (CD-ROM and DVD) The cdrecord package has been dropped from the distribution. The new wodim, genisoimage, and icedax packages from the cdrkit project can be used to record data or audio CDs on a CD recorder that conforms with the Orange Book standard. Binaries got renamed as follows: cdrecord -> wodim readcd -> readom mkisofs -> genisoimage cdda2wav -> icedax </cite> Anyway, I just read the man page for genisoimage, and there it is written that UDF support is alpha stage, so it uses some Joliet tricks. So, I do not know what to tell you ... it appears that you are after a tool to write UDF filesystem ... Maybe you can try to post on genisoimage list, if they have any, or something. Also you may try to make a new post with proper subject. Cheers -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap.

Carlos E. R.

22:53

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-10-16 at 21:37 -0400, Jorge Fábregas wrote:

...

On Tuesday 16 October 2007 8:42 pm, David Bolt wrote:

...
Capacity for a DVD+R is 4,700,372,992 bytes[0], 4,482.625MiB or 4.378GiB. A DVD+RDL has (quite) a bit less than double the +R capacity, holding 8,547,991,552 bytes[0], 8152MB, or 7.961GiB.

Thanks Carlos & David. My point really is...knowing this I can't simply split my big tar file in chunks of 4,482.625 MiB's because I need to consider the filesystem overhead (UDF in my case). I really want to use Nero because I like it's verification process and I trust it for burning UDF. I wanted to know if there was an easier way, besides trial & error (Nero telling me it won't fit)...

Our point was that if you are only saving a single file, you do not need to "format" the DVD, not as UDF, not as ISO, nor as anything at all. Ie, you can burn it "raw". You simply go to k3b and tell it to burn a dvd image file, and give "somearchive.tar.split1" as the "image". K3b will complain that it is not an iso image, but it will burn anyway. The advantage is that you don't waste anyspace for directory entries and such: there are none. The disadvantage is that the dvd will not be "mountable", of course. Windows will think it is broken :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFHFpKGtTMYHG2NR9URAlUZAJ41nTcLYhDPrxCi3vAeuxyBHc4bDwCdEDDE IePqmEQiwlRnaoWUDkkiMUw= =S2zH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Jorge Fábregas

23:30

On Wednesday 17 October 2007 6:53 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Our point was that if you are only saving a single file, you do not need to "format" the DVD, not as UDF, not as ISO, nor as anything at all. Ie, you can burn it "raw". You simply go to k3b and tell it to burn a dvd image file, and give "somearchive.tar.split1" as the "image". K3b will complain that it is not an iso image, but it will burn anyway.

Got it now Carlos. As always, Thanks! I'll try that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18 Oct 18 Oct

00:24

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2007-10-17 at 19:30 -0400, Jorge Fábregas wrote:

...

On Wednesday 17 October 2007 6:53 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
Our point was that if you are only saving a single file, you do not need to "format" the DVD, not as UDF, not as ISO, nor as anything at all. Ie, you can burn it "raw". You simply go to k3b and tell it to burn a dvd image file, and give "somearchive.tar.split1" as the "image". K3b will complain that it is not an iso image, but it will burn anyway.

Got it now Carlos. As always, Thanks! I'll try that.

Just beware that the size should better be a multiple of 32 KiB, because the real size of the dvd will be padded up to fill the last block. It will work in any case, just that verification of the image could fail (and there are tricks around that, too). It's a very curious trick, having this kind of raw storage. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFHFqfStTMYHG2NR9URArF1AJ42S/kumc9dl5SYTN8PzQktEXznIgCeOpX6 CS2RoYMjGYEQe2C+/GSIfUI= =8Q57 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

David Bolt

23:05

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Carlos E. R. wrote:- <snip>

...

Our point was that if you are only saving a single file, you do not need to "format" the DVD, not as UDF, not as ISO, nor as anything at all. Ie, you can burn it "raw". You simply go to k3b and tell it to burn a dvd image file, and give "somearchive.tar.split1" as the "image". K3b will complain that it is not an iso image, but it will burn anyway.

If you use DVD+RW you don't need to use k3b or growisofs as tar will write directly to the disc. Other good points are that the DVD+R capacity is an exact multiple of 32KiB so, if the archive is split up as it's too big for a single DVD, only the last chunk may be padded. Also, if DVD+RW are used, you can use the --tape-length option and then tar itself will split the archive up for you at the appropriate points: davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> dd if=/dev/zero of=blank.file count=512 bs=1M 512+0 records in 512+0 records out 536870912 bytes (537 MB) copied, 176.111 s, 3.0 MB/s davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar --create --verbose --file /dev/dvdrw --record-size=32768 --multi-volume ---tape-length=491520 * blank.file Prepare volume #2 for `/dev/hdc' and hit return: mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar --list --verbose --file /dev/dvdrw --multi-volume --tape-length=491520 -rw-r--r-- davjam/users 536870912 2007-10-18 02:42 blank.file tar: Skipping to next header tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors Hmm, that "read the whole of the DVD+RW" thing strikes again :| Serves me right for trying to use a 480MiB "tape" size on a 4.3GiB disc. Okay, round two. This time with real data and with a "tape" length of 4590208 1KiB blocks. This size is the exact capacity of a DVD+RW, as well as a DVD+R: davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/mnt/hda1 63+0 records in 63+0 records out 32256 bytes (32 kB) copied, 0.035562 s, 907 kB/s davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> dd if=/dev/hda2 of=/mnt/hda2 54+0 records in 54+0 records out 27648 bytes (28 kB) copied, 0.014146 s, 2.0 MB/s davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> dd if=/dev/hda3 of=/mnt/hda3 74+0 records in 74+0 records out 37888 bytes (38 kB) copied, 0.019665 s, 1.9 MB/s davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> dd if=/dev/hda4 of=/mnt/hda4 512+0 records in 512+0 records out 262144 bytes (262 kB) copied, 0.139448 s, 1.9 MB/s davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> dd if=/dev/hda5 of=/mnt/hda5 196608+0 records in 196608+0 records out 100663296 bytes (101 MB) copied, 80.2105 s, 1.3 MB/s davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> dd if=/dev/hda6 of=/mnt/hda6 16384000+0 records in 16384000+0 records out 8388608000 bytes (8.4 GB) copied, 6843.26 s, 1.2 MB/s davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> ls -l /mnt total 8298792 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 32256 2007-10-18 03:02 hda1 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 27648 2007-10-18 03:02 hda2 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 37888 2007-10-18 03:02 hda3 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 262144 2007-10-18 03:02 hda4 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 100663296 2007-10-18 03:04 hda5 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 8388608000 2007-10-18 04:58 hda6 drwx------ 2 root root 16384 2007-10-10 12:46 lost+found davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> pushd /mnt /mnt /usr/src/packages/SOURCES davjam@lion:/mnt> tar --create --verbose --file /dev/dvdrw --record-size=32768 --tape-length=4590208 --exclude=lost+found * hda1 hda2 hda3 hda4 hda5 hda6 Prepare volume #2 for `/dev/dvdrw' and hit return: davjam@lion:/mnt> tar --list --verbose --file /dev/dvdrw --record-size=32768 --tape-length=4590208 -rw-r--r-- davjam/users 32256 2007-10-18 03:02 hda1 -rw-r--r-- davjam/users 27648 2007-10-18 03:02 hda2 -rw-r--r-- davjam/users 37888 2007-10-18 03:02 hda3 -rw-r--r-- davjam/users 262144 2007-10-18 03:02 hda4 -rw-r--r-- davjam/users 100663296 2007-10-18 03:04 hda5 -rw-r--r-- davjam/users 8388608000 2007-10-18 04:58 hda6 Prepare volume #2 for `/dev/dvdrw' and hit return: davjam@lion:/mnt> popd /usr/src/packages/SOURCES davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> sudo umount /mnt root's password: davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> sudo mkdir -p /mnt/hda1{0,3} davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> sudo mount /dev/hda10 /mnt/hda10 davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> sudo mount /dev/hda13 /mnt/hda13 davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hda9 16126920 10526232 4781488 69% / udev 191872 116 191756 1% /dev /dev/hda12 15600816 470744 14337592 4% /local /dev/hda10 16126920 8469968 6837752 56% /mnt/hda10 /dev/hda13 26200828 176200 24693692 1% /mnt/hda13 davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> sudo chown root.users /mnt/hda13 davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> sudo chmod 775 /mnt/hda13 davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> ls -l /mnt total 8 drwxrwxr-x 3 root users 4096 2007-10-18 03:04 hda10 drwxrwxr-x 3 root users 4096 2007-10-12 12:17 hda13 davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> pushd /mnt/hda13 /mnt/hda13 /usr/src/packages/SOURCES davjam@lion:/mnt/hda13> tar --extract --verbose --file /dev/dvdrw --record-size=32768 --tape-length=4590208 hda1 hda2 hda3 hda4 hda5 hda6 Prepare volume #2 for `/dev/dvdrw' and hit return: davjam@lion:/mnt> md5sum hda1{0,3}/*|sort md5sum: hda10/lost+found: Permission denied md5sum: hda13/lost+found: Permission denied 1a0e8f4574c9f48a965b1e9961c1aa24 hda10/hda2 1a0e8f4574c9f48a965b1e9961c1aa24 hda13/hda2 24aa52eed5ff2e3f534dc2b9499b0e45 hda10/hda3 24aa52eed5ff2e3f534dc2b9499b0e45 hda13/hda3 5cd61fb49d6ecc353c8f07aa7cdddaaf hda10/hda6 5cd61fb49d6ecc353c8f07aa7cdddaaf hda13/hda6 62c4f49cf4cd31b2991b0f4e61fd403b hda10/hda5 62c4f49cf4cd31b2991b0f4e61fd403b hda13/hda5 6e6278336b9081b5c7e66917bcbdb1bf hda10/hda4 6e6278336b9081b5c7e66917bcbdb1bf hda13/hda4 b3cb54252e31e7e19d317b3a9362f2db hda10/hda1 b3cb54252e31e7e19d317b3a9362f2db hda13/hda1 davjam@lion:/mnt> ls -lR .: total 8 drwxrwxr-x 3 root users 4096 2007-10-18 03:04 hda10 drwxrwxr-x 3 root users 4096 2007-10-18 18:03 hda13 ./hda10: total 8298792 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 32256 2007-10-18 03:02 hda1 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 27648 2007-10-18 03:02 hda2 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 37888 2007-10-18 03:02 hda3 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 262144 2007-10-18 03:02 hda4 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 100663296 2007-10-18 03:04 hda5 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 8388608000 2007-10-18 04:58 hda6 drwx------ 2 root root 16384 2007-10-10 12:46 lost+found ls: cannot open directory ./hda10/lost+found: Permission denied ./hda13: total 8298792 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 32256 2007-10-18 03:02 hda1 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 27648 2007-10-18 03:02 hda2 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 37888 2007-10-18 03:02 hda3 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 262144 2007-10-18 03:02 hda4 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 100663296 2007-10-18 03:04 hda5 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 8388608000 2007-10-18 04:58 hda6 drwx------ 2 root root 16384 2007-10-10 12:48 lost+found ls: cannot open directory ./hda13/lost+found: Permission denied Also, if you really want to make sure the archive has been written correctly, there's always the --verify option. The restriction is that you can't be used when you pass the --multi-volume option to tar. If you aren't going to use DVD+RW, but use a DVD+R instead, you can still use the same command. You'll just need to use a file somewhere and, at each break, write that to a DVD using growisofs. It might also be possible to use a named pipe as the output for tar and input for growisofs but, as I haven't tried that yet, I don't know for certain if that would work.

...

The advantage is that you don't waste anyspace for directory entries and such: there are none.

The disadvantage is that the dvd will not be "mountable", of course. Windows will think it is broken :-p

Windows seems to think lots of things are broken when they aren't, so that doesn't come as a surprise. Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ 100Mnodes RC5-72 @ 15Mkeys SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | RISC OS 3.11 | RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith

19 Oct 19 Oct

08:13

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 David Bolt wrote:

...

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, Carlos E. R. wrote:-

It might also be possible to use a named pipe as the output for tar and input for growisofs but, as I haven't tried that yet, I don't know for certain if that would work.

<snip> I believe this is a wodim option with the standard pipe, have not tried it though. I use growisofs in an automated script mainly because it refuses to write to an iso image with a script which avoids some those "Doh!" moments :-) Nice to see that this does work as expected... neat ... will see if the option you used work with my device later...

...

...
The advantage is that you don't waste anyspace for directory entries and such: there are none.

The disadvantage is that the dvd will not be "mountable", of course. Windows will think it is broken :-p

Windows seems to think lots of things are broken when they aren't, so that doesn't come as a surprise.

Regards, David Bolt

- -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHGGdAasN0sSnLmgIRAuQ6AJ9ZOFlvfI5cpgbhcQYHfgnDjGfP/QCgncHS W6g7ve6JmwhGGCq6giBa0Do= =SZ/j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith

17 Oct 17 Oct

15:01

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Tuesday 2007-10-16 at 13:18 -0400, Jorge Fábregas wrote:

...
Hello guys,

<snip>

...

It would also be possible to burn the tar file "raw", meaning absolutely no directory overhead:

growisofs -Z /dev/dvd=sometarfile.tar -dvd-compat -speed=8

this way you can burn the 4700 MB. Of course, reading it back needs a little trick (use dd, not mount).

You do not need dd (or mount), tar with with the DVD/CD device name as target does it nicely for reading (and writing). I would expect multi-volume tar to work in the same way as it would with a tape device in this scenario... One can effectively treat a writeable DVD/CD as datastream media (i.e. like a tape Basically the track layout is the same as that of a vinyl record, a long spiral, not a block and sector layout like a floppy or HD..).

...

-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.

- -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHFiO+asN0sSnLmgIRAtnRAKDvaMNlmFMVUWcQNhcCXi4b//unYACgzrNo 9U00jvmMAJxETxAMWSGDe8c= =F7ce -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Bolt

15:43

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, G T Smith wrote:- <snip>

...

You do not need dd (or mount), tar with with the DVD/CD device name as target does it nicely for reading (and writing). I would expect multi-volume tar to work in the same way as it would with a tape device in this scenario...

Would you mind letting me know just what options you used to make tar write straight to a DVD? A few tests here, both as a normal user and root, fail as shown below: davjam@lion:~> cd /usr/src/packages/SOURCES davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> ls -l total 236 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 233501 2007-10-14 21:54 mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar cf /dev/hdc mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/hdc: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar cf /dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar c --file=/dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> sudo mount /dev/hdc /mnt root's password: mount: you must specify the filesystem type davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> su - Password: lion:~ # cd /usr/src/packages/SOURCES lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES # tar cf /dev/hdc mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/hdc: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES # tar cf /dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES # tar c --file=/dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ 100Mnodes RC5-72 @ 15Mkeys SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | RISC OS 3.11 | RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith

17:02

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 David Bolt wrote:

...

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, G T Smith wrote:-

<snip>

...
You do not need dd (or mount), tar with with the DVD/CD device name as target does it nicely for reading (and writing). I would expect multi-volume tar to work in the same way as it would with a tape device in this scenario...

Would you mind letting me know just what options you used to make tar write straight to a DVD? A few tests here, both as a normal user and root, fail as shown below:

davjam@lion:~> cd /usr/src/packages/SOURCES davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> ls -l total 236 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 233501 2007-10-14 21:54 mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar cf /dev/hdc mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/hdc: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar cf /dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar c --file=/dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> sudo mount /dev/hdc /mnt root's password: mount: you must specify the filesystem type davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> su - Password: lion:~ # cd /usr/src/packages/SOURCES lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES # tar cf /dev/hdc mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/hdc: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES # tar cf /dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES # tar c --file=/dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now

Regards, David Bolt

Hmmm... you mounted the media, umount then try.... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHFkA2asN0sSnLmgIRAm1dAKDJhBKmkX2tz/zXoNIzRt4s6j/4kwCg7zLH V5SL+EM7lF4utSdvimu3rAE= =jPUD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Bolt

17:20

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, G T Smith wrote:- <snip>

...

...
davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> sudo mount /dev/hdc /mnt root's password: mount: you must specify the filesystem type

<snip>

...

Hmmm... you mounted the media, umount then try....

It was a completely blank DVD+R, there was no file system on it so, as you can see from the snippet above, the mount attempt failed. Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ 100Mnodes RC5-72 @ 15Mkeys SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | RISC OS 3.11 | RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith

17:33

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 G T Smith wrote:

...

David Bolt wrote:

...
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, G T Smith wrote:-

...
<snip>

...
...
You do not need dd (or mount), tar with with the DVD/CD device name as target does it nicely for reading (and writing). I would expect multi-volume tar to work in the same way as it would with a tape device in this scenario... Would you mind letting me know just what options you used to make tar write straight to a DVD? A few tests here, both as a normal user and root, fail as shown below:

...
davjam@lion:~> cd /usr/src/packages/SOURCES davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> ls -l total 236 -rw-r--r-- 1 davjam users 233501 2007-10-14 21:54 mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar cf /dev/hdc mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/hdc: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar cf /dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> tar c --file=/dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> sudo mount /dev/hdc /mnt root's password: mount: you must specify the filesystem type davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> davjam@lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES> su - Password: lion:~ # cd /usr/src/packages/SOURCES lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES # tar cf /dev/hdc mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/hdc: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES # tar cf /dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now lion:/usr/src/packages/SOURCES # tar c --file=/dev/dvdrw mplayerplug-in-3.45-0.pm.2.src.rpm tar: /dev/dvdrw: Cannot open: Read-only file system tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now

...
Regards, David Bolt

Hmmm... you mounted the media, umount then try....

OK, on my old and now dead DVD device this worked with -c (dunno why suspect it was rather slow so one could get a constant data stream)... Does not work on the newer replacement without -cz and then unreliably (get an I/O error)..but files are extractable, so this seems to be hardware related... still can read tar archive directly however... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHFkd5asN0sSnLmgIRAq/zAKD23qibsjgIahLhQSbkSdMH1YjtdwCg8Ach pnc/4Og0ZUk9jr+no30lNXQ= =m7KA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jan Engelhardt

17:45

On Oct 17 2007 16:01, G T Smith wrote:

...

You do not need dd (or mount), tar with with the DVD/CD device name as target does it nicely for reading (and writing). I would expect multi-volume tar to work in the same way as it would with a tape device in this scenario...

That only works with certain writers and discs. DVD+RW for sure, DVD-RAM. No idea about DVD+R. CD-RW in packet mode maybe. Use of pktcdvd is advised because its buffering is just advantageous (too lazy to search for details), and it may (or may not - who knows) solve the Read-Only problem. Stupid DVD drives die after exactly 2 years and 1 month, and I've hit that timespan again so can't check.

...

One can effectively treat a writeable DVD/CD as datastream media (i.e. like a tape Basically the track layout is the same as that of a vinyl record, a long spiral, not a block and sector layout like a floppy or HD..).

But when not in packet mode, you need to update the TOC. And the kernel does not do that for you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Bolt

18:11

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Jan Engelhardt wrote:-

...

On Oct 17 2007 16:01, G T Smith wrote:

...
You do not need dd (or mount), tar with with the DVD/CD device name as target does it nicely for reading (and writing). I would expect multi-volume tar to work in the same way as it would with a tape device in this scenario...

That only works with certain writers and discs. DVD+RW for sure, DVD-RAM. No idea about DVD+R.

Doesn't work with DVD+R, and I'd assume it would fail with a DVD-R as well. Would probably work with DVD-RW, but don't have any to use as a test.

...

CD-RW in packet mode maybe.

Doesn't work directly with a CDRW.

...

Use of pktcdvd is advised because its buffering is just advantageous (too lazy to search for details), and it may (or may not - who knows) solve the Read-Only problem.

...

Stupid DVD drives die after exactly 2 years and 1 month, and I've hit that timespan again so can't check.

Not noticed that. I still have an old 4x DVD writer that still works. Only replaced it to get a faster writer. The replacement, OTOH, did die and was replaced by another DVD writer that handles DVD-RAM. That's been fine, so far, but it's still less than a couple of years old. Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ 100Mnodes RC5-72 @ 15Mkeys SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | RISC OS 3.11 | RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

G T Smith

18:31

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jan Engelhardt wrote:

...

On Oct 17 2007 16:01, G T Smith wrote:

...
You do not need dd (or mount), tar with with the DVD/CD device name as target does it nicely for reading (and writing). I would expect multi-volume tar to work in the same way as it would with a tape device in this scenario...

That only works with certain writers and discs. DVD+RW for sure, DVD-RAM. No idea about DVD+R. CD-RW in packet mode maybe. Use of pktcdvd is advised because its buffering is just advantageous (too lazy to search for details), and it may (or may not - who knows) solve the Read-Only problem.

Stupid DVD drives die after exactly 2 years and 1 month, and I've hit that timespan again so can't check.

Yep, the drives are almost as disposable as the media :-)

...

...
One can effectively treat a writeable DVD/CD as datastream media (i.e. like a tape Basically the track layout is the same as that of a vinyl record, a long spiral, not a block and sector layout like a floppy or HD..).

But when not in packet mode, you need to update the TOC. And the kernel does not do that for you.

Tar was originally designed to work with tapes where this is kind of table of contents issue is best handled differently, so I do not think this is an issue with raw tar format. I hear some have managed to mount DVD media as read write filestore but I have never suceeded with my attempts. I think you a right in saying it is only certain hardware which will allow this, and I would expect problems with write once media, and agree that DVD+RW in the absence of DVD-RAM is the most data friendly medium. Packet writing would be really nice, but again not all hardware has reliable support... multimedia burners do not have worry about this stuff but for data burners this is highly desirable... I am a bit bemused by my observation that my old device (now having done its 2years and 1 month) worked with tar -c, but my new device does not work with it (only writes first block) but it will write with tar -cz I do get an I/O error on retrieving data that looks like it is probably an EOF/EOS related error and I can still retrieve data, but I must admit I prefer to use growisofs as it does a couple of useful checks so I am less likely to do something silly like zap an iso image through absent mindedness. - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHFlUXasN0sSnLmgIRAnr2AKDLtbrwafCyM+8lpGF2Vyl7wuwiRQCZAfqB yOoRuGleb2F95WAuQfd0foc= =j+Rj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David Bolt

17:46

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, G T Smith wrote:- <snip>

...

OK, on my old and now dead DVD device this worked with -c (dunno why suspect it was rather slow so one could get a constant data stream)...

Does not work on the newer replacement without -cz and then unreliably (get an I/O error)..but files are extractable, so this seems to be hardware related...

I'll try a test on another system later to find out if it's the DVD drive that's causing the problem, or possibly something to do with the Mac hardware.

...

still can read tar archive directly however...

Same here. Writing the tar using growisofs works just fine, and can be read back using /dev/hdc . Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ 100Mnodes RC5-72 @ 15Mkeys SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | RISC OS 3.11 | RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Anders Johansson

17:49

On Wednesday 17 October 2007 17:01:18 G T Smith wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
The Tuesday 2007-10-16 at 13:18 -0400, Jorge Fábregas wrote:

...
Hello guys,

<snip>

...
It would also be possible to burn the tar file "raw", meaning absolutely no directory overhead:

growisofs -Z /dev/dvd=sometarfile.tar -dvd-compat -speed=8

this way you can burn the 4700 MB. Of course, reading it back needs a little trick (use dd, not mount).

You do not need dd (or mount), tar with with the DVD/CD device name as target does it nicely for reading (and writing). I would expect multi-volume tar to work in the same way as it would with a tape device in this scenario...

One can effectively treat a writeable DVD/CD as datastream media (i.e. like a tape Basically the track layout is the same as that of a vinyl record, a long spiral, not a block and sector layout like a floppy or HD..).

Only if you have packet-cd installed and configured. And I believe even then it will only work with CD-RW. In general, you always need software to write to a disc, and other than packet-cd, that isn't built into the kernel Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

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Anders Johansson
Bob S
Carlos E. R.
David Bolt
G T Smith
Greg Freemyer
Jan Engelhardt
Jorge Fábregas
Patrick Shanahan
Sunny