[opensuse] openSUSE 11.0 and the Non-ready KDE4
Hi all ! Just installed openSUSE 11.0, with a KDE 4 desktop, and I can say that it is not ready. Not only it is full of bugs and crashes, but it is also lacks features. Very likely, that KDE 4 will not be ready for openSUSE 11.0 final. It is highly unlikely that even KDE 4.1 will be stable-enough and feature complete for day-to-day usage. Please provide an option to choose KDE3 desktop during setup. Otherwise all KDE users will be in big trouble with openSUSE 11. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday, 11. February 2008 12:10:26 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Not only it is full of bugs and crashes, but it is also lacks features.
Did you report those? Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Alexey Eremenko schreef: | Hi all ! | | Just installed openSUSE 11.0, with a KDE 4 desktop, and I can say that | it is not ready. | | Not only it is full of bugs and crashes, but it is also lacks | features. Very likely, that KDE 4 will not be ready for openSUSE 11.0 | final. | It is highly unlikely that even KDE 4.1 will be stable-enough and | feature complete for day-to-day usage. I fully agree to this... Simple right-click options like 'pack', lack.. It looks much better, but it is far from 'ready'. | | Please provide an option to choose KDE3 desktop during setup. | Otherwise all KDE users will be in big trouble with openSUSE 11. | Big trouble is an option, as the special effects are indeed very special: total black desktop, with *no* options left... There is no possibility to undo that change.. I have to reinstall, to continue testing.. ;-) - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.24-3-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha2 ~ KDE: 3.5.8 "release 39" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHsDDxX5/X5X6LpDgRAs5JAJ4rV3xLshOeOaRBU/bPo5nBAkFTRgCfQRbI cLDDb7776deK4JV1FQzKQ54= =knFz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Feb 11, 2008 9:10 AM, Alexey Eremenko <al4321@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all !
Just installed openSUSE 11.0, with a KDE 4 desktop, and I can say that it is not ready.
Not only it is full of bugs and crashes, but it is also lacks features. Very likely, that KDE 4 will not be ready for openSUSE 11.0 final. It is highly unlikely that even KDE 4.1 will be stable-enough and feature complete for day-to-day usage.
Please, fill bug reports so they can work with it.
Please provide an option to choose KDE3 desktop during setup. Otherwise all KDE users will be in big trouble with openSUSE 11.
I think this feature is in the plans.
-- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov"
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On Monday 11 February 2008 03:10:26 am Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Hi all !
Just installed openSUSE 11.0, with a KDE 4 desktop, and I can say that it is not ready.
Not only it is full of bugs and crashes, but it is also lacks features.
Meh - how many crashes did it have for you? It looks pretty, but not very usable. :P
Very likely, that KDE 4 will not be ready for openSUSE 11.0 final.
I dunno - Jolt Cola can do wonders to an Operating System...
It is highly unlikely that even KDE 4.1 will be stable-enough and feature complete for day-to-day usage.
No - we're gonna have to wait for KDE 5.0, as it will be an odd-numbered version.
Please provide an option to choose KDE3 desktop during setup. Otherwise all KDE users will be in big trouble with openSUSE 11.
I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution point version such as 11.0. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Aaron Kulkis schreef: | Kai Ponte wrote: | |> I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution | > point version such as 11.0. (Beagle??) | 10.1 YOU and zmd! | | Right, was that pushed, or were the testers not believed? SuSE is going for the newest.. KDE4 has a realistic chance to be usefull. Compared with the start, it has gone pretty quick to this state.. It is impossible to get all bugs out, everybody knows this.. To get it realy tested, and to win space on the CD, which installs about 2,5GB(?am i correct?), it is keen to force it upon us (to use and test it i guess.) First sight and opinion are often crucial to decide whether one likes or dislikes something.... Personaly i do not like the pretty 'large' icons on the desktop, it reminds me of toys for children, not that i do not like toys or children, but in the previous you can configure them to take any size you want...I guess this will be corrected before the final... The approach to be more simple i like a lot... That does not mean, it has to be gigantic to be simple... Small can also be simple... We just have to get the useability debugged as much as possible, and as we all know, the personal 'Look and Feel', toys must be without hazzard to use, not only for the ones that come to look at the 'new opensuse' for the first time, but in the first place for ourselves.... Because i only have 24 hours in a day, and it seems somebody somewhere took a few hours, by taking few minutes here and there, so it looks i have only 21-22 hours left. I stopped smoking, which gained me an hour at least, sleep less, but still, i don't know how time plays tricks on you? Anyway, lets test, and debug... ;) - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.24-3-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 11.0 (x86_64) Alpha2 ~ KDE: 3.5.8 "release 39" ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.16-0.2-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHsXmyX5/X5X6LpDgRAmzmAJ93KK4/hBUBuQwSV0Hw5LOupZsETACgoi4v r4ws1TWUpkxCNtxLXIGbfGM= =5vKA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Feb 11, 2008 5:04 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00@hotpop.com> wrote:
Kai Ponte wrote:
I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution point version such as 11.0.
10.1 YOU and zmd!
Exactly. This is what I fear most. I have *skipped* SUSE Linux 10.1 entirely due to the unresolved bugs in it (in package manager). I wouldn't like to skip openSUSE 11.0 as well, and if KDE4 will be default, it is likely to happen. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Opened bug: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361197 -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, 12. February 2008 19:22:09 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Opened bug: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361197
And again without any details about crashes, bugs and missing feature you want to have found. I'm about to close this bug report as INVALID as you of course have the option to select a KDE3 desktop during DVD installation. Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
And again without any details about crashes, bugs and missing feature you want to have found. I'm about to close this bug report as INVALID as you of course have the option to select a KDE3 desktop during DVD installation.
That's the problem, that I don't have the option to choose KDE 3. No easy way at least. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Feb 12, 2008 9:23 PM, Alexey Eremenko <al4321@gmail.com> wrote:
And again without any details about crashes, bugs and missing feature you want to have found. I'm about to close this bug report as INVALID as you of course have the option to select a KDE3 desktop during DVD installation.
Specific issues u say?
1. Let's start, that there is no Help files for KDE4 2. Konsole 4 crashes (no core files get generated) 3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. 4. Ugly icons. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, 12. February 2008 20:26:23 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
1. Let's start, that there is no Help files for KDE4 2. Konsole 4 crashes (no core files get generated)
And you really think those are not fixable in 4 months...
3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. 4. Ugly icons.
... and these are blockers? Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Feb 12, 2008 9:34 PM, Stephan Binner <stbinner@suse.de> wrote:
On Tuesday, 12. February 2008 20:26:23 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
1. Let's start, that there is no Help files for KDE4 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361245 2. Konsole 4 crashes (no core files get generated) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=360405
And you really think those are not fixable in 4 months... Those are small issues.
3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. 4. Ugly icons.
... and these are blockers? No. But lack of good KDE experience *is* a blocker issue.
-- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. Opened bug: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361251
-- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Another critical problem: Inability to add application shortcut to KDE4 taskbar: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361257 -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
You can dgrag and drop any plasmoids from the plasma config window to the the panel. On Feb 12, 2008 11:39 PM, Alexey Eremenko <al4321@gmail.com> wrote:
Another critical problem: Inability to add application shortcut to KDE4 taskbar: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361257
-- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Feb 12, 2008 10:48 PM, Anton Moiseev <benderamp@gmail.com> wrote:
You can dgrag and drop any plasmoids from the plasma config window to the the panel.
Really ?! And how can I add an _application_, like Konsole4 to taskbar quick-launch ? Not to mention that KDE4 Theming (Window decorations) is poorly visible: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361262 -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Worse yet, even the KDE4 System Settings is crashing: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361266 And some people still think KDE4 is OK ? -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 12 February 2008 22:01:35 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Worse yet, even the KDE4 System Settings is crashing: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361266
And some people still think KDE4 is OK ?
I think so. The build in 11.0 leaves a few things to be desired, but the build in the build service for 10.3 is much better. I expect the 11.0 version to settle down by alpha3, at least as far as the crashes go Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Tuesday 12 February 2008 22:01:35 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Worse yet, even the KDE4 System Settings is crashing: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361266
And some people still think KDE4 is OK ?
I think so. The build in 11.0 leaves a few things to be desired, but the build in the build service for 10.3 is much better. I expect the 11.0 version to settle down by alpha3, at least as far as the crashes go
Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux? Or are you going to do the smart thing? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Feb 13, 2008 3:35 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00@hotpop.com> wrote:
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Tuesday 12 February 2008 22:01:35 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Worse yet, even the KDE4 System Settings is crashing: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361266
And some people still think KDE4 is OK ?
I think so. The build in 11.0 leaves a few things to be desired, but the build in the build service for 10.3 is much better. I expect the 11.0 version to settle down by alpha3, at least as far as the crashes go
Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux?
Or are you going to do the smart thing?
Aaron, The road map says they will decide in April. Whats the rush? Let them at least experiment for another 6 weeks. That is what Alpha code is for isn't it? Greg -- Greg Freemyer Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer First 99 Days Litigation White Paper - http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/99%20Days%20whitepaper.pdf The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Feb 13, 2008 3:35 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00@hotpop.com> wrote:
On Tuesday 12 February 2008 22:01:35 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Worse yet, even the KDE4 System Settings is crashing: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361266
And some people still think KDE4 is OK ? I think so. The build in 11.0 leaves a few things to be desired, but the build in the build service for 10.3 is much better. I expect the 11.0 version to settle down by alpha3, at least as far as the crashes go Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage
Anders Johansson wrote: pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux?
Or are you going to do the smart thing?
Aaron,
The road map says they will decide in April. Whats the rush? Let them at least experiment for another 6 weeks. That is what Alpha code is for isn't it?
For a project as big as KDE, what code is going to go from Alpha to Release quality in less than 2 months. Expecially one which is still MISSING vast expanses of functionality? KDE 4 is not ready for prime time yet, nor will it be ready for prime time 8 weeks from now. This is a complete no-brainer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
For a project as big as KDE, what code is going to go from Alpha to Release quality in less than 2 months. Expecially one which is still MISSING vast expanses of functionality?
KDE 4 is not ready for prime time yet, nor will it be ready for prime time 8 weeks from now.
This is a complete no-brainer.
Absolutely Agree ! The best solution would be allow choice between KDE3/KDE4, just like there is choise between GNOME/KDE in 10.3. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Alexey Eremenko schreef: |> For a project as big as KDE, what code is going to go from Alpha |> to Release quality in less than 2 months. Expecially one which |> is still MISSING vast expanses of functionality? |> |> KDE 4 is not ready for prime time yet, nor will it be ready |> for prime time 8 weeks from now. |> |> This is a complete no-brainer. | | Absolutely Agree ! | | The best solution would be allow choice between KDE3/KDE4, just like | there is choise between GNOME/KDE in 10.3. | The choice will be there, don't be afraid... - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtA9GX5/X5X6LpDgRAnJuAJ9plYP2fqE3abA/fCR3eOB6MpNsVgCdGjRk NdMUCy2azankikX8HM8a/6s= =ER6D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
M9. wrote:
Alexey Eremenko schreef: |> For a project as big as KDE, what code is going to go from Alpha |> to Release quality in less than 2 months. Expecially one which |> is still MISSING vast expanses of functionality? |> |> KDE 4 is not ready for prime time yet, nor will it be ready |> for prime time 8 weeks from now. |> |> This is a complete no-brainer. | | Absolutely Agree ! | | The best solution would be allow choice between KDE3/KDE4, just like | there is choise between GNOME/KDE in 10.3. |
The choice will be there, don't be afraid...
Glad to hear it. Based on the demo of KDE 4 I saw at the Ontario Linux Fest, back in October, what I saw of KDE 4 makes it a show stopper. I wouldn't want an OS where that crap is the only choice. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 James Knott schreef: | M9. wrote: |> |> Alexey Eremenko schreef: |> |> For a project as big as KDE, what code is going to go from Alpha |> |> to Release quality in less than 2 months. Expecially one which |> |> is still MISSING vast expanses of functionality? |> |> |> |> KDE 4 is not ready for prime time yet, nor will it be ready |> |> for prime time 8 weeks from now. |> |> |> |> This is a complete no-brainer. |> | |> | Absolutely Agree ! |> | |> | The best solution would be allow choice between KDE3/KDE4, just like |> | there is choise between GNOME/KDE in 10.3. |> | |> |> The choice will be there, don't be afraid... |> | Glad to hear it. Based on the demo of KDE 4 I saw at the Ontario Linux | Fest, back in October, what I saw of KDE 4 makes it a show stopper. I | wouldn't want an OS where that crap is the only choice. | | Many issues were fixed since then, but there is still a long way to go, before it can match its predessessor... - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtFJbX5/X5X6LpDgRAolmAKDDpnxAv60jiqlW+5yq7DDieANKugCg4EVM Y/17eVpyLKoBDpTWix1nMEQ= =klp7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
M9. wrote:
| Glad to hear it. Based on the demo of KDE 4 I saw at the Ontario Linux | Fest, back in October, what I saw of KDE 4 makes it a show stopper. I | wouldn't want an OS where that crap is the only choice. | |
Many issues were fixed since then, but there is still a long way to go, before it can match its predessessor...
It wasn't the capabilities or performance that bothered me, it appeared to be incredibly dumbed down and extremely ugly. If that's any indication of what KDE 4 is about, I don't want any part of it. If I want my computer to treat me like an idiot, I can always run Windows! Judging from the crowd at the presentation (conducted by Marcel Gagne), I wasn't the only one who felt that way. If what I saw is representative of the final product, it is crap!!! -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 James Knott schreef: | M9. wrote: | |> | Glad to hear it. Based on the demo of KDE 4 I saw at the Ontario Linux |> | Fest, back in October, what I saw of KDE 4 makes it a show stopper. I |> | wouldn't want an OS where that crap is the only choice. |> | |> | |> |> Many issues were fixed since then, but there is still a long way to go, |> before it can match its predessessor... |> | | It wasn't the capabilities or performance that bothered me, it appeared | to be incredibly dumbed down and extremely ugly. If that's any | indication of what KDE 4 is about, I don't want any part of it. If I | want my computer to treat me like an idiot, I can always run Windows! | Judging from the crowd at the presentation (conducted by Marcel Gagne), | I wasn't the only one who felt that way. | | If what I saw is representative of the final product, it is crap!!! | | That is a steel-hard opinion... - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtI3aX5/X5X6LpDgRAsk7AKDHe/FIhwDJEZMDzVdUIbf2IHDYeACeOT+x 3mH4cogQ2C9pVK5KQVkZebc= =0pwr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Have you ever thought that they are trying to make it so anyone can use it not just us geeks? Most people I know just know how to turn on the computer. I've use KDE 4 and I like what I see, but it still needs plenty of work. -----Original Message----- From: M9. [mailto:monkey9@iae.nl] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:52 PM To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] openSUSE 11.0 and the Non-ready KDE4 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 James Knott schreef: | M9. wrote: | |> | Glad to hear it. Based on the demo of KDE 4 I saw at the Ontario Linux |> | Fest, back in October, what I saw of KDE 4 makes it a show stopper. I |> | wouldn't want an OS where that crap is the only choice. |> | |> | |> |> Many issues were fixed since then, but there is still a long way to go, |> before it can match its predessessor... |> | | It wasn't the capabilities or performance that bothered me, it appeared | to be incredibly dumbed down and extremely ugly. If that's any | indication of what KDE 4 is about, I don't want any part of it. If I | want my computer to treat me like an idiot, I can always run Windows! | Judging from the crowd at the presentation (conducted by Marcel Gagne), | I wasn't the only one who felt that way. | | If what I saw is representative of the final product, it is crap!!! | | That is a steel-hard opinion... - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtI3aX5/X5X6LpDgRAsk7AKDHe/FIhwDJEZMDzVdUIbf2IHDYeACeOT+x 3mH4cogQ2C9pVK5KQVkZebc= =0pwr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
James R Thompson wrote:
Have you ever thought that they are trying to make it so anyone can use it not just us geeks? Most people I know just know how to turn on the computer. I've use KDE 4 and I like what I see, but it still needs plenty of work.
And what about the experienced user, who finds such things continually getting in the way? I'm not against such "help" for new, just make it possible to turn the damn thing off. This is one of the reasons I don't care for Windows. There are simply too many things that get in the way of someone who knows what they're doing? Bottom line, if KDE 4 treats me like an idiot and I can't disable that "feature", I won't be using it. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
James R Thompson wrote:
Have you ever thought that they are trying to make it so anyone can use it not just us geeks? Most people I know just know how to turn on the computer. I've use KDE 4 and I like what I see, but it still needs plenty of work.
And what about the experienced user, who finds such things continually getting in the way? I'm not against such "help" for new users, just make it possible to turn the damn thing off. This is one of the reasons I don't care for Windows. There are simply too many things that get in the way of someone who knows what they're doing. Bottom line, if KDE 4 treats me like an idiot and I can't disable that "feature", I won't be using it. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Did you put in a request to have that option added? -----Original Message----- From: James Knott [mailto:james.knott@rogers.com] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:49 PM To: SuSE Linux Subject: Re: [opensuse] openSUSE 11.0 and the Non-ready KDE4 James R Thompson wrote:
Have you ever thought that they are trying to make it so anyone can use it not just us geeks? Most people I know just know how to turn on the computer. I've use KDE 4 and I like what I see, but it still needs plenty of work.
And what about the experienced user, who finds such things continually getting in the way? I'm not against such "help" for new users, just make it possible to turn the damn thing off. This is one of the reasons I don't care for Windows. There are simply too many things that get in the way of someone who knows what they're doing. Bottom line, if KDE 4 treats me like an idiot and I can't disable that "feature", I won't be using it. -- Use OpenOffice.org <http://www.openoffice.org> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
James R Thompson wrote:
Have you ever thought that they are trying to make it so anyone can use it not just us geeks?
Nobody FORCES a user to configure KDE -- people go into the configuration when they want to tune it to what THEY want. There is no "typical user" no matter how much the people at Gnome insist this mythical creature exists. EVERY user has some specific, non-standard need. The more configurability that goes down the tubes, the more non-standard needs are not met. And EVERY user has at least one non-standard need. Taking away configurability also harms the newbie much more than the computer-savvy.
Most people I know just know how to turn on the computer. I've use KDE 4 and I like what I see, but it still needs plenty of work.
-----Original Message----- From: M9. [mailto:monkey9@iae.nl] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:52 PM To: opensuse@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse] openSUSE 11.0 and the Non-ready KDE4
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James Knott schreef: | M9. wrote: | |> | Glad to hear it. Based on the demo of KDE 4 I saw at the Ontario Linux |> | Fest, back in October, what I saw of KDE 4 makes it a show stopper. I |> | wouldn't want an OS where that crap is the only choice. |> | |> | |> |> Many issues were fixed since then, but there is still a long way to go, |> before it can match its predessessor... |> | | It wasn't the capabilities or performance that bothered me, it appeared | to be incredibly dumbed down and extremely ugly. If that's any | indication of what KDE 4 is about, I don't want any part of it. If I | want my computer to treat me like an idiot, I can always run Windows! | Judging from the crowd at the presentation (conducted by Marcel Gagne), | I wasn't the only one who felt that way. | | If what I saw is representative of the final product, it is crap!!! | |
That is a steel-hard opinion...
- --
Have a nice day,
M9. Now, is the only time that exists.
~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFHtI3aX5/X5X6LpDgRAsk7AKDHe/FIhwDJEZMDzVdUIbf2IHDYeACeOT+x 3mH4cogQ2C9pVK5KQVkZebc= =0pwr -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Aaron Kulkis schreef: | James R Thompson wrote: |> Have you ever thought that they are trying to make it so anyone can |> use it |> not just us geeks? | | Nobody FORCES a user to configure KDE -- people go into the | configuration when they want to tune it to what THEY want. | There is no "typical user" no matter how much the people at | Gnome insist this mythical creature exists. EVERY user has | some specific, non-standard need. The more configurability | that goes down the tubes, the more non-standard needs are | not met. And EVERY user has at least one non-standard need. | | Taking away configurability also harms the newbie much more | than the computer-savvy. That is absolutely correct. But now there are two things that have to be done: 1) Useability: Apps must start, work, and not crash, and all must work as much possible together. 2) The desktop must be configuerable, to meet as much as possible anybodies need. So if we work together, to find and kill the bugs, the sooner we have what we want/need/desire, i guess, no? | | > Most people I know just know how to turn on the |> computer. I've use KDE 4 and I like what I see, but it still needs |> plenty |> of work. - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtq1EX5/X5X6LpDgRAjVyAKCtmAEF+C4uzZElyySso63SrpRQRACffTSP w/nPE+eVfrJY3nWg2/alkt8= =8JKQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
M9. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Aaron Kulkis schreef: | James R Thompson wrote: |> Have you ever thought that they are trying to make it so anyone can |> use it |> not just us geeks? | | Nobody FORCES a user to configure KDE -- people go into the | configuration when they want to tune it to what THEY want. | There is no "typical user" no matter how much the people at | Gnome insist this mythical creature exists. EVERY user has | some specific, non-standard need. The more configurability | that goes down the tubes, the more non-standard needs are | not met. And EVERY user has at least one non-standard need. | | Taking away configurability also harms the newbie much more | than the computer-savvy.
That is absolutely correct. But now there are two things that have to be done: 1) Useability: Apps must start, work, and not crash, and all must work as much possible together. 2) The desktop must be configuerable, to meet as much as possible anybodies need.
So if we work together, to find and kill the bugs, the sooner we have what we want/need/desire, i guess, no?
Righto! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu 14 February 08 13:36, James R Thompson wrote: <SNIP> Please don't top-post. -- "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin Religion - it's not just for breakfast anymore...murderers, dictators, child molesters and all other similar ilk use it daily too! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 14 February 2008, James Knott said:
M9. wrote:
| Glad to hear it. Based on the demo of KDE 4 I saw at the Ontario Linux | Fest, back in October, what I saw of KDE 4 makes it a show stopper. I | wouldn't want an OS where that crap is the only choice.
Many issues were fixed since then, but there is still a long way to go, before it can match its predessessor...
It wasn't the capabilities or performance that bothered me, it appeared to be incredibly dumbed down and extremely ugly.
I tried to point this out in a few posts late last year but have been a bit quiet on the lists lately: the lack of configurability of the KDE 4.0 'desktop' is not down to a design decision to dumb down KDE^W^W^Walienate all our users. Nor is the default colour scheme brown. It's just a temporary, superficial regression. The underlying configurability mechanisms still present but the config UI was not done in time for 4.0.0. Please don't read anything else into it. If you see any specific things that you fear are unfixably dumbed down please list them here and I'll respond in detail. HTH Will -- Desktop Engineer KDE Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Will Stephenson wrote:
On Thursday 14 February 2008, James Knott said:
M9. wrote:
| Glad to hear it. Based on the demo of KDE 4 I saw at the Ontario Linux | Fest, back in October, what I saw of KDE 4 makes it a show stopper. I | wouldn't want an OS where that crap is the only choice.
Many issues were fixed since then, but there is still a long way to go, before it can match its predessessor... It wasn't the capabilities or performance that bothered me, it appeared to be incredibly dumbed down and extremely ugly.
I tried to point this out in a few posts late last year but have been a bit quiet on the lists lately: the lack of configurability of the KDE 4.0 'desktop' is not down to a design decision to dumb down KDE^W^W^Walienate all our users. Nor is the default colour scheme brown.
It's just a temporary, superficial regression. The underlying configurability mechanisms still present but the config UI was not done in time for 4.0.0. Please don't read anything else into it.
Keep on plugging away at the code. I'll be glad to see the day when I can replace KDE 3 with KDE 4 with complete confidence.
If you see any specific things that you fear are unfixably dumbed down please list them here and I'll respond in detail.
Just as long as KDE doesn't take the GNOME mentality that "nobody needs to change configuration settings, so let's just remove them." -- that was when I totally gave up on GNOME as a desktop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
M9. wrote:
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Alexey Eremenko schreef: |> For a project as big as KDE, what code is going to go from Alpha |> to Release quality in less than 2 months. Expecially one which |> is still MISSING vast expanses of functionality? |> |> KDE 4 is not ready for prime time yet, nor will it be ready |> for prime time 8 weeks from now. |> |> This is a complete no-brainer. | | Absolutely Agree ! | | The best solution would be allow choice between KDE3/KDE4, just like | there is choise between GNOME/KDE in 10.3. |
The choice will be there, don't be afraid...
But which is going to be the default? Something that is mature and debugged, or something which is flashy, but incomplete and buggy? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Aaron Kulkis schreef: | M9. wrote: |> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- |> Hash: SHA1 |> |> |> |> Alexey Eremenko schreef: |> |> For a project as big as KDE, what code is going to go from Alpha |> |> to Release quality in less than 2 months. Expecially one which |> |> is still MISSING vast expanses of functionality? |> |> |> |> KDE 4 is not ready for prime time yet, nor will it be ready |> |> for prime time 8 weeks from now. |> |> |> |> This is a complete no-brainer. |> | |> | Absolutely Agree ! |> | |> | The best solution would be allow choice between KDE3/KDE4, just like |> | there is choise between GNOME/KDE in 10.3. |> | |> |> The choice will be there, don't be afraid... | | But which is going to be the default? | | Something that is mature and debugged, or something | which is flashy, but incomplete and buggy? | | If done correctly, there will be no default, just as KDE and GNOME. But i also understand the eagerness to get KDE4 somwhere, to be able to go on. Much work is allready done, and if it is not on the map, it will not be tested. I think it is rather dapper, to throw this virgin before the lions... The team can be so demoralized by masses moving away from deflating quality and workability, the project will die, and never relive again. For me, i want to give the team a fair chance to show what they are capable off. But as i installed KDE A2 x86_64 CD again yesterday, for the third time, i had to throw away .kde again, because the replacement for kicker, i do not know its name, vanished again, not to come back... The install-source factory could be saved, and i zypped dup. KDE3 was pulled in. No deps probs this time, download and install went very smooth. Sax2 is more broken than ever, and spammed xorg.conf with an endless list of non-existing resolutions like: "1440x9001440x900", took me ages to delete all that crap. Hope it works now, but previous times i did this it did not so hope is the only thing i've got. I installed thunderbird, but was not able to set up an account, because of hundreds of error messages: error you have to set up a real e-mail adress, that would not go away, forced me to shut down and go to sleep. As useualy, the grub entrances to my other system, 10.3 were gone, but this time i saved the menulst, and now i can enter them both again. KDE4 is at alpha2 state. Which could mean there's hope also for that... (the only thing that realy works is: working their buts off to kill the bugs, and not wait a minute to start killing them.. ;) - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtXahX5/X5X6LpDgRAkV7AJ9YnFNYFijmhbNw6S0G/COxjev4WQCgkg7r k2xH7qTft/q9Cbi8DzPegfE= =nuxG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 12:35:04 pm Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Anders Johansson wrote:
Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux?
Aaron: you're not a software developer are you? Just a hunch. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux?
you're not a software developer are you?
I'm a BETA tester, so he is correct. KDE4 works like Alpha version. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 10:56:11 pm Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage
pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux?
you're not a software developer are you?
I'm a BETA tester, so he is correct. KDE4 works like Alpha version.
The comment was made to Aaron. 11 is now an alpha version. It behaves exactly as I would expect and I see no reason to be out there bashing the developers for a product that hasn't even been released yet. Having been doing software development since '79 and professionally since '93, I know this is the path one takes. You put the version out there - call them alpha, beta, RCx, whatever - and test the crap out of them until you get something workable. Hopefully, the Novell and SUSE devs will have it all worked out by the time RC1 comes around. At this time we're looking at an *Alpha* code that is expected to have bugs and other interaction issues. Even though KDE 4.0 is released, we've yet to see KDE 4.0 (final) in openSUSE 11.0 until these Alpha versions. There will be interaction issues and they may (or may not) be able to complete these by release time. As oft stated, they'll make the decision as to go forward in a month or so. I'll be the first to start a flamefest on an application that doesn't work the way it should (Zypper under 10.0 and Beagle for example) but there's no basis for making gripes about releasing buggy alpha software, since it is expected to be buggy. If you (or Aaron) don't like how 11.0A2 works, then get yerselves on the Factory mailing lists (http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate/Mailinglists#Development_Lists) and start discussing there how you will help with the effort. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu 14 February 08 07:37, Kai Ponte wrote:
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 10:56:11 pm Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage
pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux?
you're not a software developer are you?
I'm a BETA tester, so he is correct. KDE4 works like Alpha version.
The comment was made to Aaron.
But you didn't *answer* the question, you just had a snarky remark.
expected to have bugs and other interaction issues. Even though KDE 4.0 is released, we've yet to see KDE 4.0 (final) in openSUSE 11.0 until these Alpha versions. There will be interaction issues and they may (or may not) be able to complete these by release time.
*That*, was a better answer. It doesn't completely answer his question, since as far as I know you're not an Opensuse dev, but it's a start at least. -- "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin Religion - it's not just for breakfast anymore...murderers, dictators, child molesters and all other similar ilk use it daily too! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte wrote:
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 10:56:11 pm Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage
pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux?
you're not a software developer are you? I'm a BETA tester, so he is correct. KDE4 works like Alpha version.
The comment was made to Aaron.
11 is now an alpha version. It behaves exactly as I would expect and I see no reason to be out there bashing the developers for a product that hasn't even been released yet.
I'm not bashing the KDE devs. I'm just saying that for anyone to expect them to do turn KDE 4 from Alpha-level to release quality by the time of SuSE's 11.0 decision date (first week of April) is just completely unrealistic. As far as I know, KDE does not have any full-time devs on the payroll. That means that the devs are all doing something else to earn a paycheck during the day.
Having been doing software development since '79 and professionally since '93, I know this is the path one takes. You put the version out there - call them alpha, beta, RCx, whatever - and test the crap out of them until you get something workable.
Hopefully, the Novell and SUSE devs will have it all worked out by the time RC1 comes around. At this time we're looking at an *Alpha* code that is expected to have bugs and other interaction issues. Even though KDE 4.0 is
Exactly. It's part of the development process.
released, we've yet to see KDE 4.0 (final) in openSUSE 11.0 until these Alpha versions. There will be interaction issues and they may (or may not) be able to complete these by release time. As oft stated, they'll make the decision as to go forward in a month or so.
I'll be the first to start a flamefest on an application that doesn't work the way it should (Zypper under 10.0 and Beagle for example) but there's no basis for making gripes about releasing buggy alpha software, since it is expected to be buggy.
The point is, it's NOT going to be a production-ready desktop by the SuSE 11.0 decision date (April 7th or so). I have no problem with including it. But unless a miracle occurs, the wise choice is to make the default KDE desktop KDE 3, or else you're going to burn a lot of first-time users -- who will then either not trust SuSE (if coming from another distro) or not trust Linux period (if coming from Windows).
If you (or Aaron) don't like how 11.0A2 works, then get yerselves on the Factory mailing lists (http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate/Mailinglists#Development_Lists) and start discussing there how you will help with the effort.
It's been too long since I've programmed anything of that sort of size. I would end up introducing more problems than I solved. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 14 February 2008 17:44:57 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
As far as I know, KDE does not have any full-time devs on the payroll.
KDE project has not even part-time devs on the payroll.
That means that the devs are all doing something else to earn a paycheck during the day.
You have no clue, there are many devs payed by companies to work on KDE. Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
As far as I know, KDE does not have any full-time devs on the payroll.
Well, AFAIK, both KDE .e.v, Novell, and Trolltech (Nokia) _have_ full time KDE developers on the payroll. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday, 15. February 2008 11:26:15 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
KDE .e.v, _have_ full time KDE developers on the payroll.
You really should read the mail you reply to and not just remove its content. Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Binner wrote:
On Thursday 14 February 2008 17:44:57 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
As far as I know, KDE does not have any full-time devs on the payroll.
KDE project has not even part-time devs on the payroll.
That means that the devs are all doing something else to earn a paycheck during the day.
You have no clue,
Ok, so give me a clue...
there are many devs payed by companies to work on KDE.
How many? And are there enough to get KDE 4 up to release quality by April 7? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 15 February 2008 18:35:54 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
there are many devs payed by companies to work on KDE. How many?
Is there a number which would make you stop your fudding?
And are there enough to get KDE 4 up to release quality by April 7?
Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Binner wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2008 18:35:54 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
there are many devs payed by companies to work on KDE. How many?
Is there a number which would make you stop your fudding?
I'm just ASKING QUESTIONS which you are trying to avoid.
And are there enough to get KDE 4 up to release quality by April 7?
Bye,
Your Non-answer in an attempt to avoid the question indicates a complete lack of confidence that KDE 4 will be anywhere close to release quality in time. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 16 February 2008 02:58:48 pm Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Stephan Binner wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2008 18:35:54 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
there are many devs payed by companies to work on KDE.
How many?
Is there a number which would make you stop your fudding?
I'm just ASKING QUESTIONS which you are trying to avoid.
And are there enough to get KDE 4 up to release quality by April 7?
Bye,
Your Non-answer in an attempt to avoid the question indicates a complete lack of confidence that KDE 4 will be anywhere close to release quality in time.
Aaron, please try to use KDE4 and regulary update to newer version to see how fast it is going forward. I have feeling that developers are working 3 shifts to make it better. More valid comments and bug reports will be of course helpful to see it as default in 11.0. BTW, there is opensuse-kde@opensuse.org where we can keep KDE related discussions in one place. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 16 February 2008, Aaron Kulkis said:
Stephan Binner wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2008 18:35:54 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
there are many devs payed by companies to work on KDE.
How many?
Is there a number which would make you stop your fudding?
I'm just ASKING QUESTIONS which you are trying to avoid.
Answer: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_Team . The 5th bullet point in the list doesn't apply to the first group of KDE Team Members but the guys from the other teams who have some degree of interest/involvement in KDE.
And are there enough to get KDE 4 up to release quality by April 7?
Bye,
Your Non-answer in an attempt to avoid the question indicates a complete lack of confidence that KDE 4 will be anywhere close to release quality in time.
Nope, he always answers questions with another question. It keeps us on our toes. If you ask anyone in the KDE project who does the detail work of dotting the i's, crossing the t's, fixing things that nobody else realised were obvious until fixed, and generally improving KDE's release quality, chances are Stephan Binner's name will be near the top of that list. Will -- Desktop Engineer KDE Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Will Stephenson wrote:
On Saturday 16 February 2008, Aaron Kulkis said:
Stephan Binner wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2008 18:35:54 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
there are many devs payed by companies to work on KDE.
How many? Is there a number which would make you stop your fudding? I'm just ASKING QUESTIONS which you are trying to avoid.
Answer: http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_Team . The 5th bullet point in the list doesn't apply to the first group of KDE Team Members but the guys from the other teams who have some degree of interest/involvement in KDE.
And are there enough to get KDE 4 up to release quality by April 7? Bye, Your Non-answer in an attempt to avoid the question indicates a complete lack of confidence that KDE 4 will be anywhere close to release quality in time.
Nope, he always answers questions with another question. It keeps us on our toes.
Not in this case, I'm not buying that lameness. It was an accusation that I was fudding when all I was doing was trying to find out information relevent to the conversation. His 'have you stopped beating your wife yet?" question is just a lame attempt to avoid answering my question.
If you ask anyone in the KDE project who does the detail work of dotting the i's, crossing the t's, fixing things that nobody else realised were obvious until fixed, and generally improving KDE's release quality, chances are Stephan Binner's name will be near the top of that list.
And what does ANY of that have to do with my question of how many devs are working on KDE 4?
Will
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 16 February 2008 12:25:55 pm Stephan Binner wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2008 18:35:54 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
there are many devs payed by companies to work on KDE.
How many?
Is there a number which would make you stop your fudding?
fudding - heh, I like that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
And are there enough to get KDE 4 up to release quality by April 7?
I admit, I was a bit skeptical last time I looked at kde4, which was a mess. I just installed the latest kde4 packages to take a look today and am sold on the ida that if progress continues at this rate , kde4 will be in fine shape by the time suse 11 ships. It's very nice so far, I'll keep using it, putting it through its paces and see how it goes. Kudos to the kde 4 devs and the suse packagers. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte escribió:
(Zypper under 10.0 and Beagle for example)
There was no zypper in 10.0 . -- "Morality is merely an interpretation of certain phenomena — more precisely, a misinterpretation." - Friedrich Nietzsche Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 4:56 AM, Alexey Eremenko <al4321@gmail.com> wrote:
Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux?
you're not a software developer are you?
I'm a BETA tester, so he is correct. KDE4 works like Alpha version.
You're not a software developer are you? Let the alphas for the alpha testers... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte wrote:
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 12:35:04 pm Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Anders Johansson wrote:
Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux?
Aaron: you're not a software developer are you?
Myself -- no. I used to do a lot of programming years ago, and in recent years, I've worked in close association with developers, but no, at the present, I'm not a software developer. However, what does that have to do with the impossibility of KDE 4 going from incomplete, alpha status to production ready in only 7 weeks? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 21:35:04 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Tuesday 12 February 2008 22:01:35 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Worse yet, even the KDE4 System Settings is crashing: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361266
And some people still think KDE4 is OK ?
I think so. The build in 11.0 leaves a few things to be desired, but the build in the build service for 10.3 is much better. I expect the 11.0 version to settle down by alpha3, at least as far as the crashes go
Is the 11.0 Build going to default to this alpha-stage pile, and give newbies (who don't know better) a totally HORRIBLE impression of both Suse and Linux?
Or are you going to do the smart thing?
I'm getting really bored by your whining How many bugs have you filed, so it can get better? Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Aaron Kulkis escribió:
Or are you going to do the smart thing?
We can all do things better if users stop wasting time ranting and actually start doing something productive for the distribution. -- "Morality is merely an interpretation of certain phenomena — more precisely, a misinterpretation." - Friedrich Nietzsche Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Worse yet, even the KDE4 System Settings is crashing: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361266
And some people still think KDE4 is OK ?
The KDE devs need to be hit witha clue-bat. This should be called KDE 4.0 Alpha. Significantly missing functionality and crashes of critical software (konsole) means not ready for Beta-test designation. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 21:33:27 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Worse yet, even the KDE4 System Settings is crashing: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=361266
And some people still think KDE4 is OK ?
The KDE devs need to be hit witha clue-bat.
No, you do
This should be called KDE 4.0 Alpha.
Significantly missing functionality and crashes of critical software (konsole) means not ready for Beta-test designation.
The missing functionality I can (partly) agree with, but the crashes are mostly an 11.0 phenomenon. I've been running KDE4 on 10.3 from the build service for a while now, and while I have seen a few problems, mostly it's been working very well. Certainly not the crash fest that seems to be going on in 11.0 (which by the way *is* an alpha) I personally suspect the new version of gcc Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Feb 13, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 21:33:27 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
The KDE devs need to be hit witha clue-bat.
No, you do
This should be called KDE 4.0 Alpha.
Significantly missing functionality and crashes of critical software (konsole) means not ready for Beta-test designation.
The missing functionality I can (partly) agree with, but the crashes are mostly an 11.0 phenomenon. I've been running KDE4 on 10.3 from the build service for a while now, and while I have seen a few problems, mostly it's been working very well. Certainly not the crash fest that seems to be going on in 11.0 (which by the way *is* an alpha)
I personally suspect the new version of gcc
Anders
I agree. Obviously, Aaron has some fascination with verbally threatening developers he doesn't agree with... but anyway. I haven't run 11.0 alphas yet, I'm probably going to start with Alpha 3, but I did run 4.0 under 10.3 and I thought it worked pretty well. Missing features, I saw some. I'm not typically a KDE user, but some I did see. I'm optimistic about KDE 4.x's 11.0 progress and I think it will work well when the release is here. Of course, I'm also a Ron Paul supporter, so maybe some optimism is running abundant right now...
-- Madness takes its toll
Ain't that the truth... -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy | Public Mail: <kevin@kevinsword.com> Hope for America: Ron Paul for President <RonPaul2008.com> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kevin Dupuy wrote:
On Feb 13, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 21:33:27 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
The KDE devs need to be hit witha clue-bat.
No, you do
This should be called KDE 4.0 Alpha.
Significantly missing functionality and crashes of critical software (konsole) means not ready for Beta-test designation.
The missing functionality I can (partly) agree with, but the crashes are mostly an 11.0 phenomenon. I've been running KDE4 on 10.3 from the build service for a while now, and while I have seen a few problems, mostly it's been working very well. Certainly not the crash fest that seems to be going on in 11.0 (which by the way *is* an alpha)
I personally suspect the new version of gcc
Anders
I agree. Obviously, Aaron has some fascination with verbally threatening developers he doesn't agree with... but anyway. I haven't run 11.0 alphas yet, I'm probably going to start with Alpha 3, but I did run 4.0 under 10.3 and I thought it worked pretty well. Missing features, I saw some. I'm not typically a KDE user, but some I did see.
You obviously have no sense of humor. "hitting users with clue-bats" has been a part of computer-science and computer-engineering lore for decades.
I'm optimistic about KDE 4.x's 11.0 progress and I think it will work well when the release is here. Of course, I'm also a Ron Paul supporter, so maybe some optimism is running abundant right now...
I have more faith in Ron Paul than I do in the KDE's devs (or those of any other project of similar size) taking an incomplete alpha-stage project to release quality in 8 weeks. It just is NOT going to happen. "Hey Boss, sorry I didn't come in to work last week... I was at home trying to get KDE 4 whipped into shape in time for the SuSE 11.0 release." "Why are you here? We fired you 3 days ago." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 14 February 2008 07:18:24 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Kevin Dupuy wrote:
On Feb 13, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 21:33:27 Aaron Kulkis wrote:
The KDE devs need to be hit witha clue-bat.
No, you do
This should be called KDE 4.0 Alpha.
Significantly missing functionality and crashes of critical software (konsole) means not ready for Beta-test designation.
The missing functionality I can (partly) agree with, but the crashes are mostly an 11.0 phenomenon. I've been running KDE4 on 10.3 from the build service for a while now, and while I have seen a few problems, mostly it's been working very well. Certainly not the crash fest that seems to be going on in 11.0 (which by the way *is* an alpha)
I personally suspect the new version of gcc
Anders
I agree. Obviously, Aaron has some fascination with verbally threatening developers he doesn't agree with... but anyway. I haven't run 11.0 alphas yet, I'm probably going to start with Alpha 3, but I did run 4.0 under 10.3 and I thought it worked pretty well. Missing features, I saw some. I'm not typically a KDE user, but some I did see.
You obviously have no sense of humor.
"hitting users with clue-bats" has been a part of computer-science and computer-engineering lore for decades.
I'm optimistic about KDE 4.x's 11.0 progress and I think it will work well when the release is here. Of course, I'm also a Ron Paul supporter, so maybe some optimism is running abundant right now...
I have more faith in Ron Paul than I do in the KDE's devs (or those of any other project of similar size) taking an incomplete alpha-stage project to release quality in 8 weeks.
It just is NOT going to happen.
"Hey Boss, sorry I didn't come in to work last week... I was at home trying to get KDE 4 whipped into shape in time for the SuSE 11.0 release."
"Why are you here? We fired you 3 days ago."
Which part of "get a clue" didn't you understand. Stop whining and start filing bugs Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Anders Johansson escribió:
I personally suspect the new version of gcc
do you have any real proof that the compiler is the thing to blame ? otherwise your suspicions are just BS. -- "Morality is merely an interpretation of certain phenomena — more precisely, a misinterpretation." - Friedrich Nietzsche Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Anders Johansson escribió:
I personally suspect the new version of gcc do you have any real proof that the compiler is the thing to blame ? otherwise your suspicions are just BS. Does "BS" stand for bull shit ? Is this the language desired on this list when addressing thoughts expressed by list mates ?
Kind regards Philippe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Philippe Landau wrote:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Anders Johansson escribió:
I personally suspect the new version of gcc do you have any real proof that the compiler is the thing to blame ? otherwise your suspicions are just BS. Does "BS" stand for bull shit ?
Yes
Is this the language desired on this list when addressing thoughts expressed by list mates ?
I think you're over-reacting. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 17 February 2008 05:12:05 pm Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Philippe Landau wrote:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Anders Johansson escribió:
I personally suspect the new version of gcc
do you have any real proof that the compiler is the thing to blame ? otherwise your suspicions are just BS.
Does "BS" stand for bull shit ?
Yes
It seems it is not Batchelor of Science or any of other meanings on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bs
Is this the language desired on this list when addressing thoughts expressed by list mates ?
I think you're over-reacting.
There is a miriad ways to say the same. In some cultures it is not that offending, if at all, but here we have people from many cultures and being careful with language and (offtopic) comments is the way to coexist. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 12 February 2008 11:34:52 am Stephan Binner wrote:
On Tuesday, 12. February 2008 20:26:23 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
1. Let's start, that there is no Help files for KDE4 2. Konsole 4 crashes (no core files get generated)
And you really think those are not fixable in 4 months...
heh - that's why <insert diety here> created caffeine... :P
3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. 4. Ugly icons.
... and these are blockers?
I think the konsole crashes might be. I did notice them originally after install (under virtual box) but haven't seen anything today or yesterday. Hence, I'm unable to file any bug reports. I promise I'll use it more. I've been waitign for KDE 4 since KDE 2 came out. This looks really cool. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte wrote:
On Tuesday 12 February 2008 11:34:52 am Stephan Binner wrote:
On Tuesday, 12. February 2008 20:26:23 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
1. Let's start, that there is no Help files for KDE4 2. Konsole 4 crashes (no core files get generated) And you really think those are not fixable in 4 months...
heh - that's why <insert diety here> created caffeine... :P
3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. 4. Ugly icons. ... and these are blockers?
I think the konsole crashes might be. I did notice them originally after install (under virtual box) but haven't seen anything today or yesterday. Hence, I'm unable to file any bug reports.
I promise I'll use it more. I've been waitign for KDE 4 since KDE 2 came out. This looks really cool.
but if it doesn't FUNCTION properly, all the cool sheetmetal in the world doesn't cover up for the fact that an incomplete vehicle is not fulfilling the customer's expectations. Same goes for software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Feb 13, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Kai Ponte wrote:
I think the konsole crashes might be. I did notice them originally after install (under virtual box) but haven't seen anything today or yesterday. Hence, I'm unable to file any bug reports. I promise I'll use it more. I've been waitign for KDE 4 since KDE 2 came out. This looks really cool.
but if it doesn't FUNCTION properly, all the cool sheetmetal in the world doesn't cover up for the fact that an incomplete vehicle is not fulfilling the customer's expectations.
Same goes for software.
I hate to use the "early alpha SUSE & 4.0 KDE" excuse, but it is still early. I disagree the icons are early, though, even as a normally GNOME user who like the Tango icons, I also really like the Oxygen theme. What icons are ugly to you, Aaron? As far as the no align to grid option, from what I've used of KDE 4 (4.0 installed on 10.3), the icons are supposed to be treated more like the widgets, rather than icons. -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy | Public Mail: <kevin@kevinsword.com> Hope for America: Ron Paul for President <RonPaul2008.com> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kevin Dupuy wrote:
On Feb 13, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Kai Ponte wrote:
I think the konsole crashes might be. I did notice them originally after install (under virtual box) but haven't seen anything today or yesterday. Hence, I'm unable to file any bug reports. I promise I'll use it more. I've been waitign for KDE 4 since KDE 2 came out. This looks really cool.
but if it doesn't FUNCTION properly, all the cool sheetmetal in the world doesn't cover up for the fact that an incomplete vehicle is not fulfilling the customer's expectations.
Same goes for software.
I hate to use the "early alpha SUSE & 4.0 KDE" excuse, but it is still early. I disagree the icons are early, though, even as a normally GNOME user who like the Tango icons, I also really like the Oxygen theme. What icons are ugly to you, Aaron?
I didn't say anything about icons. Eye-candy isn't a sticking point for me. The previously mentioned MISSING FUNCTIONALITY is. And crashing konsole is completely unacceptable. Yes, there's a work-around (xterm, etc), but the newbie user is not going to know that. One thing that this community ALWAYS talks about is the stability and "method of last resort" of the the command line, and thus the added value of having a good CLI in addition to the GUI. Crashing konsole destroys that argument.
As far as the no align to grid option, from what I've used of KDE 4 (4.0 installed on 10.3), the icons are supposed to be treated more like the widgets, rather than icons.
Not the most well thought-through decision there.... :-/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Binner wrote:
On Tuesday, 12. February 2008 20:26:23 Alexey Eremenko wrote:
1. Let's start, that there is no Help files for KDE4 2. Konsole 4 crashes (no core files get generated)
And you really think those are not fixable in 4 months...
3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. 4. Ugly icons.
... and these are blockers?
Is that the FIRST IMPRESSION you want a new user to have of SuSE releases? a) yes B) NO -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Aaron Kulkis schreef: | Stephan Binner wrote: |> On Tuesday, 12. February 2008 20:26:23 Alexey Eremenko wrote: |> |>> 1. Let's start, that there is no Help files for KDE4 |>> 2. Konsole 4 crashes (no core files get generated) |> |> And you really think those are not fixable in 4 months... |> |>> 3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. |>> 4. Ugly icons. |> |> ... and these are blockers? | | Is that the FIRST IMPRESSION you want a new user to | have of SuSE releases? | | a) yes | B) NO c) No opinion ;) | | | - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtBBUX5/X5X6LpDgRAqS9AKCOCI4fmnVDTcUX/zE8htUzxkPhgQCgola7 U5EpADIvyZYylu1k6xWMG6A= =thdv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
M9. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Aaron Kulkis schreef: | Stephan Binner wrote: |> On Tuesday, 12. February 2008 20:26:23 Alexey Eremenko wrote: |> |>> 1. Let's start, that there is no Help files for KDE4 |>> 2. Konsole 4 crashes (no core files get generated) |> |> And you really think those are not fixable in 4 months... |> |>> 3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. |>> 4. Ugly icons. |> |> ... and these are blockers? | | Is that the FIRST IMPRESSION you want a new user to | have of SuSE releases? | | a) yes | B) NO
c) No opinion ;)
Wrong answer. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Aaron Kulkis schreef: | M9. wrote: |> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- |> Hash: SHA1 |> |> |> |> Aaron Kulkis schreef: |> | Stephan Binner wrote: |> |> On Tuesday, 12. February 2008 20:26:23 Alexey Eremenko wrote: |> |> |> |>> 1. Let's start, that there is no Help files for KDE4 |> |>> 2. Konsole 4 crashes (no core files get generated) |> |> |> |> And you really think those are not fixable in 4 months... |> |> |> |>> 3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. |> |>> 4. Ugly icons. |> |> |> |> ... and these are blockers? |> | |> | Is that the FIRST IMPRESSION you want a new user to |> | have of SuSE releases? |> | |> | a) yes |> | B) NO | |> c) No opinion ;) | | Wrong answer. | | That was no answer but an option ;) - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtXg+X5/X5X6LpDgRAru2AKDVe8UrFOSU8Mzwn08j4bR33+SBVQCfc2k4 nhr/ya7FF0r2hEGKXN4Mmhw= =abi5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 12 February 2008 20:26, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
On Feb 12, 2008 9:23 PM, Alexey Eremenko <al4321@gmail.com> wrote:
And again without any details about crashes, bugs and missing feature you want to have found. I'm about to close this bug report as INVALID as you of course have the option to select a KDE3 desktop during DVD installation.
Specific issues u say?
1. Let's start, that there is no Help files for KDE4 2. Konsole 4 crashes (no core files get generated) 3. No "align icon to grid" option in KDE4 Desktop. 4. Ugly icons.
And you are going to put these in the bug report right? If not, he is well within his right to close the report as invalid. Sending a message that a package doesn't work really doesn't help the maintainer provide a fix. Putting them here also does no good as not all the folks at SuSE read this list. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8 8:35pm up 181 days 1:08, 5 users, load average: 2.15, 2.20, 2.20 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Feb 12, 2008 1:13 PM, Alexey Eremenko <al4321@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 11, 2008 5:04 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00@hotpop.com> wrote:
Kai Ponte wrote:
I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution point version such as 11.0.
10.1 YOU and zmd!
Exactly. This is what I fear most. I have *skipped* SUSE Linux 10.1 entirely due to the unresolved bugs in it (in package manager). I wouldn't like to skip openSUSE 11.0 as well, and if KDE4 will be default, it is likely to happen.
You guys are getting paranoid. The YOU / zmd stuff was a special case because of what it does. ie. They handle security releases and SUSE does not provide security releases for the alpha/beta/rc releases. Thus no true testing. (Yes, they did provide a couple small test patches, but it was not much of a test.) KDE4 is being fully tested via the alpha / beta /rc process and it is already in the roadmap to decide on a plan by April. The options are 3.5, 4.0, 4.1 If you want to ensure they make the "right" decision (whatever that is), then you should be making as many real / specific bugzillas as appropriate. That way when April rolls around the team making the decision will know the true status of KDE4, instead of just have a bunch of generic "the sky is falling" comments. Greg -- Greg Freemyer Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer First 99 Days Litigation White Paper - http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/99%20Days%20whitepaper.pdf The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Feb 12, 2008 1:13 PM, Alexey Eremenko <al4321@gmail.com> wrote:
On Feb 11, 2008 5:04 PM, Aaron Kulkis <akulkis00@hotpop.com> wrote:
Kai Ponte wrote:
I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution point version such as 11.0.
10.1 YOU and zmd!
Exactly. This is what I fear most. I have *skipped* SUSE Linux 10.1 entirely due to the unresolved bugs in it (in package manager). I wouldn't like to skip openSUSE 11.0 as well, and if KDE4 will be default, it is likely to happen.
You guys are getting paranoid.
The YOU / zmd stuff was a special case because of what it does. ie. They handle security releases and SUSE does not provide security releases for the alpha/beta/rc releases. Thus no true testing. (Yes, they did provide a couple small test patches, but it was not much of a test.)
Obviously.
KDE4 is being fully tested via the alpha / beta /rc process and it is already in the roadmap to decide on a plan by April. The options are 3.5, 4.0, 4.1
If KDE 4 is in Alpha right now, and missing some of the most fundamental functionality, do you really expect it to be anywhere past Beta in a mere 8 weeks?
If you want to ensure they make the "right" decision (whatever that is), then you should be making as many real / specific bugzillas as appropriate. That way when April rolls around the team making the decision will know the true status of KDE4, instead of just have a bunch of generic "the sky is falling" comments.
I'm not saying that the roof is caving in. I'm saying that it's not even built yet -- and there's another load of scaffolding outside that still has to be put up FIRST.
Greg
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 11. Februar 2008 14:29:13 schrieb Kai Ponte:
On Monday 11 February 2008 03:10:26 am Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Hi all !
Just installed openSUSE 11.0, with a KDE 4 desktop, and I can say that it is not ready.
Not only it is full of bugs and crashes, but it is also lacks features.
Meh - how many crashes did it have for you? It looks pretty, but not very usable. :P
Very likely, that KDE 4 will not be ready for openSUSE 11.0 final.
I dunno - Jolt Cola can do wonders to an Operating System...
It is highly unlikely that even KDE 4.1 will be stable-enough and feature complete for day-to-day usage.
No - we're gonna have to wait for KDE 5.0, as it will be an odd-numbered version.
Please provide an option to choose KDE3 desktop during setup. Otherwise all KDE users will be in big trouble with openSUSE 11.
I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution point version such as 11.0. I don't know when OS 11 is about to release, but I know the release plan for KDE 4.1 says it should be released on the 29th of July, of course, it can be delayed during the Alpha, Beta & RC periode - but let's see what happens ;)
Till then I can only recommend to use as much KDE 4.0.x in your spare time (of course if you've work to be done - then use 3.5.x) and report as many problems as possible against BKO ;) Greetings Michael
On Feb 11, 2008 5:12 PM, M. Skiba <mailinglist@michael-skiba.de> wrote:
Am Montag, 11. Februar 2008 14:29:13 schrieb Kai Ponte:
On Monday 11 February 2008 03:10:26 am Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Hi all !
Just installed openSUSE 11.0, with a KDE 4 desktop, and I can say that it is not ready.
Not only it is full of bugs and crashes, but it is also lacks features.
Meh - how many crashes did it have for you? It looks pretty, but not very usable. :P
Very likely, that KDE 4 will not be ready for openSUSE 11.0 final.
I dunno - Jolt Cola can do wonders to an Operating System...
It is highly unlikely that even KDE 4.1 will be stable-enough and feature complete for day-to-day usage.
No - we're gonna have to wait for KDE 5.0, as it will be an odd-numbered version.
Please provide an option to choose KDE3 desktop during setup. Otherwise all KDE users will be in big trouble with openSUSE 11.
I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution point version such as 11.0. I don't know when OS 11 is about to release, but I know the release plan for KDE 4.1 says it should be released on the 29th of July, of course, it can be delayed during the Alpha, Beta & RC periode - but let's see what happens ;)
Till then I can only recommend to use as much KDE 4.0.x in your spare time (of course if you've work to be done - then use 3.5.x) and report as many problems as possible against BKO ;)
Greetings Michael
OS 11.0 is due out in June. Per the roadmap, they are going to pick the KDE release version by Apr. 7. http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap/11.0 Greg -- Greg Freemyer Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer First 99 Days Litigation White Paper - http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/99%20Days%20whitepaper.pdf The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 11 February 2008 02:24:20 pm Greg Freemyer wrote:
Till then I can only recommend to use as much KDE 4.0.x in your spare time (of course if you've work to be done - then use 3.5.x) and report as many problems as possible against BKO ;)
Greetings Michael
OS 11.0 is due out in June. Per the roadmap, they are going to pick the KDE release version by Apr. 7.
On a positive note - the install script process runs very smooth and looks top notch. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 11 February 2008 05:12:13 pm M. Skiba wrote:
Am Montag, 11. Februar 2008 14:29:13 schrieb Kai Ponte:
On Monday 11 February 2008 03:10:26 am Alexey Eremenko wrote:
Hi all !
Just installed openSUSE 11.0, with a KDE 4 desktop, and I can say that it is not ready.
Not only it is full of bugs and crashes, but it is also lacks features.
Meh - how many crashes did it have for you? It looks pretty, but not very usable. :P
Very likely, that KDE 4 will not be ready for openSUSE 11.0 final.
I dunno - Jolt Cola can do wonders to an Operating System...
It is highly unlikely that even KDE 4.1 will be stable-enough and feature complete for day-to-day usage.
No - we're gonna have to wait for KDE 5.0, as it will be an odd-numbered version.
Please provide an option to choose KDE3 desktop during setup. Otherwise all KDE users will be in big trouble with openSUSE 11.
I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution point version such as 11.0.
I don't know when OS 11 is about to release, but I know the release plan for KDE 4.1 says it should be released on the 29th of July, of course, it can be delayed during the Alpha, Beta & RC periode - but let's see what happens ;)
Till then I can only recommend to use as much KDE 4.0.x in your spare time (of course if you've work to be done - then use 3.5.x) and report as many problems as possible against BKO ;)
Is there a one place,, one bug report somewhere ? where we all just add our comments?? Bob S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 11 February 2008 14:29:13 Kai Ponte wrote:
I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution point version such as 11.0.
SUSE (S.u.S.E. | SuSE | SUSE) has always been early with new KDE releases since day one. Why should this be any different And far more people would complain if it wasn't included Discuss if it should be the default or not, not whether it should be included, because it should and it will Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Monday 11 February 2008 14:29:13 Kai Ponte wrote:
I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution point version such as 11.0.
SUSE (S.u.S.E. | SuSE | SUSE) has always been early with new KDE releases since day one. Why should this be any different
And far more people would complain if it wasn't included
Discuss if it should be the default or not, not whether it should be included, because it should and it will
Until KDE 4 has caught up to KDE 3 in functionality and configurability, KDE 3 should remain the default. The last thing I want is my KDE-3 configurations to be lost because KDE-4 doesn't know what to do with them, and then when KDE-4 finally catches up, have to re-do those configurations again. Leave KDE-4 as the non-default until it's ready for prime time. Keeping KDE-4 as optional on a distro as large as OpenSUSE will provide pressure on the KDE devs to keep their eye on preserving current functionality instead of fixating exclusively on eye-candy and other bells and whistles which maybe amusing, but of no actual value.
Anders
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 12 February 2008 12:55:17 pm Aaron Kulkis wrote:
OpenSUSE will provide pressure on the KDE devs to keep their eye on preserving current functionality instead of fixating exclusively on eye-candy and other bells and whistles which maybe amusing, but of no actual value.
Have you ran it at all? Your comment seems to come from reading other posts, but no own experience. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue 12 February 08 12:55, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Monday 11 February 2008 14:29:13 Kai Ponte wrote:
I doubt they'd release a buggy 4.0 on a major distribution point version such as 11.0.
SUSE (S.u.S.E. | SuSE | SUSE) has always been early with new KDE releases since day one. Why should this be any different
And far more people would complain if it wasn't included
Discuss if it should be the default or not, not whether it should be included, because it should and it will
Until KDE 4 has caught up to KDE 3 in functionality and configurability, KDE 3 should remain the default.
The last thing I want is my KDE-3 configurations to be lost because KDE-4 doesn't know what to do with them, and then when KDE-4 finally catches up, have to re-do those configurations again.
Leave KDE-4 as the non-default until it's ready for prime time. Keeping KDE-4 as optional on a distro as large as OpenSUSE will provide pressure on the KDE devs to keep their eye on preserving current functionality instead of fixating exclusively on eye-candy and other bells and whistles which maybe amusing, but of no actual value.
Agreed to Aaron here. I got 10.3 installed and kalarm is 'kde4'...and doesn't work as simply as it did/does on SuSE9.3. In the OpenSuse 10.3 version, it wants me to write/use some script. If I knew how to code or whatever, great, but since I'm just a plain home user and can't just click a radio button or two and set the time for an alarm with an up/down arrow, I ditched 10.3. (if anyone's going to say 'get an alarm clock', I have one...*my computer*!) Doesn't anyone remember the KISS principle and 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!' ? -- "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin Religion - it's not just for breakfast anymore...murderers, dictators, child molesters and all other similar ilk use it daily too! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 09:34:04 am JB2 wrote:
Agreed to Aaron here. I got 10.3 installed and kalarm is 'kde4'...and doesn't work as simply as it did/does on SuSE9.3. In the OpenSuse 10.3 version, it wants me to write/use some script. If I knew how to code or whatever, great, but since I'm just a plain home user and can't just click a radio button or two and set the time for an alarm with an up/down arrow, I ditched 10.3. (if anyone's going to say 'get an alarm clock', I have one...*my computer*!)
Doesn't anyone remember the KISS principle and 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!' ?
They would not start new line if old KDE3 would be easy to fix - adjust to modern times. The functionality will be added on the go, as it happens on each new update. What they missed is to underscore very early that KDE4 is not next polish of KDE3, but rather new project that will fit better to todays hardware and user expectations, but most of the guys are developers, not marketing specialists, which is IMHO good. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed 13 February 08 21:09, Rajko M. wrote:
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 09:34:04 am JB2 wrote:
Agreed to Aaron here. I got 10.3 installed and kalarm is 'kde4'...and doesn't work as simply as it did/does on SuSE9.3. In the OpenSuse 10.3 version, it wants me to write/use some script. If I knew how to code or whatever, great, but since I'm just a plain home user and can't just click a radio button or two and set the time for an alarm with an up/down arrow, I ditched 10.3. (if anyone's going to say 'get an alarm clock', I have one...*my computer*!)
Doesn't anyone remember the KISS principle and 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!' ?
They would not start new line if old KDE3 would be easy to fix - adjust to modern times. The functionality will be added on the go, as it happens on each new update.
You somehow missed 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!'. Kalarm worked just fine since SuSE 7.3. Why did anything have to be taken *out* of it? There was nothing wrong with it, it worked extremely well. SuSE 9.3 is modern...just because it's a few years old means it isn't? Funny how 9.3 is working quite well for me and the "modern" 10.3 didn't.
What they missed is to underscore very early that KDE4 is not next polish of KDE3, but rather new project that will fit better to todays hardware and user expectations,
Again, I say 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!'. Kalarm from 7.3 to 9.3 worked well...now it doesn't in 10.3. There was no reason to have changed a thing about it since no one as far as I know or remember never reading about, ever complained about it *not* working. -- "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin Religion - it's not just for breakfast anymore...murderers, dictators, child molesters and all other similar ilk use it daily too! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 JB2 schreef: | | Again, I say 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!'. Kalarm from 7.3 to 9.3 | worked well...now it doesn't in 10.3. There was no reason to have changed a | thing about it since no one as far as I know or remember never reading about, | ever complained about it *not* working. | | Yes, i find it horrible to find apps that worked correct, don't after trying to make them better.. :-( (sometimes better, means: worse..) Or an app that is broken for so long, i can't even remember: KOrganizer, which can't be shut off from appearing in the system tray... I just leave it, because for me it is too unimportant to do something about it. I don't ever use it... But when apps i use/need, don't work, i want something done about them get to work again, first try myself, if that doesn't work, find a replacement, try help in fi this list, in between: use the replacement, not fixed: Bugreport. No response? Use the replacement, and get used to it. For Final releases this is... For Alpha's and Beta's: bugreports have to be made, for the devs to keep track what is going on, and not to forget what *has* to be fixed. About KDE4, as said: It makes a realistic chance to be usable before final, if the speed of developing remains the same as the last few weeks. Bugfree is impossible! There is no DE without bugs, everybody knows this. If people find the same behaviour, which should not be like that: is not intended, search the bugzilla for same beaviour, and vote for the bug, the sooner it will be fixed. (i hope ;) - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtBUIX5/X5X6LpDgRAtNsAKC1BJ93+Q7upNupi6ksyh/QW+4awACfS8Iq dct6OBRF1+o57tN7yk9WLlE= =LAYV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
JB2 escribió:
Again, I say 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!'. Kalarm from 7.3 to 9.3 worked well...now it doesn't in 10.3.
did you filled a bug report ? btw.. my old cassette radio is also working fine, however tapes are more expensive than CDs nowdays.. same applies to software, mantaining an old product is a hell lot of work and **really** expensive. -- "Morality is merely an interpretation of certain phenomena — more precisely, a misinterpretation." - Friedrich Nietzsche Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 14 February 2008 04:03:50 pm Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
JB2 escribió:
Again, I say 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!'. Kalarm from 7.3 to 9.3 worked well...now it doesn't in 10.3.
did you filled a bug report ?
btw.. my old cassette radio is also working fine, however tapes are more expensive than CDs nowdays.. same applies to software, mantaining an old product is a hell lot of work and **really** expensive.
This is what I attempted to tell. KDE4 is not polished KDE3, it is totally new product. That is the fact that many don't (want to) realize. Old KDE (KDE3) applications don't work in KDE4. They have to be rewritten, and that is the reason why KDE4 is missing a lot of functionality that is present in KDE3. Why completely new KDE? It is the fact that after some time hardware is faster, new standards are introduced, new services are comming, some old are going out of use, and that is changing software landscape, ie. premises that developer is using while creating software. The same as with old radio, adding functionality that people want cost much more than to create new one. 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!' is my favorite, but it doesn't prevent me from ditching old device when new comes, that has some convenient functions missing in old one. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu 14 February 08 20:04, Rajko M. wrote:
On Thursday 14 February 2008 04:03:50 pm Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
JB2 escribió:
Again, I say 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!'. Kalarm from 7.3 to 9.3 worked well...now it doesn't in 10.3.
did you filled a bug report ?
btw.. my old cassette radio is also working fine, however tapes are more expensive than CDs nowdays.. same applies to software, mantaining an old product is a hell lot of work and **really** expensive.
This is what I attempted to tell. KDE4 is not polished KDE3, it is totally new product. That is the fact that many don't (want to) realize.
Old KDE (KDE3) applications don't work in KDE4. They have to be rewritten, and that is the reason why KDE4 is missing a lot of functionality that is present in KDE3.
Then *why* was kde4 apps substituted in to the 10.3 release!? It makes absolutely no sense, especially since so many of the kde4 things aren't working correctly. All it did was waste space on the DVD that could have been filled with apps that work and people could use. -- "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin Religion - it's not just for breakfast anymore...murderers, dictators, child molesters and all other similar ilk use it daily too! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 14 February 2008 09:33:09 pm JB2 wrote:
Then *why* was kde4 apps substituted in to the 10.3 release!?
kdepim3 package has kalarmd (KDE3) version. Though I guess that you actually want KOrganizer or Kontact (Personal Information Manager). kde4-kalarm is KDE4 application, but version in main openSUSE repository is now obsolete and it will not work with current KDE4 either. Newer version is not yet available. It seems that there is no one that will maintain that application.
It makes absolutely no sense, especially since so many of the kde4 things aren't working correctly.
KDE4 version on DVD is 3.9.something. Current is 4.0.1 in repositories and it looks way better. Complains here are on Alpha version of openSUSE 11.0, which is early test and problems that one can see can be completely unrelated to KDE4.
All it did was waste space on the DVD that could have been filled with apps that work and people could use.
I'm tempted to ask: Like? I barely have something to install after installation from 650 MB CD. The install DVD and additional DVD with repositories (retail box) gives everything that openSUSE offers, so there is nothing left out. Besides, some people like to have working system, others to have new stuff, and no one in the world can satisfy both groups. World is going on, KDE1 and 2 are past, KDE3 will be there for quite some time from now, but KDE4 is the future. While some people can fix 50 years old car, other can fix 10 years old software, most of us mortals must follow trend and accept what experts offer. That means to start learning KDE4 and help developers as much as we can. It is in our interest to do so. With KDE guys that improved KDE4 from sketchy (ver. 3.9) to working desktop (ver. 4.0) in 2 months it should be easy to cooperate. All they ask is some facts, not flat "it doesn't work". It resembles me on youngsters that don't know what they want, but want that now. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 14 February 2008 11:55:24 pm Stephan Binner wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2008 03:04:03 Rajko M. wrote:
Old KDE (KDE3) applications don't work in KDE4.
That's complete nonsense.
Bye, Steve
So, for every KDE3 applications that doesn't start in KDE4 I should file bug report ? -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri 15 February 08 17:56, Rajko M. wrote:
On Thursday 14 February 2008 11:55:24 pm Stephan Binner wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2008 03:04:03 Rajko M. wrote:
Old KDE (KDE3) applications don't work in KDE4.
That's complete nonsense.
Bye, Steve
So, for every KDE3 applications that doesn't start in KDE4 I should file bug report ?
As many have implied in one way or another throughout the years...it'd be better than *no* bug reports, correct? -- "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin Religion - it's not just for breakfast anymore...murderers, dictators, child molesters and all other similar ilk use it daily too! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 15 February 2008 06:11:32 pm JB2 wrote:
As many have implied in one way or another throughout the years...it'd be better than *no* bug reports, correct?
Is something missing in the sentence? -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi, I've just installed openSUSE 10.3 and I have a problem with the updater. Every time I log in, it tells me that there are security fixes to install, but then when I try to install them I get the following error: "Problem donloading the package file from the repository. Curl error for 'http://download.opensuse.org/update/10.3/rpm/x86_64/java-1_5_0-1.5.0_update1...' Error code: Unrecognized error. Error message: transfer closed with 15736413 bytes remaining to read. Please see above error message for a hint" Sorry if this has been raised before. I couldn't see anything on a quick scan. I've had similar error messages on other packages as well, but retrying has sorted most of the others out (though I'm still stuck on trying to install some things e.g. Eclipse). Is there a fix for this? Cheers Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 16/02/2008, Peter Bradley <p.bradley@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Hi,
I've just installed openSUSE 10.3 and I have a problem with the updater. Every time I log in, it tells me that there are security fixes to install, but then when I try to install them I get the following error:
"Problem donloading the package file from the repository. Curl error for 'http://download.opensuse.org/update/10.3/rpm/x86_64/java-1_5_0-1.5.0_update1...' Error code: Unrecognized error. Error message: transfer closed with 15736413 bytes remaining to read. Please see above error message for a hint"
Sorry if this has been raised before. I couldn't see anything on a quick scan.
I've had similar error messages on other packages as well, but retrying has sorted most of the others out (though I'm still stuck on trying to install some things e.g. Eclipse).
Is there a fix for this?
download.opensuse.org is currently down, try again later or use a mirror. See en.opensuse.org/Mirrors -- Benjamin Weber -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 16/02/2008, Peter Bradley <p.bradley@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
Hi,
download.opensuse.org is currently down, try again later or use a mirror. See en.opensuse.org/Mirrors
-- Benjamin Weber I just asked in a new thread if anyone knew links to update mirrors. The wiki list of "release mirrors (international)" do not list any that include "update" repos. And the SDB only lists update mirrors up
On Sat, 2008-02-16 at 01:31 +0000, Benji Weber wrote: through 10.2. Example for Utah State Univ update directory: Parent Directory - [DIR] 10.0-test/ 13-Nov-2007 06:17 - [DIR] 10.0/ 01-Mar-2007 11:23 - [DIR] 10.1-test/ 13-Nov-2007 06:16 - [DIR] 10.1.42/ 13-Jun-2006 05:32 - [DIR] 10.1/ 25-Apr-2006 05:00 - [DIR] 10.2-test/ 13-Nov-2007 06:16 - [DIR] 10.2/ 01-Mar-2007 02:03 - [DIR] 9.3/ 11-Apr-2006 05:40 It does not appear that any mirrors exist for the daily updates... Tom in NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 02/16/2008 01:43 PM, Tom Patton wrote:
I just asked in a new thread if anyone knew links to update mirrors. The wiki list of "release mirrors (international)" do not list any that include "update" repos. And the SDB only lists update mirrors up through 10.2.
Example for Utah State Univ update directory: Parent Directory - [DIR] 10.0-test/ 13-Nov-2007 06:17 - [DIR] 10.0/ 01-Mar-2007 11:23 - [DIR] 10.1-test/ 13-Nov-2007 06:16 - [DIR] 10.1.42/ 13-Jun-2006 05:32 - [DIR] 10.1/ 25-Apr-2006 05:00 - [DIR] 10.2-test/ 13-Nov-2007 06:16 - [DIR] 10.2/ 01-Mar-2007 02:03 - [DIR] 9.3/ 11-Apr-2006 05:40
It does not appear that any mirrors exist for the daily updates...
10.3 is under opensuse, not suse -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 10.3 x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2008-02-16 at 13:54 +0800, Joe Morris wrote:
On 02/16/2008 01:43 PM, Tom Patton wrote:
10.3 is under opensuse, not suse
I had a good week last, so it was about time for a dumb moment... Thanks, Joe! Tom -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Is there still a problem? Because I can't update. It seems to just affect an amarok update and a Java 1.5 security update. I have an AMD64 dual core system. Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Peter Bradley schreef:
Is there still a problem? Because I can't update. It seems to just affect an amarok update and a Java 1.5 security update.
I have an AMD64 dual core system.
Peter
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=360518 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Monkey 9 wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to reply, but unfortunately not much at that url means anything to me. Does it mean that this is a bug and I'll have to wait for a fix? Was it offering a solution? - if so I'm afraid I didn't understand it. The last message wasn't in a language I speak, so I couldn't make anything of that. I'm new at this, as you can probably tell, so if anyone could explain, I'd be grateful. Thanks Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 17 February 2008 20:40:54 Peter Bradley wrote:
Monkey 9 wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to reply, but unfortunately not much at that url means anything to me. Does it mean that this is a bug and I'll have to wait for a fix? Was it offering a solution? - if so I'm afraid I didn't understand it. The last message wasn't in a language I speak, so I couldn't make anything of that.
I'm new at this, as you can probably tell, so if anyone could explain, I'd be grateful.
The message was in dutch, and was just a copy/paste from the output of zypper. The workaround suggested for the problem of an update that won't go away from the gui was in comment 1: run "zypper up" as root from a command line. It seems to have worked. It installed the update properly Anders -- Madness takes its toll -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Anders Johansson wrote:
The message was in dutch, and was just a copy/paste from the output of zypper. The workaround suggested for the problem of an update that won't go away from the gui was in comment 1: run "zypper up" as root from a command line. It seems to have worked. It installed the update properly
Anders
Thanks Anders. I can manage Welsh, French and English, but not Dutch, I'm afraid :) The other thing is that that wasn't my problem. The problem is that I get an error. For instance, I've tried to install Eclipse, but some parts will not download - so now when I try to start Eclipse, I get: "The Eclipse executable launcher was unable to locate its companion launcher jar." The error I get on download says: "Problem downloading the package file from the repository. Curl error for 'http:// .. etc .. etc' Error code: Unrecognized error. Error message: transfer closed with xxxxxxx bytes remaining to read" When I look in YAST, it's saying that just about everything related to Eclipse is installed (including the Eclipse package itself), but - as I say - something, at least is obviously missing. Cheers Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 17 February 2008 02:00:48 pm Peter Bradley wrote:
Anders Johansson wrote:
The message was in dutch, and was just a copy/paste from the output of zypper. The workaround suggested for the problem of an update that won't go away from the gui was in comment 1: run "zypper up" as root from a command line. It seems to have worked. It installed the update properly
Anders
Thanks Anders. I can manage Welsh, French and English, but not Dutch, I'm afraid :)
The other thing is that that wasn't my problem. The problem is that I get an error. For instance, I've tried to install Eclipse, but some parts will not download - so now when I try to start Eclipse, I get:
"The Eclipse executable launcher was unable to locate its companion launcher jar."
The error I get on download says:
"Problem downloading the package file from the repository. Curl error for 'http:// .. etc .. etc' Error code: Unrecognized error. Error message: transfer closed with xxxxxxx bytes remaining to read"
When I look in YAST, it's saying that just about everything related to Eclipse is installed (including the Eclipse package itself), but - as I say - something, at least is obviously missing.
Cheers
Peter
The error seems as result of problems with download.opensuse.org server. The easiest from my prospective is to reset any ignored dependencies, and press Accept button and see what happens. If nothing than as next attempt I would remove Eclipse and than install it again. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
The error seems as result of problems with download.opensuse.org server. The easiest from my prospective is to reset any ignored dependencies, and press Accept button and see what happens. If nothing than as next attempt I would remove Eclipse and than install it again.
Thanks for that. I uninstalled Eclipse and reinstalled everything, and it worked OK this time. The other things I'd had problems with (e.g. Acroread) also installed just fine this time. So there was obviously a problem in the pipe somewhere. I know that there have been problems with SUSE's download servers, but the problem could just as easily have been at this end. My ISP was taken over recently and I've had a few issues with them since then - although one thing that may point to SUSE was the huge amount of updating and cleaning that went on before the main packet management gui opened. Anyway, everything's fine now, so it's academic. I really like openSUSE 10.3, BTW (having just upgraded from 10.0). At least I do now I've found out how to get rid of the new SUSE menu, which was just too cumbersome for words. Kudos to the team. Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 15 February 2008 06:27:32 pm Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 15 February 2008 06:11:32 pm JB2 wrote:
As many have implied in one way or another throughout the years...it'd be better than *no* bug reports, correct?
Is something missing in the sentence?
Slower reading might help me. Thanks to Philippe for longer version. The answer is yes. I was just confused with one comment some time ago that made me think that KDE3 applications are not meant to run under KDE4, which Stephan dismissed. Though I would move this and any further discussion to opensuse-kde@opensuse.org to keep KDE related discussions in one place. I'll be a bit busy to find current state of support for KDE3 applications in KDE4. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rajko M. schreef: | On Friday 15 February 2008 06:11:32 pm JB2 wrote: | |> As many have implied in one way or another throughout the years...it'd be |> better than *no* bug reports, correct? | | Is something missing in the sentence? | This will result in an increasing buglist.... - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtq3GX5/X5X6LpDgRApWIAKDOD0evVFNAND0IwAeT0Zl365QoQwCfU9dP MHYPQeCc5k/aL3MR8tgo9FE= =Gh5W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 16 February 2008 03:32:54 am M9. wrote:
Rajko M. schreef: | On Friday 15 February 2008 06:11:32 pm JB2 wrote: |> As many have implied in one way or another throughout the
years...it'd be
|> better than *no* bug reports, correct? | | Is something missing in the sentence?
This will result in an increasing buglist....
Which is the goal. Guys that work on debugging are usually very fast to find duplicates and dismiss false report. Sometimes to fast on former, IMHO, but if reporter can provide details they are pretty efficient. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. schreef:
On Saturday 16 February 2008 03:32:54 am M9. wrote:
Rajko M. schreef: | On Friday 15 February 2008 06:11:32 pm JB2 wrote: |> As many have implied in one way or another throughout the
years...it'd be
|> better than *no* bug reports, correct? | | Is something missing in the sentence?
This will result in an increasing buglist....
Which is the goal. Guys that work on debugging are usually very fast to find duplicates and dismiss false report. Sometimes to fast on former, IMHO, but if reporter can provide details they are pretty efficient.
Ofcourse, only i notice that on many bugreports, there is not going to be any reaction. Which rises the question on my side: Why take the effort to make them, if they are not intended to be fixed? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 16 February 2008 10:05:39 am Monkey 9 wrote:
Which is the goal. Guys that work on debugging are usually very fast to find duplicates and dismiss false report. Sometimes to fast on former, IMHO, but if reporter can provide details they are pretty efficient.
Ofcourse, only i notice that on many bugreports, there is not going to be any reaction. Which rises the question on my side: Why take the effort to make them, if they are not intended to be fixed?
The bug fixing is not always simple. Developer has to make sure that bugfix will be included upstream, to make sure that is as little differences between openSUSE version and upstream one. Sometimes one has to reiterate question/proposal because developer see software from different prospective than user. Than when is all clear (both reporter and developer talk the same language :-) ) there is their management that has to give approval and also upstream project has to agree. Some developers will take time to give you feedback, so you will know that they work on the bug, others not. They will just work on the bug and for you as reporter it seems that nothing is happening. So far I know there is no rule to give feedback and each developer is handling that in his own way. This is example of simple usability bug and, in my opinion, proper user feedback. No many words, ie. time lost to keep reporter informed, but enough to let me know that bug is in process and my report was not waste of time. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=347423 and upstream discussion: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5226 -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. schreef:
On Saturday 16 February 2008 10:05:39 am Monkey 9 wrote:
Which is the goal. Guys that work on debugging are usually very fast to find duplicates and dismiss false report. Sometimes to fast on former, IMHO, but if reporter can provide details they are pretty efficient.
Ofcourse, only i notice that on many bugreports, there is not going to be any reaction. Which rises the question on my side: Why take the effort to make them, if they are not intended to be fixed?
The bug fixing is not always simple. Developer has to make sure that bugfix will be included upstream, to make sure that is as little differences between openSUSE version and upstream one. Sometimes one has to reiterate question/proposal because developer see software from different prospective than user. Than when is all clear (both reporter and developer talk the same language :-) ) there is their management that has to give approval and also upstream project has to agree. Some developers will take time to give you feedback, so you will know that they work on the bug, others not. They will just work on the bug and for you as reporter it seems that nothing is happening. So far I know there is no rule to give feedback and each developer is handling that in his own way.
This is example of simple usability bug and, in my opinion, proper user feedback. No many words, ie. time lost to keep reporter informed, but enough to let me know that bug is in process and my report was not waste of time. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=347423 and upstream discussion: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5226
Yes it is nice when you notice something is trying to something about it. And sometimes very little is nessesary to fix a bug, and sometimes it takes longer... [OT] I installed thunderbrowse in thunderbird, very convenient to browse from thunderbird, and go directly to links in same app ;) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Monkey 9 schreef:
Rajko M. schreef:
On Saturday 16 February 2008 10:05:39 am Monkey 9 wrote:
Which is the goal. Guys that work on debugging are usually very fast to find duplicates and dismiss false report. Sometimes to fast on former, IMHO, but if reporter can provide details they are pretty efficient.
Ofcourse, only i notice that on many bugreports, there is not going to be any reaction. Which rises the question on my side: Why take the effort to make them, if they are not intended to be fixed?
The bug fixing is not always simple. Developer has to make sure that bugfix will be included upstream, to make sure that is as little differences between openSUSE version and upstream one. Sometimes one has to reiterate question/proposal because developer see software from different prospective than user. Than when is all clear (both reporter and developer talk the same language :-) ) there is their management that has to give approval and also upstream project has to agree. Some developers will take time to give you feedback, so you will know that they work on the bug, others not. They will just work on the bug and for you as reporter it seems that nothing is happening. So far I know there is no rule to give feedback and each developer is handling that in his own way. This is example of simple usability bug and, in my opinion, proper user feedback. No many words, ie. time lost to keep reporter informed, but enough to let me know that bug is in process and my report was not waste of time. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=347423 and upstream discussion: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5226
Yes it is nice when you notice something is trying to something about it. And sometimes very little is nessesary to fix a bug, and sometimes it takes longer... Sorry somebody trying to do something..
[OT] I installed thunderbrowse in thunderbird, very convenient to browse from thunderbird, and go directly to links in same app ;)
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Monkey 9 wrote:
Rajko M. schreef:
On Saturday 16 February 2008 10:05:39 am Monkey 9 wrote:
Which is the goal. Guys that work on debugging are usually very fast to find duplicates and dismiss false report. Sometimes to fast on former, IMHO, but if reporter can provide details they are pretty efficient.
Ofcourse, only i notice that on many bugreports, there is not going to be any reaction. Which rises the question on my side: Why take the effort to make them, if they are not intended to be fixed?
The bug fixing is not always simple. Developer has to make sure that bugfix will be included upstream, to make sure that is as little differences between openSUSE version and upstream one. Sometimes one has to reiterate question/proposal because developer see software from different prospective than user. Than when is all clear (both reporter and developer talk the same language :-) ) there is their management that has to give approval and also upstream project has to agree. Some developers will take time to give you feedback, so you will know that they work on the bug, others not. They will just work on the bug and for you as reporter it seems that nothing is happening. So far I know there is no rule to give feedback and each developer is handling that in his own way. This is example of simple usability bug and, in my opinion, proper user feedback. No many words, ie. time lost to keep reporter informed, but enough to let me know that bug is in process and my report was not waste of time. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=347423 and upstream discussion: http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5226
Yes it is nice when you notice something is trying to something about it. And sometimes very little is nessesary to fix a bug, and sometimes it takes longer...
[OT] I installed thunderbrowse in thunderbird, very convenient to browse from thunderbird, and go directly to links in same app ;)
this is why I stayed with the Mozilla suite. I tried the Thunderbird/Firefox combo, and it was usually more hassle than it was worth. With thunderbrowse, it looks the code is migrating back to the same place as where Seamonkey is. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Aaron Kulkis schreef: | Monkey 9 wrote: |> Rajko M. schreef: |>> On Saturday 16 February 2008 10:05:39 am Monkey 9 wrote: |>> |>>>> Which is the goal. Guys that work on debugging are usually very |>>>> fast to |>>>> find duplicates and dismiss false report. Sometimes to fast on former, |>>>> IMHO, but if reporter can provide details they are pretty efficient. |>>>> |>>>> |>>> Ofcourse, only i notice that on many bugreports, there is not going to |>>> be any reaction. |>>> Which rises the question on my side: Why take the effort to make them, |>>> if they are not intended to be fixed? |>>> |>> |>> The bug fixing is not always simple. Developer has to make sure that |>> bugfix will be included upstream, to make sure that is as little |>> differences between openSUSE version and upstream one. Sometimes one |>> has to reiterate question/proposal because developer see software |>> from different prospective than user. Than when is all clear (both |>> reporter and developer talk the same language :-) ) there is their |>> management that has to give approval and also upstream project has to |>> agree. Some developers will take time to give you feedback, so you |>> will know that they work on the bug, others not. They will just work |>> on the bug and for you as reporter it seems that nothing is |>> happening. So far I know there is no rule to give feedback and each |>> developer is handling that in his own way. |>> This is example of simple usability bug and, in my opinion, proper |>> user feedback. No many words, ie. time lost to keep reporter |>> informed, but enough to let me know that bug is in process and my |>> report was not waste of time. |>> https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=347423 |>> and upstream discussion: |>> http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=5226 |>> |>> |> Yes it is nice when you notice something is trying to something about it. |> And sometimes very little is nessesary to fix a bug, and sometimes it |> takes longer... |> |> [OT] I installed thunderbrowse in thunderbird, very convenient to |> browse from thunderbird, and go directly to links in same app ;) | | this is why I stayed with the Mozilla suite. | I tried the Thunderbird/Firefox combo, and it was usually | more hassle than it was worth. | | With thunderbrowse, it looks the code is migrating back | to the same place as where Seamonkey is. | | | I started using mozilla in '95. Used netscape, and after the browserwar, i went plain mozilla again, Did many things to make the scale turning in favor of an independant browser, but after netscape went wallstreet, i did not like it so much anymore, and turned again to the original idea and community. - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHuV1ZX5/X5X6LpDgRAvyBAJoDp6IzAHbE+DxtnoYna/cZoDBgqgCbB3wM 82x7VXKBogFQYEKb2YYA2w8= =YL72 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 16 February 2008 17:05:39 Monkey 9 wrote:
i notice that on many bugreports, there is not going to be any reaction.
Maybe your bug reports would be considered more serious if you don't file everything as blocker? ;-) Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Binner schreef:
On Saturday 16 February 2008 17:05:39 Monkey 9 wrote:
i notice that on many bugreports, there is not going to be any reaction.
Maybe your bug reports would be considered more serious if you don't file everything as blocker? ;-)
Bye, Steve
Think i can change that? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:36:12 +0100, Monkey 9 wrote:
Think i can change that?
Of cause, as you define the initial severity and can change that afterwards again, though other are free to do as well. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 16 February 2008 05:49:59 pm Philipp Thomas wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:36:12 +0100, Monkey 9 wrote:
Think i can change that?
Of cause, as you define the initial severity and can change that afterwards again, though other are free to do as well.
Severity yes, but priority should be left to the person that will debug a problem, at least that was told to me when I raised both on certain bug to bring it under developers radar. I guess some internal rule, as both are can be changed by anyone logged in bugzilla. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 16 February 2008 06:17:40 pm Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 16 February 2008 05:49:59 pm Philipp Thomas wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:36:12 +0100, Monkey 9 wrote:
Think i can change that?
Of cause, as you define the initial severity and can change that afterwards again, though other are free to do as well.
Severity yes, but priority should be left to the person that will debug a problem, at least that was told to me when I raised both on certain bug to bring it under developers radar.
I guess some internal rule, as both are can be changed by anyone logged in bugzilla.
I guess it is some internal rule, as both can be changed by anyone logged in bugzilla. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Philipp Thomas schreef:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:36:12 +0100, Monkey 9 wrote:
Think i can change that?
Of cause, as you define the initial severity and can change that afterwards again, though other are free to do as well.
Philipp
Right. I changed all my bug severities. The only thing i want is to get to a useable system, i will follow the path that works, if shown to me. I do not spend this amount of time to insult or offend anybody, or to *not* reach the goal. I am only interested in getting things better, killing the bugs, and move along to a better system, that is all -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu 14 February 08 16:03, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
JB2 escribió:
Again, I say 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!'. Kalarm from 7.3 to 9.3 worked well...now it doesn't in 10.3.
did you filled a bug report ?
I was told it and kinternet were being dropped, IIRR, after I filed one. (kinternet is being replaced with knetwormanager, I think it said, can't remember about kalarm)
btw.. my old cassette radio is also working fine, however tapes are more expensive than CDs nowdays.. same applies to software, mantaining an old product is a hell lot of work and **really** expensive.
You're talking apples and oranges now. Different *hardware* stuff is not comparable to software work. But if you want to be that way about it, I can counter that bs with - my 1960 Chevy Apache10 4x4 with a rebuilt (by me) 283 motor gets 20 mpg...same as my 1990 Chevy 2x4 with a V6. I take very good measures on maintenance with both of them. My old truck is 48 years old and I can take it almost literally anywhere I want (and darn near have, actually) and not worry about getting stuck. It's *much* simpler to work on also. The '90 I almost need to have a laptop computer (depending on the problem), a set of metric *and* SAE tools, and more than one jack if the problem is anything more than a flat tire. So your point is moot and means nothing about software being harder or more expensive to write/code. If that were true, Bash, and all sorts of other apps would have been booted from Linux *loooong* ago. -- "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin Religion - it's not just for breakfast anymore...murderers, dictators, child molesters and all other similar ilk use it daily too! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 15 February 2008, JB2 said:
On Thu 14 February 08 16:03, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
JB2 escribió:
Again, I say 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it!'. Kalarm from 7.3 to 9.3 worked well...now it doesn't in 10.3.
did you filled a bug report ?
I was told it and kinternet were being dropped, IIRR, after I filed one. (kinternet is being replaced with knetwormanager, I think it said, can't remember about kalarm)
Right, kinternet is being replaced. I don't recall telling you this about kalarm, however. The KDE 3 KAlarm is in 10.3 in kdepim3-time-management and is more than likely installed right now at /opt/kde3/bin/kalarm. By installing the kde 4 preview packages that were shipped with 10.3, you should be ready for problems, and if you read the 'KDE 4 Applications Path' item in the release notes[1], you'll see why kalarm is 'dropped' - /usr/bin/kalarm from the kde 4 preview packages is masking /opt/kde3/bin/kalarm because of the order of $PATH. I recommend you remove the kde4-* packages, or if you still want to try KDE 4, add the KDE:KDE4:STABLE:Extra-Apps repository and upgrade your KDE 4 packages from prerelease to 4.0.1. This will remove the kde4 kalarm altogether, as kdepim chose not to release in KDE 4.0 at all. Hope that clears things up Will [1] /usr/share/doc/release-notes/openSUSE/RELEASE-NOTES.en.html
-- "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Religion - it's not just for breakfast anymore...murderers, dictators, child molesters and all other similar ilk use it daily too!
-- Desktop Engineer KDE Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Alexey Eremenko escribió:
Hi all !
Just installed openSUSE 11.0..
it is highly ridiculous to expect an alpha product to be ready.. -- "Morality is merely an interpretation of certain phenomena — more precisely, a misinterpretation." - Friedrich Nietzsche Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Cristian Rodríguez schreef: | Alexey Eremenko escribió: |> Hi all ! |> |> Just installed openSUSE 11.0.. | | it is highly ridiculous to expect an alpha product to be ready.. | | As a matter of fact a1 seemed more ready to me than a2, but that might be 'cause around this time the realy new things have been added...? - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. ~ OS: Linux 2.6.22.17-0.1-default x86_64 ~ Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@AMD64x2-sfn1 ~ Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) ~ KDE: 3.5.7 "release 72.6" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHtFQAX5/X5X6LpDgRAhVSAKCtg52xvd8vKYdrZNlszvaV5DukagCbBxgv qGTkh/WkgD2rRB2h0RJh6zM= =Txrl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 14 February 2008 08:45:20 am M9. wrote:
Cristian Rodríguez schreef: | Alexey Eremenko escribió: |> Hi all ! |> |> Just installed openSUSE 11.0.. | | it is highly ridiculous to expect an alpha product to be ready..
As a matter of fact a1 seemed more ready to me than a2, but that might be 'cause around this time the realy new things have been added...?
The last time it was the same. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (28)
-
Aaron Kulkis -
Alexey Eremenko -
Anders Johansson -
Anton Moiseev -
Benji Weber -
Bob S -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Druid -
Gabriel . -
Greg Freemyer -
James Knott -
James R Thompson -
JB2 -
Joe Morris -
Joe Sloan -
Kai Ponte -
Kevin Dupuy -
M. Skiba -
M9. -
Mike -
Monkey 9
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Peter Bradley -
Philipp Thomas -
Philippe Landau -
Rajko M. -
Stephan Binner -
Tom Patton -
Will Stephenson