Ben, On Sunday 06 October 2002 21.08, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

::8.1 is not available to me yet, but I've read a few posts about problems ::with java and the new gcc 3.2 based SuSE.

Yes, the java plugins for Mozilla/Netscape 6/7 do not work with the GCC 3.2 compiled version in SuSE 8.1, Mandrake 9.0 or Redhat 8.0. I do not believe that these distribution compile their own java pkgs. It's a Sun thing. Until Sun uses GCC 3.2 it can't be helped.

The j2re 1.4.1 is something you've installed manually, isn't it? It's not something included in SuSE 8.1, right? Don't the plugins in the java packages included in 8.1 work? They should be compiled with gcc 3.2 //Anders -- 'Deserves [death]. I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.' --Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

On Sun, 2002-10-06 at 15:42, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

* Anders Johansson (andjoh@cicada.linux-site.net) [021006 12:16]: :: ::The j2re 1.4.1 is something you've installed manually, isn't it? It's not ::something included in SuSE 8.1, right? Don't the plugins in the java packages ::included in 8.1 work? They should be compiled with gcc 3.2 ::

Nope. It fails to load the plugin in /usr/lib/java2 which is 1.3.1 and the pkg SuSE installs. It also fails to load the 1.4.1 plugin. Sun's JAVA 1.3.1 had a security alert several months ago and it was recommended that 1.4.1 be used. Maybe SuSE "fixed" 1.3.1..maybe not. But in any case both fail to load. And the thing is..only going to the BBC website made me aware of it. Then I checked the about plugins and JAVA wasn't listed. I started Mozilla via cmdline and it puked on the JAVA plugin only which is weird. It was quite happy to use the CrossOver plugins which are compiled with GCC 2.95.X but it wasn't happy about either Sun Java2 releases. *shrug*

I'm quite happy with the "old" Moz compile from Mozilla.org. Now if I could figure out why my machine has frozen solid twice in the last 20 hours..I'd be happy as hell. It might have been apm and apci which I just disabled. I seem to remember AMD machines having issues with this lately...although I had no issues with this machine and 8.0. Who knows.

Maybe 8.0 should have been 7.4 and 8.1 should have been 8.0... *shrug*

Thanks for the info. Just to clarify, the JVMs DO work with local java programs, it's just the mozilla plugin that is broken? I have no problem donwloading and installing the Sun 1.4 release as long as it will work. Best Regards, Keith -- LPIC-2, MCSE, N+ Sing blue silver Got spam? Get spastic http://spastic.sourceforge.net

Keith Winston wrote:

Thanks for the info. Just to clarify, the JVMs DO work with local java programs, it's just the mozilla plugin that is broken?

To clarify, yes, it's fine with local programs. -- Rachel

* Philipp Thomas (pth@t-link.de) [021006 19:12]: ::Keith Winston [ 06 Oct 2002 16:05:44 -0400]: :: ::>Thanks for the info. Just to clarify, the JVMs DO work with local java ::>programs, it's just the mozilla plugin that is broken? :: ::Java *is* working, so your java apps will work, as long as you don't ::tie in code written in C++ (via JNI) and compiled by gcc 3.2. This is ::because both Sun Java and IBM Java have been compiled with older (i.e. ::2.95.X and earlier) versions of gcc. :: ::>I have no problem donwloading and installing the Sun 1.4 release as long ::>as it will work. :: ::I can confirm that 1.3 and 1.4 do run under SuSE Linux 8.1. Yes, of course they do. But they *do not* work with Mozilla. The reason they work with Netscape 7 and below is because Netscape 7 is compiled with GCC 2.95.x. If SuSE were to compile Mozilla with the older GCC it would work fine as is evident by using the mozilla.org pkg. So for everyone who has a question about JAVA and 8.1. It works but not with Mozilla compiled with GCC 3.2. I've had no problems with anything else..for example I use Moneydance for manageing my banking. If this has stopped working I would be hitting the roof and going back to 8.0 until it was fixed. Well, it works fine and I'm quite happy with 8.1. I've installed the mozilla.org build of Mozilla and all is well. -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org Tell me what you believe.. I tell you what you should see.

On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

If SuSE were to compile Mozilla with the older GCC it would work fine as is evident by using the mozilla.org pkg.

Yeah, and break all packages that use the Gecko render engine like for instance galeon.

So where does that leave those of us who want a fully functional Mozilla? Either uninstalling Nautilus and Galeon or sticking with 8.0, it sounds like. I guess I'll need to decide which to do. Upgrading to 8.1 was a no-brainer. I was going to call around Portland tomorrow and see where it was being sold and buy it. Now I'm not so sure.

Using gcc 2.95.3 to recompile selected packages is no option for us. We're very happy that we no longer have to maintain three different versions of gcc and instead have *one* version that covers *all* platforms we're supporting. That one version is quite enough to maintain. Just take a look inside the GCC source RPM and you'll see a rather larger number of patches we're applying.

You may be happy. I don't discount that or disagree that that's important. But what's the customer who needs Java to be fully functional supposed to think? Preston

On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Herman Knief wrote:

Well, there are more issues than just plugins for Mozilla. I have several apps that rely on "Install Anywhere" which is a java based

Oh, that's definitely a deal-breaker, then. I use a couple different products that require Install Anywhere. Dang. Preston

Philipp Thomas wrote:

This is the first time I hear of it. I'll try and see what I can come up with. With "Install Anywhere" being a commercial application, I just guess it won't be that easy to track down the failure as I'd first would have to get hold of either the installer or a package/app that uses it.

Well, any help would be appreciated. It actually complains about loading libraries, but the odd thing is, it's complaining about things that are obviously there. It sets it's own environment up and I think that is where the problem lies. It's not *seeing* the system properly. Unfortuantely, it builds these funky scripts which do checksums on the file, so if you modify the script to try and T/S... it refuses to run. Herman

Herman Knief [ Tue, 08 Oct 2002 21:27:50 -0700]:

The source code for J2SE 1.4 is available (under Sun's Community Source License) and can be compiled using gcc 3.2.

But in order to distribute we need a license from Sun ....

Maybe SuSE could communicate with Sun and work this out.

AFAIK we *are* talking with sun. Philipp -- Philipp Thomas work: pthomas@suse.de Development SuSE Linux AG private: pth@t-link.de

On Wednesday 09 October 2002 06:52 pm, Philipp Thomas wrote:

Herman Knief [ Tue, 08 Oct 2002 21:27:50 -0700]:

...

The source code for J2SE 1.4 is available (under Sun's Community Source License) and can be compiled using gcc 3.2.

But in order to distribute we need a license from Sun ....

...

Maybe SuSE could communicate with Sun and work this out.

AFAIK we *are* talking with sun.

Philipp

What's the status on this one? I like to build my own Mozilla, but I'd rather not try straddling two gcc versions to do so. I'd also like to avoid compiling my own Java, unless its as easy as ftp ... tar xvfz *gz... ./configure && make. Something tells me it's not going to be that easy, and I don't even know if it will correct the problem. STH

* Philipp Thomas (pth@t-link.de) [021006 21:09]: ::>But they *do not* work with Mozilla. :: ::Nobody stated anything else, but that wasn't the question! The ::question was if the Java VMs run and that they do. Well, since I started the whole Java thread I know it had something to do with the original question. ;) ::>If SuSE were to compile Mozilla with the older GCC it ::>would work fine as is evident by using the mozilla.org pkg. :: ::Yeah, and break all packages that use the Gecko render engine like for ::instance galeon. Well. A functional Mozilla w/ the Java plugin is much more important to me then a 2nd string browser and the file manager of another desktop I don't use...and I'll bet 90% of SuSE users don't use :) And frankly when Konqueror supports tabbed browsing. I won't care. I'll just use it. ::Using gcc 2.95.3 to recompile selected packages is no option for us. ::We're very happy that we no longer have to maintain three different ::versions of gcc and instead have *one* version that covers *all* ::platforms we're supporting. That one version is quite enough to ::maintain. Just take a look inside the GCC source RPM and you'll see a ::rather larger number of patches we're applying. I feel for ya. I really do. But I feel more for the customer who has to deal with the BBC and other such sites that use JAVA and bitch at you when it's not there or doesn't work. :) This problem with the java plugin isn't 1/10th as bad as the libc5 to Glibc change over. It'll be fine, but for now I guess I just have to uninstall galeon and nautilus since they are not essential to my daily work. cheers! -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org Tell me what you believe.. I tell you what you should see.

Graham Murray [07 Oct 2002 06:51:56 +0100]:

I suppose that compiling Java with gcc3.2 is also not an option?

Well, that would require source code and a license that would allow us to put that recompiled Java on our disks and we have neither.

Though SuSE is not the only major distribution to have recently made a gcc3.2 based release. So hopefully the Java maintainers will soon release a gcc3.2 compatible version.

That's what I'm hoping too. Philipp -- Philipp Thomas work: pthomas@suse.de Development SuSE Linux AG private: pth@t-link.de

* Glenn Holmer (gholmer@ameritech.net) [021007 16:54]: ::Ben Rosenberg wrote: ::>::I can confirm that 1.3 and 1.4 do run under SuSE Linux 8.1. ::> ::>Yes, of course they do. But they *do not* work with Mozilla. :: ::I don't think I understand this thread. I'm a professional Java ::programmer, and I use NetBeans all day long... with JDK 1.4.1 from ::Sun (I upgraded my workstation to SuSE 8.1 this weekend). I use ::Mozilla 1.1 from mozilla.org, and I've linked the Java 1.4 plugin ::to his plugin directory. The demo applets all run fine, and whatever ::web sites I've been to that use Java as well. What am I missing ::about this discussion? The skinny is that the Mozilla 1.0.1 that comes with SuSE 8.1 is compiled with GCC 3.2 and can load/use the Java plugins yet. They are compiled with GCC 2.95.x. If your using Mozilla from mozilla.org then it's compiled with 2.95.x and works just fine. You wouldn't see any issues with that build. :) -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org Tell me what you believe.. I tell you what you should see.

On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 19:54, Glenn Holmer wrote:

Ben Rosenberg wrote:

...

::I can confirm that 1.3 and 1.4 do run under SuSE Linux 8.1.

Yes, of course they do. But they *do not* work with Mozilla.

I don't think I understand this thread. I'm a professional Java programmer, and I use NetBeans all day long... with JDK 1.4.1 from Sun (I upgraded my workstation to SuSE 8.1 this weekend). I use Mozilla 1.1 from mozilla.org, and I've linked the Java 1.4 plugin to his plugin directory. The demo applets all run fine, and whatever web sites I've been to that use Java as well. What am I missing about this discussion?

The key is you _downloaded_ mozilla from mozilla.org which presumably was compiled with gcc 2.95.x whereas the mozilla binary shipped with SuSE was compiled with gcc 3.2. The java plugins are apparently compiled with gcc 2.95.x and so work fine with the download version of mozilla, but not the SuSE version. The thread has wandered into trying to determine the compiler version of the mozilla shipped with RH8.0 which I can get to work with Sun java. Best Regards, Keith -- LPIC-2, MCSE, N+ Sing blue silver Got spam? Get spastic http://spastic.sourceforge.net

On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Christian [iso-8859-1] Bj�rnbak wrote:

Hi

I'm depressed Java/Linux user too..

I haven't switched to SuSE 8.1 yet - luckily!!

I did a search on Javasoft and found a link to linuxfromscratch.org where some have succeded to compile JDK 1.4 from scratch with gcc.

http://hints.linuxfromscratch.org/hints/javafromscratch.txt

I'm not familiar with building RPM's, but maybe someone on the list could use the howto to make a shiny JDK 1.4 with gcc 3.2 support and distribute it??

But even if I get a working JDK I still have a possible issue with the Oracle software I use... Oracle ships their software compiled but not linked - will this become a issue with the gcc switch??

That was my bigger concern. Things like Oracle (which I use). Preston

Anders Johansson wrote:

On Sunday 06 October 2002 21.42, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

...

Nope. It fails to load the plugin in /usr/lib/java2 which is 1.3.1 and the pkg SuSE installs. It also fails to load the 1.4.1 plugin. Sun's JAVA 1.3.1 had a security alert several months ago and it was recommended that 1.4.1 be used. Maybe SuSE "fixed" 1.3.1..maybe not. But in any case both fail to load.

OK, I see that now. And I think I understand why. The plugin is in a directory called ns610, so I suspect we won't see a solution to this until we get a netscape binary built using the new gcc :(

No, the ns610 plugin works fine on Mozilla if Mozilla's compiled with a 2.9.x compiler (eg: a build as downloaded from mozilla.org) -- Rachel

On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, Ben Rosenberg wrote:

Maybe 8.0 should have been 7.4 and 8.1 should have been 8.0... *shrug*

No kidding. Glad I waited before buying. Maybe it's time to make that jump to FreeBSD. My big problem with FreeBSD has been getting Java to work. This is important since I'm a Java programmer. Web programmer. So I don't need these kinds of headaches. Preston

* Rachel Greenham (rachel@linuxgrrls.org) [021006 13:18]: ::> ::Again, I see the same in Gentoo. My guess is that Konqueror's doing ::something funky and not using the plugin. When you configure java in ::Konqueror, you tell it where the "java" executable is rather than supply ::the plugin. Maybe it's doing some fancy kpart thing to embed a normal ::Java process in a Konqueror window, not sure. If you don't do that, but ::instead include it in the Netscape plugins path to run it as a normal ::plugin... well, it won't even pick it up (fails to initialize?). Yeah, it could be doing something that Mozilla doesn't do. I have /opt/Mozilla/plugins in the list to check. But I do specify in Konq's configs to look at /usr/lib/j2re1.4.1/bin/java. *shrug* I don't know. As I said. I'm not a programmer so I can't offer any meaningful explanation. :) -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org Tell me what you believe.. I tell you what you should see.

On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 12:08:53PM -0700, Ben Rosenberg wrote: : ::8.1 is not available to me yet, but I've read a few posts about problems : ::with java and the new gcc 3.2 based SuSE. : : Yes, the java plugins for Mozilla/Netscape 6/7 do not work with the GCC : 3.2 compiled version in SuSE 8.1, Mandrake 9.0 or Redhat 8.0. I do not : believe that these distribution compile their own java pkgs. It's a Sun : thing. Until Sun uses GCC 3.2 it can't be helped. Try the IBM JDK. I'm using their RPM for 1.3.1 and it's OJI plugin under Mandrake 9.0 (sorry, still waiting for 8.1 on this side of the pond), and it works just fine. --Jerry Open-Source software isn't a matter of life or death... ...It's much more important than that!

* Thorsten Kukuk (kukuk@suse.de) [021007 00:12]: ::On Sun, Oct 06, Ben Rosenberg wrote: :: ::> I'm still not sure why Konqueror uses the older compiled JAVA since it's ::> been compiled with GCC 3.2 as well. No one has explained that. :: ::Konqueror uses another method of calling java, they don't dlopen the ::shared library. So it doesn't matter with which compiler java and KDE ::was compiled. Thanks. :) Now I await KDE 3.1 even more. -- Ben Rosenberg ---===---===---===--- mailto:ben@whack.org Tell me what you believe.. I tell you what you should see.

On Sun, 2002-10-06 at 16:05, Rachel Greenham wrote:

...

Second, can someone who has 8.1 installed tell me if regular JVMs work the same as in 8.0. Do you get IBM and Sun JVMs on the CD and do they work under 8.1. This is a big deal to me because I have a few java apps that are critical. I can't upgrade unless the JVM works.

I develop Java software, so it's *really* critical to me.

The plugin problem is the same as that seen under the latest Gentoo 1.4rc1 release, which I'm currently using. Java itself as a standalone runs just fine; it's only as a Mozilla plugin that it fails. As the cause of the problem is the same, I very much expect that the same will apply with SuSE 8.1.

Thanks Rachel and Ben. You saved me some time. Best Regards, Keith -- LPIC-2, MCSE, N+ Sing blue silver Got spam? Get spastic http://spastic.sourceforge.net