On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Dylan wrote:

Uninstalling the package is just that: uninstalling only the contents of the rpm(s) ... the package has no way to know which directories users have their settings in. Also, what you are asking for is that the uninstallation procedure should delete users' data - this is generally a Bad Thing:wold you want your photos to disapear when an image manager is removed? or your auio files ... or your buisiness accounts ... A package never (one certainly hopes) deletes files from home directories and possibly leaves other "traces" behind.

If you want the cache and config directories removed from your home directory you have to do it yourself. Just imagine you need to remove chromium and re- install it for some reason ... what behaviour would you want then? All your bookmarks etc to remain or for the process to blow them away?

Ok, when I uninstalled and installed back the "chromium" (from Yast) -- I got the exactly same bookmarks and everything the same, even the same preferences were saved in the again installed chromium -- so it might have happened due to this fact that settings are saved in the users home directory. Well that analogy is good that while uninstalling a image editor (say) no one would want to photos be deleted again, correct but here the photos would be saved not in the directory where settings of that image editor would be save (like in .config or .cache), after editing an image, probably one would save in the some directory like /home/user/photos. So really what I meant is there any way to completely remove the traces too -- traces of the softwares settings and not the things which were being implemented upon using that software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

Entropy.

Why does it matter?

For just information point of view, such that once removed, that software has gone incl. the traces, I know it doesn't matter but would it just add a more thing for being more smooth working? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:

LinuxIsOne = Linux Tyro = inconsequential ruminations = /dev/null

BTW, I am not Linux Tyro, but also this not an inconsequential rumination, okay? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday, December 24, 2011 11:17 Carl Hartung wrote:

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 22:25:15 +0530

LinuxIsOne wrote:

...

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Lew Wolfgang

wrote:

...

Entropy.

Why does it matter?

For just information point of view, such that once removed, that software has gone incl. the traces, I know it doesn't matter but would it just add a more thing for being more smooth working?

LinuxIsOne = Linux Tyro = inconsequential ruminations = /dev/null

IMHO

You're another of the pompous asses. What, you think pathetic off-topic threads in here are 'okay' only so long as you and certain others participate, but a perfectly on-topic thread such as this should be derided by your highness because it seems to rub against the grain of your delicate sensibilities? -- Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived. -Isaac Asimov -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/24/2011 08:55 AM, LinuxIsOne wrote:

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

...

Entropy. Why does it matter? For just information point of view, such that once removed, that software has gone incl. the traces, I know it doesn't matter but would it just add a more thing for being more smooth working?

Would there be any forensic interest here? I could understand trying to remove every last vestige of a pirated closed-source package before the dreaded BSA breaks down your front door! Come to think of it, isn't MS Windows famous for leaving large chunks of removed programs laying about? This is more than just registry entries IIRC. Of course, registry-rot is a well-known phenomenon too. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 1:42 AM, John Andersen wrote:

There is also an ownership angle.

If the software is UN-installed, some of the pieces left lying around may belong to the user.  Just because I uninstall OpenOffice does not mean my documents, extra fonts, plugins, clip art, templates etc should be deleted.  I probably want all of those when I install Libre Office.

Okay.

Anything created AFTER installation (configurations, setups, working files, etc) should remain.  They are the user's property and should not be arbitrarily removed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-25 06:10, LinuxIsOne wrote:

I have no problems traces being there, but thought if any genuine utility existing which cleans even the traces from the users settings which are no more used by any running program, the settings of the uninstalled programs (and not the things upon which the uninstalled application was used before uninstallation).

Not that I know. It is intentional not deleting them. And deleting them requires information of what are those things for each particular package, meaning that the package would have to list all those files and directories for a complete clean. As this is not in the design, it is not possible to do such a tool. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk73uIwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UEUwCeNB5NUA7WDmusRQ3pF+iAg9SU qOwAoIZepAkMaxRQGWAeLz8ASTwoWA3q =5j8U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 1:51 PM, jdd wrote:

there are two kind of "traces":

* config files, cache files, temporary files written by the application without the user interaction. These files may be deleted at uninstall if the application list them (for example the ".application" folder)

Yes but this option is validated only if the application (which is going to be uninstalled) is listing by itself.

* user generated files (including user config) that should not be deleted without user interaction, and often can't be because the application do not know they exist. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:51 Lew Wolfgang wrote:

On 12/24/2011 08:25 AM, LinuxIsOne wrote:

...

So while the uninstallation of the package ("chromium") was fully

done (with Yast firstly and then running the command "sudo zypper rm --clean-deps chromium"), still why such traces are existing?

Entropy.

Why does it matter?

Because at one time in the past this was a nicety about linux we could brag about that winblows *didn't and doesn't* have. Now it seems linux (opensuse/some (many?) distro's) are going the way of winblows. The looks, the lessening and lessening of user control over things/desktops/desktop apps/etc (or the making of such control over such things much more difficult with each distro and app version), the further lessening of the KISS principle with each distro version (most notably the lessening of intuitiveness in each - whereas winblows has, IMO, *never* been intuitive, linux desktops (not all but the big ones especially), etc. -- Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived. -Isaac Asimov -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-12-27 05:15, Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

...

Because at one time in the past this was a nicety about linux

Wrong, never was. There were always config/data files created that would linger on after the install unless deleted manually. And in the earlier days before package management you would have to hunt down and delete all traces by hand.

Correct. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk752J0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VXggCgiUUrirvPKoDYa+gHWI96WRTI M/MAn1Yue91ywqVbZ/t/4kKXcV635sea =WD8x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

May I suggest if we could design a tool like that 'Purge' of Debian, for this purpose? I'm not familiar with Debian's 'purge'. Does it clear any config files (etc.) that are *specific to one package*, or does it do a system-wide

purge of everything? In the latter case: I imagine it should be easy enough to make a tool that: - gets a list of all installed packages - gets a file list for each package - merges all these lists together (make a 'master list') - eliminates all files on the system that are not on the master list - (optional: gets zypper to reinstall all packages) Even a simple Perl script should be happy enough to do this... In practice, what you get is a RESET button that reinstalls the system from scratch, but preserves package selection. (On the other hand, you could just make an installation dvd for your chosen packages in SUSE Studio, and use that instead.) Haro -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Haro de Grauw said the following on 12/30/2011 07:40 AM:

...

May I suggest if we could design a tool like that 'Purge' of Debian, for this purpose? I'm not familiar with Debian's 'purge'. Does it clear any config files (etc.) that are *specific to one package*, or does it do a system-wide purge of everything?

In the latter case: I imagine it should be easy enough to make a tool that: - gets a list of all installed packages - gets a file list for each package - merges all these lists together (make a 'master list') - eliminates all files on the system that are not on the master list - (optional: gets zypper to reinstall all packages)

As people have poitned out, there is a lot of stuff that such a strategy would remove that you want kept. A more sensible approach would be to use tools like * Padraig Brady's 'fslint' (Mind you, all that could be done with 'find', but that's another matter.) FSLint will clean more crud out of your system than the minor dot-file detrius that LinuxIsOne talks of. BTDT. The other problem is hanging dependencies. Yes, you removed a package, but you didn't remove the packages it depends on that nothing else depends on. You've left orphaned packages lying around! There's an option for Zypper to do that :-) RPM can also tell you the config files used by the installed packages. You can then figure out the detrius ones that belonged to removed packages. But have you purged /tmp and your various caches? All that being said, I think these are not very good ways to waste your time; you would be better of play PySol or KMines. -- The saddest life is that of a political aspirant under democracy. His failure is ignominious and his success is disgraceful. -- H.L. Mencken -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Haro de Grauw said the following on 12/30/2011 08:57 AM:

...

All that being said, I think these are not very good ways to waste your time; you would be better of play PySol or KMines.

I hear you, loud and clear. KMahjongg on my end, and "I Have No Tomatoes".

But I had been toying with this in my mind; not so much for disk space economics, but in the context of "re-usable" machines either for testing and screwing around, or to hand over to the less technically minded (and reset when they screw things up).

Isn't that what Virtual machines are for? -- The great tragedy of Science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact. -- Thomas H. Huxley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

...

Isn't that what Virtual machines are for? But even that taste is lacked which is in the original installation.

I'm not sure what you mean here, LinuxIsOne. When using virtual machines, you can create a "snapshot" of a system at one point in time, and then restore it to that condition at any later point. By the way, don't even THINK about asking how to do that, without trying a search engine first! ;) Anton, you are perfectly right. I've used XEN to run Windows on openSUSE for a while, but the performance penalties due to full virtualisation are quite hefty, especially on older machines. I never really got into paravirtualised linux-on-linux, but it is certainly something I should (and will) look into. Haro -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 7:27 PM, Haro de Grauw wrote:

But I had been toying with this in my mind; not so much for disk space economics, but in the context of "re-usable" machines either for testing and screwing around, or to hand over to the less technically minded (and reset when they screw things up).

Even though a very small matter, but I prefer to have all the things only which are required, and not anything extra even if it doesn't do anything (rather than sleeping there), seems to me as if it is a sort of negative energy, better if discarded. Analogy: A very old scooter in the house is there, even if no body is using that. I would rather sell it even if I don't get the money. Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

LinuxIsOne said the following on 12/30/2011 09:32 AM:

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

As people have poitned out, there is a lot of stuff that such a strategy would remove that you want kept.

...

A more sensible approach would be to use tools like

...

* Padraig Brady's 'fslint'

...

(Mind you, all that could be done with 'find', but that's another matter.)

...

FSLint will clean more crud out of your system than the minor dot-file detrius that LinuxIsOne talks of. BTDT.

But the package FSLint is not found in the Yast, even after I added the contrib repo.

You didn't google, did you? $ rpm -q -f $(which fslint-gui) fslint-2.28-1.suse.noarch http://www.freetechie.com/blog/using-fslint-to-take-control-of-your-filesyst... http://software.opensuse.org/ymp/GNOME:Community/openSUSE_11.0+GNOME_STABLE/... I'm sure you can find more. I'm getting really tired of telling you to "go google". The answer is out there, and on the opensuse site no less. This is a script package, not a compiled one, so you can use any tarball you find via google. As you would have discovered if you'd googled and read up on it. -- Hardware has grown following Moore's Law; software seems to be stuck with Gresham's Law. - Jim Horning, Inside Risks 133 CACM 44, 7, July 2001 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 8:57 PM, LinuxIsOne wrote:

...

http://software.opensuse.org/ymp/GNOME:Community/openSUSE_11.0+GNOME_STABLE/...

But I think this link is no more working. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

Well if it isn't, then you'll get handed to the OBS search page, and you can fill in the query for 'fslint' and ding that yes there are valid version for ... GNOME/Community

I hope there is no issue if I use the same in KDE (?).

Why do you keep demonstrating that you are incapable of doing a search for yourself and relying on the community to do the work for you?

No not that, I was just saying that : "that link didn't work"! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Friday, December 30, 2011 06:59:13 PM Haro de Grauw wrote:

Not least because using a search engine you get an answer more quickly. ;)

And often wrong ;-) \ specially if you are new to openSUSE and Linux. Please check new article about search on the web: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Search_the_web and add, or tell what you think it should be added. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org