On Saturday 24 Dec 2011, LinuxIsOne wrote:

Amazingly when I run the command "ls -a", I find the traces of the same uninstalled package ("chromium") in the following hidden directories which are ".cache" and ".config" which are in the users home directory.

Uninstalling the package is just that: uninstalling only the contents of the rpm(s) ... the package has no way to know which directories users have their settings in. Also, what you are asking for is that the uninstallation procedure should delete users' data - this is generally a Bad Thing:wold you want your photos to disapear when an image manager is removed? or your auio files ... or your buisiness accounts ... A package never (one certainly hopes) deletes files from home directories and possibly leaves other "traces" behind. If you want the cache and config directories removed from your home directory you have to do it yourself. Just imagine you need to remove chromium and re- install it for some reason ... what behaviour would you want then? All your bookmarks etc to remain or for the process to blow them away? Dx -- If you look long enough into the void the void begins to look back through you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:09 PM, Dylan wrote:

Uninstalling the package is just that: uninstalling only the contents of the rpm(s) ... the package has no way to know which directories users have their settings in. Also, what you are asking for is that the uninstallation procedure should delete users' data - this is generally a Bad Thing:wold you want your photos to disapear when an image manager is removed? or your auio files ... or your buisiness accounts ... A package never (one certainly hopes) deletes files from home directories and possibly leaves other "traces" behind.

If you want the cache and config directories removed from your home directory you have to do it yourself. Just imagine you need to remove chromium and re- install it for some reason ... what behaviour would you want then? All your bookmarks etc to remain or for the process to blow them away?

Ok, when I uninstalled and installed back the "chromium" (from Yast) -- I got the exactly same bookmarks and everything the same, even the same preferences were saved in the again installed chromium -- so it might have happened due to this fact that settings are saved in the users home directory. Well that analogy is good that while uninstalling a image editor (say) no one would want to photos be deleted again, correct but here the photos would be saved not in the directory where settings of that image editor would be save (like in .config or .cache), after editing an image, probably one would save in the some directory like /home/user/photos. So really what I meant is there any way to completely remove the traces too -- traces of the softwares settings and not the things which were being implemented upon using that software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 22:25:15 +0530 LinuxIsOne wrote:

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

...

Entropy.

...

Why does it matter?

For just information point of view, such that once removed, that software has gone incl. the traces, I know it doesn't matter but would it just add a more thing for being more smooth working?

LinuxIsOne = Linux Tyro = inconsequential ruminations = /dev/null IMHO -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Carl Hartung wrote:

inconsequential ruminations = /dev/null

Do you really think that the OP was really wrong and it is not at all a genuine question? Or a query to be better asked? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/24/2011 11:47 AM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

On 12/24/2011 08:55 AM, LinuxIsOne wrote:

...

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

...

Entropy. Why does it matter? For just information point of view, such that once removed, that software has gone incl. the traces, I know it doesn't matter but would it just add a more thing for being more smooth working?

Would there be any forensic interest here? I could understand trying to remove every last vestige of a pirated closed-source package before the dreaded BSA breaks down your front door!

There is also an ownership angle. If the software is UN-installed, some of the pieces left lying around may belong to the user. Just because I uninstall OpenOffice does not mean my documents, extra fonts, plugins, clip art, templates etc should be deleted. I probably want all of those when I install Libre Office. Anything created AFTER installation (configurations, setups, working files, etc) should remain. They are the user's property and should not be arbitrarily removed. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 1:42 AM, John Andersen wrote:

There is also an ownership angle.

If the software is UN-installed, some of the pieces left lying around may belong to the user.  Just because I uninstall OpenOffice does not mean my documents, extra fonts, plugins, clip art, templates etc should be deleted.  I probably want all of those when I install Libre Office.

Okay.

Anything created AFTER installation (configurations, setups, working files, etc) should remain.  They are the user's property and should not be arbitrarily removed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 26/12/2011 00:58, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

It is intentional not deleting them. And deleting them requires information of what are those things for each particular package, meaning that the package would have to list all those files and directories for a complete clean. As this is not in the design, it is not possible to do such a tool.

there are two kind of "traces": * config files, cache files, temporary files written by the application without the user interaction. These files may be deleted at uninstall if the application list them (for example the ".application" folder) * user generated files (including user config) that should not be deleted without user interaction, and often can't be because the application do not know they exist. Not all application sort properly it's files. Many only have own config in ".application", but for example, firefox, thunderbird and virtualbox store user data in the "." folder jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 4:15 PM, Lio wrote:

...

* config files, cache files, temporary files written by the application without the user interaction. These files may be deleted at uninstall if the application list them (for example the ".application" folder)

Yes but this option is validated only if the application (which is going to be uninstalled) is listing by itself.

And right now, I guess, all the applications don't list them fully. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday, December 24, 2011 11:17 Carl Hartung wrote:

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 22:25:15 +0530

LinuxIsOne wrote:

...

On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Lew Wolfgang

wrote:

...

Entropy.

Why does it matter?

For just information point of view, such that once removed, that software has gone incl. the traces, I know it doesn't matter but would it just add a more thing for being more smooth working?

LinuxIsOne = Linux Tyro = inconsequential ruminations = /dev/null

IMHO

You're another of the pompous asses. What, you think pathetic off-topic threads in here are 'okay' only so long as you and certain others participate, but a perfectly on-topic thread such as this should be derided by your highness because it seems to rub against the grain of your delicate sensibilities? -- Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived. -Isaac Asimov -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 5:29 AM, Insomniac wrote:

...

...

wrote:

...

Entropy.

...

...

...

Why does it matter?

And IMHO, this was a confusion which is now cleared, you think it doesn't matter? For me, it matters, and it can be a good point the developers of openSUSE _could_ see for making openSUSE much better (I agree it is already, but there is always a scope of improvement of things). Further if nothing more could be done in this regards, at least this thread is not in vain, I had asked since it came in my mind, IMHO, competes favorably with the thread of 'traffic signals', and as a home user, I want to see the openSUSE number one (might be because I have liked it much), so I always ask the things irrespective of what other might be thinking. Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

May I suggest if we could design a tool like that 'Purge' of Debian, for this purpose? Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Haro de Grauw wrote:

I'm not familiar with Debian's 'purge'. Does it clear any config files (etc.) that are *specific to one package*, or does it do a system-wide purge of everything?

I guess both, since I also only heard and didn't use, but something like it is definitely there.

In the latter case: I imagine it should be easy enough to make a tool that: - gets a list of all installed packages - gets a file list for each package - merges all these lists together (make a 'master list') - eliminates all files on the system that are not on the master list - (optional: gets zypper to reinstall all packages)

Even a simple Perl script should be happy enough to do this...

Great, really can I get the instruction set of using that Perl script and the script itself if it is there?

In practice, what you get is a RESET button that reinstalls the system from scratch, but preserves package selection.

RESET button, okk, you mean this functionality could be added? If yes, okk, like Windows Restore option, it should work (IMO).

(On the other hand, you could just make an installation dvd for your chosen packages in SUSE Studio, and use that instead.)

Okay. Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

All that being said, I think these are not very good ways to waste your time; you would be better of play PySol or KMines.

I hear you, loud and clear. KMahjongg on my end, and "I Have No Tomatoes". But I had been toying with this in my mind; not so much for disk space economics, but in the context of "re-usable" machines either for testing and screwing around, or to hand over to the less technically minded (and reset when they screw things up). Haro -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

As people have poitned out, there is a lot of stuff that such a strategy would remove that you want kept.

A more sensible approach would be to use tools like

* Padraig Brady's 'fslint'

(Mind you, all that could be done with 'find', but that's another matter.)

FSLint will clean more crud out of your system than the minor dot-file detrius that LinuxIsOne talks of.  BTDT.

But the package FSLint is not found in the Yast, even after I added the contrib repo.

The other problem is hanging dependencies. Yes, you removed a package, but you didn't remove the packages it depends on that nothing else depends on.  You've left orphaned packages lying around!

There's an option for Zypper to do that :-)

Yes, it does, I guess the commands are: zypper rm --clean-deps ... zypper rm --clean-deps

RPM can also tell you the config files used by the installed packages. You can then figure out the detrius ones that belonged to removed packages.

But have you purged /tmp and your various caches?

Yes. We can also use BleachBit (I guess).

All that being said, I think these are not very good ways to waste your time; you would be better of play PySol or KMines.

And not chess? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 7:27 PM, Haro de Grauw wrote:

But I had been toying with this in my mind; not so much for disk space economics, but in the context of "re-usable" machines either for testing and screwing around, or to hand over to the less technically minded (and reset when they screw things up).

Even though a very small matter, but I prefer to have all the things only which are required, and not anything extra even if it doesn't do anything (rather than sleeping there), seems to me as if it is a sort of negative energy, better if discarded. Analogy: A very old scooter in the house is there, even if no body is using that. I would rather sell it even if I don't get the money. Thanks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

You didn't google, did you?

$ rpm -q -f $(which fslint-gui) fslint-2.28-1.suse.noarch

http://www.freetechie.com/blog/using-fslint-to-take-control-of-your-filesyst...

http://software.opensuse.org/ymp/GNOME:Community/openSUSE_11.0+GNOME_STABLE/...

I'm sure you can find more.

I'm getting really tired of telling you to "go google". The answer is out there, and on the opensuse site no less. This is a script package, not a compiled one, so you can use any tarball you find via google.  As you would have discovered if you'd googled and read up on it.

OH ty, I really didn't Google. I see the details. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

LinuxIsOne said the following on 12/30/2011 10:36 AM:

On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 8:57 PM, LinuxIsOne wrote:

...

...

http://software.opensuse.org/ymp/GNOME:Community/openSUSE_11.0+GNOME_STABLE/...

But I think this link is no more working.

*sigh* Well if it isn't, then you'll get handed to the OBS search page, and you can fill in the query for 'fslint' and ding that yes there are valid version for ... GNOME/Community Why do you keep demonstrating that you are incapable of doing a search for yourself and relying on the community to do the work for you? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

...

Why do you keep demonstrating that you are incapable of doing a search for yourself and relying on the community to do the work for you? No not that, I was just saying that : "that link didn't work"!

Take it easy guys. :) LinuxIsOne, bear in mind that when you search for something on the internet *you do not disturb anyone*, and you get an answer from a machine. When you post to a mailing list, however, *your request will flash up on dozens of people's screens*, and volunteers must give their time to answer. So before clicking "send", out of respect for the fellow list users, ask yourself if there aren't any other ways you can find the answer. Not least because using a search engine you get an answer more quickly. ;) Haro -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 12/30/2011 11:03 AM, Haro de Grauw wrote:

Anton, you are perfectly right. I've used XEN to run Windows on openSUSE for a while, but the performance penalties due to full virtualisation are quite hefty, especially on older machines. I never really got into paravirtualised linux-on-linux, but it is certainly something I should (and will) look into.

But that might just be a Xen thing, or something particular to your hardware. Owning a license to Vmware (paid for by my day job), I can tell you it is pretty awesome at not imposing an overhead penalty at least on the hardware I have, and for the VMs I run. Yes, there is a difference. (I usually see this only when running OpenSuse as the host platform and comparing it to the exact same version of Opensuse running as a guest) But it is much less than you might imagine, and its a great way to test new releases or other distros. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org