On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 12:01 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/28/2010 12:22 PM:
On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 11:05 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
erhaps running from a terminal (which means a shell) will set the environment from ~/.bashrc before starting the application.
Why not try that ?
That is what I do. It was my 'Step 2'.
I meant as an experimental step to differentiate between functionality
The need for a second step is doubtful. I'm sure some KDE developer will argue this is how it should be. But that would be pure nonsense.
I agree. But I also agree that
* settings, once set should be 'remembered' not only across further invocation but across sessions, including the start-up of programs at the beginning of sessions (I mean the global environmental settings, not the setting they had when they were previously started recorded and use again)
* this should be part of KDE not something you have to set in ~/.xinitrc
Setting the language so it is only used partially is like being partially pregnant. Meaning that is is in the category of things that are either all on or all off. There is no logical between.
Actually it is. The thing is that the ENVIRONMENT is exported unless you change it.
My point was that it WAS NOT set in KDE start up, but was set (by the ~/.bashrc) when a shell is started under Konsole.
I suspect the same holds with other session managers.
But that won't help with session restore? Or will it? Either way, putting something in ~/.xinitrc that is shared with or calls or sources ~/.bashrc might be more useful and more generic..
It is a more pervasive thing. Take openOffice: KDE shows the ICON on the desktop in the selected locale, but when you start the program, it reverts to English. The locale info is not passed on.
I'm unclear what you mean about "shows the icon" in a locale.
And there is also the matter of how OpenOffice is configured.
I can run
$ LANG=de_DE oowriter
and it will come up in English because I have it set to "English" in Menu: Tools -> Options -> Languages
In my experience, the command line and config file over-rides the environment; whether the command line over-rides the config file isn't always consistent. I think it should be. But then not all settings can be controlled on the command line.
Linux uses the locale mechanism to control things like language. If KDE is letting you select the desktop language, it must use that mechanism to communicate this information in the standard Linux method. Simple, really.
NOT!
Some things like OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, InkSkape and Gimp also run on other platforms that don't follow those conventions.
On top of which, as I say, there are individual config files for applications, and those will over-ride the environment settings, be they from bash or KDE
Of course. But focus on the Konsole/shell situation, which I think pretty much sums up the mistake (an omission I suspect). As to the various per-app config files: of course you can set things to override global options. However, and this is the core of my argument: when you set something at a global level, and you do not mess with a per-app config, the global setting should apply. Surely the locale setting done for KDE is expected to be global to all processes started by KDE. Period.
I've pointed how KDE can be invoked with no LANG set in its environment (i.e. nothing in the global xinitrc, nothing in `/.xinitrc) but its children can have LANG set from the ~/.bashrc or other sources. Those sources can be specific to the application and can over-ride the KDE setting.
You are missing my point.
The language database that is compiled and that these programs draw on may be standard, but that's another matter.
The databases and all are just how KDE goes about acting on the locale settings. I am talking about how the information about locale propagates, not how it is acted on.
I don't see any confusion here.
Local overrides global. That's how its always been.
I am not concerned that a LANG setting in my .bashrc would override what KDE does. That is expected. If, OTOH, I do not set LANG at all in my .bashrc, I am not overriding anything. If I set locale in KDE, and KDE starts a Konsole that starts a shell (both Konsole and the shell in it are children of KDE, so to speak), I would expect KDE to pass along the locale to to the programs it has started. Same for OpenOffice started from a KDE desktop ICON. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org