[opensuse] setting locale in openSUSE / KDE
When I want to switch to a new locale, I need to make multiple changes: 1. Select the locale in KDE (Configure Desktop -> Locale). This results on all KDE using that locale. But that is not enough to make everything use the new locale. 2. Add LANG=whatever to my .bashrc file. As an example, if I do step 1, the openOffice ICON is in the language of the KDE locale. However, openOffice itself fill not be in that locale unless I do step 2. This applies to all non-KDE applications. The 'locale' command in a Konsole, for example, does not reflect the KDE setting done in step 1. It will be correct only if I do step 2. The editing of .bashrc seems the odd step. Am I missing something? -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2010-11-26 at 13:56 +0100, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
When I want to switch to a new locale, I need to make multiple changes:
1. Select the locale in KDE (Configure Desktop -> Locale). This results on all KDE using that locale.
But that is not enough to make everything use the new locale.
Obviously. KDE only mandates in KDE.
2. Add LANG=whatever to my .bashrc file.
No, edit ~/.i18n. ... Blame KDE. Gnome does follow the user LANG. KDE has its own, independent system :-p - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEUEARECAAYFAkzwVtcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VEwACY7aEGyNF8chnzhG/dJc4qxttT xgCaAq+ENPOkGY3deb7x1dEoZJ7ZKqc= =1+IV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2010-11-27 at 01:54 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On Friday, 2010-11-26 at 13:56 +0100, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
When I want to switch to a new locale, I need to make multiple changes:
1. Select the locale in KDE (Configure Desktop -> Locale). This results on all KDE using that locale.
But that is not enough to make everything use the new locale.
Obviously. KDE only mandates in KDE.
2. Add LANG=whatever to my .bashrc file.
No, edit ~/.i18n.
Still, a second step is needed.
Blame KDE. Gnome does follow the user LANG. KDE has its own, independent system :-p
OK. I can only assume it is either a bug, or it is implemented by someone who does not really use a localized environment or have a clear understanding of the requirements for one. If the desktop starts, say, konsole, with all it's menus in the selected language, why does it not also set the LANG environment variable to match? As it stands, konsole has a split personality. It has all it's menus in the selected language, but does not tell the shell it is running to do the same. This is true is all non-KDE applications. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2010-11-28 at 15:56 +0100, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Sat, 2010-11-27 at 01:54 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
2. Add LANG=whatever to my .bashrc file.
No, edit ~/.i18n.
Still, a second step is needed.
Yes, of course.
Blame KDE. Gnome does follow the user LANG. KDE has its own, independent system :-p
OK. I can only assume it is either a bug, or it is implemented by someone who does not really use a localized environment or have a clear understanding of the requirements for one.
More likely a feature :-p
If the desktop starts, say, konsole, with all it's menus in the selected language, why does it not also set the LANG environment variable to match? As it stands, konsole has a split personality. It has all it's menus in the selected language, but does not tell the shell it is running to do the same. This is true is all non-KDE applications.
Yes, you are right, but it is the design it has. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkzyYzEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W/4QCfbri3x89a/FP4CwLzJKOpxK2l acQAniUE9OSFUArRlACATGp9DswEkuhm =iYFE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 15:11 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes, you are right, but it is the design it has.
I suspect it is more an oversight (KDE not passing on it's locale environment to it's children) more than a specific design requirement. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/28/2010 12:13 PM:
On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 15:11 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes, you are right, but it is the design it has.
I suspect it is more an oversight (KDE not passing on it's locale environment to it's children) more than a specific design requirement.
Easy to test. zap your ~/.bashrc and ~/.bash_profile and ~/.bash_login and make sure there's nothing in /etc setting LANG then start a shell from KDE. Look in that environment. Change the setting in KDE and repeat. -- If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities. -- Voltaire -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 11:59 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/28/2010 12:13 PM:
On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 15:11 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Yes, you are right, but it is the design it has.
I suspect it is more an oversight (KDE not passing on it's locale environment to it's children) more than a specific design requirement.
Easy to test.
zap your ~/.bashrc and ~/.bash_profile and ~/.bash_login and make sure there's nothing in /etc setting LANG
then start a shell from KDE. Look in that environment.
Change the setting in KDE and repeat.
My original post was describing my findings as a result of just that test. Setting a language in KDE does propagate to non-KDE applications started by KDE. In Konsole, type 'locale' and you will see that the required and standard Linux settings have simply not been done in the shell running in KDE. I use Konsole as a simple example because it is so obvious. Also, as I think the shell that Konsole runs is pretty much all Konsole is about, having it not tell that shell the locale info seems odd. I will file a bug report at KDE. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2010-11-29 at 08:11 +0100, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
My original post was describing my findings as a result of just that test. Setting a language in KDE does propagate to non-KDE applications
should have been 'does not propagate to'
started by KDE. In Konsole, type 'locale' and you will see that the required and standard Linux settings have simply not been done in the shell running in KDE. I use Konsole as a simple example because it is so obvious. Also, as I think the shell that Konsole runs is pretty much all Konsole is about, having it not tell that shell the locale info seems
-- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/26/2010 07:56 AM:
When I want to switch to a new locale, I need to make multiple changes:
1. Select the locale in KDE (Configure Desktop -> Locale). This results on all KDE using that locale.
But that is not enough to make everything use the new locale.
2. Add LANG=whatever to my .bashrc file.
As an example, if I do step 1, the openOffice ICON is in the language of the KDE locale. However, openOffice itself fill not be in that locale unless I do step 2. This applies to all non-KDE applications. The 'locale' command in a Konsole, for example, does not reflect the KDE setting done in step 1. It will be correct only if I do step 2.
The editing of .bashrc seems the odd step. Am I missing something?
This is what I observe and deduce. A 'ps -ef' gives me root 3145 3067 0 07:34 ? 00:00:00 -:0 anton 4091 3145 0 07:46 ? 00:00:00 /bin/sh /usr/bin/startkde I look at cat /proc/4091/environ| tr '\000' '\n' (so as to see the strings) and I don't see any environment setting there. That's becuase I don't have anything in my ~/.xinitrc So any application I start from the menu or ~/.kde4/Autostart or session restart isn't going to have that set either. There's a Q.E.D. at this point, but lets look furhter. I have a Konsole open. anton 4726 1 0 07:47 ? 00:00:08 kdeinit4: konsole [kdeinit] -session 10b1e26742000125046551500000039700025_1290902959_343241 -name Qt-subapplication and that doesn't have a LANG either. You may want to check various bashrc.local and bashrc.expert along the way, though. But the shells I start under the Konsole ... anton 4735 4726 0 07:47 pts/2 00:00:00 /bin/bash anton 4741 4726 0 07:47 pts/0 00:00:00 /bin/bash anton 4747 4726 0 07:47 pts/1 00:00:00 /bin/bash anton 4753 4726 0 07:47 pts/3 00:00:00 /usr/bin/ssh -l root localhost each has LANGUAGE= LANG=en_US.UTF-8 in their environment. So, starting applications from the KDE menu, not least of all Gnome applications like OpenOfice, Thunderbird, Firefox and Gimp, won't set the LANG environment. They are started directly. OH WAIT! In the menu editor there is the option Advanced -> Run In Terminal [] and options for therein. perhaps running from a terminal (which means a shell) will set the environment from ~/.bashrc before starting the application. Why not try that ? But that won't help with session restore? Or will it? Either way, putting something in ~/.xinitrc that is shared with or calls or sources ~/.bashrc might be more useful and more generic.. -- "Realizing the importance of the case, my men are rounding up twice the number of usual suspects" - Cpt Renault to Major Strasser, Cassablanaca -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 11:05 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
erhaps running from a terminal (which means a shell) will set the environment from ~/.bashrc before starting the application.
Why not try that ?
That is what I do. It was my 'Step 2'. The need for a second step is doubtful. I'm sure some KDE developer will argue this is how it should be. But that would be pure nonsense. Setting the language so it is only used partially is like being partially pregnant. Meaning that is is in the category of things that are either all on or all off. There is no logical between.
But that won't help with session restore? Or will it? Either way, putting something in ~/.xinitrc that is shared with or calls or sources ~/.bashrc might be more useful and more generic..
It is a more pervasive thing. Take openOffice: KDE shows the ICON on the desktop in the selected locale, but when you start the program, it reverts to English. The locale info is not passed on. Linux uses the locale mechanism to control things like language. If KDE is letting you select the desktop language, it must use that mechanism to communicate this information in the standard Linux method. Simple, really. -- Roger Oberholter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/28/2010 12:22 PM:
On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 11:05 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
erhaps running from a terminal (which means a shell) will set the environment from ~/.bashrc before starting the application.
Why not try that ?
That is what I do. It was my 'Step 2'.
I meant as an experimental step to differentiate between functionality
The need for a second step is doubtful. I'm sure some KDE developer will argue this is how it should be. But that would be pure nonsense.
I agree. But I also agree that * settings, once set should be 'remembered' not only across further invocation but across sessions, including the start-up of programs at the beginning of sessions (I mean the global environmental settings, not the setting they had when they were previously started recorded and use again) * this should be part of KDE not something you have to set in ~/.xinitrc
Setting the language so it is only used partially is like being partially pregnant. Meaning that is is in the category of things that are either all on or all off. There is no logical between.
Actually it is. The thing is that the ENVIRONMENT is exported unless you change it. My point was that it WAS NOT set in KDE start up, but was set (by the ~/.bashrc) when a shell is started under Konsole. I suspect the same holds with other session managers.
But that won't help with session restore? Or will it? Either way, putting something in ~/.xinitrc that is shared with or calls or sources ~/.bashrc might be more useful and more generic..
It is a more pervasive thing. Take openOffice: KDE shows the ICON on the desktop in the selected locale, but when you start the program, it reverts to English. The locale info is not passed on.
I'm unclear what you mean about "shows the icon" in a locale. And there is also the matter of how OpenOffice is configured. I can run $ LANG=de_DE oowriter and it will come up in English because I have it set to "English" in Menu: Tools -> Options -> Languages In my experience, the command line and config file over-rides the environment; whether the command line over-rides the config file isn't always consistent. I think it should be. But then not all settings can be controlled on the command line.
Linux uses the locale mechanism to control things like language. If KDE is letting you select the desktop language, it must use that mechanism to communicate this information in the standard Linux method. Simple, really.
NOT! Some things like OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, InkSkape and Gimp also run on other platforms that don't follow those conventions. On top of which, as I say, there are individual config files for applications, and those will over-ride the environment settings, be they from bash or KDE I've pointed how KDE can be invoked with no LANG set in its environment (i.e. nothing in the global xinitrc, nothing in `/.xinitrc) but its children can have LANG set from the ~/.bashrc or other sources. Those sources can be specific to the application and can over-ride the KDE setting. The language database that is compiled and that these programs draw on may be standard, but that's another matter. I don't see any confusion here. Local overrides global. That's how its always been. -- In the beginning was The Word and The Word was Content-type: text/plain -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 12:01 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/28/2010 12:22 PM:
On Sun, 2010-11-28 at 11:05 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
erhaps running from a terminal (which means a shell) will set the environment from ~/.bashrc before starting the application.
Why not try that ?
That is what I do. It was my 'Step 2'.
I meant as an experimental step to differentiate between functionality
The need for a second step is doubtful. I'm sure some KDE developer will argue this is how it should be. But that would be pure nonsense.
I agree. But I also agree that
* settings, once set should be 'remembered' not only across further invocation but across sessions, including the start-up of programs at the beginning of sessions (I mean the global environmental settings, not the setting they had when they were previously started recorded and use again)
* this should be part of KDE not something you have to set in ~/.xinitrc
Setting the language so it is only used partially is like being partially pregnant. Meaning that is is in the category of things that are either all on or all off. There is no logical between.
Actually it is. The thing is that the ENVIRONMENT is exported unless you change it.
My point was that it WAS NOT set in KDE start up, but was set (by the ~/.bashrc) when a shell is started under Konsole.
I suspect the same holds with other session managers.
But that won't help with session restore? Or will it? Either way, putting something in ~/.xinitrc that is shared with or calls or sources ~/.bashrc might be more useful and more generic..
It is a more pervasive thing. Take openOffice: KDE shows the ICON on the desktop in the selected locale, but when you start the program, it reverts to English. The locale info is not passed on.
I'm unclear what you mean about "shows the icon" in a locale.
And there is also the matter of how OpenOffice is configured.
I can run
$ LANG=de_DE oowriter
and it will come up in English because I have it set to "English" in Menu: Tools -> Options -> Languages
In my experience, the command line and config file over-rides the environment; whether the command line over-rides the config file isn't always consistent. I think it should be. But then not all settings can be controlled on the command line.
Linux uses the locale mechanism to control things like language. If KDE is letting you select the desktop language, it must use that mechanism to communicate this information in the standard Linux method. Simple, really.
NOT!
Some things like OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, InkSkape and Gimp also run on other platforms that don't follow those conventions.
On top of which, as I say, there are individual config files for applications, and those will over-ride the environment settings, be they from bash or KDE
Of course. But focus on the Konsole/shell situation, which I think pretty much sums up the mistake (an omission I suspect). As to the various per-app config files: of course you can set things to override global options. However, and this is the core of my argument: when you set something at a global level, and you do not mess with a per-app config, the global setting should apply. Surely the locale setting done for KDE is expected to be global to all processes started by KDE. Period.
I've pointed how KDE can be invoked with no LANG set in its environment (i.e. nothing in the global xinitrc, nothing in `/.xinitrc) but its children can have LANG set from the ~/.bashrc or other sources. Those sources can be specific to the application and can over-ride the KDE setting.
You are missing my point.
The language database that is compiled and that these programs draw on may be standard, but that's another matter.
The databases and all are just how KDE goes about acting on the locale settings. I am talking about how the information about locale propagates, not how it is acted on.
I don't see any confusion here.
Local overrides global. That's how its always been.
I am not concerned that a LANG setting in my .bashrc would override what KDE does. That is expected. If, OTOH, I do not set LANG at all in my .bashrc, I am not overriding anything. If I set locale in KDE, and KDE starts a Konsole that starts a shell (both Konsole and the shell in it are children of KDE, so to speak), I would expect KDE to pass along the locale to to the programs it has started. Same for OpenOffice started from a KDE desktop ICON. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/29/2010 02:21 AM:
I am not concerned that a LANG setting in my .bashrc would override what KDE does. That is expected. If, OTOH, I do not set LANG at all in my .bashrc, I am not overriding anything. If I set locale in KDE, and KDE starts a Konsole that starts a shell (both Konsole and the shell in it are children of KDE, so to speak), I would expect KDE to pass along the locale to to the programs it has started. Same for OpenOffice started from a KDE desktop ICON.
I'm not sure that you can set OOo to not use its own settings. -- Clear the battlefield and let me see All the profit from our victory. You talk of freedom, starving children poor. Are you deaf when you hear the season's call? Were you there to watch the earth be scorched? Did you stand beside the spectral torch? Know the leaves of sorrow turned their face, Scattered on the ashes of disgrace. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2010-11-29 at 10:57 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/29/2010 02:21 AM:
I am not concerned that a LANG setting in my .bashrc would override what KDE does. That is expected. If, OTOH, I do not set LANG at all in my .bashrc, I am not overriding anything. If I set locale in KDE, and KDE starts a Konsole that starts a shell (both Konsole and the shell in it are children of KDE, so to speak), I would expect KDE to pass along the locale to to the programs it has started. Same for OpenOffice started from a KDE desktop ICON.
I'm not sure that you can set OOo to not use its own settings.
Like any proper Linux program, it uses the locale environment variables. I have verified this. If KDE would propagate them, it would all work like magic. There is no need to configure openOffice to get the menus and all in language X. I can't say how much further OO takes this into the documents you edit (spelling checks and paper size, for example). But the OO user interface correctly follows locale settings. Carlos E. R. (earlier in this thread) says that GNOME propagates the locale info. Not that this would carry much weight in KDE circles, I guess. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 29 Nov 2010 15:59:32 Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Mon, 2010-11-29 at 10:57 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/29/2010 02:21 AM:
I am not concerned that a LANG setting in my .bashrc would override what KDE does. That is expected. If, OTOH, I do not set LANG at all in my .bashrc, I am not overriding anything. If I set locale in KDE, and KDE starts a Konsole that starts a shell (both Konsole and the shell in it are children of KDE, so to speak), I would expect KDE to pass along the locale to to the programs it has started. Same for OpenOffice started from a KDE desktop ICON.
Totally agree. Things like "Locale" should ever only be set in one place, it makes common sense. It like having system setting for fonts etc. I just wish i was capable of pulling all window and screen config into one place with a single icon, I can never remember where all the separate config items live. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/29/2010 10:59 AM:
I'm not sure that you can set OOo to not use its own settings.
Like any proper Linux program, it uses the locale environment variables.
Not it doesn't As I said in an earlier message, I tried $ LANG=de_DE oowriter and because I had previously set the internal language to English (en_US) that what it stayed at. OOo ignored the environment.
I have verified this. If KDE would propagate them, it would all work like magic. There is no need to configure openOffice to get the menus and all in language X.
That may be so, but the question I asked was a bit different. I have them set inside OOo; I can't see how to set them to 'nothing'. Presumably if I could then I could test to see if OOo paid attention at all to the value of LANG in its environment.
I can't say how much further OO takes this into the documents you edit (spelling checks and paper size, for example). But the OO user interface correctly follows locale settings.
The screen at oowriter: tools -> options -> language setings -> language has Language of User Interface -- Pulldown field Locale Setting -- Pulldown field Neither pulldown has a 'nothing' or 'use enviroment' option. You HAVE to choose some setting. And as I said, with the envirment set to 'de_DE' they are both 'english' and 'german' does not apear as an option for the first.
From this I conclude that the OOo user interace DOES NOT follow lcoale settings.
The screen also has Default Languages for Documents: -- Pulldown field. If I manually set that to 'german' -it isn't set by the environment - the yes the dcoument wants german text and spelling.
Carlos E. R. (earlier in this thread) says that GNOME propagates the locale info. Not that this would carry much weight in KDE circles, I guess.
OOo, Firefox, Thunderbird and a few others like Gimp and InkSkape are Gnome-native, not KDE native. I don't have Gnome laoded so I can't try out the obvious tests like "set langauge under Gnome the invoke under KDE". But I suspect that there are many programmes that neither export not import from the environment. Ultimately its a case of "Use the Source, Luke" However I don't have time to wade through it all. -- Only the refusal to listen guarantees one against being ensnared by the truth. --Nozick -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2010-11-29 at 12:22 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
The screen at oowriter: tools -> options -> language setings -> language has
Language of User Interface -- Pulldown field Locale Setting -- Pulldown field
Neither pulldown has a 'nothing' or 'use enviroment' option. You HAVE to choose some setting.
You can choose "default", which is the one taken from the environment.
Carlos E. R. (earlier in this thread) says that GNOME propagates the locale info. Not that this would carry much weight in KDE circles, I guess.
OOo, Firefox, Thunderbird and a few others like Gimp and InkSkape are Gnome-native, not KDE native. I don't have Gnome laoded so I can't try out the obvious tests like "set langauge under Gnome the invoke under KDE".
In gnome, you set the language by changing the environment, so all programs inherit that environment. And the easiest way is to change the little known file ~/.i18n. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkz0F30ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UdtwCgkrHLi+Ddeuzv5OcLvjz/RqT3 tIgAnAgauvSdA8ueRY/oOI5v4ze/1JY5 =UqUr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. said the following on 11/29/2010 04:13 PM:
On Monday, 2010-11-29 at 12:22 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
The screen at oowriter: tools -> options -> language setings -> language has
Language of User Interface -- Pulldown field Locale Setting -- Pulldown field
Neither pulldown has a 'nothing' or 'use enviroment' option. You HAVE to choose some setting.
You can choose "default", which is the one taken from the environment.
No it isn't I'm sorry, but I tried this. I created a "German" C-shell, just to be sure that the bash settings had nothing to do with it. I unset then reset LANG to "de_DE". In oowriter started from that environment the menus etc were all in English That pulldown had TWO settings The read Default - English (US) and English (UK) But then even if I start kwrite, all its settings are "English". -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2010-11-29 at 17:39 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
Carlos E. R. said the following on 11/29/2010 04:13 PM:
On Monday, 2010-11-29 at 12:22 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
The screen at oowriter: tools -> options -> language setings -> language has
Language of User Interface -- Pulldown field Locale Setting -- Pulldown field
Neither pulldown has a 'nothing' or 'use enviroment' option. You HAVE to choose some setting.
You can choose "default", which is the one taken from the environment.
No it isn't
I'm sorry, but I tried this.
I created a "German" C-shell, just to be sure that the bash settings had nothing to do with it. I unset then reset LANG to "de_DE".
In oowriter started from that environment the menus etc were all in English
That pulldown had TWO settings The read
Default - English (US) and English (UK)
But then even if I start kwrite, all its settings are "English".
ALL the needed translation fies are installed? There are a number of them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2010-11-29 at 17:39 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
Carlos E. R. said the following on 11/29/2010 04:13 PM:
You can choose "default", which is the one taken from the environment.
No it isn't
I'm sorry, but I tried this.
I created a "German" C-shell, just to be sure that the bash settings had nothing to do with it. I unset then reset LANG to "de_DE".
In oowriter started from that environment the menus etc were all in English
I assume you started oowriter from inside that C-shell?
But then even if I start kwrite, all its settings are "English".
KDE ignores LANG. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkz07soACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X+0gCdFDjJdgEyrAq5ufgroF2n8Gul pxQAn3zHQFfmYpBPuLGl48OpiWXeuAri =JCKE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2010-11-29 at 12:22 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/29/2010 10:59 AM:
I'm not sure that you can set OOo to not use its own settings.
Like any proper Linux program, it uses the locale environment variables.
Not it doesn't As I said in an earlier message, I tried
$ LANG=de_DE oowriter
and because I had previously set the internal language to English (en_US) that what it stayed at. OOo ignored the environment.
Odd. I did the same with Russian and it worked. Of course, I had to be sure the Russian translations were installed. Before that the setting was ignored. This works on openSUSE 11.2. And I just tried it on openSUSE 11.4 M4 and LibreOffice and it works: LANG=ru_RU oowriter I just installed the German localization files for oo, and, it works too, using your command. Exactly as I described. Be sure you do not have any oo stuff already running. I think the first process sets the locale. If you start another oowriter, it seems to inherit the already running guy's locale. Do you have the oo quickstart running? I don't.
I have verified this. If KDE would propagate them, it would all work like magic. There is no need to configure openOffice to get the menus and all in language X.
That may be so, but the question I asked was a bit different. I have them set inside OOo; I can't see how to set them to 'nothing'. Presumably if I could then I could test to see if OOo paid attention at all to the value of LANG in its environment.
I have not changed anything in oo for locale. They are in their virgin state. Whatever that is. My changes are effected fully by LANG. In my case, set in my .bashrc file. But I see it also works on the command line as shown above.
I can't say how much further OO takes this into the documents you edit (spelling checks and paper size, for example). But the OO user interface correctly follows locale settings.
The screen at oowriter: tools -> options -> language setings -> language has
Language of User Interface -- Pulldown field Locale Setting -- Pulldown field
Neither pulldown has a 'nothing' or 'use enviroment' option. You HAVE to choose some setting.
The default is English (USA). I just tried on a system where oo had never been run. This is consistent with the general locale system where English is usually the default.
And as I said, with the envirment set to 'de_DE' they are both 'english' and 'german' does not apear as an option for the first.
I do not know that this would effect the items selected in the menu items here. But I know it effects the text in ALL oo menus.
From this I conclude that the OOo user interace DOES NOT follow lcoale settings.
Sorry I don't come to the same conclusion. LANG= works as expected. Provided the needed RPMs are installed. I can report the rpms I have on Thursday when I get back to the office. No translations are installed by default.
The screen also has
Default Languages for Documents: -- Pulldown field.
If I manually set that to 'german' -it isn't set by the environment - the yes the dcoument wants german text and spelling.
Carlos E. R. (earlier in this thread) says that GNOME propagates the locale info. Not that this would carry much weight in KDE circles, I guess.
OOo, Firefox, Thunderbird and a few others like Gimp and InkSkape are Gnome-native, not KDE native. I don't have Gnome laoded so I can't try out the obvious tests like "set langauge under Gnome the invoke under KDE".
But I suspect that there are many programmes that neither export not import from the environment.
This is true. The app has to support it. We are adding this to our software. That is why I am actively checking this. -- Roger Oberholtzer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/29/2010 06:25 PM:
Sorry I don't come to the same conclusion. LANG= works as expected. Provided the needed RPMs are installed. I can report the rpms I have on Thursday when I get back to the office. No translations are installed by default.
I removed the ooquickstart along with a pile of other kde3 things a while back I just installed the OOo German packages. Once again the C-shell with LANG=de_DE oowriter started from the command line And still the "default" is English (USA)
This works on openSUSE 11.2. And I just tried it on openSUSE 11.4 M4 and LibreOffice and it works:
This is Linux 2.6.37-rc3-3-pae #1 SMP 2010-11-22 19:48:15 +0100 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux OpenOffice_org-writer-3.2.1.6-1.1.i586 OpenOffice_org-LanguageTool-1.0.0-5.1.noarch OpenOffice_org-LanguageTool-de-1.0.0-5.1.noarch OpenOffice_org-LanguageTool-en-1.0.0-5.1.noarch -- Entropy isn't what it used to be. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2010-11-29 at 19:10 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
And still the "default" is English (USA)
You have to do ~> LANG=de_DE.utf8 oowrite assuming there is nothing oo related running already, and that the DE files for oo are installed (all of them) - ie, that selecting german in the oo menu works. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkz08QQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X58wCgiEy4h/XHb7ZoMp+3yQgxsGym 84EAnihX1ufTZbZx0/Wdi6+MtS7fvgeQ =ipk/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2010-11-29 at 19:10 -0500, Anton Aylward wrote:
Roger Oberholtzer said the following on 11/29/2010 06:25 PM:
Sorry I don't come to the same conclusion. LANG= works as expected. Provided the needed RPMs are installed. I can report the rpms I have on Thursday when I get back to the office. No translations are installed by default.
I removed the ooquickstart along with a pile of other kde3 things a while back
I just installed the OOo German packages. Once again the C-shell with LANG=de_DE oowriter started from the command line
And still the "default" is English (USA)
Maybe we are talking different things. I mean that all the menus are in German when I set the LANG as described. I do not know what the menu item to select the menu language is set to. It seemed irrelevant as the LANG variable was getting it in the language I specify with LANG. So you mean that all your menus are still in English? Or that the item selected in one of the menus is still English (default)?
This works on openSUSE 11.2. And I just tried it on openSUSE 11.4 M4 and LibreOffice and it works:
This is Linux 2.6.37-rc3-3-pae #1 SMP 2010-11-22 19:48:15 +0100 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux OpenOffice_org-writer-3.2.1.6-1.1.i586 OpenOffice_org-LanguageTool-1.0.0-5.1.noarch OpenOffice_org-LanguageTool-de-1.0.0-5.1.noarch OpenOffice_org-LanguageTool-en-1.0.0-5.1.noarch
OpenOffice_org-LanguageTool-ru-1.0.0-3.4.noarch
For Russian, I have these (not by the one with German now - but they were the same ones): OpenOffice_org-l10n-ru-3.2.1.6-1.1.noarch OpenOffice_org-thesaurus-ru-20081013-22.1.noarch OpenOffice_org-help-ru-3.2.1.6-2.1.noarch OpenOffice_org-templates-ru-3-8.1.noarch I guess there is a 'de' variant of each of these. Silly question: does this work if you do it in bash? I guess LANG=de_DE locale prints: LANG=de_DE LC_CTYPE="de_DE" LC_NUMERIC="de_DE" LC_TIME="de_DE" LC_COLLATE="de_DE" LC_MONETARY="de_DE" LC_MESSAGES="de_DE" LC_PAPER="de_DE" LC_NAME="de_DE" LC_ADDRESS="de_DE" LC_TELEPHONE="de_DE" LC_MEASUREMENT="de_DE" LC_IDENTIFICATION="de_DE" LC_ALL=
-- Entropy isn't what it used to be.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2010-11-30 at 00:25 +0100, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
This is true. The app has to support it. We are adding this to our software. That is why I am actively checking this.
Then I'd mention again that the proper place is in the file ~/.i18n, not bashrc. However, there is a bug in 11.2 at least that makes gnome ignore it, but there is a manual "hack". The Bugzilla is marked solved, so I assume the patch is in an update (I'm unsure). The idea is that the file should be imported by all shells or environments. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.2 x86_64 "Emerald" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkz08AMACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WngACdELVwzHBTNcxDsYAciUyd3DxX KPUAnRcL3Xnr2OFt1qyWmi2ruo5wT2s0 =onOa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
ianseeks＠dsl.pipex.com -
Roger Oberholtzer