[opensuse-translation] Tier-2 languages in RC1
After I, and my three team members have invested a lot of time and emotions in translating 10.2 into Danish I was shocked to find out that no tier-2 translations were included on RC1 dvd5, since they were there in beta2. If my information is correct, this is what happened. There was no room for translations on dvd9, noone knows why. Since it was planned to not include the language addon cd in the box, again noone understands why, this meant no tier-2 translations in the box. To avoid hurting the feelings of paying customers the tier-2 translations were removed from dvd5 too. Maybe I'm too emotional about this, but I'm literally in shock. This will make things pretty difficult for all non-english, non-german, non-french, non-spanish, non-czech, non-italian, non-<certain asians> to get a localized product. People already complain a lot about the download size of openSUSE.. now they need a dvd _and_ an addon cd, and people buy a box and they don't get a localized product. Furthermore I think this is disrespectful to the volunteer tier-2 language translators, that noone will use now. Because if the MS-deal and FUD didn't scare 'em the download size and trouble involved with localzing the stuff will. And the solution is simple I think. Put the damn language add-on CD in the freaking box or _make_ room on the DVD9. And then put the translations back on the damn DVD5. If necessary raise the price for the box with €1 or €2.. or make a special box for tier-2 countries that costs €2 more, so only those of us who've made the mistake of living in small countries will bare the costs, without others having to suffer. Martin PS. How does one instruct zen-updater to use a different language? I have installed the Danish packages in the Language filter in YaST, but zen-updater remains English. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
Torsdag 23 november 2006 16:24, skrev Martin Schlander:
and people buy a box and they don't get a localized product.
This is really weird if it is true. I can understand that you may have to download the extra "language CD" with the downloadable version of openSUSE but not including it in the box makes very little sense to me. The reason why many people (me included) buy a box in stead of downloading ISO's is low bandwidth (apart from the convenience of course). It would be very disappointing to buy the openSuse box and then discover that you still had to download an add-on CD if you want a localized version. I hope you are wrong about this. Olav -- Olav Pettershagen Grøndalen NO-2429 Tørberget Tel. +47 62454707 Mob. +47 48141781 http://home.online.no/~olav.pet/current_view.jpg --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
Torsdag 23 november 2006 18:23 skrev Olav Pettershagen:
I can understand that you may have to download the extra "language CD" with the downloadable version of openSUSE but not including it in the box makes very little sense to me.
The reason why many people (me included) buy a box in stead of downloading ISO's is low bandwidth (apart from the convenience of course). It would be very disappointing to buy the openSuse box and then discover that you still had to download an add-on CD if you want a localized version.
I hope you are wrong about this.
I hope so too, but I don't think so. I asked on IRC why there were only yast-translations for tier2 on the dvd5 of rc1, the answer was that translations had been removed from dvd5 because there were no room for tier2 translations on dvd9, and to avoid paying customers having a worse product than the mooching downloaders, translations were thus removed from dvd5 too. I'd very much like to know which packages are so much more important than the translations. Since the dvd5 is now only 3,4 gigs. Besides 64-bit OOo was dropped, so the dvd9 will only have one set of OOo packages, you would think that dvd9 should have plenty of space to include the x86, x86_64 and noarch packages from the dvd5s, and then some. But obviously something a lot more important than our translations must be on the dvd9, even though cd and dvd5 does fine without it, whatever it is. I don't get it, at all. Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
We've added now the following tier 2 languages to the CDs (!) and DVD5: Danish, polish, hungarian, dutch, finish, cambodian, norwegian. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Op dinsdag 28 november 2006 20:28, schreef Andreas Jaeger:
We've added now the following tier 2 languages to the CDs (!) and DVD5: Danish, polish, hungarian, dutch, finish, cambodian, norwegian.
Thanks!! Regards, Rinse --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
Andreas Jaeger napisał(a):
We've added now the following tier 2 languages to the CDs (!) and DVD5: Danish, polish, hungarian, dutch, finish, cambodian, norwegian.
This is very good news :-) Thanks! Take care, Stanisław Małolepszy -- aviary.pl l10n team http://aviary.pl --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
--- StanisÅaw MaÅolepszy <smalolepszy@aviary.pl> wrote:
We've added now the following tier 2 languages to
Andreas Jaeger napisaÅ(a): the CDs (!) and
DVD5: Danish, polish, hungarian, dutch, finish, cambodian, norwegian.
This is very good news :-) Thanks!
Can't say the same on behalf of the (one-man) Ukrainian translation team. :( Regards, Ivan Petrouchtchak ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
IIP <ivanpetrouchtchak@yahoo.com> writes:
--- Stanis�aw Ma�olepszy <smalolepszy@aviary.pl> wrote:
We've added now the following tier 2 languages to
Andreas Jaeger napisa�(a): the CDs (!) and
DVD5: Danish, polish, hungarian, dutch, finish, cambodian, norwegian.
This is very good news :-) Thanks!
Can't say the same on behalf of the (one-man) Ukrainian translation team. :(
Sorry, the space just did not fit - you did a great job and we seek great ideas for 10.3. You can - and that's an improvement from 10.1 - download our language add-on to get the missing pieces. Note: Ukranian installation is possible with Yast, just runtime packages are missing, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
--- Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.de> wrote:
IIP <ivanpetrouchtchak@yahoo.com> writes:
--- Stanisà �aw Maà �olepszy <smalolepszy@aviary.pl> wrote:
We've added now the following tier 2 languages to
Andreas Jaeger napisaà �(a): the CDs (!) and
DVD5: Danish, polish, hungarian, dutch, finish, cambodian, norwegian.
This is very good news :-) Thanks!
Can't say the same on behalf of the (one-man) Ukrainian translation team. :(
Sorry, the space just did not fit - you did a great job and we seek great ideas for 10.3. You can - and that's an improvement from 10.1 - download our language add-on to get the missing pieces.
I just installed 10.2 rc1 and Language Add-on CD does not contain Ukrainian KDE translation package kde-i18n-uk. Could someone look into it and fix it. Or should I just file a bug report? Thank you, Ivan Petrouchtchak ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
Can't say the same on behalf of the (one-man) Ukrainian translation team. :(
Sorry, the space just did not fit You can - and that's an improvement from 10.1 - download our language add-on to get the missing pieces.
I just installed 10.2 rc1 and Language Add-on CD does not contain Ukrainian KDE translation package kde-i18n-uk. Could someone look into it and fix it. Or should I just file a bug report?
Just got this comment about my bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=224795 Resolution| LATER ------- Comment #1 from lrupp@novell.com 2006-12-07 Sorry - I missed this one for the final goldmaster. :-( So kde3-i18n-uk will only be available on the FTP repositories (the ones you can enable during the second part of installation). => Added kde3-i18n-uk and aspell-uk for 10.3 --------------------------------- This is completely unacceptable. It even further crippled the Ukrainian translation of the openSUSE 10.2 Regards, Ivan Petrouchtchak Ukrainian translation coordinator - KDE & SUSE ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
IIP <ivanpetrouchtchak@yahoo.com> writes:
So kde3-i18n-uk will only be available on the FTP repositories (the ones you can enable during the second part of installation). => Added kde3-i18n-uk and aspell-uk for 10.3 ---------------------------------
This is completely unacceptable. It even further crippled the Ukrainian translation of the openSUSE 10.2
Yes, that's not the most userfriendly solution, but in the end users will be able to conquer such issues. Downloading two additional packages will hopefully be acceptable for any user. During the 10.2 lifetime some more downloads are probably required because of bug fixes or other enhancements. We should try our best to document it as good as possible. -- Karl Eichwalder R&D / Documentation SUSE Linux Products GmbH GPG: 1024D/06EB882E B2A3 AF2F CFC8 40B1 67EA 475A 5903 A21B 06EB 882E --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
Hello, Please could someone explain, why only translations with >= 98% translated messages were included? I mean from where have you taken this number? Furthermore why have you counted yast and lcn translated messages (not kde or OOo) to make a decision about inclusion this or that tier-2 language in the dvd? Thanks. -- Regards, Nikolay Derkach
Tirsdag 12 december 2006 20:14 skrev Nikolay Derkach:
Please could someone explain, why only translations with >= 98% translated messages were included? I mean from where have you taken this number? Furthermore why have you counted yast and lcn translated messages (not kde or OOo) to make a decision about inclusion this or that tier-2 language in the dvd?
There was limited space for additional languages, and AJ was put under pressure by openSUSE translators who were very disappointed by the unexpected regression wrt. inclusion of tier2 languages on dvd5 from b2 -> rc1. I was personally among them. I believe the decision was mainly meant to be a kind of reward for the more active translators. Here are AJs own words: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2006-11/msg00076.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
В сообщении от 13 декабря 2006 10:23 Martin Schlander написал(a):
Tirsdag 12 december 2006 20:14 skrev Nikolay Derkach:
Please could someone explain, why only translations with >= 98% translated messages were included? I mean from where have you taken this number? Furthermore why have you counted yast and lcn translated messages (not kde or OOo) to make a decision about inclusion this or that tier-2 language in the dvd?
There was limited space for additional languages, and AJ was put under pressure by openSUSE translators who were very disappointed by the unexpected regression wrt. inclusion of tier2 languages on dvd5 from b2 -> rc1. I was personally among them.
I believe the decision was mainly meant to be a kind of reward for the more active translators.
Here are AJs own words: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-translation/2006-11/msg00076.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
Thanks for you comment, Martin. I'm abreast of those discussions but couldn't understand those above-mentioned issues. Andreas, Why only 98%-translated languages were included? Not 96% or maybe 90%. And how depends the status of kde, gnome, etc translations on yast ones? So if kde translations are excelent and yast ones are not fine - kde translations are not included. I suppose it's unfairly relative to other translation teams. So if there were some technical difficulties in inclusion translations on dvd5, I think I would be justly to put all the tier-2 languages on the addon cd. -- Regards, Nikolay Derkach
Nikolay Derkach <nderkach@gmail.com> writes:
Andreas,
Why only 98%-translated languages were included? Not 96% or maybe 90%. And how
We only have limited space on the media and I had to make a cut somewhere. Therefore I made this 98 % role - a subjective role but one that could be easily verified.
depends the status of kde, gnome, etc translations on yast ones? So if kde translations are excelent and yast ones are not fine - kde translations are not included. I suppose it's unfairly relative to other translation teams. So
My thinking was that if we have translators that translates YaST and SUSE files so much, then we have enough users for that language.
if there were some technical difficulties in inclusion translations on dvd5, I think I would be justly to put all the tier-2 languages on the addon cd.
Other translation teams complained because of only putting all languages on the addon CD... Yes, you can always improve this - and we need a better solution for 10.3! I'm open for new suggestions! Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Indeed. Thank you from a member of the Danish Tranlation Team. /Martin. ----- Stanisław Małolepszy <smalolepszy@aviary.pl> wrote:
Andreas Jaeger napisał(a):
This is very good news :-) Thanks!
Take care, Stanisław Małolepszy
[DVD5 has Danish translations and more again] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
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Andreas Jaeger kirjoitti viestissään (lähetysaika tiistai, 28. marraskuuta 2006 21:28):
We've added now the following tier 2 languages to the CDs (!) and DVD5: Danish, polish, hungarian, dutch, finish, cambodian, norwegian.
Thanks on behalf of finnish SUSE users. Regards, Jyri Palokangas -- openSUSE 10.2 (X86-64) http://www.kotoistaminen.novell.fi http://www.kotoistaminen.novell.fi/forum/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
THANKS! :) kalman
Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.de> 2006. 11. 28. 20:28 >>>
We've added now the following tier 2 languages to the CDs (!) and DVD5: Danish, polish, hungarian, dutch, finish, cambodian, norwegian. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Tirsdag 28 november 2006 20:28 skrev Andreas Jaeger:
We've added now the following tier 2 languages to the CDs (!) and DVD5: Danish, polish, hungarian, dutch, finish, cambodian, norwegian.
I'm very happy, would be even happier if you could tell us which languages are on cd4 and which on cd5 ;-) .. nice to know in advance. Also, so we can spread the word in our respective communities. I think the aim for 10.3 should be to have all languages on dvd9 and dvd5 + to have cd7 in the box... or maybe do a special edition of the box with cd7 for distribution in tier2-countries. Having tier2 languages on cd4-5 would not be that important to me, provided cd7 will be in the box. I realize that apparently only 15% of users live in tier2 countries, but my estimate is that GNOME isn't used by much more than 15% of users either ;-) Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
I think the aim for 10.3 should be to have all languages on dvd9 and dvd5 + to have cd7 in the box... or maybe do a special edition of the box with cd7 for distribution in tier2-countries.
i think making two separate edition is much higher cost than simply add one more CD. kalman --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
នៅថ្ងៃ ពុធ 29 វិច្ឆិកា 2006 02:28, Andreas Jaeger បានសរសេរថា ៖
We've added now the following tier 2 languages to the CDs (!) and DVD5: Danish, polish, hungarian, dutch, finish, cambodian, norwegian.
Thank you very much! But I noticed that the messages in the URL: http://i18n.opensuse.org/stats/toplist.php for Cambodian (km) is less then other countries' messages. Could you explain why? Thank again, Sokhem
Michael and myself discussed this a bit further and asked our build experts to experiment a bit - and those first experiments are positive enough that I'm confident to tell you about them ;-). We're planning to put all languages that have according to the translation statistics page (http://i18n.opensuse.org/stats/index.php) more than 98 % translated to the media. Note this is the translation status for YaST and software provided by the openSUSE project and Novell folks, it does not include translation status of e.g. GNOME, KDE or OpenOffice.Org. We're working on the details on how exactly to do this - just DVD or also CDs (in that case on CD4+5) - but we're trying to do what can be done. So, this means that the following languages should get on the media - in addition to the existing ones: * Danish (100 %) * Finnish (100 %) * Hungarian (100 %) * Cambodian (99 %) * Norwegian (99 %) * Dutch (98 %) * Polish (99 %) I'm impressed with the level of translation that these teams have done! Note: We master on monday an internal RC2 and will check that everything really fits on the media. Our constraints are the space on the CDs and that the DVD5 should not be larger than 4 GB. I hope that's an acceptable solution for all, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Dnia 2006-11-23 16:24, Użytkownik Martin Schlander napisał:
PS. How does one instruct zen-updater to use a different language? I have installed the Danish packages in the Language filter in YaST, but zen-updater remains English.
This is a bug - the .pot files of zen-updater from svn we translated are obsolete. The original, english strings are different from the ones from .pot, so our translations just don't work. :-/ See: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220264 and https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220296 wadim -- AviaryPL l10n team e-mail: w.dziedzic@aviary.pl jabber: nikdo@jabberpl.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
wadim dziedzic <nikdo@aviary.pl> writes:
Dnia 2006-11-23 16:24, Użytkownik Martin Schlander napisał:
PS. How does one instruct zen-updater to use a different language? I have installed the Danish packages in the Language filter in YaST, but zen-updater remains English.
This is a bug - the .pot files of zen-updater from svn we translated are obsolete. The original, english strings are different from the ones from .pot, so our translations just don't work. :-/
See: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220264 and https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220296
Are you sure? I just added the new translations to zen-updater, so try the next factory packages... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Andreas Jaeger <aj@suse.de> writes:
wadim dziedzic <nikdo@aviary.pl> writes:
Dnia 2006-11-23 16:24, Użytkownik Martin Schlander napisał:
PS. How does one instruct zen-updater to use a different language? I have installed the Danish packages in the Language filter in YaST, but zen-updater remains English.
This is a bug - the .pot files of zen-updater from svn we translated are obsolete. The original, english strings are different from the ones from .pot, so our translations just don't work. :-/
See: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220264 and https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220296
Are you sure? I just added the new translations to zen-updater, so try the next factory packages...
FYI: It's translated in some language now that looks Danish for me if I start with "LC_ALL=da_DK zen-updater", Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
FYI: It's translated in some language now that looks Danish for me if I start with "LC_ALL=da_DK zen-updater",
The pot file from zen-updater sources (pot file creation 23.10.) has 188 strings, the pot file from our repository has only 171 strings. The pot file in out repository is really out-of-date :-(. But the older pot file should work for main menu strings. If you have a problem with your own po->mo file integration, it can be because of very strange translation using in the zen-updater. -- Klara --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
participants (14)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
IIP -
Jyri Palokangas -
Kalman Kemenczy -
Karl Eichwalder -
Khoem Sokhem -
Klara Cihlarova -
Martin Møller -
Martin Schlander -
Nikolay Derkach -
Olav Pettershagen -
Rinse de Vries -
Stanisław Małolepszy -
wadim dziedzic