[opensuse-project] 1-click's name
So, I'm constantly hearing complaints about 1-click. Am I the only one? Should the 1 click process be shortened? Stephen --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:57 AM, Stephen Shaw <sshaw@decriptor.com> wrote:
So, I'm constantly hearing complaints about 1-click. Am I the only one? Should the 1 click process be shortened?
What does the subject of the email has to do with the content? Anyways, congrats on the maximum vagueness you achieved in your message, its really impossible to tell what are the problems (if they exist, if bugs are opened or not, or what exactly is the so-called complain), and how is the process possibly be shortened or stuff (maybe cut some steps, like installing the package, or solving dependencies, make it run as root without authentication, dont ask for confirmation of the user, that would certainly make it short). I have a suggestion: why not make a script that you could use with "wget -O -q $url/$name | sh" (like in XD2, right?) as root and that would copy and overwrite stuff like some sort of automatix script breaking dependencies? That would shorten the process significantly, and possibly eliminate the complains about 1-click. Who's with me? cheers Marcio --- Druid PS: the 2 or 3 times I've tried one-click it worked 100% perfectly --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Druid <marcio.ferreira@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:57 AM, Stephen Shaw <sshaw@decriptor.com> wrote:
So, I'm constantly hearing complaints about 1-click. Am I the only one? Should the 1 click process be shortened?
What does the subject of the email has to do with the content?
Anyways, congrats on the maximum vagueness you achieved in your message, its really impossible to tell what are the problems (if they exist, if bugs are opened or not, or what exactly is the so-called complain), and how is the process possibly be shortened or stuff (maybe cut some steps, like installing the package, or solving dependencies, make it run as root without authentication, dont ask for confirmation of the user, that would certainly make it short).
I have a suggestion: why not make a script that you could use with "wget -O -q $url/$name | sh" (like in XD2, right?) as root and that would copy and overwrite stuff like some sort of automatix script breaking dependencies? That would shorten the process significantly, and possibly eliminate the complains about 1-click. Who's with me?
cheers
Marcio --- Druid
Sorry for the vagueness. I personally have NO problem with 1-click. I use it often and recommend it just as much. I think the build service is awesome too. I'm not trying to pick on 1-click or offend anyone on the project. What I was meaning to say, was that I have had many people complain to me about the name of 1-click and if the name is 1 click why does it take 8 or 9 clicks to accomplish the task. Please note that I am NOT user X For example: 21:39 < X > Y: uhm, so I just tried out the "1 click install" from the build service.. 21:40 < X > Y: it took me 8 clicks... ? --- snip --- 21:40 < X> yeah, I installed bzr via 1 click at the build service site. --- snip --- 21:42 < X > seems it'd be less clicks if I just downloaded an .rpm directly.. --- snip --- 21:48 < Y > X: a lot of people have commented on that, but what name would you give it 21:49 < X > well not 1 click, that's for sure ;) --- snip --- 21:46 < X > and apturl, which is also a web-based installation shortcut manages the same thing in two clicks. 21:46 < X > one to click the link, one to verify you want it installed.. and dependencies. --- snip --- 21:52 < X > i just don't think that logic makes sense.. may as well call it 'one click email' and 'one click firefox', because those are all 'started with just one click' --- snip --- 21:54 < X > if it were two or three clicks (to verify and one for the password) that'd be reasonable, but 8+ clicks just really makes it stand out. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Druid <marcio.ferreira@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:57 AM, Stephen Shaw <sshaw@decriptor.com> wrote:
So, I'm constantly hearing complaints about 1-click. Am I the only one? Should the 1 click process be shortened?
What does the subject of the email has to do with the content?
Anyways, congrats on the maximum vagueness you achieved in your message, its really impossible to tell what are the problems (if they exist, if bugs are opened or not, or what exactly is the so-called complain), and how is the process possibly be shortened or stuff (maybe cut some steps, like installing the package, or solving dependencies, make it run as root without authentication, dont ask for confirmation of the user, that would certainly make it short).
I have a suggestion: why not make a script that you could use with "wget -O -q $url/$name | sh" (like in XD2, right?) as root and that would copy and overwrite stuff like some sort of automatix script breaking dependencies? That would shorten the process significantly, and possibly eliminate the complains about 1-click. Who's with me?
cheers
Marcio --- Druid
Sorry for the vagueness. I personally have NO problem with 1-click. I use it often and recommend it just as much. I think the build service is awesome too. I'm not trying to pick on 1-click or offend anyone on the project.
What I was meaning to say, was that I have had many people complain to me about the name of 1-click and if the name is 1 click why does it take 8 or 9 clicks to accomplish the task. The general purpose of "1-click" is to tell the users, here is a simple way to install a package. And even with the general 4 clicks or so (my experience) it's still a simple and easy way to install a package. At least myself can
On Friday 13 June 2008, Stephen Shaw wrote: live better with the name "1-click" instead of "5-click" and I hear much more positive feedback than negative. Naming here is definitely kind of marketing driven but it helps here much more than it hurts. M
Please note that I am NOT user X
For example:
21:39 < X > Y: uhm, so I just tried out the "1 click install" from the build service.. 21:40 < X > Y: it took me 8 clicks... ? --- snip --- 21:40 < X> yeah, I installed bzr via 1 click at the build service site. --- snip --- 21:42 < X > seems it'd be less clicks if I just downloaded an .rpm directly.. --- snip --- 21:48 < Y > X: a lot of people have commented on that, but what name would you give it 21:49 < X > well not 1 click, that's for sure ;) --- snip --- 21:46 < X > and apturl, which is also a web-based installation shortcut manages the same thing in two clicks. 21:46 < X > one to click the link, one to verify you want it installed.. and dependencies. --- snip --- 21:52 < X > i just don't think that logic makes sense.. may as well call it 'one click email' and 'one click firefox', because those are all 'started with just one click' --- snip --- 21:54 < X > if it were two or three clicks (to verify and one for the password) that'd be reasonable, but 8+ clicks just really makes it stand out. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Stephen Shaw <sshaw@decriptor.com> wrote:
(trim trim)
For example:
21:39 < X > Y: uhm, so I just tried out the "1 click install" from the build service.. 21:40 < X > Y: it took me 8 clicks... ?
I've assumed it was obvious this issue, but seems not, so let's get on the details. I'm almost certain the "user X" you mention is a gnome user. I can tell that for 2 reasons. One is the silliness of proposing the change of name (like that would cause any effect except for wasting the universe's energy). And two is for focusing great efforts in trying to make it look like a big deal a thing that is almost completely silly. I could add a third, which would be "tell people to change something with absolutely no further thinking on the impact, suitability or importance of that change", or if someone hasn't thought in the past about the optimal solution on that problem (which I'm pretty sure Benjiman did). What one-click does: automate the process of "installing a package with dependency solving" by joining 2 operations: 1) Add all the necessary repos, giving the option to remains subscribed 2) Install the package with the package manager now it can fulfill all dependencies Now how it works. I've installed a package here just to document these steps: 1) You click on the link, it shows a window with the repos it may need to add, and gives the choice to remain subscribed or not. 2) Then it confirms the package and eventually dependencies that will be installed (its important, you may not want to install lots of dependencies or change versions of a certain package). 3) Then it shows a status screen, BEFORE it makes any changes, like in the yast installer, very well done, you can check any problems, have a complete view of the process (this step has a confirmation before going next, exactly like the normal yast installer. 4) After that you type your root password, because thats the way you should install stuff, as root. 5) Then you wait for repos to be added, and package to be installed. 6) There is a screen telling the instalation was successful, and you click finish to end the process. Now, let's ask again the question: what in planet earth is wrong with this elegant well-done consistent logical work-flow for an automated process that respects the package manager stack for the lazy people or people who are not comfortable with the add-repo-then-package schema? Just because your "user X" thinks its way too complicated because you could simply "rpm -i pkg.rpm" (one click! one step!) doesn't mean "user X" statements make any sense. Since "user X" can't even understand what's going on, I believe he should let the thinking for other people with clue. Cheers Marcio --- Druid --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Greetings! Dude, Marcio, take it easy. He's just fielding some feedback that he has gotten from enough users that he thinks we might need to know. I can see where the confusion might come in.. but it's just a name.. and it does indicate the simplicity of the install. Probably don't need to change the name at all. Love the feature, though :^) --David Alston On Fri, 13 Jun 2008, Druid wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 2:30 AM, Stephen Shaw <sshaw@decriptor.com> wrote:
(trim trim)
For example:
21:39 < X > Y: uhm, so I just tried out the "1 click install" from the build service.. 21:40 < X > Y: it took me 8 clicks... ?
I've assumed it was obvious this issue, but seems not, so let's get on the details.
I'm almost certain the "user X" you mention is a gnome user. I can tell that for 2 reasons. One is the silliness of proposing the change of name (like that would cause any effect except for wasting the universe's energy). And two is for focusing great efforts in trying to make it look like a big deal a thing that is almost completely silly. I could add a third, which would be "tell people to change something with absolutely no further thinking on the impact, suitability or importance of that change", or if someone hasn't thought in the past about the optimal solution on that problem (which I'm pretty sure Benjiman did).
What one-click does: automate the process of "installing a package with dependency solving" by joining 2 operations: 1) Add all the necessary repos, giving the option to remains subscribed 2) Install the package with the package manager now it can fulfill all dependencies
Now how it works. I've installed a package here just to document these steps: 1) You click on the link, it shows a window with the repos it may need to add, and gives the choice to remain subscribed or not. 2) Then it confirms the package and eventually dependencies that will be installed (its important, you may not want to install lots of dependencies or change versions of a certain package). 3) Then it shows a status screen, BEFORE it makes any changes, like in the yast installer, very well done, you can check any problems, have a complete view of the process (this step has a confirmation before going next, exactly like the normal yast installer. 4) After that you type your root password, because thats the way you should install stuff, as root. 5) Then you wait for repos to be added, and package to be installed. 6) There is a screen telling the instalation was successful, and you click finish to end the process.
Now, let's ask again the question: what in planet earth is wrong with this elegant well-done consistent logical work-flow for an automated process that respects the package manager stack for the lazy people or people who are not comfortable with the add-repo-then-package schema?
Just because your "user X" thinks its way too complicated because you could simply "rpm -i pkg.rpm" (one click! one step!) doesn't mean "user X" statements make any sense. Since "user X" can't even understand what's going on, I believe he should let the thinking for other people with clue.
Cheers
Marcio --- Druid --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 13 juin 2008, à 09:34 -0300, Druid a écrit :
I'm almost certain the "user X" you mention is a gnome user. I can tell that for 2 reasons. One is the silliness of proposing the change of name (like that would cause any effect except for wasting the universe's energy). And two is for focusing great efforts in trying to make it look like a big deal a thing that is almost completely silly. I could add a third, which would be "tell people to change something with absolutely no further thinking on the impact, suitability or importance of that change", or if someone hasn't thought in the past about the optimal solution on that problem (which I'm pretty sure Benjiman did).
I'm sorry, but this paragraph ruins your reply for me. How is it useful to be offensive towards GNOME people? I'm sure you could have made your point without this... Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
I'm sorry, but this paragraph ruins your reply for me. How is it useful to be offensive towards GNOME people? I'm sure you could have made your point without this...
Vincent
I'm sorry, Vincent, but how does it help to come here in this list and tell people to change a thing, like the previous people who did it were completely idiots with no understanding of nothing? Isn't that someway offensive? "Hey, this sucks, do it again, properly this time. Remove some steps, btw." Marcio --- Druid --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2008-06-12 at 23:30 -0600, Stephen Shaw wrote:
Sorry for the vagueness. I personally have NO problem with 1-click. I use it often and recommend it just as much. I think the build service is awesome too. I'm not trying to pick on 1-click or offend anyone on the project.
What I was meaning to say, was that I have had many people complain to me about the name of 1-click and if the name is 1 click why does it take 8 or 9 clicks to accomplish the task.
Please note that I am NOT user X
In my opinion the name makes just as much sense as 'apturl'. The only thing that makes it a URL is that they registered a protocol that launches an external application. But in the end, changing the name really doesn't matter, what does a firefox have to do with web browsing? or evolution to email? What is important is that it is a great application that provides a wonderful service to our users. Those who are complaining about it are those who are looking for something to complain about and don't really care about the actual problem it solves. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
David Alston -
Druid -
John M. Anderson -
Michael Loeffler -
Stephen Shaw -
Vincent Untz