On Sat, 2010-06-26 at 04:00 +0000, Jim Henderson wrote:

I've been kicking this around for a little bit now in my own head, and I'd like to propose that the project develop a strategy around user education and training.

For those who don't know, in my "day job", I work for Novell's Technical Training department as the testing program manager. In particular, I have responsibility for the business end of the practicum exam delivery (and if you want to talk about that with me, feel free to contact me off- list, I'm always happy to talk to people about their exam experiences, even if I can't get into specific details for their exam).

In my role, I also am involved in technical certification, and work closely with people who develop training (I used to be a trainer myself for eDirectory, and developed the training materials to meet objectives we had for that product) as well as being involved to some extent in developing the next generation of training delivery.

I was intrigued by an article in this month's Linux Format about Ubuntu's "Lernid" training system. It sounds like that project has a plan of sorts for training users on using their system, and this seems to me to be a way in which we could grow the community from which we are looking to draw contributors.

In the forums, we've also had a couple of people express that some training on openSUSE would be very helpful and useful for them (either personally or to help people they knew learn about Linux and start using it).

The way I see it, we could break down training into a few classifications:

1. End-user training 2. Contributor training (for example, how to write effective bugs, code style conventions, things like that) 3. Community training (where to ask what, what to expect, that sort of thing).

In items 2 & 3, a lot of that content is in the wiki already - I see the largest opportunity as being #1. There may be a loose collection of things that fit in there as well (such as the howtos for configuring certain video cards), but from a training perspective, some structure and flow between the topics (along with analysis of how the topics can/should flow from one to another) is something that's I think is missing (I may be wrong and just haven't looked in the right places).

What I'd like is for the project team to consider that end-user education (in particular) is something that could help us attract more users and help them achieve a more comprehensive view of how to use openSUSE more effectively. Things like skills migration from Windows to openSUSE would be something I see as key; one forum user put it as "people learn by making connections to that which they already know"; I see that in my official job role as well - the students who are most successful are the ones who can associate what they're learning with something they already know - even if it's not a direct 1:1 mapping.

Thoughts?

Jim

-- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits

Jim, Education in the openSUSE Project is actually a passion of mine and I join with you in any efforts that can grow the community base through education. As some of you know, I worked to establish the Helping Hands project here in openSUSE a couple of years ago, and though it didn't really get much traction, I still keep it open in my mind as something we need to get back to someday. Others are also out there interested in reviving Helping Hands or some other form of education and training. However, I must point out that what you are proposing isn't a strategy per se, but rather an activity to support a strategy. A strategy highlights your strengths and/or strengths you want to develop towards. For example, any one of the following would be considered a strategy: * Be the project with the most number of packages/packagers * Be the Learning Project where people come to openSUSE in order to learn about Linux * Be the project that develops the most new tools * Be the project that <insert whatever here> And in order to achieve that strategy, we would thus implement an activity of educating people so they have the skills to make <insert your strategic proposal here> happen. Likewise, in your job, Novell's strategy isn't to be an educator, but to sell a line of products that meet specific enterprise needs. And in order to be sure to sell those products, Novell implements a Training department (activity) that educates its customers on how to use those products. So, I do not oppose your idea here. I join in solidarity with you in finding ways to educate users, developers, etc. But the education would be, as I said, an activity to support an ultimate goal or strategy that positions openSUSE in the open market. I would also like to emphasize to everyone here that whatever strategy we end up with, that strategy merely establishes the Project's priorities. It does not prevent anyone from doing something they'd like to do which isn't defined within the strategy. Of course, the caveat is that you may or may not get as much support (resources) as you'd like to get. Then again, maybe you would. That's a risk we all take whenever we start up a new project or initiative until we get real buy-in from stakeholders. In other words, if you have an idea and you feel you can start pushing it... Go for it! :-) In other words, if you've got an idea for training and education, let's move forward on it. Don't wait for a Strategy Proposal to say its okay for you to do it. Bryen M Yunashko openSUSE Board Member -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Lørdag den 26. juni 2010 06:00:20 skrev Jim Henderson:

What I'd like is for the project team to consider that end-user education (in particular) is something that could help us attract more users and help them achieve a more comprehensive view of how to use openSUSE more effectively. Things like skills migration from Windows to openSUSE would be something I see as key; one forum user put it as "people learn by making connections to that which they already know"; I see that in my official job role as well - the students who are most successful are the ones who can associate what they're learning with something they already know - even if it's not a direct 1:1 mapping.

Thoughts?

Is your idea just to write more online documentation? Or are you thinking about actual real world classes/courses or creating some kind of formal e- learning? I don't think either of the latter is realistic. I have created http://opensuse-guide.org targetting end users. Note that there have been e.g. packaging sessions both on irc and at events. I think everything needed for technical and motivated people is just about there. Non-motivated, non-technical people are nearly impossible to help imo - unless there's someone (friend, relative, co-worker) to do face-to-face handholding. However, in our LUG we have actually been discussing doing some kind of beginner's course in Linux - but if this ever comes into existence it would be a cross-distro thing. At least here in Copenhagen there's not high enough concentration of openSUSE users that an openSUSE specific course would make sense. Also, a few years ago 75% of new openSUSE users came from MS Windows, but now 75% of new users seem to come from Ubuntu (surprisingly this hasn't seemed to make user support much easier at all). This is also something to consider. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 03:16:53 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

** Reply Requested by 6/26/2010 (Saturday) **

Jim, It's really nice And comfortable to see your efforts again. I have no doubts all your points are very impressive And come with a large experience with the training at Novell.

Thanks, Carlos - it's good to see you up here as well. :-)

Definitely we can build or delivery or at least create an idea about working on this innovations you are tagging as "next generation of training delivery" (And I like it ;-)) with all innovative solutions that openSUSE project handles like openSUSE Studio. The deliverables training could be workloads. Also I believe OBS could help us - I've already assuming that I'll work with you on this way walk to the "next generation of training delivery" ;-) - .... Well... OBS, Studio, Edu Li-f-e And all innovations openSUSE project handles will be on the table plus some others experienced peers on this list can.

Yes, I think some of the technologies the project has created (like Studio - a very good example) would be good for an initiative like this. A few years ago, I was involved in some discussions around Novell's "Open Courseware" project; the original vision (which has changed since it was created) was to do something like the Blender project's book; it is (or was) developed in a wiki and then that was taken to a point where it could be published as a paper book. My thought at the time was that it wouldn't be difficult to create an instructional design flow that set up section objectives, labs, and the like, and then leveraged the expertise in the community to fill in the knowledge. Some people who are good at editing could then apply style guidelines and provide a consistent look and feel to the developed content. Of course, that's just one form of course development (and arguably the model is one that some would say is 'outmoded', with smaller chunks being used for online e-Learning). The potential for hands-on, though, is really nice, because of tools like Studio and OBS.

...

I was intrigued by an article in this month's Linux Format about Ubuntu's "Lernid" training system. It sounds like that project has a plan of sorts for training users on using their system, And this seems to me to be a way in which we could grow the community from which we are looking to draw contributors.

I didn't heard about that Ubuntu initiatives around Brazil yet... Maybe because I'm so focused on SUSE Linux - by the way, I'll try to figure out more informations about this one here. - Do you know if they already have the Portuguese versions for the offers they are working?

I don't know; the article talked about the development being based in Ubuntu's Launchpad, but the developer said that he's working on making it available for other distributions as well. I might grab a Ubuntu setup and play around with it, because the article didn't talk as much about what it was or how it worked as I would have liked. It sounds like it's for live demos and presentations, but it might be a lot more than that.

...

In the forums, we've also had a couple of people express that some training on openSUSE would be very helpful And useful for them (either personally or to help people they knew learn about Linux And start using it).

The way I see it, we could break down training into a few classifications:

If you don't mid I like to add some points here:

Absolutely! :-)

1. Professional or something related training 1.a End-user training 1.b Datacenter training 1.c Verticals

2. Vertical market training 2.a Embedded training 2.b Retail training 2.c Educational training 2.d Financial 2.e Desktop Publish Training 2.f ...

Yes, that's a good starting list. The area where Novell (in particular) does not cover is end-user training, but datacenter and vertical training is a good thing to include as well.

...

3. Contributor training (for example, how to write effective bugs, code style conventions, things like that)

Good, we can start to debate, if had ever had, And if so, start to talk about this subject again, because the time is always changing, And the ecosystem always changing together, then, starts to talk about some kind of certifications for openSUSE professionals, enthusiasts, lizards, members, ambassadors.... I mean, we can adapt some Well done methods that Novell have in our ecosystem, And You are the best one to explain to the others about RACE - CNI, CLDA, CLP, Datacenter specialization, And many others from the past. If you have time to explain a little bit about Novell RACE for us I think we can start to talk about something similar for openSUSE project, specially because openSUSE community, And I'm not talking specific communities like devs, end users, ambassadors, members, lizards.... But for the entirely openSUSE community Novell RACE fits very Well - What do you think?

You'll have to remind me about RACE; the only instance of that that comes to mind is an internal "pat on the back" awards system (which has since been rebranded), but I don't think that's what you're talking about here.

3. Community training (where to ask what, what to expect, that sort of

...

thing).

We can create a list with some strategic questions and publish on some blogs around the globe. Will be something like this: "openSUSE new training and certifications directions team are calling for community feedback" with some questions that we need to know the answer before "imagine or guess" any answer that they may have. And take some actions from that.

This would be analogous to a job task analysis, which would be very important to conduct within the community. When creating a course (or writing a book for that matter), it's good to know your intended audience and what they need to know to get started. An in-depth JTA is almost always a good place to start. It's a part of the ADDIE development model - which tends to be used whenever training content is developed, whether it's formally used or informally used (or not intentionally used at all, for that matter). More information about ADDIE is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addie (no sense in my duplicating what's said there).

From Windows to openSUSE, from mac to openSUSE, openSUSE for the 3th ages, openSUSE for designers, openSUSE improve your windows skills, openSUSE for government, openSUSE for kids, all of them with little But necessary first training steps - i think.

Yes, lots of different opportunities here. What we need to do is determine the right starting point (or points), and then find people with the necessary skills and/or knowledge to help identify the content needs.

...

Thoughts?

Yes... Are you ready? Let's keep in touch

You bet. :-) Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Le 28/06/2010 18:24, Jim Henderson a écrit :

I think it's more than online documentation, but probably less than formal courses.

some years ago, I had to teach free software through a network (phone lines atm) and I build a course. I set up a variant of this course on the french opensuse wiki, offering even a free (phone) support. Nobody ever asked for that... so I never worried to translate or update it. However it could be done http://fr.opensuse.org/Formation_d%27administrateur_Baby the problem is that such course needs regular work for the user. nothing completely free! jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-support-the-Linux-Documentation-Project/3720... http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-fan-page-of-Claire-Dodin/106485119372062?v... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Moin, On Monday 28 June 2010 18:15:42 Jim Henderson wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jun 2010 03:16:53 -0300, Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

...

** Reply Requested by 6/26/2010 (Saturday) **

Jim, It's really nice And comfortable to see your efforts again. I have no doubts all your points are very impressive And come with a large experience with the training at Novell.

Thanks, Carlos - it's good to see you up here as well. :-) -snip-

...

...

In the forums, we've also had a couple of people express that some training on openSUSE would be very helpful And useful for them (either personally or to help people they knew learn about Linux And start using it).

The way I see it, we could break down training into a few classifications:

If you don't mid I like to add some points here:

Absolutely! :-) I like the idea of adding some training to attract more people to openSUSE and fill in knowledge where needed in a scalable way.

...

1. Professional or something related training 1.a End-user training As of today I'd stay away from end-user training or maybe we need some agreement on the term user in general. I don't see us reaching out to John Doe.

I do see the term user divided into two groups: - the user like my wife, my mum, my brother. They use a computer to do some productivity work (OpenOffice covers that mainly), they surf the internet, send/receive emails maybe some picture manipulation or additional a certain software (accounting, database) they need to fulfil their tasks at home or in their small business. They want to switch on/off the computer, maybe an update once in a while and have someone who helps them if something doesn't work. In short they want that everything works as expected without any change, they don't care how it works nor under which licence it is. - the user like some friends of mine. They do the same as the group above but aren't shy to dig into an issue, are willing to read an article or even the documentation to enhance/configure their system and most of them are willing to play around. They check if software match their needs, they change operating systems, they exchange hardware and they want to know what's going on. For me the first group is just out of sight as openSUSE - nor any other Linux I'm aware of - just doesn't meet their expectations. The second group we mustn't forget to make them happy with our distribution. They are the group we may convert into contributors. Best M

...

1.b Datacenter training 1.c Verticals

2. Vertical market training 2.a Embedded training 2.b Retail training 2.c Educational training 2.d Financial 2.e Desktop Publish Training 2.f ...

Yes, that's a good starting list. The area where Novell (in particular) does not cover is end-user training, but datacenter and vertical training is a good thing to include as well.

...

...

3. Contributor training (for example, how to write effective bugs, code style conventions, things like that)

Good, we can start to debate, if had ever had, And if so, start to talk about this subject again, because the time is always changing, And the ecosystem always changing together, then, starts to talk about some kind of certifications for openSUSE professionals, enthusiasts, lizards, members, ambassadors.... I mean, we can adapt some Well done methods that Novell have in our ecosystem, And You are the best one to explain to the others about RACE - CNI, CLDA, CLP, Datacenter specialization, And many others from the past. If you have time to explain a little bit about Novell RACE for us I think we can start to talk about something similar for openSUSE project, specially because openSUSE community, And I'm not talking specific communities like devs, end users, ambassadors, members, lizards.... But for the entirely openSUSE community Novell RACE fits very Well - What do you think?

You'll have to remind me about RACE; the only instance of that that comes to mind is an internal "pat on the back" awards system (which has since been rebranded), but I don't think that's what you're talking about here.

...

3. Community training (where to ask what, what to expect, that sort of

...

thing).

We can create a list with some strategic questions and publish on some blogs around the globe. Will be something like this: "openSUSE new training and certifications directions team are calling for community feedback" with some questions that we need to know the answer before "imagine or guess" any answer that they may have. And take some actions from that.

This would be analogous to a job task analysis, which would be very important to conduct within the community. When creating a course (or writing a book for that matter), it's good to know your intended audience and what they need to know to get started. An in-depth JTA is almost always a good place to start.

It's a part of the ADDIE development model - which tends to be used whenever training content is developed, whether it's formally used or informally used (or not intentionally used at all, for that matter).

More information about ADDIE is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addie (no sense in my duplicating what's said there).

...

From Windows to openSUSE, from mac to openSUSE, openSUSE for the 3th ages, openSUSE for designers, openSUSE improve your windows skills, openSUSE for government, openSUSE for kids, all of them with little But necessary first training steps - i think.

Yes, lots of different opportunities here. What we need to do is determine the right starting point (or points), and then find people with the necessary skills and/or knowledge to help identify the content needs.

...

...

Thoughts?

Yes... Are you ready? Let's keep in touch

You bet. :-)

Jim

-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:04:13 +0200, Michael Loeffler wrote:

...

Absolutely! :-) I like the idea of adding some training to attract more people to openSUSE and fill in knowledge where needed in a scalable way.

...

1. Professional or something related training 1.a End-user training As of today I'd stay away from end-user training or maybe we need some agreement on the term user in general. I don't see us reaching out to John Doe.

I think it depends on how we define "end user" - your breakdown below is a good starting point.

I do see the term user divided into two groups: - the user like my wife, my mum, my brother. They use a computer to do some productivity work (OpenOffice covers that mainly), they surf the internet, send/receive emails maybe some picture manipulation or additional a certain software (accounting, database) they need to fulfil their tasks at home or in their small business. They want to switch on/off the computer, maybe an update once in a while and have someone who helps them if something doesn't work. In short they want that everything works as expected without any change, they don't care how it works nor under which licence it is.

Even in this instance, some training material on how to get around the desktop, where to find things, and how to get help would be beneficial. We wouldn't want to do, for example, OpenOffice training, but pointing out equivalencies to what they're used to (for example, saying "on Windows you might have used Microsoft Office; in openSUSE, the most popular office suite is OpenOffice. Like MS Office, OpenOffice breaks the functionality out into word processing, spreadsheets, presentations, and databases. [...]") That type of analogy-based training would be useful for things like how to connect to a wireless network, how to browse the web, how to read e- mail, etc. Fairly introductory-level stuff, but also information that can make the transition easier to make. It's also an opportunity to teach that level of user *why* the licenses matter. My wife commented to me the other day that she never used to care about the license software came under until she met me; now when she's looking at things like eBook readers, one of the first questions she asks is how difficult it is to modify and how flexible the platform is. The reason that's important to her is she understands why Free/Libre software is important and (in practical terms) how it helps to extend the life of the hardware she's purchasing. For many users, that single economic factor is a significant win. In some ways, the logic is not unlike that a friend of mine who purchased a Prius a few years ago explained; he did it not to 'save the planet', but because it lowered his petrol expenses.

- the user like some friends of mine. They do the same as the group above but aren't shy to dig into an issue, are willing to read an article or even the documentation to enhance/configure their system and most of them are willing to play around. They check if software match their needs, they change operating systems, they exchange hardware and they want to know what's going on.

This would be what I'd term an 'intermediate-level user'. They've gotten past the basics of system navigation and are interested/curious about digging deeper into it.

For me the first group is just out of sight as openSUSE - nor any other Linux I'm aware of - just doesn't meet their expectations. The second group we mustn't forget to make them happy with our distribution. They are the group we may convert into contributors.

The second group certainly is important, but I think you are underestimating the first group; just like contributors come from the user base, so too do the advanced users (who become contributors) come from the user base. The broader category #1's adoption is, the larger the pool for the second category comes from. Some people stay in the first group for a very short period of time, but more and more, I'm seeing non-technical users using Linux, and those users need to be able to learn to get to the next level. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:59:43 +0100, Administrator wrote:

Can I make a plea for diversity in the education. Video or audio is much more effective education / training for most people than written texts. Even programmers have moved from text based editors to GUI editors. A screengrab video with voice over (possibly added later) is very effective is showing newcomers the features and doesn't demand that they have the same level of abstract thinking and ability to visualise that characterises top level developers.

Certainly - in my professional line of work, one thing that I'm working with the rest of my team on is figuring out what the next generation of Novell's training looks like - and with that has come a lot of discovery about how the current generation consumes training. A lot more of it now is ad-hoc, search-it-out-and-find-what-you-need rather than the traditional classroom model. The thing that we've observed is this iterative cycle of: 1. Let the student identify what they want to learn 2. Provide them the means to find the information 3. Evaluate what they learned and go back to step 1 if necessary (for more in-depth or a different method of consuming it) That tends to be the way everyone learns, even in a classroom (step 3 is done jointly by the instructor and student and is so natural most don't even think about it). That idea/cycle, though, doesn't really preclude any learning methodology; but where the trend in education is moving these days is away from content-centric learning and towards learner-centric learning; that is, rather than the end product being about the content (a course, a book, or whatever), the end product is more about ensuring the learner has the ability to pick and choose what they need and validating that they come out of the experience with the knowledge and/or skills they need to do what they're trying to do. What I think this means is populating a "body of knowledge" and then providing tools to effectively select the necessary materials; but this is more than just providing a wiki that's got lots of pages full of information - because some people don't learn effectively in that way. That means the development of things like hands-on exercises, audio/video experiences, and online interactions. Something else that's absolutely critical to the learning experience is the social element. By and large, the ability to retain knowledge is significantly enhanced when there's more to it than just reading a book/ webpage. The application of the knowledge helps, but having the ability to ask questions and interact around the content really enriches the experience so the learner is likely to retain more. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 30 Jun 2010 19:35:28 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:

On Wednesday 30 June 2010 17:16:59 Jim Henderson wrote:

...

the end product is more about ensuring the learner has the ability to pick and choose what they need and validating that they come out of the experience with the knowledge and/or skills they need to do what they're trying to do.

That is how I look on the future of our wiki content. People have no time to delve in depth of each subject that they stumble upon, so give them how to solve task at hand and let them go.

Certainly I see the wiki as a very important piece of the puzzle - but the important aspect that the wiki misses is that not everyone learns most efficiently in that way. That's where additional options improve the accessibility of the content - and can improve the efficiency of knowledge and skills transfer. There are some who learn very well from reading an article; others who have more visual styles of learning learn far better by seeing something done. Still others learn better by diving in and doing - sometimes after reading, sometimes after being shown.

Applied to new users that have experience with Windows, we should present openSUSE trough task solutions that build upon their current knowledge. Simple application (software) introduction will not cut well, as many users can't figure out from list of features what they can do with them.

In general a list of features is an approach that doesn't work very well (there are certain cases where it does, but in general, I'd say it probably doesn't). More effective is to approach the material from a task perspective - because that's what people are looking to figure out; how do I send an e-mail, how do I create a document, how do I fix my network configuration, how do I [....]? That's why in the ideal situation when developing training you do a job task analysis - that way you can figure out what it is that people need to do "on the job" so you can build a flow that provides prerequisite knowledge and concepts and then build from that into the actual performance of the task. So, for example, if building a course on network troubleshooting, you might start with some networking concepts (IP addresses, MAC addresses, routing, DNS, etc) and then add to that some labs on how to use network troubleshooting tools (tcpdump, wireshark, etc), and then from there go to how to interpret the information those tools present - even if one doesn't understand every packet format and every nuance of the data presented - and how to use that to pinpoint a potential problem to resolve. Then from there into actual problem resolution. It's basically the "crawl, walk, run" principle. If users/students can't self-select the "crawl" step but dive right in with the "run" step, if they don't have the knowledge or experience to actually run, then they are likely to become frustrated because they're missing that prerequisite knowledge. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Also replying a bit late, this weekend was nuts for me and not just because of the holiday here in the US. :-) On Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:29:32 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

(replying a bit late :-))

Le lundi 28 juin 2010, à 16:00 +0000, Jim Henderson a écrit :

...

OK, thanks - I guess what I had wanted was more than just a green light to do something in this space, but to find out what level of commitment there was for something like this from the project and who else was interested in participating in figuring out how best to put something like this together.

I think most people will agree that's something that we want to do. The hard part is finding time, and finding someone who could lead such an effort.

So if you're willing to work on that, you'll certainly find some help -- probably not as much as you'd like since, again, time is always an issue for nearly everyone here ;-) Still, if you're willing to lead such an effort, that'd be amazing!

I'm willing to contribute whatever I can based on my own skills and knowledge. :-) I know Bryen is interested, and I know Carlos from having worked with him in the past - who else would be interested in helping out with this project? Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:15:30 -0500, Bryen M. Yunashko wrote:

There are people who will join in because the idea is interesting, and there are those who will join in because they see a plan in motion that they feel is worth their time and interest to contribute to.

While I can say that it will take several months before I can adequately give this my personal attention that it deserves, that shouldn't stop you from at least going ahead and start putting together ideas about how an effective educational system would be carried out and then fleshing the ideas out with the rest of the community.

I guarantee you, you'll get more people joining in when you have a solid idea or proposal in mind to present. So, go forth and educate-ify! :-)

That sounds good, Bryen - we're nearing end of quarter so I'm tied up in work-related things, but once things calm down I'll take a fresh look and put some stuff together. On an unrelated topic, I think I've worked with your parents before as well - say 'hi' to them for me if you get the chance. :-) Thanks, Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:54:19 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

I just got pointed to the following examples of good tutorials: http://www.youtube.com/user/theurbanpenguin

Yes, Andrew does some good work (I have known him for a few years now, since I used to run the CNI program at Novell and he was one of the CNIs who helped out in the private CNI forums). Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:43:45 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

On Tuesday 20 July 2010 17:12:25 Jim Henderson wrote:

...

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:54:19 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

I just got pointed to the following examples of good tutorials: http://www.youtube.com/user/theurbanpenguin

Yes, Andrew does some good work (I have known him for a few years now, since I used to run the CNI program at Novell and he was one of the CNIs who helped out in the private CNI forums).

Do we reference this work in our wiki? I think we could promote some of this - and similar work,

I don't know that we do - ISTR that most of what he's put together focuses on SLE rather than openSUSE, though he might have shifted. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org