-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Oh no, not another lengthy thread.... I am afraid it is going to be, but hopefully we can stick to the topic and only focus on the name. A brief summary: Stephan as the release manager has decided that he will concentrate on building a distribution around the project known as openSUSE:42. In [1] he also tried to start the discussion about the naming of the new distro. However, this did get sidetracked rather quickly, thus, please focus on naming only. - - Not all questions for the new release have been answered, we do not need to revisit this. Some answers will only emerge as the baby starts to crawl and then walk.... - - Just because Stephan will take on the release manager responsibilities of a distro around the SLE sources does not preclude another person or team to build/release... a distro based on Factory snapshots. As the distribution is a representation of the project as a whole, i.e. all contributors, I think it is fair that people get an opportunity to weigh in with their concerns. This view may not be shared by everyone, so please bare with the rest of us as your mailbox once again fills up ;) However, to those participating in the discussion please focus on the name not on side issues. It has been advocated in other threads that a vote on the name should be considered as the final solution. There are reasonable arguments for and against such a direction. Thus, lets not focus on the voting part at this point either, lets just focus on the name and see where the discussion goes. If this should or should not be voted on can be a separate discussion once we collectively understand the concerns people have with respect to the name. In a "thread renaming" post we have had the following suggestion: * openSUSE Oak """" So how about Oak? It's a solid tree, it fits with the green theme and it will give us: * openSUSE Tumbleweed * openSUSE Oak """" "openSLES" has also been suggested a few times but lets just say that we will probably run afoul with a number of legal restrictions. Plus it is not really SLES, it is based on SLES sources and not a verbatim build of the SLES sources. My suggestion would be to focus on the name while considering that we should not create a name that would produce a potential conflict as described in [2], also consider the reply [3] So please lets focus on the name the child might have. State your case for the name you propose, include in the proposal a numbering scheme, if you think we should stick with numbers. Staring at 1 for a numbering scheme has rather obvious disadvantages, all other numbers are probably equally arbitrary, but you can certainly state the case why the number being proposed is favorable. I propose the above as the guidelines for the naming discussion. I will add my personal opinion about the name as a follow up post. Lets see if I can manage to stay within my own proposed guidelines ;) I apologize to those that are subscribed to both the -factory and the - -project list. However I know that there are a number of people that are not following -project but follow -factory, thus the cross post. As I mentioned, I believe that the distribution represents all of us and thus everyone should have their chance to weigh in on the name given to the baby that represents the community. Let the fun begin. Robert [1] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2015-06/msg00203.html [2] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-06/msg00278.html [3] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2015-06/msg00280.html - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgJlWAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkO9gH/i/TzZ9ayW2m2LAOryTk1mPT 4nViWBbxPH9NA1QVMlTc+bGpauuny7VWDz1GSZgF6aNXu8RQA+FJ914H3DOOiGJP C8y8Ik2aLikWOjVU/ZkF9F3YOY/Qt/gdia1LVJQnz5l5EsA98vjLpjNjV3grDlTy jmwogwCrR8WUoPx2YPompuqxePeZTjNFcQpa5i76TQhXj+afX5FKKVxSlWQlra8Q iS+h/3ke+28hUvAAeSQk3ufbfiuSN+93JX7R01N/Ni+03KX5CR0asTk+Go2KZ91F aQnaEXNeWWVyAB21GOcAe5m5duKWgkB59A0Wu3EjiS4Y+2+kRssZ38dF8Y/dLrI= =183F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Don't have the time to comment on this whole thread (seriously? yet another long post...dude! ;)) but I do have two points I want to make very quickly 1. I think talking about naming anything is premature until we know what the landscape is going to be. Right now, we have Tumbleweed and the beginnings of a new Regular Release which is currently codenamed openSUSE:42. While there is obviously some people who would prefer to keep with the old way of distribution releases, we haven't seen anyone step up to actually do the work to continue that approach. I think the suggestion to maintain the openSUSE name only for the current-style of Regular release is foolish if there is no sign of that way of doing things continuing. So I think any decision about naming (and also versioning) is pointless until things are a little further down the road. This might be a good opportunity to kick around some names, but I certainly would strongly advocate no final decisions until we're much closer to releasing stuff. And for point #2, I have to point out something about one of the suggestions so far On 16 June 2015 at 23:47, Robert Schweikert <rjschwei@suse.com> wrote:
openSUSE is a Registered Trademark which is jointly administered by SUSE & openSUSE through the Board. SLES is a Registered Trademark belonging to SUSE, and unlike the openSUSE mark, we (the openSUSE Project) have no established agreement to use the SLES Trademark. Discussions I've already had on this topic suggest to me that SUSE would be reluctant to give permission to the Project for the use of the SLES Mark, as it would be confusing both from a market standpoint, and a practical one (as Robert points out, it's based on SLES sources, not a verbatim build of SLES) So, please, consider any and all alternatives before this one -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/16/2015 06:07 PM, Richard Brown wrote:
Really? When do we ever know the landscape. Until oSC15 most people were most likely under the impression that we'd have openSUSE 13.3 late this year as a snapshot of Factory. The per-announcement at FOSDEM and some other rumors beforehand can certainly not, under any serious circumstances, be considered as an indicator for major upheaval to the release. Thus, I would say we really do not know the landscape, ever, until things actually happen. What we do know is that our release manager has announced that he will work on a distribution/release that is based on openSUSE:42 and thus I would say we can all pretty much infer from that that our current release manager will not have the time, energy, or interest to also work on "openSUSE Factory-based". This decision is from my point of view sufficient to come to terms about what the child should be named. If history is any indication we know that when Stephan puts his mind to something it is going to happen. Even in the most uncertain times somehow there was a release. Kudos to Stephan for all his hard work and dedication to the project, I doubt this will change. And during the times of the openSUSE team Kudos to their hard work on the release as well. Therefore, I would say it is a fair expectation that there will be a distribution ready for release based on :42. I am really not certain how much more of the landscape we need to know to give the child a name.
And why would that have to be right this minute? If it happens next year would you rather rename the new "regular" release again? Or have another naming discussion? Or worse discourage such potential efforts by saying the new child is called "openSUSE XY.z" and that's that? There should be the idea of putting things on equal footing to provide our users with the choice they desire and provide our contributors with the opportunities they deserve. Many things are implied by a name and this choice is important, IMHO.
Well, one can call many things foolish. I guess trying to come up with a reasonable solution that considers many different concerns now falls into that category as well. By the way I did not propose to reserve the current naming for a potential future effort, I proposed to abandon it in favor of providing multiple efforts equal footing for equal naming rights. Maybe that is the foolish part. Please explain where the problem lies if it is called "openSUSE Forest" and there is no third distribution? Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgM/1AAoJEE4FgL32d2Ukxe8IAIrMWREfldbpwMSWL5f7pek/ SAf064lhlxXHJmlOfQxqhD6NZxlXVjzHpILwrELpP4Cmnn+OK4FgAPPRb2xPXGz5 9z5CdtKpcPY4oq8DQMnFQDM8wDOG0NUA5+Gnc9iWFiraq9JmZ2WOJu7M6x07Ae00 yErJ1Kg1wak3Xupp4WI8+tV1vN4iWg9zOiuy+M9Gb2Yxs0e3G+jqV+VwCzhaJQOM NsyItzVTyALrt4nh9oWs5qUOqvrPVEhPjZV2uKNpkmLu7g7uag+XQpldUDXR4YCC bPlAShCOI3trEIPl+eiYNuvFuod9cDtzr6Lbmtm2iZTUX5qq+oANIWDinJyiLIg= =N7lg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 17/06/2015 03:40, Robert Schweikert a écrit :
Please explain where the problem lies if it is called "openSUSE Forest" and there is no third distribution?
we could also call the distro forest and the version tree: openSUSE Forest oak next year: openSUSE Forest ash so as remove the annoying "this number is beta" that happened so frequently in the past just as example jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 00:07, Richard Brown wrote:
Don't have the time to comment on this whole thread (seriously? yet another long post...dude!
opensuse-project posts are anything but concise, so it does not seem surprising that only "6 out of 49" (or so) people responded to votes. ;^) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/16/2015 05:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
My comments on the name. I think with the developments as they present themselves we should abandon "openSUSE XY.Z" as a name and we should use names in the form of openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION This, IMHO, will have the effect that there is no finger pointing as in "why does this release team get the 'openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER' over another release team". I also believe that such a naming scheme will help us in the forming of a marketing campaign built around "The builders choice" tag line proposed at oSC15. openSUSE Tumbleweed - The builders choice for developers openSUSE XXX - The builders choice for sysdamins and devops, rock solid and long term support The choices are clearly differentiated by name and each has a specific target audience. I am using XXX as a place holder for the name of a distribution created around SLES sources. Last but not least I believe this allows us to avoid naming conflicts if/when a distribution based on Factory snapshots should emerge, reference [2] in the original e-mail. The "openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION" naming scheme will probably/hopefully not be perceived as a deterrent to such a possible effort and I think this is important. Numbering, given that 1 is not, IMHO, a good solution as a starting position given that we would soon repeat numbers used in the "openSUSE XY.Z" scheme and we have a history of doing quirky things I do like the idea of starting with 42. Given that all numbers after 1 as a starting position can probably be considered equally arbitrary as a selection I think 42 is just as good as any number and it is after all the "Answer to The Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything" ;) At this point I really have no strong preference about the middle part, Solar - ever lasting, green energy, shining bright Forest - green, stable ecosystem but new things growing/happening, diverse, sticks with the plant theme Thus, the name for the first release would be something like this openSUSE Oak 42 Then add .1, .2 etc as the base changes with SLE service pack releases and when SLE 13 becomes the base it turns into openSUSE Solar 43 AS I said, no strong preference yet on the middle part ;) That is my contribution to the naming I think I stayed reasonably within my own proposed guidelines ;) Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgKGxAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkFD4H/RlK6Op2kAVJ+6oGCMDVIJsE OsiFw835JZHt7o9vLkCQgit0PUl/g0WtFkR5fcKDPepO64mzIKzjNR7Sl7uPTFxy htKsUR/sir6r/WaEYZ0SNbeLgnOfFBFV+bzVJFOrE6mqO72g2PDb77mevwktyO/t nFIblKz05D29zgNQm5/LopKwq3uVa6/yfwokunSGvJdEUG6Rs8Y2wGhvnPnn9SzS /g6/xs+yk+J1Vgx6uFz06GCAcwqzhC6mK0/1AsCl6pmq7OU1ZhGKtfAUVG3cXwYD Tu8Uc/8rLkR2M5drt5dWM5rkQbt3YN5j+xOq57tmYJvvF8A3eqBevl9dMEtbdhw= =72T8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-17 00:22, Robert Schweikert wrote:
Yes, I agree.
Thus, the name for the first release would be something like this
openSUSE Oak 42
Not bad. I like it :-) Next, would be a numbering scheme for the future. 43, 44..? 42.01, 42.02...? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWBbxMACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Wa+gCfULl1FfC57gPt8i3X8xEuI8F2 VyEAnjBEnpaFoHbkASzd3LCGUXk74PAO =oFLg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 14:59, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Next, would be a numbering scheme for the future. 43, 44..? 42.01, 42.02...?
Since openSUSE:42 is the *title*, any versioning off it would make for - openSUSE:42 1.0 - openSUSE:42 2.0 And now you see why there is so much confusion about using an integer as title. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2015 schrieb Jan Engelhardt:
No (at least IMHO) - openSUSE:42 is a working title saying something like - a future openSUSE version (> 13.2 = future) - includes big changes when compared to 13.2 (that's why it isn't increased only by one, but by a big number)
I agree, such a numbering scheme would be terrible [1]. However, the scheme was never proposed this way - 42 was only meant as starting number and (if we use this scheme) will increase to openSUSE:43 with the next SLE release. Regards, Christian Boltz [1] see also: Typo3 ;-) -- Der Trick in dieser Welt ist herauszufinden, was man gerne tut, und dann noch jemanden zu finden, der einen dafür bezahlt. -- (unbekannt) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 16 June 2015 18:22:41 Robert Schweikert wrote:
At oSC15 you presented the slogan as "the makers choice". While this might be close, exact words do matter in marketing. I'm not sure the proposed tag line should be part of the naming discussion, especially given this fuzziness. I also haven't seen much uptake on it, and for me personally it doesn't resonate. I think we do have a pretty clear vision for Tumbleweed. And an openSUSE distribution based on SLES also is a pretty clear vision. This should be enough to find a good name.
I like the scheme of having a separating middle name and Oak actually is one of the nicest proposals I have seen so far. I would not change it over time, though and reflect progress in the version number. So the middle name would reflect the nature of the release and the version what, well, version it is. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-06-17 15:47, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
Yes. And the number could have the decimal part showing which service pack the release derives from. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/17/2015 09:47 AM, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
Yes, they do, my apologies I should have looked it up rather than going from memory. Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgYGjAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkwG8H/RGofhbl2sqhSAU7fOLn2mtV SsmGO+BTX88KVQjzW6jncgbFZiFba+bfmjtSH9eoXV9dN0bcPpjEmHEl+8/koWyN ItSCls9aD2S0rleLH726Gev4jrXEwlhOwBwbBptuYO80Gat6AFq9fzsvEFj4E7T8 SsGkgTI8yVtMrYJvx6oHfTUEg7zGqWi0Cyv6hmJ4PFKDrGaT5TMaGI+TMGYqX3fy PoCF8X4SoWiX9tv60QEebIbEgWLT7QuzVsTzU2m1qKLcW/bb9wLqYHRsxUiFw/qv /aBtuD8cztQqa15Ya8fFw/jv1PT/FW3AI1DKaKLTJDmlImaBJo0qu6amP7jv3a0= =Bbhq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 15:47:40 +0200, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
Apologies if this third attempt ends up being a duplicate, but my posts don't seem to be coming through to the list. Trying it without the cross- post to devel. "The Makers' Choice" would be correct. It's a plural possessive. Jim (Tech writer/editor by day) -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 05:47:02 PM Robert Schweikert wrote:
Oh no, not another lengthy thread.... I am afraid it is going to be, but hopefully we can stick to the topic and only focus on the name.
My proposal. Use a debian / openstack -alike scheme to name things: NAME = openSUSE THEMENAME [NUMBER] THEMENAME = list of alphabetically ordered names of the same thematic NUMBER = 1, 2, 3, 4 ... Some candidates for THEMENAME are: - Names of colors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colors:_A%E2%80%93F - Names of greens: actually used as a code name for normal openSUSE release https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shades_of_green - Names of trees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trees - Names of mathematicians: http://www.thefamouspeople.com/mathematicians.php - Names of chameleon species (not good list found so far) - Other So every openSUSE release based on the same SLE version will have the same name. NUMBER correspond to the SP release number for SLE. So SLE12 will have a 0 as NUMBER, SLE12 SP1 a 1. So, for example, if we use names of greens, the names will be: openSUSE Avocado SLE13 + Factory openSUSE Avocado 1 SLE13 SP1 + Factory ... openSUSE Bottle SLE14 + Factory ... openSUSE Bottle 3 SLE14 SP3 + Factory Just an idea. -- SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer Guild, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-17 09:23, Alberto Planas wrote:
Not bad. It has the advantage that the numbers relate to the SLES service pack the release derives from, and that is a very interesting info to have in the name. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWBcTsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XCoACfZzF8boVnBG9pHlECKHmQojzf HuEAoIs0gNIvqanZA4X2h+K1CwzHavbQ =nbfD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 05:47:02 PM Robert Schweikert wrote:
Oh no, not another lengthy thread.... I am afraid it is going to be, but hopefully we can stick to the topic and only focus on the name.
My proposal: openSUSE Home Server 12 (then 12sp1, 12sp2 etc. until oHS 13 is released around 2018 or 2019 ). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 16.06.2015 23:47, Robert Schweikert wrote:
Hi Robert, I guess it has to be spelled out: It's not impossible in theory. In practise it won't happen that SUSE engineers work on two openSUSE releases in parallel. This includes bug fixes and maintenance work. So your "another person" above has to replace a lot more than Stephan. I don't see a lot of interest in doing that. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Dne St 17. června 2015 10:00:29, Stephan Kulow napsal(a):
2cents from packagers. It is exactly as Stephan says. It is not just the creating the release (for which we never found volunteers) we would also need maintainers that are willing to work on 2 concurent branches. At least from SUSE perspective we probably would not be able to do that in work time (talking for pack team, but I bet security and others will be also really full of joy) and from openSUSE perspective I can imagine how happy the people would be if you tell them they need to probably double the efforts needed to create maint-update. Cheers Tom
* Stephan Kulow <coolo@suse.de> [2015-06-17 10:00]:
Given that the decision to open up the SLE sources didn't come overnight and people iniside SUSE probably knew about it for quite some time and apparently already made up their mind makes the title and content of Richard's presentation dishonest at best. There never would be an open-ended evaluation, a weighing of pros and cons with the involvement of all stakeholders of openSUSE, rather the future is already decided and those who disagree can fork their own distro. If you're wondering where the us vs them thinking with regard to SUSE comes from, it's exactly this. And its utterly disappointing and a slap into the face for those outside SUSE who have put a lot of work into this project. -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 17.06.2015 13:05, Guido Berhoerster wrote:
6 weeks after the presentation you're complaining there was no discussion? You must have missed the mailing lists in great. Just because most don't care as much as you you do doesn't make the discussions less open. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 01:35:17PM +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Maybe the amount of contributors to openSUSE Evergreen is also a quite good indicator. Many of us like to have an openSUSE version covered with five or even better ten years of updates. But who is willing to maintain the software == to backport fixes? Here I'd like to thank Wolfgang and Stefan for driving Evergreen this well! Many thanks for the reminders when a Samba update was missing. Or with less diplomatic words: from some posting quite frequently and complaining loudest I expect we'll have seen minimal up to zero contributions to drive openSUSE forward. Cheers, Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
On 06/17/2015 02:35 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Hi Stephan, Personally I have the utmost respect for you and your work. I have to agree 100% with Guido here. I think that the timing of your announcement (that you will only work for the SLES based distribution) is the problem here. You announced this before going on vacation, which means at the start of the mailing list discussion (and only a few days after Richard's presentation). And this announcement left no real choice for the community: we *have to* endorse this new distribution and accept the name openSUSE given to it, else there will not be a release (or we will need to find a new release team to do so in the future). In my opinion the problem is not the technical part of this internal decision (which sounds valid) but the fact that it was done in a way to not leave any choice to the community but to accept it. I think a solution to the above problem would be: 1. The Board to announce that the new distribution will be based on SLES sources with a press release (including the technical/marketing reasons behind this), thus officially provide the "openSUSE" part of the name to it. 2. A followup decision for the release name and version (taking into account this thread - patience - I will provide my name suggestion :) 3. An acknowledgment that SUSE took the decision by having the majority of "real contributors" in the project. Lets not hide here, this is the case. The majority of "real contributors" decided. Don't try to sugarcoat it.... 4. We have to withdraw the rule that only 2 Board members can be SUSE employees. This is an illusion for the project. Everyone from the members should be able to run for the Board. And if in the future the openSUSE members are only SUSE employees, the project will be able to continue to work. As for the name of the next (SLES-based) release: my proposal is openSUSE 13.3 Let's be honest here, this is the only way a community works... Best regards, Angelos -- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
* Angelos Tzotsos <gcpp.kalxas@gmail.com> [06-17-15 10:10]: [...]
Not Stephan, but iiuc, too much importance is being attached to the name which was announced as the name of a "project", not a distribution. It could have been named anything, but doesn't intend to be distributed as that name. In fact, there is already a call in "factory" for discussion of a name for publishing. The lengthy discussion and energy expended here is much wasted. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 17.06.2015 16:10, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
That might be your perception, but it's not true. I waited 3 weeks after OSC15 to present how it would possibly look like after it was clear that many liked the idea in general but had no idea about the details. And that I don't believe in Factory snapshots is something I said before, not just now. But if a SLE based openSUSE would actually work is something that is still to be proven - so I actually started to set it up instead of talking bullshit and send a progress report before going to vacation. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/17/2015 05:26 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:
As I said, technically, a SLES-based distribution sounds valid, I don't see a problem with that. And I did not say that you talked bullshit. You have to acknowledge though that you did not leave much space for a community-based decision. Best, Angelos -- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Angelos Tzotsos - 17:36 17.06.15 wrote:
I think coolo meant that instead of talking for weeks about what could we do if we would have had somebody to do actual work, he just went and did it.
You have to acknowledge though that you did not leave much space for a community-based decision.
What should be community deciding? Whether coolo can do whatever he want or whether to put him in the chains? I think timing couldn't be better. We have all the info still fresh in the memory and there is still plenty of time for failure or volunteers to step up and do Factory snapshot release. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/17/2015 09:17 PM, Michal Hrusecky wrote:
Yes he did and it is much appreciated.
The community and the board should be deciding the future of the project. Of course Stephan can do whatever he wants, but he cannot decide for the next official release on his own, this was my point. -- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hey, On 17.06.2015 21:40, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
Here is how this openSUSE thing works: 1. The "release" or anything else needs to be done by somebody. 2. Everyone can decide if they are going to do something (incl. Coolo). 3. Releases, or anything else, are going to happen when people decide they are going to do it and when they succeed. Coolo told everyone up front what he is going to do (:42) and what he's not going to do (13.3). Now it's up to everyone else to act (or not). That is how we decide what is going to happen :-) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 18/06/2015 12:05, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :
Coolo told everyone up front what he is going to do (:42) and what he's not going to do (13.3). Now it's up to everyone else to act (or not).
is there somewhere a detailed description of what is necessary to build a distro? I don't ask for long answer, a link or "no" is enough :-) thanks jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Since we're proposing, here is something from me too. As far as I see it, there will be 2 versions. Rolling and stable. Rolling--> openSUSE Tumbleweed 20150717 (ISO that came today) Stable--> openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION Regarding the numbering I propose to use the year and month. It'll be helpful when someone asks us when is the official suport ends? Now I have to search the news when the current version was out, then add 2 life cycle plus 2 months. At least having the year and month, it'll be easier to calculate (we're not all involved in tech). Ald also use some number for the SLES number. So something like 15.07.1 would be great (sorry, I don't follow SLES and don't have a clue about numbering there). Regarding SOME_NAME we can follow other cartoon eg NEMO but we should ask the company first to use their names. I guess Debian asked before. Lizards are not enough for the future naming (check http://www.lizardtypes.com/lizards/types-of-lizards/). I prefer openSUSE Stable 15.07.1 because when someone tells me that I have weezy installed, I don't have a clue of what he's talking about (unless I'm tech guy). Also when I say to new guys, use Tumbleweed version, they don't know what's that. So we can keep tumbleweed as tradition and use Stable word for regular versions. @Robert, I hope the paragraph above makes sense. I'm kind of dizzy from studying pathology. I mention you since I guess you're going to gather all suggestions at the end ;-) Take care, /S -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I feel very strongly that the actual actions and the process, are being completely misrepresented here. On 06/18/2015 10:51 AM, Martin Schlander wrote:
Correct, the discussion about moving SLES sources didn't come overnight, but it also doesn't impose anything on openSUSE.
makes the title and content of Richard's presentation dishonest at best.
That's quite a leap; the choice to publish SLE sources in OBS does *not* imply that openSUSE must adopt them. Among other things, it provides the option for openSUSE to do so.
We've been having the discussion since oSC. Nothing was decided beforehand, I can attest to that from personal experience. The only thing that's been decided so far is that Coolo, among others, has decided to try to use some of the sources in a new project, following the mantra that "those who do, decide."
I'm disappointed to hear that you think so poorly of your peers in this project. Perhaps, instead of assuming bad intentions, you assumed the intentions of those working on this project/opportunity/thing are doing so with good intentions, and you try to understand the problem(s) they're trying to solve, in order to foster a healthy debate that benefits the community? Assuming bad intentions is a quick road to destroying community. - -- James Mason Technical Architect, Public Cloud openSUSE Member SUSE jmason@suse.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSECon 2015: Register at susecon.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVgwhbAAoJEBs5UYhsRJAjV2MH/0MzvrVIO5iGBbOxnVxdDx6z ggD+69oynNr8cuR9kL4kjku96otIo+IB4WfcD/rNKfRne+mrolj94/pGweULHGhr Bi6lMC0RCyhO2MDquTCKrGkHlRQIyukeOLb5cYKRKPtVdMr2w6onm96Oi2yqQdZU JySwnp361G5AqGgarouPJUoYblUY7zLDlBgdYH5Wk5CkrKOnEbCLgRD0xieqle3f WP/kYXi/wlU9sxrTQttowUDttYqf5YVAuBKtFJ7qGkpjR0NHRwNr5by7AVXD2dRS N2Q7Y40veVX2i//crqJ3CK06ST8e52kZ/0gn8JYTUf++tgj6Nzah9K2SaV7P71w= =Ddaz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 18/06/2015 19:51, Martin Schlander a écrit :
may be all this is a bit too much... We had similar discussion when going from kde3 to kde4 (and kde5 is near). Two things: * there will be a change in what we where used to. Is this change for good or for bad? if it's for good, why cry? * there is a lack of documentation about the way a distro is build, that makes it difficult for an other team to take over. true? may be not. The Evergreen team is how many people? two, may be three? and it could take an old distro and keep it live. It should not be so difficult to take tumbleweed and to freeze it a some moment, where one think it's specially stable. building openSUSE from factory was probably not very different than that. and I think kde3 is still living in openSUSE thanks to a small team... So, yes, @suse people have a great power, but this power may be because they work 60 hours a week (and half for free) on openSUSE. I'm not always glad of this situation, but, all well considered, it's not so bad... jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-18 20:51, jdd wrote:
Rather impossible. Even if there is no intention to build another distro, if something happens to the people that are doing it now, the distro may fail. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWDazEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UFTwCfXF7PPI75LnS0rBSZzUouBxq7 vdsAn3+3hWyAuufsPkAREVlrx+j2VWkq =ozLk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Stephan, On 06/17/2015 04:00 AM, Stephan Kulow wrote:
When and where did I ask for SUSE Engineers to work on two openSUSE releases in parallel? I do not think I did and if I implied it I apologize.
Fair enough. Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgXJhAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkvkAIAJ+c0Wy6H+Q6j0pSEqdv9cGN OTb2Qq3gqiOBb0WLF1nyoP+kt9d1v0Z6eqi2xim1n261+X6QK+I+uY6xaw1nuj9f ItfA59OkvMyFpH/OG5tICBqUsgvuQUwFmoikLKSNgJX83BZsa08SQBfafVwsi1AQ 7sBFWkP87KfkNE4O5yszhXM9ZFR4nV4g18rxx0gussYL79/Sr+hjvMQzXk6b+9zP ar8NoF5dGDTlxrfCmvINoSotXAybYhyg2XsySQbJmzgr4/KgBRZmcOBaTbTF6rz+ ++ymDLJROKpRbma3r9/EUbPMnNhxqqVGRKYxiPao82fR4OxqtoK3qyM0EajsgDk= =1x+7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 16 June 2015 at 17:47, Robert Schweikert <rjschwei@suse.com> wrote:
Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed? The latter is well advertised as a rolling release so no number or anything is needed. The former uses the SLE Sources as a base and shows the similarity to its enterprise brother/cousin, we discussed at oSC15 using 42 as the name for the project in OBS and using it as the base for the release numbering. So as we were planning on releasing roughly at the same time as SLE12 SP1, then we would label it openSUSE 42.1; with the major number matching the SLE number denoting the tree from which it is spawned and the minor number lining up with the corresponding service pack. I don't get the fascination with "fixing" something that isn't broken. Nobody cared for the code names for each release since forever, what makes this any different. Lengthening the name is pointless and causes issues with macros etc. Regards, The Grumpy Curmudgeon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 06/17/2015 08:57 AM, Andrew Wafaa wrote:
I agree with adding a name; we're changing the definition of how the distro will be created, and what its core purpose is. In the past we've always added names for that; Factory, Tumbleweed, Evergreen. IMO 13.2 is, unless someone steps up, the last 'openSUSE' release. openSUSE Tumbleweed & openSUSE ? move on in its stead. As far as that ? ... I think its an obvious choice. We repurposed the Tumbleweed moniker for Factory rolling releases, as it was not possible for the Tumbleweed maintaineer to meet its original purpose, and it was 'dying' anyway. Now it has new life, in its original purpose, and is more popular than ever. So, I think the obvious choice, assuming the maintainers agree, is to repurpose Evergreen for the SLE-based releases. openSUSE Evergreen 12.0 -> SLES 12 openSUSE Evergreen 12.1 -> SLES 12 SP1 I don't believe there are any actual version releases of Evergreen, just repos for older versions of openSUSE, so although the version number moves backwards relative to what Evergreen supported, the name is all new as far as distros go, and carries just the right message/purpose. - -- James Mason Technical Architect, Public Cloud openSUSE Member SUSE jmason@suse.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSECon 2015: Register at susecon.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVgbqDAAoJEBs5UYhsRJAjiy8IAJPpVUTOFO1Etww/tdV6Ok6E oR8x891MBZbuBARq/e50VAnB8QdLtNtFCvX/i07VdpMhXFUptYYTPPjPdqaPdtxb 9xNv6n2ZHMIy3KmopGk6Lx9rtzYQdRVBwhaMFZdzLRnk2J5qB/NvsqnOgkEtNH8N VqM0lrJrZR2d347jbXyIzNSPSsHLAjepiK5XydPsPPwENey56GOVrzHI3jRTGE3T codekHyr32TW5WIfj7iWwhRjOB2PqNAHfX8QDekkOOgAh1obeP20DTymyZzzHtyi spIgFwyE6Q1B1PRExlvbHiAPXFj5998w2etwaUztLZAxPthqET18x2OFXiOzq0w= =RZV7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/17/2015 09:20 PM, James Mason wrote:
I really like this idea! Lets leave openSUSE X.Y releases at 13.2 for potential future use and use openSUSE Evergreen for this new distribution. +1 Angelos -- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-17 20:20, James Mason wrote:
I don't believe it was dying, but does not matter here.
Interesting idea... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWBwmYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VHoQCggdfZkwFBul/kv3yLHHH49PiT nFIAn0soiaP/fHOBp8zpxUaestXqYZUO =D72A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2015 schrieb James Mason:
That's a nice idea, but it comes with a problem: The Evergreen team has officially stated that they will provide Evergreen support for 13.1 - both on the mailinglist and on https://en.opensuse.org/Evergreen (and quite some people (including me ;-) run servers with 13.1 for that reason). This means we'll get a naming conflict with SLES 13 SP1 with your proposal :-( Regards, Christian Boltz --
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On Thursday, June 18, 2015 10:53:41 PM Christian Boltz wrote:
In that case, to fix the name conflicting with Evergreen team, there is another evergreen specie we could try: openSUSE Fir 12.0 -> SLE 12 openSUSE Fir 12.1 -> SLE 12 SP1 Check it out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fir Fortunately, there are plenty green alternatives. :-) Regards, Rick -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 06/18/2015 01:53 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:
Not true; Evergreen project provides longer-term support for existing openSUSE distributions; they don't (at this time) make their own releases; openSUSE 13.1 will *not* change names to openSUSE Evergreen 13.1 if/when the Evergreen team takes over support. - -- James Mason Technical Architect, Public Cloud openSUSE Member SUSE jmason@suse.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSECon 2015: Register at susecon.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVh6xSAAoJEBs5UYhsRJAjmZ0IAJBDCdtEnt+3U1MbQw66ICP+ 49YYNnqgUIxFYyMwMB1DkRVBcygSBt9DZivZysGeXs6pTz4+JKKXCXLVmTCrvmeQ ezY+8u6U0Vip7iwBJQEDkdqKm6grAJXJwlIff7JNP1Ms7uZTf5CcEBQ1RbLJ7X1L Q2SikHR0chwUcwLml/4lMY/yRzwKt2zFNxTjkzk9+k4QKeN0910/X0YbnuKCYnQE vUiRKK2qkQ98V+JPd7AlziboS+tjOoj855lPq2RNt6d2YQXB+zHtFCAZjqxAdfbA uzcX2d87euWLTOpLCVdeY5egFFlV1ntyQjTVhP8Kg49Fx9LwyG4LCWgHFDFFJ4Y= =baqd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 21 of June 2015 23:33:54 James Mason wrote:
Perhaps not officially but it's quite common to talk about "Evergreen 11.4" or "openSUSE Evergreen 11.4". On the other hand, - the existence of Evergreen repository for 13.1 depends on the result of this whole "42" discussion - even if there is going to be one, it's well possible its lifetime may end before SLE13 SP1 release Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-22 09:18, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Sunday 21 of June 2015 23:33:54 James Mason wrote:
True.
Perhaps not officially but it's quite common to talk about "Evergreen 11.4" or "openSUSE Evergreen 11.4".
Yes, that's also true. And it has its own mail list.
It shouldn't, but it would be the last one, I guess. Many people installed 13.1 because it was named an Evergreen release, and are not updating to 13.2 for the same reason. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWH+zAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WFEwCdHdm61dgrJtZUZRS8qe9CGHDy LdUAnA4nXhBWoV7Sn5I3N7nb37YS0M0g =8p7s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-06-17 17:57, Andrew Wafaa wrote:
Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?
Because it is a variant of openSUSE... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlWBwrUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UyuACfXMeKrUOaHlVoCkDHFLhGdW9V SA0AnRgHZ4LFirLJG1hFOQmtytXO8bnn =8DwJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 20:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:
This is hardly a usable justficiation. I don't want any variants, I want _the original_. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-18 00:00, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
On Wednesday 2015-06-17 20:55, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Me too, but it will not be. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWB90sACgkQja8UbcUWM1wtMwD/UzS4Ns7R2Sg7928AciTJ+ZcE dSNRju808hEYm9C9NCIA/1Q949LxbRH4TgeHhJeLcfC/afv2gE9vUAS3TtJY2gXn =kSCE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/17/2015 06:40 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Well that will depend on the definition of what _the original_ means. This may be better debated in yet another thread. However, lets just get into this here. If we declare the release that SUSE paid employees release and maintain (security) as _the original_ and therefore declare this group of people as "special", i.e. they hold the monopoly on releasing things that are branded "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER", as in _the original_ then indeed a renaming would be out of place, and the new SLES source based release that is being worked on as :42 would be _the original_, aka "regular release". This naming "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER" is being advocated by some in the community, and there are certainly reasonable arguments for proceeding in that direction. However, if we come to the conclusion that no group of people should have "special" status (a question raised in one comment in some other thread), then the proposal of abandoning the "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER" name and having any and all distributions follow "openSUSE SOME_NAME SOME_VERSION" is one potential option to communicate the equality of releases, equality as in "equally representative of all contributors". Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVgf0tAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkEA4H/jEr0LaoKlkbHxxVmZ2iKWE2 9Bod+m7QfCSNeF9HlZMEzuxbZhPCRM71Lm49zjsx3MvMTtkoX4hv1GYsJCKq/7bf BdTEOpl/9ioTL3qGMx7MM2Aa6Zdibd8MSne3iZIWFM51z3YbDI1Epk4dy3tUbdtn QPrqsQ2+MLePH2wiqTWFjGpJ4gpaDXoapsdVQX+J0g2PhpP8GeeDdivhYwHzVr0j G+Gf9CKuJKOBCB6ubJfhsoy++Yrz/EmHtrRR8AlG2kXr8sy6QCtNRnO/o+Au2IEF V+9BWWv+QmVQo0uL2qtkN3QcDjUrqZIoJ7cNkppXKWXNC8aDA6dz0wAkIP1Pi24= =ZOjc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 2015-06-18 01:05, Robert Schweikert wrote:
That finally makes sense :) Then, Andrew Wafaa's point which I support and rephrase: We want such a "special status" group that has the usage rights to the "openSUSE VERSION_NUMBER". -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hey, On 18.06.2015 01:05, Robert Schweikert wrote:
communicate the equality of releases, equality as in "equally representative of all contributors".
Please for the love of everything that is holy! Everyone that is participating in this naming discussion: Educate yourself about what you can and what you can't communicate with names. Please. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=product+naming Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 2015-06-18 00:40, Carlos E. R. wrote:
What do you mean by "it will not be"? Just because some SLE sources are used as base does not mean openSUSE is not openSUSE any longer, especially because SLE is from openSUSE anyway. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-18 01:06, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
That we are not going to have back the original openSUSE, understood as more or less what we have had for many years... The people that do it decided that they are going to do it differently, deriving from SLES instead of from factory. The new :42 will be so different, that it deserves a variant name. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWCC0YACgkQja8UbcUWM1xYXQD+I9sQneDRqrPTBM5DKqm4b1Nj dR5siq/0WEjEJCg268YA/3JrBmWEPZKUBZgyaS+ljLHvm7RaIoiugima8yas6ZdE =DthH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-18 01:06, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
It will continue, yes, but not the original. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWCFBEACgkQja8UbcUWM1wwFAEAjz6kpPHL7XGpdBtmZycZep0u /qeenlUTRLtM8FvMxCoA/2NgNEuMBXhG/oieMKpPnRwwKEag2zd+0C5hTBKFGShI =BD+0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 17 June 2015 11:57:03 Andrew Wafaa wrote:
Sorry but why re-name anything? What on earth is wrong with what we have currently - openSUSE $VERSION & openSUSE Tumbleweed?
The nature of the distribution has changed. openSUSE always was something like "latest stable". With Tumbleweed we have some "very latest" now. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is more like "stablest". To reflect this in the name will help us to communicate that we are doing something new (and hopefully better). There is this quote which applies here: "I don't know if it will become better when I change it, but I do know that it won't become better, if I don't change it" ;-) In some way we are doing Rock & Roll here. Tumbleweed is "openSUSE Roll", the rolling release. The new openSUSE based on SLE sources is "openSUSE Rock", the rock-solid release. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 18 June 2015 at 05:27, Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> wrote:
OK, that I understand and can get behind. Thanks for articulating it clearly, Cornelius. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 18. Juni 2015, 11:27:15 schrieb Cornelius Schumacher:
Hi! I became aware of this topic through an article in pro-linux.de today. As a satisfied openSUSE-long-time-user (6.2 to currently 13.1) and someone with a marketing-background, I thought I might chime in here. If I understand the info correctly, by integrating SUSE-packages the next release is going to be something really outstanding in the distro- world. And a big move forward for openSUSE and its (potential) users. This should be reflected in the name. While (even better?) reliability is definitely a key-benefit, I would not put too much emphasis on it in this case. Why? Because you run the risk of ending up with something rather boring instead of dynamic, significant and exciting. But excitement and attention is what you need to get to have an impact in the crowded markets of today. And the product's name is the best place to start. Therefore, my suggestion would be openSUSE Leap like in "leap forward", "quantum leap" or "...but ...giant leap for mankind" (or at least for a chameleon, that is ;) Following (service-) releases might be named "openSUSE Leap 1.1", "Leap 2" etc. Each release a leap. The associations that "leap" evokes are obvious. Marketing could spin a nice story around it. And the press would have something to play with. Well - just a suggestion. Hope it helps! Thinking about it was fun. So long and good luck! Rainer Fiebig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 25.06.2015 21:05, Jay wrote:
Hi, I really like your suggestion. It's generic enough not to be seen as an inside joke (like many other suggestions) and still has something. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 26.06.2015 09:19, Stephan Kulow wrote:
/me likes too. However, me as an ordinary non native speaker did not have a meaning of the word "leap" at hand immediately. So what is wrong with "step" instead? Doesn't that have a similar meaning, and is easier to understand? "openSUSE Step 1.1" regards, Klaas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 26 June 2015 at 09:47, Klaas Freitag <freitag@opensuse.org> wrote:
No, I think Step is far too conservative compared to Leap.. To borrow from Neil Armstrong, we're not talking about "one small step for openSUSE", but "one giant leap for openSUSE" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 2015-06-26 10:02, Richard Brown wrote:
Rumour has it he said "one giant lie for mankind", but I guess we will never know because of the bad audio quality of the transmission. I am siding with openSUSE Oak. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-26 10:33, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
I am siding with openSUSE Oak.
Me too. Unless we find something better :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWNH/0ACgkQja8UbcUWM1xs9wD/eDbwFsGWWwdol9usKLCy8w9v +mnNk64CaNvJWtdhe00BAISHKRrPGvLIqHnI6CwzxqwgiJVcnc19XkoHzXhSczfs =/Nha -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 06/26/2015 10:02 AM, Richard Brown wrote:
Am I totally misinterpreting the article, or was this discussion pointless? "openSUSE 42 is scheduled to be released around SUSECon..." https://news.opensuse.org/2015/06/26/work-begins-on-totally-new-opensuse - -release/ - -- James Mason Technical Architect, Public Cloud openSUSE Member SUSE jmason@suse.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSECon 2015: Register at susecon.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVjU/uAAoJEBs5UYhsRJAj9tgH/jHWTMocP1+9eIGxyCVzngJN JmtnLE4+AN23F9uPgrHdVmrCtqzk/FhqPVgpgb9N/7OyN4TwN9J0Vm67RQwXlNFh QMg1t7KMO8VvbteAWb7+6MGQZdT975fnXSSOYfbXNnovYbYR2QdrAxuq4Grje2ZU 9jAnY0tj2Ompojq9STGKJ2GgRAoD4t6PdjQthWeV7pXA44Oz8+vHz3vYIr0X2dJL kU9g0lmbdU7y3i8F4gXqvDPKM/KL0T4dpxxJd36VswgS+ni1Phw6m4q8RvhCZnqv Q0nmQd1yh4EkWd10+M7KB6qAcW2U7sIoxLZHydhOejG2TnllYXwO58gR/GS3Cl0= =BP9P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
I think the discussion here is around the final name … the article is using openSUSE 42 as the codename for the project so that everyone can have something to use to discuss the work. Sincerely, Bob Martens Martin Luther College Webmaster/Technician http://mlc-wels.edu
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Quoting Robert Martens <martenrt@mlc-wels.edu>:
Exactly. 42 is what's in OBS. I believe we should come out with a name that makes a strong statement. Let's not be modest about the name. We have excellent talent and commitment in openSUSE. Mixing that with the SUSE portion, which combines to form 42, merits a name that is bold. I see a name like "openSUSE Elite" making a statement. It's bold; I wouldn't really have a negative connotation in its use. Elite simply is better than the rest. etc. v/r Doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 09:47:52AM +0200, Klaas Freitag wrote:
Yepp, leap sound good. Thank you Rainer!
/me likes too. However, me as an ordinary non native speaker did not have a meaning of the word "leap" at hand immediately.
Cause you're so young. ;) Search for this phrase: "That's one small step for a man, a giant leap for mankind." Cheers Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
On 26.06.2015 10:06, Lars Müller wrote:
On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 09:47:52AM +0200, Klaas Freitag wrote:
Haha, haven't heard that for long :-D
Search for this phrase: "That's one small step for a man, a giant leap for mankind."
Yeah, I know. I am just not sure if it's that what I associate with openSUSE. Anyway. Klaas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-26 10:06, Lars Müller wrote:
On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 09:47:52AM +0200, Klaas Freitag wrote:
I was a kid at the time, but that is not what I heard on TV. I heard «Es un pequeño paso para un hombre, pero un gran salto para la humanidad» (1) :-P And the normal translation for "salto" is "jump", not leap. So the relation to the Apolo 11 mission for the word "leap" may be missing to many Spanish. :-P [1] <https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Armstrong> - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWNH4kACgkQja8UbcUWM1ytAAD/T7k1j8jKiHK0pN5Kjb6AS3Vu yygzfDPIeYQrjc82ewIBAJ1d1uKrhuopcB701I+jd+XGozPi6PywomlFfOSZgEtO =Q+cl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday, June 26, 2015 11:46:49 AM Carlos E. R. wrote:
Definitions of leap: noun a forceful jump or quick movement. verb jump or spring a long way, to a great height, or with great force. Synonyms: noun jump, sudden rise, saltation, leaping jump, vault, spring, bound, hop, skip sudden rise, surge, upsurge, upswing, upturn saltation, jump leaping, spring, saltation, bounce, bound jump verb jump over, spring, rush, accept eagerly, form hastily, increase rapidly, jump Examples: When the 27-year-old was forced to leap for his life, he bounced 50 yards down the road with other cars swerving to avoid him. leap year, leap of faith, quantum leap, leap out, leap up, leap over, leap day, leap-year, leap and bound, leap on On other words, on this right moment for us it sounds like sudden rise or necessary jump to openSUSE42. My proposal was "openSUSE Fir" to enhance the Evergreen spirit as it is a Evergreen tree variation. A nice way to avoid the conflicting names with the well known openSUSE Evergreen Project but keeping the long lasting release comcept. Now I know "openSUSE Leap" is a very nice candidate for this openSUSE42. Regards, Rick -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Well I'm actually going to agree with Robert on the name of I think that's pretty cool the only other suggestion I have would be since is 42 and we know that it's life the universe and everything why couldn't we take one of the fictional names from the Hitchhikers Guide and name the the project after that I'm in Oak is great because it's Cardinal that but let's give credit where credit's 242 is flight form in the Hitchhikers Guide let's name it from something the Hitchhikers Guide On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Rick Chung <amon0.thoth1@gmail.com> wrote:
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-26 19:23, Rick Chung wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2015 11:46:49 AM Carlos E. R. wrote:
Definitions of leap:
I don't argue that. I'm just commenting, jokingly, that when N. Amstrong said his phrase, in my country we heard it translated to Spanish. And it was translated as "salto". The phrase that we knew for many many years was in Spanish. And the reverse translation for "salto" is "jump". Both "jump" and "leap" translate as "salto". Thus there is no relation in my (subconscious) mind and that of my contemporaries (Spanish) between the word "leap" and the fact that it was used by N. Amstrong. The main point is that any type of insider joke or play of words may apply only or mostly to one language or one culture. You have to be extra careful. (I know examples of words choosed by marketing on an international company that happen to be offensive or with a sexual meaning here... so marketing was lost here, nobody wanted to be seen with that object (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pajero)) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWNweMACgkQja8UbcUWM1w7BAD/WsTlyhI9XAcwOp/tOlfw6vEd wnV6jzTI1H1rp+zR+gAA/i5tcHMpjIouPyMTF/6BuM1Gi5/ew0WJAaNjHVlXDPdi =aqWL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 26 June 2015 at 23:19, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
While, of course, I would like to see openSUSE choose something which resonates in many cultures, I think "that word doesn't work in my culture" should not be a sufficient reason for not considering any proposed name Otherwise, the only options that will be acceptable to all will basically be randomly generated strings, which will work equally bad in every culture. And I dont like the sound of openSUSE QRsHy, openSUSE TgRhh, or openSUSE LfxEO, for example. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-26 23:23, Richard Brown wrote:
On 26 June 2015 at 23:19, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:
Absolutely. Please remember that I said that I was commenting jokingly :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWNw5gACgkQja8UbcUWM1zdDAEAhU/khPgVdRioY6nSlA3yXM3a XiQoFwxrsfJOxJNMj+kA/irrCz0ecdYB/SIfJdTt27Bih0x7nBcIkopmgmQ70OX2 =ZSS8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Here's my take on naming things: What is coulomb (C)? What is revolutions per minute (rpm)? Coulomb is both an electrical unit and a surname. C is the symbol for the electrical unit. By the name alone, you don't know what electrical property is being described without some study. Thus, the name is a barrier to learning (marketing). As with C, you first need to know that rpm is a symbol for revolutions per minute, but then, I feel reasonably assured you will understand we are talking about something that is rotating. The name facilitates the discussion. On that basis, I would like to see a list like this: CI = Continuous Improvement, currently known as Tumbleweed. RR = Regular Release, currently known as openSUSE 13.2 and preceding. CB = Commercially Based, currently referred to as 42. ES = Extended Support, currently known as Evergreen. Alternatively, I would find SB = SUSE or SLE Based, currently referred to as 42. equally descriptive. This gives us names and symbols that can be incorporated in version labels. Respecfully submitted, PatrickD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-26 23:58, PatrickD Garvey wrote: ...
LOL :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWN5oAACgkQja8UbcUWM1yR+wD/QifQzaEs7irpHRxQqJ0RUVH4 XHMSI1k+S1KNG4d46NAA/RYov9Y868woKimkjn6TVYaGd7aCvbkZ+33kHLwRPpcZ =Az3U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 26/06/2015 23:23, Richard Brown a écrit :
a solution (?) is to write it in Latin :-) for example oak: http://www.majstro.com/Web/Majstro/bdict.php?gebrTaal=eng&bronTaal=eng&doelT... is quercus jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday, June 26, 2015 11:57:15 PM jdd wrote:
Funny. I was thinking of that. Latin names to restore the old scientific tradition of Botanical. Just looking reference for something strong, stable, continuous growing, .... Then I found these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acer_sempervirens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoia_sempervirens https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_virginiana And suddenly made me think of anything like Evermore, Forevermore... That's the spirit of stable, continuous improvement and development (definitely not shaky). Said so, "openSUSE Evermore" for 42. And we cover all the trees and plants: "openSUSE Evermore" (strong,stable, generic and adaptable, ever known) like Sequoia. And this could be a good one "openSUSE Sequoia". I like this one because on some alphabets "S" letter comes before "T" for Tumbleweed. And You could start Stable Sequoia and move later to disperse the openSUSE seeds with Tumbleweed. openSUSE Tumbleweed (tumbled about by the wind, thereby dispersing its seeds) openSUSE Evergreen (that retains green leaves throughout the year or years or any pre-settled time) :-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On June 28, 2015 at 8:49:29 AM, Rick Chung (amon0.thoth1@gmail.com(mailto:amon0.thoth1@gmail.com)) wrote:
As we come up with names, I think it is also beneficial to think of the length of the name. openSUSE is already a two-word composition and when it comes to marketing, it is pretty tough dealing with so many words. openSUSE + Word + Number + etc can be hard when trying to develop marketing materials. I vote for using one word for the next name. One word is easy to use, shows strong personality and is easy to remember. Are we close to putting all possibilities on the table and start a vote? This discussion is already very lengthy. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 09:00:09 schrieb Home:
Correct. Plus openSUSE is already 4 syllables in speaking/reading/thinking. In my view the release- name should at most add 2 syllables more. The shorter the better. Rainer
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 17:26, Jay wrote:
Tumbleweed is three... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWQMccACgkQja8UbcUWM1xSvwD/ftZuSRYW9byUk/ve2XsfObRt doh9NXE2PziAembNGb0A/jERScTovzAgE4kM8gWJntPnoUuEiYZ2TtZcrM/KHwRq =HX8a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 07:41:27 PM Carlos E. R. wrote:
I wouldn't say so. It is most a strategy for some plants to spread its seeds on arid environments. Check it out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbleweed "....Tumbleweed species occur most commonly in steppe and arid ecologies, where frequent wind and the open environment permit rolling without prohibitive obstruction...." Does it sound like familiar strategies we follow to spread the free and open concepts, doesn't it? :-D -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Why not something like openSUSE X 12.1 for the “new” release. We could retire the “openSUSE #” naming scheme and in the future revisit if we should pick it back up again. It is a total copout “solution” with the “X” having no meaning, 12.1 relating directly to the version of the SLE sources it is based on, and also leaving an “out” for picking back up the "openSUSE #" naming scheme in the future for whatever reason. Sincerely, Bob Martens
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+1 On 06/28/2015 09:39 PM, Robert Martens wrote:
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Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2015, 09:19:48 schrieb Stephan Kulow:
Happy to hear that! What came to my mind a little later is that it would also set the release nicely and logically apart from the "rolling" release. Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
i don't like "Leap". It's just tacky to me. Just my opinion, but I don't feel like it describes any openSUSE release well. Hop, skip, jump, leap..and fall...it just sounds kind of ridiculous to me. Oak is better, but that's still not very creative. It's too simple and has been used for way too many things. I feel like we're picking the word first, then trying to make it meet the criteria. How about the reverse? On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 1:32 AM, Jay <MyMailClone@t-online.de> wrote:
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On 06/26/2015 11:31 AM, Sam M. wrote:
For all the reasons you state, I like the Rock&Roll idea proposed by somebody (Cornelius?). openSUSE Rock for the release openSUSE Roll for the rolling It's creative and describes the thing accurately. I have the feeling that is being discarded/ignored just because it's not green. ;-) Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-26 11:49, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
Yes, it is a good one, but it means changing the "Tumbleweed" name, and that's one that has already catched. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWNIukACgkQja8UbcUWM1xYWgEAlx+YzFTYh2X1gr94b9edp9NG 667PzvPgRNxgemQ1VVkA/AjMYMEKW2CZUGItZ5ZT/wzfWE9oI7hYE/ksfuaV3rmp =Smkh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-27 01:07, Simon Lees wrote:
On 06/27/2015 06:43 AM, jdd wrote:
:-))) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWN5tsACgkQja8UbcUWM1wnEQD/YCx/N1jEw6cf3qa1Cc96e/Y1 9MN8tARUxkDBfJXFClEA/j9hbHLHnlH+NhcRVKDob2tZcorQV3QVOVKu5AkBsk/Q =hXDg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On June 26, 2015 at 5:57:19 PM, Carlos E. R. (carlos.e.r@opensuse.org(mailto:carlos.e.r@opensuse.org)) wrote:
\ I personally like the idea of calling it “core.” Not sure exactly where it could fit but what about… openSUSE Core SLE Core SUSEcore -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 2015-06-27 03:05, Home wrote:
I personally like the idea of calling it “core.” Not sure exactly where it could fit but what about…
openSUSE Core
Fedora Core. Oh wait, we had that one already. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday, June 26, 2015 11:13:40 PM jdd wrote:
LOL It sounds like openSUSE Rocky Oaky and openSUSE Rocky Rolly ROTFL Sorry guys, I couldn't refrain me. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hey, On 26.06.2015 11:31, Sam M. wrote:
I feel like we're picking the word first, then trying to make it meet the criteria. How about the reverse?
*clap* *clap* *clap* the first sensible thing I've read in this thread! So what should be the criteria for a name? The name should: * distinguish '42' from other distros by conveying its unique features * hold appeal for the product's target audience: End Users, Admins, Small Businesses. * imply a salient attribute, quality or benefit of the openSUSE 'brand' * have a symbolic association with the 'image' that people have of openSUSE * help motivate people to download and install 42 Other criteria you can think of? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2015, 11:55:08 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
* imply a salient attribute, quality or benefit of the openSUSE 'brand' Name three. In descending order, from the customer's point of view.
Other criteria you can think of?
Short, interesting, easy to pronounce, easy to memorize, not offending, different, works today, tomorrow and in 20 years.
Henne
Don't overkill. You may expect too much from a product-name. Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
* usable for name pattern in the future (what do we want to use for the next releases) * significant, what people are downloading * we should be able to explain, why this name Sarah -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
I should explain it more...
Everybody wants to know, what he is downloading. We have got Tumbleweed and 42 then. What is the difference for the customer and what should he use? Do the explain it on the download page? We want to get new users, too. A new user doesn't want to look in the wiki, what which name is. He wants to get the software fast for testing it. I like the idea with Rock and Roll. Another idea is, what Henne has written above: Brand Tumbleweed is the rolling release and Brand is showing every "branded" step in the development. Best regards, Sarah -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2015, 02:31:19 schrieb Sam M.:
Personal preferences are one thing. And I would welcome better solutions. But what's tacky about the word "leap"? "Leap" is no more tacky than "Oak", "Tumbleweed" or "keyboard". Neil Armstrong's "A small step for a man...but a giant leap for mankind" was one of the most ingenious lines someone ever came up with. It definitely wasn't tacky. It was "sticky" because it's still in people's minds. In marketing, that's a positive. But what about Ubuntu Leap, Debian Leap or Mint Leap? Would that sound tacky to you? Not to me. I would think "Sounds interesting." Because for me a leap stands for a decisive, dynamic and big move forward. Significant progress, so to speak. OK, we may fall after leaping. More often than not, we manage not to do so. But if, it's mostly our own fault. So if you call something "Leap" and then deliver something wimpy, you better prepare for a hard landing. BTW: From a documentary about Australian wildlife I learned that leaping is the most efficient way to move. Who would have thought that? Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/26/2015 04:49 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Hi All, My main problem with Leap is while it means something now in this moment during this transition what will it really mean in 5 / 10 years time. In 2020 openSUSE leap wont convay what the distro is about which is presumably stability etc thats why oak probably still makes more sense, especially with already having the tumbleweed name (I'm not implying it should or shouldn't be called oak, just that i don't think leap makes sense long term). Maybe leap would have been ok as a internal codename instead of openSUSE 42, if we were going to rename it something else before release, but now everyone knows what 42 is so it might be to late. Cheers Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On June 26, 2015 8:08:19 AM EDT, Simon Lees <simon@simotek.net> wrote:
I disagree. 42 is based on SLE and SLE releases security releases routinely, then leaps forward every SP or full release. Leap is an appropriate name for the long term. Also, tumbleweed implies something that rolls along and hits every bump in the desert. Whereas leap implies (to me) jumps from one point of stability to the next. My marketing spin: openSUSE Tumbleweed - join us as we keep rolling forward, but be prepared to hit a few bumps in the road openSUSE Leap - take advantage of the SLE teams effort to scan the future for points of stability, then leap forward from one stable point to the next. Due to the nature of the process you can expect a new leap to be released every 12-24 months. Even then, if stability is important to you, you can stay near the back of the crowd and watch what happens as those in the front take the leap to the newest release. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 26/06/2015 17:57, Greg Freemyer a écrit :
openSUSE Tumbleweed - join us as we keep rolling forward, but be prepared to hit a few bumps in the road
I like this motto
but not as much this one. leap is a one shot work, you wont be able to use leap for the next version. I I get the things well, the main change for 42 is the long term support. This *is* very important, may be the only thing that matters for the user. Ideally, we should find a word that is applicable in most languages. I can't say I have many ideas o the subject :-( jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 5:45 PM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
openSUSE Marvin <--- A point to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy openSUSE Ejderha <--- Name of Dragon of Legend -- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 26. Juni 2015, 23:45:24 schrieb jdd:
Don't agree. You'd simply have one release that's rolling along and an other one that moves forward - well - in leaps and would be named accordingly. What would be wrong with "Leap 2"?
One might even look at Leap as an acronym. For instance: L ongterm support E nterprise-grade stability A daptable to different needs P owerful software selection If these (examples) would be key-characteristics of this release-branch why not use it over a long time?
One should not try to appeal to everybody. That's a classic marketing-trap. Because in the end you wind up appealing to nobody. Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-27 11:55, Jay wrote:
Interesting... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWOdvMACgkQja8UbcUWM1zG3gD/SjU+w/dS9+Soed1Xv/XklYmK He6c1xW7N+lpXTuZ6d4A/jMEC8i2Jpz4yYD7t5svrhhCkRWXLbVU5nrkotRlgj+H =IU2x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Fredag den 26. juni 2015 11:57:25 skrev Greg Freemyer:
Come on now. These potential yearly service pack "leaps" will be much, much smaller than the leaps every mainstream distro will be doing every six months. Even "the big leap" undertaken every 3-5 years will only bring openSUSE to a place 1-2 years behind every mainstream distro. Calling it "leap" is ironic at best, and almost a direct lie, at least it's very much out of touch with what the rest of the world will be doing. One of the criteria for the name should be that it actually says something truthful/meaningful about the distro. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am 27.06.2015 um 15:34 schrieb Martin Schlander:
It does. The fact that it leaps from year to year instead of tumbling through the year. I consider this very meaningful. Greetings, Stephan -- Ma muaß weiterkämpfen, kämpfen bis zum Umfalln, a wenn die ganze Welt an Arsch offen hat, oder grad deswegn. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Samstag, 27. Juni 2015, 15:34:42 schrieb Martin Schlander:
Nobody would be lying or misleading customers if he named a product "Leap". Or would it be a lie or "ironic" if you named the next release "Oak" because what people download is - to their surprise - not a tree? Whether you call it "Leap", "Step" or "Oak" is just freedom of choice. Marketing is not about telling the "truth" or telling lies either. In my book it's about finding better solutions to customers problems and then communicate your message effectively. And for that - among other things - you have to implant certain ideas into your (potential) customers minds. One classic example for the power of a name is the Ford "Edsel". It was a complete disaster. Not because the car was bad. It was no worse than others. It was just because of the name. On the other hand, the Ford "Mustang" was a huge success - and still is. Guess why. I agree that ideally the name should capture the essence of what the product is about. In that respect "Oak", "Rock" and "Leap" may all be not perfect. But all have their merits. I think that "Leap" is just snappier, more unusual and good to build a story around. And as I've said - you could also see it as the acronym for L ongterm support E nterprise-grade stability A daptable to different needs (The chameleon! The openSUSE-Logo!) P owerful software selection Not a bad mnemonic, me thinks. Almost a concept. Or would you see any lies in that? Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Lørdag den 27. juni 2015 18:04:09 skrev Jay:
Exactly. Maybe to insiders with a detailed knowledge of the release and development process "Leap" could make sense, but any outsider will associate "Leap" with something dynamic and innovative, i.e. the polar opposite of what openSUSE 42 stands for. If you want to attract contributors who get enthusiastic about old software and medium-to-long lifetime, with a slightly more stable core system, you should choose a name that reflects that, to outsiders also (in this context "outsiders" includes even current casual users of openSUSE). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 10:50:16 schrieb Martin Schlander:
Leap does not exlusively imply "the latest and greatest". Given all the flimsy and shaky software out there, ever more Linux-flavors, disruptive desktop-designs causing disrupted workflows etc. etc. an openSUSE-release fortified by "tried and reliable components" (as an alternative for "old software" - as you put it) would definitely constitute a "Leap". At least for those who are looking for a stable, reliable, no-hassle OS that simply does its job and doesn't give them headaches on a daily basis. And if I'm not mistaken that's a target group of significant size. Just look at Windows XP - MS virtually had to force users to give it up. In addition, the prospect of a smooth transition might also encourage not-so-daring new users to take the "leap" to Linux. Nevertheless: if you have a better solution - most welcome! Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
I think discussion now become pointless. may one of those that started the thread should build a vote page on connect with the main proposals and let's vote. keep most or all the proposals for a first one week ballot, than the two best for a final ballot I guess this could satisfy most jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 13:26, jdd wrote:
I think discussion now become pointless.
Not really, ideas are coming. :-)
may one of those that started the thread should build a vote page on connect with the main proposals and let's vote.
Maybe not yet :-) Keep ideas comings, and comments... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWP3o4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1zljwD/ZrZ9CffPdy1zRBUP5mXl0n+F pvcm5Lm8c7wsHD8Z5sIBAIrAq844/Jx/j/qJxSl1rbYLjYtX+oIgxOz54U0/J2Dw =mtOE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 14:51, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
Just do it the same way as it was done the previous time. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWP70IACgkQja8UbcUWM1xsHQEAjRYa43kVPVT8o7xvmP18BNeJ OEfX1AU2cdfTVLTPQvUA/0nLVU7/Mc2WjiTU+oJ3UrhQzg278lNTYjDx7E6DwJYE =b/Jd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Søndag den 28. juni 2015 13:14:28 skrev Jay:
I already made my suggestion. "openSUSE Home Server", or maybe that should be "openSUSE SOHO Server" (as in small office/home office) to not discourage small businesses from jumping aboard. There's nothing poetic or abstract about the name. It's just to the point and clear to everyone, no lengthy explanation needed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
I don't like Leap, I don't really like Oak, and openSUSE Home Server sounds like Windows XP Home Edition. In other words, stripped down with an ugly color scheme. Is openSUSE stripped down, meant to be for home use? It can be, or it doesn't have to be. You can use openSUSE as a production server out of the box. I'm not saying I am the master at finding the right name for the next release, but thus far, my personal feeling is more discussion is needed -- a lot more. Hell, we could even just call it 13.3. I think a name would be cool, but a lot of people around forums, IRC, etc., are already expecting 13.3. My personal feeling, though, is that with the right name; something that has meaning and that's catchy, and isn't a name that was chosen then reverse engineered to fit the crieteria, is one that could bring more people into openSUSE and garner more interest in SLES & SLED. This was a hot topic on the mailing list earlier, and the right name is a good first stepping stone. A positive result from that is Micro Focus International benefits from the increased interest in SUSE products and potentially exceeds their quarterly revenue targets, and those benefits are then fed back onto the backs of the openSUSE community. That's a symbiotic relationship which is important in my view. On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 5:08 AM, Martin Schlander <martin.schlander@gmail.com> wrote:
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Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 05:50:46 schrieb Sam M.:
I don't like Leap, I don't really like Oak,
Doesn't mean they wouldn't work. You wouldn't have liked "Mint" either.
Worst solution imaginable. A complete waste of opportunity. You won't have something like the integration of the SUSE-packages every year.
Yeah - catchy but not "tacky", right? Fullfill your own criteria and come up with one. At least try to. Instead of simply saying "Don't like this" / "Don't like that." That's easy.
Top left on my sheet with ideas: openSUSE Leap. Right beside it: Longterm/Leading edge Enterprise quality Adaptable Proven I later found "Powerful" better than "Proven". But that's part of the process. So much for "reverse engineered". Rainer
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As we have "tumbleweed", we could have * reed (if not oak :-)) * Ent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ent against caravan, is the fact that we would have to fear indians :-) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 16:26, jdd wrote:
As we have "tumbleweed", we could have
* reed (if not oak :-)) * Ent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ent
Mmm, Ents...! :-) I like that one.
against caravan, is the fact that we would have to fear indians :-)
Not with camel caravans. There it would be... what, Tuaregs? At least that's what colonial age books said. Beau geste and such... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWQBcgACgkQja8UbcUWM1xcVwD/arqD5R+V4vrT7hIFlPnDPV10 R/dMLsiVhbecDfExAJQA/1E0R7fr0YLW2SIPkTcS/D1QuO9ZjYgwQLHJ4fHpgFsG =AYO6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Let's look at Apple, how they chose names for OS's that allowed them to do series of names which were related to each other. Leopard, Tiger, Panther, etc. Are we looking for a name like that will change upon the next release, or is this a name that is not changing when versions change? On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 7:26 AM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 14:08, Martin Schlander wrote:
And then home desktop and laptop users feel out. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWP74wACgkQja8UbcUWM1ykkgD9HL/Qw6NvU3bgxknAgtrqJMdG U0am5wJ7+StVQU4DFV0A/R9a/LTVYENNafE3zPbr4qej6RgCfQPjla3bGddfNJzU =Lmjo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 17:03, Martin Schlander wrote:
So I'm out, you say? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWQMjgACgkQja8UbcUWM1wbxwD/TMFoOlSBWOW/xHFuPdEhADmH O1WhUbggF1zPyvAMWdUA/11Fgew/QLJ9eDjbmVEuUlE3uqW3mMqgpchJdBybrpKG =UcYH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Søndag den 28. juni 2015 19:43:20 skrev Carlos E. R.:
Me too. Unless my expectations for hardware support and desktop software availability and up-to-dateness towards the middle and end of the 3-5 year release cycle turn out to be completely wrong. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 22:32:14 schrieb Martin Schlander:
Could it be that you're having a problem with the concept of the coming release as such? I mean the long-term-approach/integration of SUSE-packages? I thought this has already been decided. Or is it still open for discussion? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Søndag den 28. juni 2015 23:09:01 skrev Jay:
There's nothing open for discussion. The future is written. Regarding the concept I think openSUSE 42 will be a pretty good competitor for Debian, FreeBSD, Ubuntu Server and CentOS on SOHO servers, but I also think it will be as irrelevant on the desktop as the before mentioned. But there are some unknowns. A lot of claims and "promises" have been made trying to sell the idea, about SLE major releases coming every 3 years (not taking 5 years like the last one), yearly SLE service packs which are "exciting". Hardware support which is backported, and whatnot. Only time will tell if any of that holds true. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 28. Juni 2015, 23:49:56 schrieb Martin Schlander:
OK - then let's make the best of it.
Ahh - now I understand your "Home Server" - proposal. But you may underestimate the number of those who are looking for stability and reliability - for the desktop! Especially in ever faster changing times.
Well, with a positive attitude things tend to get better. The more success the coming release has, the more influence openSUSE will have on future developments. Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 23:49, Martin Schlander wrote:
Possibly. Possibly desktop users will migrate to Ubuntu, if Tumbleweed is not for them. It is already difficult, with things that are only provided for Ubuntu. We might lose a market. By I hope you don't mean that those of use which are desktop users will *have* to migrate because :42 doesn't cater for them. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWQe/UACgkQja8UbcUWM1zNJwD/QwdGYxbaAvEiOsn+5YMPrB20 Rzp8C/HaHzZ1eWivCpMA/2cfyIiZUFS8ZL5VwQgR6pVcSPxKcof2TT3k7ncVllMY =VX3B -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 29/06/2015 00:57, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
By I hope you don't mean that those of use which are desktop users will *have* to migrate because :42 doesn't cater for them.
I don't see it like this. right now the community had to manage *all* the packages of the distro, including servers one. now on the basic packages we can use suse ones, and we still have to manage packages for completing servers and desktop, it's up to us to know wich, but this mean less work on free time for some people, why should this allow less? jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am 28.06.2015 um 17:03 schrieb Martin Schlander:
Don't believe that every desktop user is like you. A lot of users skip 2 and more releases because they don't bother. Greetings, Stephan -- Ma muaß weiterkämpfen, kämpfen bis zum Umfalln, a wenn die ganze Welt an Arsch offen hat, oder grad deswegn. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-29 07:32, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Don't believe that every desktop user is like you. A lot of users skip 2 and more releases because they don't bother.
I only skip those releases that seem problematic, I like to upgrade on every one. And when I do upgrade, I like the software to be recent, full of new features and improvements. Thus, I skipped 13.2 to avoid dracut and wicked first instantiations. Not because I don't want or bother to upgrade, but because those two things have rough edges that scare me. Before release time, I test the betas and RCs from factory and report issues. That was yesteryear. But now, I don't see the point in my testing Tumbleweed. I might instead test the betas of :42, though. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWREJ4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1xk9QD/Qbrj61L8DrGhqtBpHhuuIfSp UMdOaEA1jQuMVeK7kHUA/3Pgh57yYRX3GJYM5c6PXmlXGYvw9igY/pdtzAGBSwqt =IImI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-29 11:35, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Because I feel included in that "a lot of users skip 2...", but not in the "they don't bother". - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWRFsoACgkQja8UbcUWM1xgqQEAl8TlnHMvM9YqAXO6wWepKsKm AfBe2eCb/kkdZ63ZW7QA/jSuxEgQyYthlvo5+ASD47jIPrHdX+KDCsePlcH43ynw =M00y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Mandag den 29. juni 2015 07:32:12 skrev Stephan Kulow:
Don't believe that every desktop user is like you. A lot of users skip 2 and more releases because they don't bother.
I don't. I have spent the last 10 years on the front lines (irc support channels, forums, mailing lists, lug meetings, install parties, writing guides, supporting friends and family members etc.). So I have seen all kinds. While you do have some of those people living under rocks and bushes, minding their own business with outdated (and often unsupported) installations. Sooner or later they'll buy a new laptop, and they can't wait 2-3 years for their distro to get a kernel upgrade. You also need some enthusiasts and power users too, to contribute, spread the word, do support, write howtos etc., if you're gonna have any kind of critical mass. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, June 29, 2015 05:35:02 PM Martin Schlander wrote:
+1 I am regular beta tester. I do upgrades, clean install every single release too. And I also have a few systems skipping releases too. I am sure there is plenty people who work the way I do. The silent majority mass. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
My new proposal is "openSUSE Caravan" See below for my reasoning. On June 27, 2015 10:04:09 AM MDT, Jay <MyMailClone@t-online.de> wrote:
But I see where the confusion comes from. I still like leap, primarily because in my mind it differentiates from the traditional "opensuse march" In the past, opensuse made a release on a schedule. Thus it marched through time. You could setup a metronome and know when a release was coming. 42 is not going to be that way. It is going to leap/bound/rush forward as the SLE team identifies and prepares stable points. I'm not a mountain climber, but is there a term for how a large party traverses a mountain. Ie. An advance team is sent ahead to identify the next stable area, attach ropes and drop them down so the main group can move from one stable area to the next with minimal risk? For 42, the SLE team is the advance team. They identify the next point of stability. They go about the process of smoothing it out and preparing it for the main group. In the ancient middle east a group of travelers that moved from one oasis to the next was called a caravan. There was nothing leading edge about how a caravan worked, it was just a safe way to move around in a dangerous world. Greg -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-28 16:03, greg.freemyer@gmail.com wrote:
You forget to put TW in that picture. They would be the explorers. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWQAEIACgkQja8UbcUWM1wH6wD/QpT6oQInVf1B7+MiiUmeajxG VGa2GvANXIKjg+bz9j0A/iLhQtGLQRqFVXZmVs9e01sMGKzSGOiB3FlN3llQVPVi =sg+v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/16/2015 11:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
I do not like openSUSE Stable. IMHO if that were to be the approach, then to be consistent openSUSE Tumbleweed would best be renamed to openSUSE Rolling-release, which I dislike as I prefer less than Tumbleweed. Even without that consideration, I like "openSUSE oak". I like the symbolism that goes with the 'oak tree' selection. Lee -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 06/16/2015 05:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion, we mostly stayed on track and thus it makes it not too difficult for me to try and pull things together. I think we have lots of ideas and it is time to move from discussions and proposal to action and come to a decision. This is a summary, thus not ever aspect or all proposals will be mentioned explicitly ;) In general it appears that the majority of those participating in the discussion is in agreement that the new release should follow openSUSE <SOME_NAME> <SOME_VERSION> Additionally it appears that we agree that <SOME_NAME> should not change from release to release, thus creating a consistent naming scheme for this releases matching the idea with Tumbleweed openSUSE Tumbleweed <VERSION_IS_SNAPSHOT_DATE> openSUSE <SOME_NAME> <SOME_VERSION> Now of course the tougher part is <SOME_NAME> and <SOME_VERSION>. Lets start with <SOME_NAME>. To stick with the "green" and "plant" theme we had <SOME_NAME> proposed as Oak, Fir, <any_other_tree_known>, with some latin thrown in I would summarize the associations one would go for with the choice of tree name as follows: - - stable, strong, longevity - From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses. A play on words and also playing on duality of two releases was the Rock & Roll naming, i.e. openSUSE Roll <VERSION_IS_SNAPSHOT_DATE> (this would be for Tumbleweed) openSUSE Rock <SOME_VERSION> (this would be the new release) This also had positive responses, although there appeared to be the underlying concern that Tumbleweed would need to be re-named as well and Tumbleweed has become a pretty recognized name. As a third theme a reference to motion was introduced as openSUSE Leap <SOME_VERSION> turns out that Leap also made a nice acronym. I would say that these themes received the most discussion. We had a number of other suggestions with replies. If the name you suggested is not listed explicitly in this summary, sorry. On the <SOME_VERSION> topic it appears that we all agree that the starting version is more or less an arbitrary choice. Most proposals did contain a . in the version which was most often related to the SLE service packs that provide the underlying sources. Thus it would be x.1 for a release based on SP1 sources, then .2 and so on with X incrementing when a completely new source base is available, such as SLE 13 in the future. With X being arbitrary 42, as the project name in OBS and having historical reference in quirkiness in openSUSE appears to have found acceptance. Although starting at 1 is of course just as feasible or even at 12. My gut feel is that people were slightly leaning more toward 42 vs. 1 or 12. Now we need to look at the timing and how we come up with the final name . As a release is targeted for the not too distant future and a milestone is close it would be great to have the milestone released with the final name. The board has been approach to facilitate a quick decision about the name. The board is generally open to have a community vote on the name, with a restricted list based on the summary above. The other option would be for the board to make the name decision. If there is a vote it would have to be a restricted timescale vote due to the timing with a voting period of about 1 week (7 days). Later complaints about "I had no time it was too short" would be considered as bikeshedding. Given that we had both options voiced in the discussions, vote or board decision, can those that have participated in the naming discussion please reply briefly with your preference. Keep in mind the voting period will be short and we'd have to be done by mid July. Later, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVktYtAAoJEE4FgL32d2UktKUH/0SlSG5J7PPMP9EWrpbfhxdz LKxfIXqN118ray4mUG3mzlORy5CtsAep3JxbIQFZq+C+txKBMZTcUny4Kz61lGwT 5YEmAtDZencjGx/6eomihn7ThgTKUv57GHQ8eY6oV9JiIbWEPefHu2uGRj/W9P/L y/Qfem4kLCF02MB7I3evZUpNsEtGJCKoH/UJ4/Lll7V9RKotGeldfhIB6iMgcb+A p/GgO8js44vbg8uWSIMSPdpd6ho/j3r1BqndsX9DF7nduZ16DRBpRIhra3aiEX1q Qp9R0AnUCojHk70WRDPwUmkNzKNs71/ig7r6wCE38//1esEgt0kGXEn4PxiUCPQ= =I+qR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Thank you Robert, I would prefer the community to vote on the new name (and possibly the starting number too). Best, Angelos On 06/30/2015 08:47 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
-- Angelos Tzotsos Remote Sensing Laboratory National Technical University of Athens http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 06/30/2015 10:47 AM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
I'd prefer a vote. That being said, I trust the board, and won't cry about it if they make the decision. - -- James Mason Technical Architect, Public Cloud openSUSE Member SUSE jmason@suse.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSECon 2015: Register at susecon.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJVktjeAAoJEBs5UYhsRJAj2I4H/1BlmDxiE7n9AxhPKTKVrR60 fclkBsyRIUJTZ7Kg3ZvQXUdDUIkNE5oT2oN/qFR492wnZfRu6k+oqExUs6To6yPj pWf39ktjNTrbuy24hqbLo7X1Tla7bqMChFDDNDYpooGyBAR3t2CSHj4m3gfVB13x w/n/PLUmyAlsuoThcT98U4a8rTPrVjqICLFcZ+6NHCWXt72D8dsSFs1Un3Y+dGLv yEwJ7XAnxurfy5ir//yeMunUasA1316C0AI4Su+MJw/+NMdUkfaD4Kzr+D8zBIka /ZgMcxg4aRhN65c9PqzoP/l6ZyrwBTRrOkxfBQ/1KHPu9F0+yryKTKrG2kjwzgw= =4VDL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 30/06/2015 19:47, Robert Schweikert a écrit :
things together. I think we have lots of ideas and it is time to move from discussions and proposal to action and come to a decision.
yes, thanks
yes, but it's almost a joke we can use in discussions, probably not a real name for the reason you give (tumbleweed well known)
My gut feel is that people were slightly leaning more toward 42 vs. 1 or 12.
we absolutely need a solution that can't be confused with old openSUSE version, hence the 12 is out of consideration (IMHO)
The board is generally open to have a community vote on the name, with a restricted list based on the summary above.
I think the boars should choose acceptable solutions and build a vote from them (one for the name, the other for the version). every user of this list knows of the subject, so there no delay to wait for, go and vote. and thanks everybody, I find discussion since the OSC-15 very constructive and useful jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 1:47 PM, Robert Schweikert <rjschwei@suse.com> wrote:
I would prefer to see the board vote. In my ideal, a simple wiki page would be setup where the proponent of each name would put a paragraph or two describing why they think the name is the best choice. The board would then review the proposals and narrow it down to a winner. That not only makes the process faster, it means the voters will be truly taking time to consider the best option. Greg -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2015-06-30 at 14:27 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
I added my reasons for favoring Oak to the wiki page that already exists for "status of discussions" for 42: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:42 This can also be useful for people if there's a vote. (As for the vote vs. board decision, I have no opinion) Rolf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 30. Juni 2015, 13:47:25 schrieb Robert Schweikert:
Good to see things speeding up! I've provided "Leap", "Emerald" and an other option and doing so and taking part in the discussion was fun. But having joined the community only a few days ago, I'd rather abstain from making any suggestions concerning board-vote vs. public vote. I would also not take part in the public vote, should it take place. I'd leave that to the natives here. Rainer -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 2015-06-30 19:47, Robert Schweikert wrote:
I would like the board to make the vote, and, in addition, I recommend to the board members to pick Oak. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-30 19:47, Robert Schweikert wrote:
Yes.
2 options: * general, all public vote, followed by a member only vote, as was done the previous time. or * member only vote, to make it quicker. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWTBsYACgkQja8UbcUWM1zirgD8CYIFV+O5/o/odeevBcsPnvPM sm2bJiQL82PX978dQxwBAIIn+MsPsYedIRIWuREFEYleVDpXdJqcR/Sl6C8EVUUL =qUXf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-30 19:47, Robert Schweikert wrote:
2 options: * general, all public vote, followed by a member only vote, as was done the previous time. or * member only vote, to make it quicker. I would not like the board making the decision. However, it could be a first round of membership vote, then if the result is not clear, the board makes the quality vote. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWTB9sACgkQja8UbcUWM1z53gEAjsfZVKsGGXzD1oE/M4ueM0W7 bSuhDFjv5DWxmsD2fwgBAJx1YRS0u2P/kuJrIl58WjloVJOypuSB818zaZ3L+CM8 =fQR6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Robert Schweikert schrieb:
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
For me, an oak represents something old-fashioned that will never adjust to the times and is very stubborn. Not something I would want to connect with technology at all. As a side note, the color I'd associate with an oak is gray, while it would be better to associate "green" with openSUSE stuff (but then, tumbleweed is mostly brown). KaiRo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello Oak in Afrikaans (oke) means guy, man (familiar talk) quite ok neutral word, but used a lot (more than Oak actually :-) On another note, i personally like that things a are named after what they are, so OpenSUSE stable and OpenSUSE rolling would be my preferences over tubleweed and Oak I know it is fashionable with codenames, but it alienates those only remotely related (and often most in numbers) and makes the issue just a little less accessible, which is against the wish of OpenSUSE (i hope :-). But i know i am far from majority with that opinion :-) Good luck choosing Thomas
On 7/1/2015 at 02:46 PM, Robert Kaiser <kairo@kairo.at> wrote:
Robert Schweikert schrieb:
- From this bunch Oak appeared to have the most positive responses.
For me, an oak represents something old-fashioned that will never adjust to the times and is very stubborn. Not something I would want to connect with technology at all. As a side note, the color I'd associate with an oak is gray, while it would be better to associate "green" with openSUSE stuff (but then, tumbleweed is mostly brown). KaiRo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Top posting as I am not responding to any particular message. I would like to bring this back to the question from the summary, "vote" or "board decision" Most responses have been re-hashing the discussion we already had and I don't think this helps in bringing the process to a conclusion. We need to reach a conclusion as it is probably in our best interest that the first Milestone will be released with the new name. If you have not yet voiced your opinion on the "vote" or "board decision" aspect please do so today. At present I have a 5 to 3 count for vote vs. board decision. However, if there are only 8 people that care about this it may not be worth setting up a poll to begin with and thus the question may answer itself. A simple "vote" or "board decision" response will suffice. No need to keep rehashing the previous discussion . Thanks, Robert - -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVlTMgAAoJEE4FgL32d2UkzkEIAL1z4krQOaSTsHq3I44ZS7dJ +rF1k3urRvsSYHRX0/ne8aVnq39Rwkj2U6Fw7ODxOfnb5/7xW1QTU0G0ecfIti8H FHfXtT1yphYGSSA0wjRbjKe5ot5KDxzDULYfQuTa1E7bP8XOiIgq1HbiPq6dZWyz rrjGMkZGnfPqKUPikPsY5nbYChfuvigKspvU07WqY0Az01teDChhuqyQkqzid2vI MfrG5qGPBQVj5HB3zozltn7yZkAEYjMBNBbyYaCqd12Oo4ABjX/g/bePgixKoTTY 4p8oLGx8YH2N/B0RI6xV97zFB7ZA5yEpZF3FiAXsGihI3aBEcevSpWg1nTST45U= =hVPI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
*vote* -- SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
to., 02.07.2015 kl. 08.48 -0400, skrev Robert Schweikert:
board decision /Bjørn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-02 14:48, Robert Schweikert wrote:
You will get complains for years to come if we don't vote.
Vote, members only (no time to do a round of general vote first, it seems). With quality vote by the board if the result is not clear. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWVNRAACgkQja8UbcUWM1zTygD+NDl1R1Ji17cDmzhzj9Pb341S xQwFBK/C0iHikXz28A0A/1FSA5qNLZ41bJbeLfdqZ14wQH7zxAi0PpAT518LwZGY =bQT8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 2 July 2015 at 14:56, Carlos E. R. <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
With all due respect (and a little humour), I'm sure we'll get complaints from you for years anyway ;) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 02, 2015 at 08:48:32AM -0400, Robert Schweikert wrote:
Vote members only (my number one preference) OR board decision. Public voting is not acceptable to me -- Theo Chatzimichos <tampakrap@opensuse.org> <tchatzimichos@suse.com> System Administrator SUSE Operations and Services Team
Le jeudi 02 juillet 2015 à 08:48 -0400, Robert Schweikert a écrit :
"board decision" because I trust the board ;) -- Frederic Crozat Enterprise Desktop Release Manager SUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 02 July 2015 08:48:32 Robert Schweikert wrote:
I would like to bring this back to the question from the summary,
"vote" or "board decision"
It would be best to stick to the open source mantra "those who do the work decide". If the people actually working on the baby to name do the analysis of what name would work best and then choose one, that would be perfectly fine from my point of view. Doing a public vote about how to decide about a name for a project other people are working on is a direction I think we should try to avoid to go further. -- Cornelius Schumacher <cschum@suse.de> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-02 15:55, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
It would be best to stick to the open source mantra "those who do the work decide".
And I take it you think that only developers and packagers do work. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWVS18ACgkQja8UbcUWM1zgQAD6Ap8pWfe8JMtS+7VH9Fn+/8ts IwWp+264UDWnEvy6zAMA/RXiD6evp6rCgoYzucCSQkzzIT1eA3QQziDdLQXu4ncl =6z3X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Čt 2. července 2015 16:31:59, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):
Carlos, could you please stop the whining (no there is no other word for it anymore). You spent last weeks complaining on these lists until we are all quite numb and added almost no relevant content. We accept your contributions you do in translations and your membership has the same value like anybody else. If we would go and do the metric to convert your one translation commit for one PR to factory you are not exactly stelary top contributor, yet we still try to listen to you, so your point about technical contributors abusing you are not really true. Also attacking everyone that has different proposal from yours is not nice at all. Take some break, read something, rest, and when you don't feel like starting flames all around here come back to chat again.... Tomas
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-02 16:55, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
I do not contribute to factory my translations, that is impossible. No translator does (one tried). You would know that if you had some idea how translations at openSUSE work. And that is not my only contribution, anyway. And no, I'm not attacking anyone. If you feel attacked, then perhaps it is you have some reason to be... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWVUmQACgkQja8UbcUWM1wy+AEAjK+sLqcEpbkr+ECfXbC64pEQ T6+zXJ5xqnRtmf1MhNMA/0wTiVYbQ6zvoQ2xntrngT5kQQ/JzS9ELMKakHVL3q4c =D09y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
"boad decision" as well On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 2:55 PM, Martin Pluskal <martin@pluskal.org> wrote:
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
I'm not a developer, and I have not contributed any packages. I do not have any issues feeling like my opinion is valued as much as anyone. However, I find that non constructive complaints don't help getting people to listen. In fact, I have found that it makes people take my comments with less credence. If your approach is not working for you, try a different approach. Joel Gordon Public Cloud Administrator SUSE 801-885-0137 jgordon@SUSE.com
On 2015-07-02 15:55, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
It would be best to stick to the open source mantra "those who do the work decide".
And I take it you think that only developers and packagers do work. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWVS18ACgkQja8UbcUWM1zgQAD6Ap8pWfe8JMtS+7VH9Fn+/8ts IwWp+264UDWnEvy6zAMA/RXiD6evp6rCgoYzucCSQkzzIT1eA3QQziDdLQXu4ncl =6z3X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hey, On 02.07.2015 15:55, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
It would be best to stick to the open source mantra "those who do the work decide".
[...]
AMEN! If those people delegate it to someone else, fine. But please get off this direct-democracy trip fast... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 02, 2015 at 08:48:32AM -0400, Robert Schweikert wrote:
board decision please Cheers, Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
On 02.07.2015 14:48, Robert Schweikert wrote:
"board decision"
Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Robert Schweikert wrote:
board decision that's what they are there for IMHO. Thanks -- Richard (MQ) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu 02 Jul 2015 08:48:32 AM CDT, Robert Schweikert wrote:
-- Cheers Malcolm °¿° LFCS, SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 12 GNOME 3.10.1 Kernel 3.12.43-52.6-default up 5 days 15:21, 4 users, load average: 0.32, 0.38, 0.33 CPU AMD A4-5150M APU @ 3.3GHz | GPU Richland Radeon HD 8350G -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
"board" I think we, the mailing list readers, can provide a lot more value doing other things; the board members aren't dumb, and if there really is a lot to discuss they're able to have those discussions. Maybe come back with a, "We decided on this name, what do you think?" purely to have some sanity checking from other-language-speakers so we do not end up with something that means 'openSUSE flatulence' in Tagalog or something. AB -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
I think it would be easier to allow the board to choose. In order to quell complaints though, I vote for a vote. On Thu, 2015-07-02 at 08:48 -0400, Robert Schweikert wrote:
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
2015-07-02 13:16 GMT-03:00 jgordon <jgordon@suse.com>:
"board decision" Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Duplicating my response in the other ML (just in case): Board decision -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/07/15 13:48, Robert Schweikert wrote:
"board decision" That's what the board is there for IMHO. (possible duplicate as previous attempt seems to have not reached the list) Thanks -- Richard (MQ) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Am Donnerstag, 2. Juli 2015 schrieb Robert Schweikert:
I would like to bring this back to the question from the summary,
"vote" or "board decision"
board decision (but _if_ there's a vote, I'll of course vote [1])
I'm mostly replying to show that "being silent" (which I was doing in this discussion mostly because everything I had to say was said already) doesn't mean "don't care" ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz [1] for "oak" ;-) -- Herzlich willkommen, kann ich nur sagen. In der linken Ecke der Herausforderer Timo "Newbie" Nentwig, in der rechten Ecke der Weltmeister /usr/bin/"MailCruncher"/procmail, mit satten 70 Kilobyte Lebendgewicht klarer Favorit... Soll ich gongen? [Ratti in suse-linux] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Christian Boltz <opensuse@cboltz.de> wrote:
I've had my say as to the name of the baby, but I think if the "official members" of the openSUSE.org project were promised a vote on important matters as an enticement to become a full member, they should be allowed to have the right to choose to vote or not vote in an official solicitation to vote on this matter. If an organization declares they have a particular manner of governance, it should be consistently applied. Respecfully, PatrickD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-02 22:23, PatrickD Garvey wrote:
Thanks. Yes, that is it. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWWxDQACgkQja8UbcUWM1ycAwD+PAGWFPbTFBT0djBofv0UELLG jRbSE43CWxK++DAPjQ4A/2vMYuB667XxJeo+HIVyEZmUdbQo5TbzGiKTojDNmrjl =1Oab -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 07/02/2015 08:48 AM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
"board decision" - -- Regards, Uzair Shamim -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJVlfz4AAoJEDkGoTyBK96XaY8P/RvxyTwOEnkm/NFD6L0clXIN YznfipfmZYyqUrsGA5xX+o0i3rjmMXyIv105ncFiIkwKNlCtROAuMbc2tCllixxi ltX8rLvIqoZsauKuCcldqTRxXkqilL8wZwg0kw0hhiZtCp9S5hzsVyx8uGcCo3fJ iJJ6O40p7rusG8FLTLDoBZ2Y+uSFKHdK9y0LPZbhNmrDWta9XaTwwl+LP7ID7D4p pQrlI9Bu4M8C2yTDURSq1YB5XHawW0hnoPyQ2082GZRFYi9sVz52CDd2HdSFAeE1 p6GGsNhwOyW9ryY1oYwqCpXtDgz+jibTLwp92UlI1vGUUsWDwPMinClKn3RBHGq9 TXL3unRUS6V6n+2i5dHhFIv8Y8tMXKlGmga+gCItnn9Z8kaTSCm1IKbEeR+uHsNk syMhkbeXRV4K+P4errSGBXxtsbR+ovlilqCYJSpK8P7mXh+DUMRpJ6r2VFewXcV8 YnzteSKc26Y5ZB/3nj+e7RDYaVIbfDHZHdgKTY/Iw9M3m/QkETTvgjpigiEfOs8x w9MOPtFYmaGhTckhzNnbIB8+1th43cPWsyz6f17919QcydjcYhPU8rKSeQSrxEux NJKz/MduXGDdzU9OU7j/0HYVQRAVQIuRDZzcmOYerHjA24pig1oKsl3KTyHLf8EG g9IIvXPzk1yjB9hAdBih =YoGQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2015-07-02 at 08:48 -0400, Robert Schweikert wrote:
"board decision"
-- Atri Bhattacharya -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Út 30. června 2015 13:47:25, Robert Schweikert napsal(a):
I would say board should be enough to decide this. In the end we voted you guys in and have to keep faith that you do your best ;) Cheers Tom
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-02 15:01, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
I would say board should be enough to decide this. In the end we voted you guys in and have to keep faith that you do your best ;)
So, the membership can only vote the board, and nothing else? ... yet you people complain that members participate very little, and plan to evict those that do not participate in votes... Interesting... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWVTCQACgkQja8UbcUWM1xqFAD+Ir3f5vqSDAUNBt81Y0bfZzaC SM/B+0pfdZ5bGa279LsA/2uw2Dd71ZbBX1I/YNKhvCKAHBHrpYYlOenVUsU6swzP =OGd6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, sorry for joining the discussion so late. openSUSE Bonsai Bonsais are cool, beautiful, green, they need a lot of effort to 'create and maintain', they are traditional. It should be also easy to create brand. Best regards, Tomas Cech Sleep_Walker
participants (55)
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oldcpu -
Patrick Shanahan -
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Richard (MQ) -
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Tomáš Chvátal -
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Uzair Shamim