On 12/16/10 16:08, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 5:30 AM, Matt Gray firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
reasonable enough reason.
on the other hand, so much is revolutionary in this release including a genuinely awesome KDE4 desktop this time around, project Bretzn, opensource broadcom drivers, speedy kernel patch, bluez, and much more, that it is tempting to give this release the 12.0 moniker.
if the multi-touch xinput extensions make it in I would be all for twelve, as that would make a huge boost to Meego/touch interface respins of suse on arm and intel.
Is there a read-me or draft press release that gives at least a basic overview of the above?
My limited understanding is:
awesome KDE4 desktop this time - i thought we said that about KDE 4.4? What's so great about 4.6?
project Bretzn - never heard of it. I doubt users are clamoring for it.
opensource broadcom drivers - nice, but my reading is that this is for limited set of new devices. I'd like to know more about the range of supported devices before considering this a killer feature.
speedy kernel patch - most users are not impacted. Those that are can do this in 11.3 (as I understand it) via a boot time script.
bluez - I've at least heard of this, but don't know what it is.
multi-touch xinput extensions - very limited set of users, why update the whole distro version for this?
=== If KDE 4.6 is really a huge improvement over 4.4 and we don't expect a similar big jump in the 11.6 timeframe, then I see an issue.
If we bump to 12.0 because of KDE as the main reason, then we should also bump to 13.0 when GNOME 3.0 is out.
That sounds like a poor way forward.
My vote is to wait for GNOME 3.0 to be released and bump to 12.0 with the release that includes it.
=== OTOH, I'd love to see something like comprehensive and fully integrated support of SSDs (including discard support) in a laptop environment be the driver for the 12.0 moniker.
For environments with a single storage device (eg. a laptop) we are so close, a last minute push could get everything into 11.4, but I think it would need to be project priority and get several people involved.
--> current status as of current factory
The kernel support is there to a major extent with 2.6.37. (ext4 and xfs only I believe)
(I'm ignoring btrfs since its still experimental, and VFAT because I hope a Linux laptop would not use VFAT as a primary FS type.).
The userspace scripts for wiper.sh / hdparm are there already for 11.2 and 11.3 releases. Bug fixes for both were rolled out via the update channel a couple months ago. Obviously factory has these.
A new userspace tool to invoke a new 2.6.37 ext4 background discard feature is supposed to be in 11.4 (it may be in this milestone. Part of linux-utils. The util is trivial and basically just makes a ioctl call. The magic is in the 2.6.37 kernel.)
The gpart partitioning tools and yast partitioner module were updated for 11.3 to align newly created partitions on Erase Block boundaries, so that is already in.
All that's missing is read me files, press releases, a cron entry automatically created to invoke the script if needed and possibly some yast partitioner updates to inform the user that a drive is a SSD and ask how they want discard handled. (There are at least 3 options for ext4 based filesystem. Only one should be used as they provide redundant functionality. The choice is driven by multiple factors.)
And most importantly testing.
fyi: For more background of what I'm talking about, see this wiki page I maintain: http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:SSD_discard_%28trim%29_support
I entirely agree with your advocacy in favour of full SSD support for 11.4, i have an SSD in my desktop, but i don't see how it is substantially different from any other rejected feature as a justification for version number changes, if those rejected ones were not good enough already.
As said to Vincent, I agree that features invisible to users are not necessarily the best candidates for justifying a marketing stunt like changing major version numbers, but i do think you are wrong on project Bretzn. Having a fully integrated app-store built into opensuse 11.4 is a 'big' thing, especially if it arrives only two months after apple launches its mac app-store on January 6th, in a world where everyones mobile phone has made app-stores a part of their daily life.
On "bluez", apologies, i was referring to the new bluetooth stack, and i do believe the x-input extensions will be an important differentiator, if only for smeegol tablet builds.
Importantly, it is not any one feature, it is the fact that there are so many of them all arriving together, so to state;
"If we bump to 12.0 because of KDE as the main reason, then we should also bump to 13.0 when GNOME 3.0 is out."
......... is to mis-characterise the reason for me suggesting it.
I sincerely hope that you SSD feature makes the grade for 11.4, it is important, but as said again to Vincent i am not commited to calling the next release 12, merely suggesting a justification for why it might be appropriate.