šumski composed on 2015-11-03 19:41 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
šumski composed on 2015-10-31 22:07 (UTC+0100):
Felix Miata wrote:
Luca Beltrame composed on 2015-10-31 19:19 (UTC):
FYI, upstream will switch to Noto for Plasma 5.5.
Can you explain why Oxygen has been require rather than recommend, or suggest who might know?
Because it's default font. We rather not want something like that be missing.
Who is we?
We the people.
Lots of people on this planet. :-p Which people are "we"? KDE dev upstream dev people? KDE user people (by voting or polling)? SLE/openSUSE KDE packager people? Independent font expert people? SLE/openSUSE font expert people? People who prefer them in a direct side by side comparison of Oxygen with similar fonts? More than a pittance of people with poorer than average visual acuity? A11Y or U7Y people?
Isn't requires supposed to be reserved for avoiding breakage or total failure, rather than simply providing what theme, packagers and/or upstream simply "want"?
Yes and no. I'd say recommends applies for additional features, and requires for default ones.
IMO the "defaults" should require only those that the distro overall picks, and individual DEs should not compel installation of more, merely prefer them if/when available. Absence of a particular font family for which generically equivalent glyphs are available doesn't *break* anything other than maybe themers' egos.
That KDE applications are working w/o Oxygen font is only an accident.
It does not look like that is the case here. Certainly 'rpm -e --nodeps kde-oxygen-fonts' produces no observed failure here of Plasma or KDE5 apps to start or function normally.
I want to *never* have to see Oxygen Sans or Oxygen Mono on any of my own installations, which as things stand, conflicts with my interest in running Plasma5. Needing to rpm -e --nodeps after every upgrade gets old, but establishes that the Oxygen dependency is a non-essential edict.
Is Noto going to become a require? Will Oxygen stay a require?
Yes. Yes. Oxygen mono is still default monospace font (AFAICS)
I thought the same people begging for Noto for proportional were also calmoring for Source Code Pro for monospace (not that it matters here, as fc-match on generics here always produces a Droid)???
Not those people.
If "we want" is the only reason for installing any font, it should be a suggests or recommends. Otherwise it's bloatware, which should be avoidable by those who want lean installations. Requiring both Noto and Oxygen means double bloat, unless most other DE's "want" them as well, or DejaVu, intlfonts, efont-unicode-bitmap-fonts and/or others that have been being installed by default for many years stop being part of base X and most DE patterns.
Let's agree to disagree.
Let's not, at least for now, and hear what others have to say. I looked, and cannot find any evidence of superiority between Oxygen and similar fonts that have been choosen for the distro overall, let alone any characteristic justifying mandatory installation. Oxygen's typically (though slightly) lighter apparent stroke weight actually makes them worse than average, absent use at sizes larger than would otherwise be appropriate. See: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=951898 fonts are ugly compared to Mint and Ubuntu Samples facilitating side-by-side comparison: http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/fonts-comps-oxy.html Screenshots taken using the above, at various display densities, with and without AA applied: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/b951898-108aa0.png http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/b951898-108full.png http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/b951898-120full.png http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/b951898-132aa0.png http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/b951898-132full.png http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/b951898-168aa0.png http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/b951898-168full.png http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/b951898-192full.png Oxygen samples, 7pt-20pt & 9px-32px: http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/font-oxygen.html Same/similar for the others used in above comparisons: http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/font-dejasans.html http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/font-droidsans.html http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/font-libsans.html http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/font-noto.html http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/Font/font-roboto.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org