On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Greg KH
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 03:24:06AM +0100, Stephan Kleine wrote:
On Friday February 18 2011 23:13:41 todd rme wrote:
Le 04/02/2011 20:05, jdd a écrit :
Le 04/02/2011 19:57, Stefan Seyfried a écrit :
Same procedure, once 11.5 comes out: remove 11.4 repos and add 11.5 => zypper dup.
could it be possible to have a link "latest" or "current" to have the repos changed automagically?
jdd
I would like something like this as well. One of the advantages I saw for tumbleweed was to be able to just set up your repositories and never have to touch them again. I know several people who refuse to use openSUSE solely because they can't do this. So I think being able to seamlessly upgrade to what amounts to a new openSUSE version without needing to do anything more than your everyday updates would be a huge benefit for tumbleweed.
+1 - the reason that killed Tumbleweed for me was when you (Greg) announced that you plan to always base it on whatever latest released distro instead of making it a truly rolling one.
Why? How difficult is it _really_ to edit 3 files, every 8 months, changing a "3" to a "4", and then a "11.4" to a "12.0"? Heck, if it's that tough, I'll make up a script that everyone can run to do this :)
I can tell you that I know several people who will not do this. It isn't just a matter of this, you also have to keep track of the openSUSE news as well. They just don't have the time to worry about this, they have enough work on their plate without it.
IIRC you back then said that linking packages didn't work out. Can you please elaborate a bit on this part and why since I don't really get that part? (while I'm not exactly new to OBS and how linking works there)
Ok, I decided not to do this for a number of reasons: - as mentioned later in this email thread, I don't want people to have to have a whole new repo to build against.
But they will if they want to build any packages that build against something in tumbleweed. And not doing this makes building anything against tumbleweed much, much harder. And adding a new build target is practically trivial if it is a single target.
- I want to build on the solid base of our releases, and not require the build service, and mirrors, to have to send out an entire copy of the existing 11.4 (or whatever the base is) packages to the world for no reason.
Then why can't it just mirror the 11.4 packages that aren't different in tumbleweed? Just have those be direct copies (or even symlinks or hard links in the filesystem). I know this is not possible under obs, but it is openSUSE build service. Surely if there is a feature you need to make this an optimal experience I would think that it could be implemented. Can't you talk to the people behind obs and get the features you need for tumbleweed implemented? I am sure this would have other uses as well. I know packman is switching obs 2.1 and had to do their own hacks to do pretty much the same thing with their own repo, so it seems this is a feature that would be useful more generally. So rather than having to cut corners to work with how obs is currently set up, wouldn't it be better to get the features you need implemented? You were talking about getting this implemented for the release after 11.4, surely that is enough time for something like this to be implemented in obs.
- versions get out of whack, so it looks like you are "downgrading" when installing Tumbleweed. This causes confusion and has the potential to cause future updates to get out of sync without making it easy to recognize
obs should have a system to make sure packages in a certain repo always have version numbers higher than in another repo. Once again, this might make life easier for groups like packman as well.
- Updates get messy, and slower. I would have to monitor the updates channel and rebuild everyone of them for Tumbleweed users, ideally the instant they show up in the Update channel, due to security updates. If we don't have a whole copy of the distro in Tumbleweed, we can rely on the great work the openSUSE security and maintenance team does with updates for bugs and security issues.
If the updates repo has tumbleweed as a build target, why would you have to do anything?
- reverting back. It's simpler to revert back from Tumbleweed to the "base" distro by just disabling a single repo, instead of disabling and then enabling the original ones. This makes it easier to roll back specific packages if problems occur, and gives me a simpler way to recover from errors that happen in the Tumbleweed process (like the recent zypper and libzypp and yast2 mess that happened a few weeks ago.)
So four clicks instead of two? Weren't you talking about how manually changing the numbers in the repo data for anywhere from three to a dozen repos was easy? Yet clicking one additional check box is too hard? It seems this is making an unusual case, rolling back a release, a tiny bit easier in exchange for making a typical use case, updating your system, considerably harder. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org