On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 01:22:05 Sven Burmeister wrote:
On Friday 08 October 2010 16:06:32 Peter Van Lone wrote: [...]
the "tool meant to be used for selecting files" is not accepted/understood or liked much by people.
Is it? I did not see any complains on this list or the kde one over the last few weeks/months.
Just because we don't complain doesn't mean we like it. It sucks!
It seems an awkward and unlikely extra bit when we can simply left-click on the thing to select it, and then use ctrl or shift to extend the selection to other objects.
Only if you explain every new computer user that he has to use CTRL and SHIFT for that. Or you add a hint to the GUI and thus make it easy to discover which is what the appearing "+" is.
How many new KDE users are new computer users? IMHO by far the majority of those trying KDE for the first time come from other de's, whether alternatives on Linux (e.g. Gnome, LXDE, Fluxbox etc.), Windows or Mac (in their various iterations). Just about everywhere else that I've come across CTRL-Click (for selecting a non-contiguous range of files) and SHIFT-Click (for selecting a contiguous range) are long-time accepted conventions that are well understood by anyone with a modicum of gui experience. OK, they may not be the most efficient paradigm but they are the most common. Changing that for the sake of change leads to confusion and frustration. Having said that, I *like* KDE 4 and have been using it since 4.0.4 (and exclusively without recourse to 3.x since 4.1.x). I just think some of the default settings are opposite from what they should be, but it's not worth bitching about. Even Windows allows you to change the behaviour from double to single click for launching (ever since they introduced the "web desktop" somewhere around Win 98 - it just wasn't the default mode of operation.
So I claim using CTRL and SHIFT for selecting files is rather less straight- fowrward because you cannot know about it without learning it or reading about it since there are no hints in the GUI. Why CTRL and not ALT? Why SHIFT for selecting one way and CTRL the other, why not the other way around? Why is a key that is used to switch to uppercase used for selecting multiple files, where is the obvious link between the two features to map them to the same key? Where is the logic? Or was it not rather something set-up artificially and learnt rather than a good design usability-wise?
There are only 102-108 keys on a "standard" PC (QWERTY) keyboard and only a few are "modifier" keys which, in pre-gui days, were carried-over (for the most part, with some minor changes) from typewriters and dedicated word- processors (to keep the typists happy). The advent of the gui meant new paradigms and the adoption of some additional uses for the existing modifier keys (Alt-Shift-Ctrl). Some of the key combinations also carried over from mainframe terminals Yes, I know, that means that they're all done for purely historical reasons and because so far no-one has come up with a "better" alternative that is intuitive and easily re-learned by experienced users with a long background in computing. The KDE devs probably argue that they have now come up with that alternative - that is their prerogative. Some who've tried it disagree - that is our prerogative. All we ask is the defaults be set to suit the majority of potential users (those who are familiar with the "current" (or old, depending on your point of view) way of doing things and let those who want to switch to the new paradigm, rather than confusing and frustrating the hell out of people until they figure out how to switch back to their preferred way of doing things.
Instead the devs chose the new selection tool which is a lot easier to understand for new users which do not know about holding CTRL in order to select multiple files.
says who?
Common sense? How do you know about CTRL being linked to slecting multiple files? Did you guess? Was it obvious? Was it a hint the GUI gave you? You learnt it.
Yes. Many, many years ago. Windows 3.0 circa 1992/93 in fact. Before that, it was all done via the kb - mice were pretty useless with dos-based apps like Lotus 1-2-3 v1 and Wordstar/Word Perfect... ;-) BTW, we still have Tab, Ctrl-Tab, Alt-Tab and Shift-Tab that all do pretty much the same things as they did back then for moving around between tabs, windows, panes, menus, selecting from lists etc. without using the mouse. That is another reason why the Ctrl-click and Shift-click hung around for so long, because Ctrl+Space (or Ctrl-+ and Ctrl- -)and Shift-Up/Down did selection long before mice came along, so keeping the same modifiers for use with the mouse made sense then. Another thing - for most operations, even with a gui, a touch typist will be much faster on the keyboard using shortcuts than by moving one hand to the mouse. All the more reason to maintain consistency of modifier functions between kb and mouse modes of operation. Maybe there aren't too many touch typists among the KDE devs, though - KDE 4 seems to be much more mouse-bound than earlier de's which isn't necessarily A Good Thing(TM). Just my $0.02AUD worth (which is worth a bit more than it used to be given the current strength of our currency ;-) ). I'll go back and lurk in the corner now :-). -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au =================================================== -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org