On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 11:03 -0800, Ben Rosenberg wrote:
On 11/17/05, Ken Schneider
wrote: On Thu, 2005-11-17 at 19:46 +0200, Andre Truter wrote:
On 11/17/05, Peter Van Lone
wrote: I don't have a problem with noobs putting a GUI on a server, I have a
problem with experienced admins running a GUI on a server. (I did not mean to offend noobs, sorry)
Then why offend experienced admins that use a GUI to admin a machine? Not all configs are easily handled via the CLI and there are fewer possibilities of making errors using a well written GUI that uses syntax checking. I happen to use and like using webmin for doing a lot of my admin work, not all but enough. Actually makes it easier to admin postfix.
Well, I never said I had issue with new users putting X on their servers or using things like YaST to admin their machines.. it was not what I was saying with the email I sent. What I had taken offense to was the same ole same ole crap of saying Linux was hard because people had to actually learn the methodology of UNIX/Linux. It really irks me when recent converts come onto this list and start talking the same ole tired bullshit about how Linux should change to fit their needs.. if Windows suited their needs then they wouldn't be looking elsewhere. They obviously had to learn Windows, Netware or whatever at some point so they shouldn't complain that they have to read HowTo's or something like the Linux Bible to get going. This is complicated stuff because it can be anything the user wants it to be... and if they can find a GUI config tool to get their work done.. more power to them. I use Postfix Enabler on my Powerbook because it makes setting up Postfix so easy a monkey could do it.
Again, my objection to earlier emails wasn't the use of a UI but the dissing of Linux because it is not Windows and the complaint that they might have to RTFM or ask someone how to do something that they could do in 30 minutes under Windows because they had years of experience using Windows. One doesn't just walk into a room and start talking shit about the host and other guests .. being humble and willing to do a bit of leg work is respectable.. saying that everyone in the room should immediately take up their way of thinking just because they've appeared on the scene is total crap.
Note: Ken, I'm not talking about you but about the lazy bastards who can't / won't learn the methodology of UNIX/Linux without doing the "Linux won't take up market share until it's more like Windows." .. we're not here to make sure Linux gets market share... we're hear to make sure those who come seeking help.. are well.. helped. But this doesn't mean we have to kowtow to every recent convert who sends a subscribe email. ;D
-Ben Agree whole heartily, you use the best tool for the job at hand whether it be CLI or GUI.
-- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998