Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-translation (94 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-translation] Managing SUSE translations in unified way
  • From: "Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 21:42:04 +0200 (CEST)
  • Message-id: <alpine.LNX.2.00.1304292038510.27450@Telcontar.valinor>
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On Monday, 2013-04-29 at 19:02 +0200, Vít Pelčák wrote:

2013/4/29 Carlos E. R. <>:

Because it is you who is propossing we use a different tool and set of
procedures than those we already use, so the onus is on you to convince us
:-)

Pardon me? I don't remember me proposing anything.

Sorry, I confuse names. This is your second post in this mail list since 2006 at least. Welcome, newcommer. Who are you, then? :-?


Maybe you have a point that all our procedures are not documented in
English, or that the English documentation is obsolete. Well, you can then
simply ask us about it, and we'll try to explain.

In that case, you cannot wonder that there is attempt to unify current
mess, when you don't tell anybody about your tool and basically nobody
uses it.

Mess? :-o

Nobody? :-o

Vertaal is currently used by these openSUSE translation teams:

Italian
Russian
Hungarian
German
Czech
Greek
Spanish
Arabic
Brazilian Portuguese
French
Galician
Portuguese
Punjabi
Catalan
Turkish
Georgian


But I must say again that each team uses their own organization, and they
document it (or not) in their own languages, because it is their own people
who has to read it.

And that might actually be the reason why there is attempt to
implement some tool. Nobody knows about yours, so it was assumed that
there are none such in place.

We are the people doing the translations, and we know about the tools we can use. It is you, newcommer, who don't know. Ask the team translating your language, join it, and contribute :-)



I agree, it was not good idea to try to implement something without
consulting community.
Nevertheless, it is not excuse for your behaviour.

Nor yours :-)

Sorry? I criticise and give reasons and arguments. While you just
complain and are overall unconstructive.

We are already here doing things. You want to come and change how we do things... the onus is on you, not us.



There could still be some debate started. Something actually
productive. Something what would lead to benefit of whole community.
Why did you try so much to prevent it from happening?
It looks pretty selfish to me, to be honest.

Because it was worded as an already made decission from above, without the
translator community having any thing to say or do.

As I said, nobody knew about your tool, it was assumed, that there is
none.

You people did not bother to ask us first.

Sure, I understand, that question whether there are some
problems with such decission should be asked first, nevertheless, you
could choose more constructive approach to reach some compromise which
would make everyone happy.

As said, the onus is on the people wanting to change the current system.


Anyway, Tomas is just member of community. Just like you, on the same
level. He offered to dedicate his time and effort into improving
current suboptimal situation.

But he is not a member of the translator community here.


And in case you haven't noticed, just your complaints were enough to
stop that effort. So, apparently, it was not decission from above as
it would otherwise be forced down our throats whether we like it or
not.

I was not the only one complaining. I'm the one putting more words into it. How many posts do you here from translators saying "yeah, lets do it!"?


And, as far as I see it, the propsed method will simply stop me working on
translations, I would have to quit.

While current situation makes many people not to start at all.

They are free to contribute...

There are languages that have only one person or two, an they use their own methods (and tools). It is a lot of work, some languages started not long ago and have much to catch up.

Some other languages may even have financial contributions...



/That/ is how we work.


You were defending your position by saying that your tool is
documented, which it effectively is not.


It is not /my/ tool. It is a tool that members of this community developed
and implemented when they saw we needed something.

"Your" means, tool (only) your team uses. Which is correct.

Several language teams, dude.


It is not the first tool
or solution we tried, but the third IIRC, and the most succesful one, yet.
I'm just a happy user of this tool.

One of ... er ... three users?

How do you count the number of users?


So, do you mean it in a way, that it is OK if those three people block
improvement for the remaining languages?


Again, how do you count the number of users?


Let me see... 11 people on the german team. 9 on the Italian. 32 on the French. 12 on the Spanish. And there are more teams.


Say again... 3 people? :-O


If you can not find out how we use it, say so and I will try to explain it.
Maybe write it in some wiki iin English, time permitting.

Thing is, that you should've been more public about this tool with
propper howto/wiki/whatever in place before.

Why?

People wanting to contribute translations find the translation wiki, find the mail list, and ask to join. We guide them to the documentation they need and teach them with what they need.


For example, I looked at the general wiki, <http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Localization_guide>. From there I found the wiki of the French team, and there I found a link to vertaal documentation here <https://github.com/dahool/vertaal/wiki/User-Guide>, in English.

It is not that difficult to find...



Then it would be different storry. Nobody would come with sentence
"OK, I'm going to implement this".

Just compare accessibility of your tool with Weblate. Google returns
its webpage just in first entry found.
While for your tool, it was not so much. Then you cannot wonder that
basically nobody knows your tool and assumes there's none.

The openSUSE translator community knows about it. You don't know about it because you don't contribute here. Your help will be welcome ;-)

- -- Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar)
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