Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-project (301 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-project] Evergreen release planning
On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 06:58:36PM +0000, Nelson Marques wrote:
[ 8< ]
This is no question of first and second class.  More than 80 lists isn't
good to a project.  Check how many of these lists had close to no
traffic in the last three months or half year,  Then you might get the
direction of my suggestion.

I do agree with you that 80 lists might be not so good for a project,
but this lists should be analysed on a "per se" basis, and I find it
also not good that a project that acts under the umbrella brand
doesn't have a dedicated mailing list because there are already too
much lists (in which many shouldn't even exist).

In other words, your stance bring more harm than good to Evergreen
because others earlier might have taken the wrong decision regarding
to lists. Furthermore... not all need to be signed in all lists, but
the special requirements of Evergreen can easilly justify having it's
own list... and not having it might reduce the hability that people
have to re-structure and organize the project...

In other words, if you are not part of the solution, you are becoming
a part of the problem.

Sorry, I'm not able to see how my suggestion to keep the openSUSE
traffic as long as a particular topic doesn't harm on the main list
causes potential trouble.

But this might be a language issue. Or simply a question of logic. To
Wolfgang who's driving evergreen this all had been less an issue.

And to me this is neither. Cause either if a new list is created
someone lese might pass what ever Samba version from the network:samba
name space of the Open Build Servive to evergreen or even not.

Or check a project like Samba.  How are we able to handle it with only
two lists since so many years?

not my fight.

What are you trying to express with this sentence? That you don't care
about the argument?

I've given an example how a huge project is able to work with two lists.
openSUSE has already more than 80. Do you see the contrast? That was
my goal. Independent if you use or don't use Samba. This is a generic

And to my negative surprise I've seen we now have a dedicated
opensuse-arm list too.  This is anything else than good to the project I
fear.  Cause more and more lists cause more fragmentation of the

Denying a list to a project that clearly can take advantage of it is
neither good, despite if you like it or not.

I don't like the idea and argue against it. I'm not in the role to deny
anything what's happening with openSUSE. That's what I even tried to
express with my previous answer.

Sometimes it's quite usefull to read mails you reply to. ;) Or to ask
back if something wasn't clear enough.

Please count the lists openSUSE already is offering at  They had been more than 80 last time I counted them.

Between a project that wants to earn it's own lifestream and vitallity
and a few defunct lists that are on that webpage, I'm not really sure
if you are acting to protect or to harm openSUSE with such claims.

It is to protect and to focus.  Look, I'm not going to subscribe to any
additional openSUSE list.  I'm already on to many.

Good point... So how are people who want to do things for Evergreen
are going to focus? On a Factory mailing list? on a project mailing

Please show us your solutions on how to coordinate or run a project
without a simple thing like a mailing list... that's something I bet
most of us would be delighted to ear, instead of the traditional "I
dont like this".

We have opensuse@xxxxxxxxxxxx as written in my initial reply. This
existing list we can use for the evergreen purpose too. And as soon as
evergreen causes to much noise comapred to all the other topics then
it's time to requests a dedicated list. That's the generic way how
mailing lists of projects are organized.

A fresh list isn't created on request. There must the a proofen need.

Well, even for this topic the basic mailing list rules apply.  Why
should there be any difference?

Thanks for showing us a bit more on how openSUSE is run by SUSE :)

My opinion has close to nothing to do with the opinion of SUSE.  This is
my personal view and in this particular case also written in my private

My personal stance is that it's far more easier to achieve the goal of
Evergreen by forking SLE like CentOS did with Red Hat than go through
all of this crap that leads no where... It's becoming far easier to
work off project than within project.

a) You reply here competly out of context. Read what I've written
before and see your reply.

b) Crap? This is the normal process you have to pass if you're part of
an Open Source project. Your writing about evergreen, SLE, CentOS, and
RedHat has nothing to do with the generic mechanisms we discussed.

Apples should kept separate from pears.


Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ]
Samba Team
SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
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