Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (138 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: IDEA: NetworkManager by default for Desktops
On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 16:20:39 +0200
Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 10 April 2018 at 12:16, Richard Brown <RBrownCCB@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hi All,

In both Leap & Tumbleweed we currently have the following logic for
choosing which tool manages your network after installation

"IF laptop AND NetworkManager is being installed THEN use
NetworkManager, ELSE wicked"

I've noticed an increasing trend that this can lead to confusion.

Many users from other distributions expect NetworkManager on their
desktops regardless of whether they are using a laptop or a desktop.

GNOME expects NetworkManager by default and shows a rather
unpleasant error when loading up the settings screen without it.[1]

There are certainly classes of hardware where NetworkManager might
be wanted that will never match "IF laptop" - eg. my personal Inter
Compute Stick.

And "IF laptop" is dependant on YaST correctly detecting you're
using a laptop, which isn't 100% accurate, so occasionally even
laptops might end up with wicked unexpectedly.

I would like to propose a possible solution.

It looks like we should be able to pin the choice of network tool to
specific system role.

I would like to propose that the installation options KDE and GNOME
therefore always have NetworkManager by default

Server & Transactional will always have wicked by default

Custom will keep the current "autodetect" behaviour, because we cant
be sure that the environment that the user is installing has support
for NetworkManager in this case.

Whatever is setup "by default" during installation will be able to
be changed in YAST after the installation, just like it is today.

What do we all think? If there is strong support for this idea I
think Ludwig is prepared to let me try and slip it in as a late
feature for Leap 15, so please let your opinions be heard loudly
and quickly either way.

Regards,

Richard

[1] http://paste.opensuse.org/33301696

Reviving this old thread just to say that after all the feedback on
this thread, it's now my intention to implement this soon (probably
after Hackweek)

This will mean I hope for it to be available in Tumbleweed & Leap 15
SP1

This change will likely come alongside some cleanup with the
installation workflow. The intention is to stop using the openSUSE
specific 'Desktop Selection' module in YaST, and instead use the
SLE15/Kubic style 'System Role' screen

Practically speaking, users should notice no real functional change.
The same 5 options (KDE Desktop, GNOME Desktop, Server & Transactional
Server, and Custom) should be offered

But will instead be presented with a menu that will include more help
text for each option, describing what each system role does for
example. You can see how this works in openSUSE Kubic, which has
already moved to this module in it's installation workflow.

Behind the scenes this will give me an excuse to do a major tidy up to
the spiders-web which is 'skelcd-control-openSUSE' and remove lots of
now obsolete options and references, that no one dares remove because
we're all scared of breaking the old installation workflow.

It will also allow the YaST team to stop maintaining all of that
unshared openSUSE specific code, and give openSUSE the opportunity to
investigate options currently available in SLE, such as having
system-roles offered by rpm packages.
This is used by SLE to allow SLE modules to add new system role
options on the installer.
In theory openSUSE could use it so additional repositories could do
the same thing.
AFAIK there's no plans for anyone to actually make use of this, but I
think it's kinda cool so I wanted to mention it here.

Obviously, everything done here will be fully tested and will only be
seen by users once it's passed several layers of testing.
But if anyone strongly objects, here's your opportunity to persuade me
otherwise before I inconveniencing some btrfs datablocks with my xml.

Regards,

Richard


+1

This seems completely sensible to me. For those who have not been
expsoed to SLE15, I like the new installer method with "roles".

Tnanks,

Peter
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