On Thursday, 12 April 2018 10:27 Stefan Seyfried wrote:
On 11.04.2018 09:29, Michal Kubecek wrote:
And... why exactly? So far the only argument you
for strong words like "abomination") was "it's SUSE-only".
we drop YaST, based on the same logic? Or zypper?
YaST, I would not care too much. Zypper? Probably not.
But if all (maybe just all RPM based) distribution would agree on one
package management tool, then that would certainly be an improvement.
If distributions gave up on giving their users something extra (like
zypper, YaST, SaX, ...), what would be the point of having different
distributions at all? Wallpapers, color schemes, default package
selection and perhaps some default settings? I'm afraid that's not
enough; after all, these are the things I have to change after every
The reason I'm using openSUSE even if I wholeheartedly hate many
decisions of the project in last ~5 years, even if I have my concerns
about how the project is governed, is not because the login screen has
green background (well, it does not, any more). It's because that
something extra: OBS, zypper, YaST (I'm not using it much but it's good
to have it when I need to configure something I'm not familiar with,
Even wicked is one of those reasons. I must admit I was reluctant about
it at first and I was genuinely unhappy when I learned it's not going to
be an alternative to the traditional scripts but a replacement. But I
learned to live with it and I appreciate that it doesn't get in my way
if I don't want it to (which is hardly something I could say about
systemd-* tools in general). There are bugs, sure, but they are dealt
with by competent developers.
But for wicked.
Well, I was at the openSUSE conference in Prague when it was
presented, and it was a typical "we invent something before looking
left and right what's already there" thing. Actually I still can
remember Olaf's puzzled face when the RedHat developers (there was
not only openSUSE conf but some other conferences at the same time at
the same venue, and so other distro developers were present) asked
"why didn't you work with us to get this into the upcoming
I guess this "puzzled face" was mostly because at the time, there was
not much of systemd-networkd. Not much more than an idea that if the
great plan is to replace all system tools by some systemd-something
(which is philosophy I totally disagree with), network configuration
management shouldn't be an exception. Six years later, wicked has been
in use in SLE for 3.5 years and even if, as you claim, everyone else is
happily working on systemd-networkd, it's not on par with wicked, not by
So... who should be accused of "NIH syndrome" and asked why they insist
on developing their own solution rather than joinin the work on existing
and he had to admit that he never looked if there are
that do the same.
I've been there (chairing the session, actually) and I remember one of
the two (don't remember if Olaf or Mariusz) talking about existing tools
and explaining why they didn't want to use any of them. And, as I said,
systemd-networkd couldn't really be considered "other project" at the
Reminded me of the Old (Y2K) SUSE style of bad NIH
As I said above, that's rather problem of systemd-networkd in this case.
even know if systemd-networkd can actually do everything
we use wicked for but you are absolutely sure switching to it would
be an improvement?
I'm fighting wicked every day. I'm quite sure almost everything would
be an improvement ;-)
That's a common mistake. People tend to think that if they dislike
something, anything else would be better. In reality, it rarely works
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