Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (1134 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-factory] Calling for a new openSUSE development model - we're not that evil
  • From: Jos Poortvliet <jos@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:46:54 +0200
  • Message-id: <2054328.mV7friusY4@linux-6upc>
On Thursday 14 June 2012 23:31:13 Obexer Christoph wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012, 10:46:32 schrieb Stephan Kulow:

Let's discuss things very openly - I think we learned enough about where
the current model works and where it doesn't so we can develop a new one

Greetings, Stephan

I'm one of those unwanted posters that could become a contributor but
won't given the warm welcome on this list as somebody else already
pointed out in another part of this thread.

A while ago i filed a request for just this improvement in /dev/null err i basically got no attention, so i
planned to post here after the 12.2 release - you were faster and i would
have been flamed / ignored anyway^^

I've seen a few openSuSE releases from the Factory perspective (being here
since the KDE4.0 release) and the failure pattern for Factory was always
the same:

1) nobody uses Factory
2) nobody cares for Factory
* feature freeze comes close
3) rush in unstable packages to catch the next release with the wanted
version * as a Factory user you should skip the next 1 or 2 milestones
because they are horrible 4) Beta1
* a few people in the community fix up some of the bugs (and start to look
at BNC) 5) RC1, better but still not up to where it should be
6) time based release have to go out, "we fix that with an update"

my proposal is - as noted in the Fate entry:

drop Factory
do it tumbleweed style, that is a package goes into release(Tumbleweed)
when its stable and has been tested, if it breaks something -> revert
since Tumbleweed is always stable just release openSuSE $VERSION on time
by copying Tumbleweed into a release repo

doing this the right way would make openSuSE a whole lot more stable IMHO,
and it would also attract more contributors, because getting something in
the hands of actual users could be done as a weekend project, instead of
a multiple month time investment

i could go into more detail, but I'm unwanted here so i try to keep it

I the hope this is being well received and it might improve openSuSE

As the responses to your mail show, exaggeration isn't helping ("nobody
cares for Factory" is simply not true - one could say "not enough people
care for Factory" and that'd be far closer to the truth) and neither is
drama: "I could go into more detail, but I'm unwanted here so I try to keep
it short" - that doesn't make people take you serious, no matter how true it
is that people (including you) are sometimes treated in an absolutely wrong
way here.

To those being less-than-nice - please realize that one cynical comment does
a lot more damage than you think, not only to those you comment at but also
those watching.

To those being treated badly: realize that it's very much a 'German' and a
'openSUSE' thing to be cynical assh*les to each other - it's not personal,
more of an in-joke which became a tad too big. We're actually quite nice,
really - if you don't believe it I suggest you come for a beer at the
openSUSE Conference in Prague in October or at the openSUSE Summit in
Orlando. You might be surprised. I know, Coolo won't hug you out of love and
affection (he's too stiff for that) but when you meet him it turns out he
doesn't carry a scythe and has no horns or red flaming eyes. He's just human
and his cynism is mostly on-line.

Chritoph Obexer
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