Am 14.06.2012 23:31, schrieb Obexer Christoph:
I've seen a few openSuSE releases from the
Factory perspective (being here since the KDE4.0 release) and the failure pattern for
Factory was always the same:
did you use it or are you just reading the flames on this list?
1) nobody uses Factory
I do. On my main work machine, exclusively. I had a fallback partition
with the "latest released" version for emergencies, but after some
incompatible update in Factory (some kde4 update which would have
trashed the shared $HOME if I booted the old one) I never booted it again.
It's now at 11.4 level.
=> Factory *is* rock solid if you remotely know what you are doing.
If, of course, "zypper dup" suggests removing 500 packages and switching
the rest from x86_64 to i586, then my common sense kicks in and I skip
this update until tomorrow.
2) nobody cares for Factory
Not true. Check the commit logs how many packages I fixed for autoconf /
gcc47 / other trivial stuff, which I never use or even have installed on
my system. A "osc pr -q -s F openSUSE:Factory" is something I do daily
and if there are low hanging fruits that are easy to fix (and there
always are) and I have 5 minutes to spare, then I fix them.
So you are actively insulting all people working on Factory -- not a
good strategy if you want to make more people participate :-)
* feature freeze comes close
3) rush in unstable packages to catch the next release with the wanted version
* as a Factory user you should skip the next 1 or 2 milestones because they are horrible
Alternatively, you, as a Factory user, could bug the maintainer of
packages that you use to actually submit earlier. This often works quite
fine. I sometimes send mails like "in devel:project:foo you have already
newer version of bar, how about submitting this to Factory so we can get
testing coverage early" and sometimes the answer is "no, it is really
not yet ready for consumption" but often it is "thanks for the reminder,
that's a good idea, we simply forgot about Factory".
* a few people in the community fix up some of the bugs (and start to look at BNC)
5) RC1, better but still not up to where it should be
6) time based release have to go out, "we fix that with an update"
That's what I also don't like, but then somewhen the thing needs to go
out of the door. I personally don't bother, since I'm using Factory anyway.
my proposal is - as noted in the Fate entry:
do it tumbleweed style, that is a package goes into release(Tumbleweed) when its stable
and has been tested, if it breaks something -> revert
since Tumbleweed is always stable just release openSuSE $VERSION on time by copying
Tumbleweed into a release repo
and never ever update gcc/glibc/perl/whatever again. No.
doing this the right way would make openSuSE a whole
lot more stable IMHO, and it would also attract more contributors,
because getting something in the hands of actual users could be done as a weekend
project, instead of a multiple month time investment
You'd still need a devel project to find out when something is stable
enough to go into your "stable Factory" Tumbleweed.
I, as a developer, would not want to use something as old, outdated and
boring like tumbleweed on my machine.
So if we drop Factory, I'll definitely need to find something else to
install on my box(es, starting after the 12.2 release I will move my
home servers also to Factory as it is less work to keep it working then
to fix up after a "release update").
i could go into more detail, but I'm unwanted
here so i try to keep it short
Everybody is unwanted here. Can you imagine "they" even declined some of
my submit requests? And voted my features down? I probably should also
"Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!"
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