[zypp-devel] Automatic removal of orphan depencencies

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[zypp-devel] Re: [Research] FOSDEM...

Paolo Tuninetto

15 Dec 2008 15 Dec '08

19:52

Hi all, I'm new to this mailing list and also I don know anything about zypp development. I'm also new to openSUSE, so you may think "what the xxxx are you doing here?". I try to explain... IMHO one of the most annoying missing feature in the openSUSE package management (afaik, YaST and zypper) is that once a user installs a package (i.e. in order to test it), the package management automagically checks for missing dependencies and find all libraries that are required but not yet installed and install them. This is cool, The missing feature is that when the user uninstalls the package all the installed dependencies are left there... there is no help in finding where are such orphan packages. First of all... is it true? Is there no way to "cleanup" such dependencies? Something that is doing the work "apt-get autoremove" is doing in Ubuntu Systems. If it is not currently possible... why not make it so? Looking on the net I found the following links: * https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=425890 looks like there is a feature request related to this stuff. I wrote down some ideas on how this feature can be implemented. * http://opensuse.awardspace.com/ where John Thomas started putting down some YaST mockups with some other ideas. Is there someone working on this? May I help in some way? Where can I find documentation on how openSUSE package management works? Ciao, Paolo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

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sda

16 Dec 16 Dec

03:33

On 20:52 Mon 15 Dec , Paolo Tuninetto wrote:

...

Hi all, I'm new to this mailing list and also I don know anything about zypp development. I'm also new to openSUSE, so you may think "what the xxxx are you doing here?".

I try to explain... IMHO one of the most annoying missing feature in the openSUSE package management (afaik, YaST and zypper) is that once a user installs a package (i.e. in order to test it), the package management automagically checks for missing dependencies and find all libraries that are required but not yet installed and install them. This is cool, The missing feature is that when the user uninstalls the package all the installed dependencies are left there... there is no help in finding where are such orphan packages. First of all... is it true? Is there no way to "cleanup" such dependencies? Something that is doing the work "apt-get autoremove" is doing in Ubuntu Systems.

If it is not currently possible... why not make it so?

Looking on the net I found the following links: * https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=425890 looks like there is a feature request related to this stuff. I wrote down some ideas on how this feature can be implemented. * http://opensuse.awardspace.com/ where John Thomas started putting down some YaST mockups with some other ideas.

Is there someone working on this? May I help in some way? Where can I find documentation on how openSUSE package management works?

Ciao, Paolo

hi guys, i'm also noob here, beg your pardon if my words below are useless. A) don't think that we should implement a kind of "apt-get autoremove" because it can raise a lot of more issues to the particular User then benefits B) the idea which is right within the reach is to create the "snapshots" which should contain a simple list of installed packages at the time of the command execution with the possibility to roll-back to the chosen "snapshot" at User's will. it's clear that algorithm could be like this: 1) check names of currently installed packages 2) compare with the names stored in "snapshot" 3) install missing names if any (those that doesn't exist now but were stored in snapshot) 4) rpm -e --nodeps {list of all packages not mentioned in a snapshot} suppose that it's easy to implement and this option could be useful for some of us. also let me point that i don't see any sense to store packages versions or anything other than "names" - updates are on the way and may be such "snapshots" could be useful to transfer/distribute between different openSUSE versions. hope you like the idea :) regards, sda -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Peter Poeml

09:12

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 06:33:14AM +0300, sda wrote:

...

hope you like the idea :)

It seems that this is an idea that users dream of. ;) Quite some time ago (I'd say this year though), the same was discussed on the yum devel list. Could be interesting to read there. From superficial memory, it seemed not easy to solve. Peter -- Contact: admin@opensuse.org (a.k.a. ftpadmin@suse.com) #opensuse-mirrors on freenode.net Info: http://en.opensuse.org/Mirror_Infrastructure SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development

Cristian Morales Vega

12:16

2008/12/16 Peter Poeml :

...

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 06:33:14AM +0300, sda wrote:

...
hope you like the idea :)

It seems that this is an idea that users dream of. ;)

Quite some time ago (I'd say this year though), the same was discussed on the yum devel list. Could be interesting to read there. From superficial memory, it seemed not easy to solve.

There is one from 2005: http://lists.baseurl.org/pipermail/yum/2005-April/017400.html But from this year I only found http://lists.baseurl.org/pipermail/yum/2008-March/021757.html The rollback isn't exactly the same that apt-get's autoremove, but neverless it's something interesting. What happened with rpm --rollback function? http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7034 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Michael Schroeder

13:28

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 01:16:19PM +0100, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...

2008/12/16 Peter Poeml :

...
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 06:33:14AM +0300, sda wrote:

...
hope you like the idea :)

It seems that this is an idea that users dream of. ;)

Quite some time ago (I'd say this year though), the same was discussed on the yum devel list. Could be interesting to read there. From superficial memory, it seemed not easy to solve.

There is one from 2005: http://lists.baseurl.org/pipermail/yum/2005-April/017400.html But from this year I only found http://lists.baseurl.org/pipermail/yum/2008-March/021757.html

The rollback isn't exactly the same that apt-get's autoremove, but neverless it's something interesting. What happened with rpm --rollback function? http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7034

AFAIK rollback code was removed from rpm-4.6 because it was not mature enough and nobody used it. rpm-5 still has it, though. (openSUSE 11.1 comes with rpm-4.4.3.2, so it still supports rollbacks) Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Paolo Tuninetto

13:34

Debian's autoremove is pretty good (I never had problems with it) but IMHO the best way would be the method used by gentoo package management. In gentoo, every application is configured as a list of packages (i.e. main package and list of depencencies [packages but also applications]) and is identified by a name. They use two configuration files: - system: containing the list of applications composing the base system (this file is read only) - world: containing the list of user installed application. when user installs an application the name of the application is written in the world file and all application dependencies are installed. When user removes an application the system removes the main package and all application depencencies (that are not listed as depencencies of other installed applications). Using those two list the gentoo package management tool (emerge) is able to calculate all packages that should be present in the system, and so can do any kind of maintenance on it). I like their idea because is simple. All the complexity goes into the metadata configuration (that has to be very precise). 2008/12/16, Michael Schroeder :

...

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 01:16:19PM +0100, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...
2008/12/16 Peter Poeml :

...
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 06:33:14AM +0300, sda wrote:

...
hope you like the idea :)

It seems that this is an idea that users dream of. ;)

Quite some time ago (I'd say this year though), the same was discussed on the yum devel list. Could be interesting to read there. From superficial memory, it seemed not easy to solve.

There is one from 2005: http://lists.baseurl.org/pipermail/yum/2005-April/017400.html But from this year I only found http://lists.baseurl.org/pipermail/yum/2008-March/021757.html

The rollback isn't exactly the same that apt-get's autoremove, but neverless it's something interesting. What happened with rpm --rollback function? http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7034

AFAIK rollback code was removed from rpm-4.6 because it was not mature enough and nobody used it. rpm-5 still has it, though.

(openSUSE 11.1 comes with rpm-4.4.3.2, so it still supports rollbacks)

Cheers, Michael.

-- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Rajko Matovic

05:34

On Monday 15 December 2008 13:52:49 Paolo Tuninetto wrote:

...

Hi all,

Hi Paolo,

...

The missing feature is that when the user uninstalls the package all the installed dependencies are left there...

Check http://en.opensuse.org/Testing:Features_11.1#Package_history_.28Feature_No:_... is that what you are looking for? See also discussion: http://lists.opensuse.org/yast-devel/2008-06/msg00035.html http://lists.opensuse.org/zypp-devel/2008-06/msg00043.html

...

Looking on the net I found the following links: * https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=425890 looks like there is a feature request related to this stuff. ...

...

May I help in some way?

I'm not developer, but I know that they like people that test features, like the one in above link.

...

Where can I find documentation on how openSUSE package management works?

Look at: http://en.opensuse.org/Yast http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Development/Documentation -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Michael Schroeder

09:50

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 08:52:49PM +0100, Paolo Tuninetto wrote:

...

I try to explain... IMHO one of the most annoying missing feature in the openSUSE package management (afaik, YaST and zypper) is that once a user installs a package (i.e. in order to test it), the package management automagically checks for missing dependencies and find all libraries that are required but not yet installed and install them. This is cool, The missing feature is that when the user uninstalls the package all the installed dependencies are left there... there is no help in finding where are such orphan packages. First of all... is it true? Is there no way to "cleanup" such dependencies? Something that is doing the work "apt-get autoremove" is doing in Ubuntu Systems.

Actually I'm working on something like that, but it didn't make it into 11.1. The idea is to also remove all packages that could have been pulled in by the package in question and couldn't get pulled in by the packages that stay installed. Note though, that you should carefully check the result of this operation so that packages you still need don't get deinstalled. Thus, it's more an YaST thing, I don't know if it can be handled in zypper. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Cristian Morales Vega

12:12

2008/12/16 Michael Schroeder :

...

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 08:52:49PM +0100, Paolo Tuninetto wrote:

...
I try to explain... IMHO one of the most annoying missing feature in the openSUSE package management (afaik, YaST and zypper) is that once a user installs a package (i.e. in order to test it), the package management automagically checks for missing dependencies and find all libraries that are required but not yet installed and install them. This is cool, The missing feature is that when the user uninstalls the package all the installed dependencies are left there... there is no help in finding where are such orphan packages. First of all... is it true? Is there no way to "cleanup" such dependencies? Something that is doing the work "apt-get autoremove" is doing in Ubuntu Systems.

Actually I'm working on something like that, but it didn't make it into 11.1.

The idea is to also remove all packages that could have been pulled in by the package in question and couldn't get pulled in by the packages that stay installed.

Note though, that you should carefully check the result of this operation so that packages you still need don't get deinstalled. Thus, it's more an YaST thing, I don't know if it can be handled in zypper.

Aptitude behavior is explained at http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s02s07.html. It seems sane to me. Is not perfect, perhaps something that was "automatically installed" now is something that you want to mantain. But since you can change the state of any package between automatically and manually installed you can always fix it. But I think right now apt-get, aptitude and deborphan mantain their own, different, database of automatically/manually installed packages (I think I saw a tool to sync them)... so I would argue that this info should be stored at RPM level and not at ZYpp level. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Stanislav Visnovsky

12:31

On Tuesday 16 December 2008 13:12:36 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...

2008/12/16 Michael Schroeder :

...
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 08:52:49PM +0100, Paolo Tuninetto wrote:

...
I try to explain... IMHO one of the most annoying missing feature in the openSUSE package management (afaik, YaST and zypper) is that once a user installs a package (i.e. in order to test it), the package management automagically checks for missing dependencies and find all libraries that are required but not yet installed and install them. This is cool, The missing feature is that when the user uninstalls the package all the installed dependencies are left there... there is no help in finding where are such orphan packages. First of all... is it true? Is there no way to "cleanup" such dependencies? Something that is doing the work "apt-get autoremove" is doing in Ubuntu Systems.

Actually I'm working on something like that, but it didn't make it into 11.1.

The idea is to also remove all packages that could have been pulled in by the package in question and couldn't get pulled in by the packages that stay installed.

Note though, that you should carefully check the result of this operation so that packages you still need don't get deinstalled. Thus, it's more an YaST thing, I don't know if it can be handled in zypper.

Aptitude behavior is explained at http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s02s07.htm l. It seems sane to me. Is not perfect, perhaps something that was "automatically installed" now is something that you want to mantain. But since you can change the state of any package between automatically and manually installed you can always fix it. But I think right now apt-get, aptitude and deborphan mantain their own, different, database of automatically/manually installed packages (I think I saw a tool to sync them)... so I would argue that this info should be stored at RPM level and not at ZYpp level.

RPM does not have solver, so it would just provide a storage for layer above. Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Jan Kupec

13:20

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:

...

On Tuesday 16 December 2008 13:12:36 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...
...
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 08:52:49PM +0100, Paolo Tuninetto wrote:

...
I try to explain... IMHO one of the most annoying missing feature in the openSUSE package management (afaik, YaST and zypper) is that once a user installs a package (i.e. in order to test it), the package management automagically checks for missing dependencies and find all libraries that are required but not yet installed and install them. This is cool, The missing feature is that when the user uninstalls the package all the installed dependencies are left there... there is no help in finding where are such orphan packages. First of all... is it true? Is there no way to "cleanup" such dependencies? Something that is doing the work "apt-get autoremove" is doing in Ubuntu Systems. Actually I'm working on something like that, but it didn't make it into 11.1.

The idea is to also remove all packages that could have been pulled in by the package in question and couldn't get pulled in by the packages that stay installed.

Note though, that you should carefully check the result of this operation so that packages you still need don't get deinstalled. Thus, it's more an YaST thing, I don't know if it can be handled in zypper. Aptitude behavior is explained at http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s02s07.htm l. It seems sane to me. Is not perfect, perhaps something that was "automatically installed" now is something that you want to mantain. But since you can change

2008/12/16 Michael Schroeder : the state of any package between automatically and manually installed you can always fix it. But I think right now apt-get, aptitude and deborphan mantain their own, different, database of automatically/manually installed packages (I think I saw a tool to sync them)... so I would argue that this info should be stored at RPM level and not at ZYpp level.

RPM does not have solver, so it would just provide a storage for layer above.

We have /var/log/zypp/history (http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/Package_History) which stores the info about who installed what. Michael, will you use that file (or do you prefer to have your own format an have somthing to convert from the history file to your format?). We have a fate for that as well, #300758 (and #302862). - -- cheers, jano Ján Kupec YaST team - ---------------------------------------------------------(PGP)--- Key ID: 637EE901 Fingerprint: 93B9 C79B 2D20 51C3 800B E09B 8048 46A6 637E E901 - ---------------------------------------------------------(IRC)--- Server: irc.freenode.net Nick: jniq Channels: #zypp #yast #suse #susecz - ---------------------------------------------------------(EOF)--- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklHqxcACgkQgEhGpmN+6QHFggCfT0is95PDREbxRINzOt19JmJL gwUAnAnDYlshbOydK2E3/f470ke+zVla =DcCa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Michael Schroeder

13:26

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 02:20:24PM +0100, Jan Kupec wrote:

...

We have /var/log/zypp/history (http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/Package_History) which stores the info about who installed what. Michael, will you use that file (or do you prefer to have your own format an have somthing to convert from the history file to your format?).

Currently I don't use any such information at all. And I won't store something like this in the solver, it's up to the library user (i.e. libzypp) to feed the solver with information. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett

17 Dec 17 Dec

10:10

Michael Schroeder wrote:

...

Currently I don't use any such information at all. And I won't store something like this in the solver, it's up to the library user (i.e. libzypp) to feed the solver with information.

Cheers, Michael.

Actually it would be cool if rpm would allow to inject arbitrary metadata when installing a package, so you could save why the package was installed when calling rpm. Then we could read this information in the solv file. Michael, what about another rpm patch? :-) Duncan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Cristian Morales Vega

16 Dec 16 Dec

15:17

2008/12/16 Stanislav Visnovsky :

...

On Tuesday 16 December 2008 13:12:36 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...
2008/12/16 Michael Schroeder :

...
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 08:52:49PM +0100, Paolo Tuninetto wrote:

...
I try to explain... IMHO one of the most annoying missing feature in the openSUSE package management (afaik, YaST and zypper) is that once a user installs a package (i.e. in order to test it), the package management automagically checks for missing dependencies and find all libraries that are required but not yet installed and install them. This is cool, The missing feature is that when the user uninstalls the package all the installed dependencies are left there... there is no help in finding where are such orphan packages. First of all... is it true? Is there no way to "cleanup" such dependencies? Something that is doing the work "apt-get autoremove" is doing in Ubuntu Systems.

Actually I'm working on something like that, but it didn't make it into 11.1.

The idea is to also remove all packages that could have been pulled in by the package in question and couldn't get pulled in by the packages that stay installed.

Note though, that you should carefully check the result of this operation so that packages you still need don't get deinstalled. Thus, it's more an YaST thing, I don't know if it can be handled in zypper.

Aptitude behavior is explained at http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s02s07.htm l. It seems sane to me. Is not perfect, perhaps something that was "automatically installed" now is something that you want to mantain. But since you can change the state of any package between automatically and manually installed you can always fix it. But I think right now apt-get, aptitude and deborphan mantain their own, different, database of automatically/manually installed packages (I think I saw a tool to sync them)... so I would argue that this info should be stored at RPM level and not at ZYpp level.

RPM does not have solver, so it would just provide a storage for layer above.

A *common* storage for a layer above with multiple known implementations that can be used at the same time (I expect some people still mixing Smart and ZYpp usage). What I would hate is Smart, Yum and ZYpp having each one an own copy of the same (but unsynced) data like in the apt-get/aptitude case. I don't really mind how this is archieved, a separate but common database used by all solvers is also ok to me. Since Michael Schroeder said "I won't store something like this in the solver, it's up to the library user (i.e. libzypp) to feed the solver with information." it could even happen that someone creates a new GUI for ZYpp... and so even between different ZYpp interfaces there could be different, redundant, databases of automatically/manually installed packages. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Jan Kupec

18:04

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...

2008/12/16 Stanislav Visnovsky :

...
On Tuesday 16 December 2008 13:12:36 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...
...
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 08:52:49PM +0100, Paolo Tuninetto wrote:

...
I try to explain... IMHO one of the most annoying missing feature in the openSUSE package management (afaik, YaST and zypper) is that once a user installs a package (i.e. in order to test it), the package management automagically checks for missing dependencies and find all libraries that are required but not yet installed and install them. This is cool, The missing feature is that when the user uninstalls the package all the installed dependencies are left there... there is no help in finding where are such orphan packages. First of all... is it true? Is there no way to "cleanup" such dependencies? Something that is doing the work "apt-get autoremove" is doing in Ubuntu Systems. Actually I'm working on something like that, but it didn't make it into 11.1.

The idea is to also remove all packages that could have been pulled in by the package in question and couldn't get pulled in by the packages that stay installed.

Note though, that you should carefully check the result of this operation so that packages you still need don't get deinstalled. Thus, it's more an YaST thing, I don't know if it can be handled in zypper. Aptitude behavior is explained at http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s02s07.htm l. It seems sane to me. Is not perfect, perhaps something that was "automatically installed" now is something that you want to mantain. But since you can change

2008/12/16 Michael Schroeder : the state of any package between automatically and manually installed you can always fix it. But I think right now apt-get, aptitude and deborphan mantain their own, different, database of automatically/manually installed packages (I think I saw a tool to sync them)... so I would argue that this info should be stored at RPM level and not at ZYpp level. RPM does not have solver, so it would just provide a storage for layer above.

A *common* storage for a layer above with multiple known implementations that can be used at the same time (I expect some people still mixing Smart and ZYpp usage). What I would hate is Smart, Yum and ZYpp having each one an own copy of the same (but unsynced) data like in the apt-get/aptitude case.

Well yes. This is an issue. Current approach in libzypp is to treat whatever was installed by non-zypp tools as installed/requested by user, not solver. It would indeed be nice to standardize this logging across different package managers. It would mean another change of the history log in libzypp, but i guess we (and the current users of that log) can live with it.

...

don't really mind how this is archieved, a separate but common database used by all solvers is also ok to me.

Since Michael Schroeder said "I won't store something like this in the solver, it's up to the library user (i.e. libzypp) to feed the solver with information."

So far, so good.

...

it could even happen that someone creates a new GUI for ZYpp... and so even between different ZYpp interfaces there could be different, redundant, databases of automatically/manually installed packages.

Why do you think? No, this won't happen. Zypp-based tools will always have the same info. - -- cheers, jano Ján Kupec YaST team - ---------------------------------------------------------(PGP)--- Key ID: 637EE901 Fingerprint: 93B9 C79B 2D20 51C3 800B E09B 8048 46A6 637E E901 - ---------------------------------------------------------(IRC)--- Server: irc.freenode.net Nick: jniq Channels: #zypp #yast #suse #susecz - ---------------------------------------------------------(EOF)--- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklH7aEACgkQgEhGpmN+6QHX5QCgiGu2udkCPivBKeVO1519MSR8 Dj4AnRh55/47JO8aqJAvS6bFK2Hs4M53 =stbu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Cristian Morales Vega

19:35

2008/12/16 Jan Kupec :

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...
2008/12/16 Stanislav Visnovsky :

...
On Tuesday 16 December 2008 13:12:36 Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...
...
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 08:52:49PM +0100, Paolo Tuninetto wrote:

...
I try to explain... IMHO one of the most annoying missing feature in the openSUSE package management (afaik, YaST and zypper) is that once a user installs a package (i.e. in order to test it), the package management automagically checks for missing dependencies and find all libraries that are required but not yet installed and install them. This is cool, The missing feature is that when the user uninstalls the package all the installed dependencies are left there... there is no help in finding where are such orphan packages. First of all... is it true? Is there no way to "cleanup" such dependencies? Something that is doing the work "apt-get autoremove" is doing in Ubuntu Systems. Actually I'm working on something like that, but it didn't make it into 11.1.

The idea is to also remove all packages that could have been pulled in by the package in question and couldn't get pulled in by the packages that stay installed.

Note though, that you should carefully check the result of this operation so that packages you still need don't get deinstalled. Thus, it's more an YaST thing, I don't know if it can be handled in zypper. Aptitude behavior is explained at http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/projects/aptitude/doc/en/ch02s02s07.htm l. It seems sane to me. Is not perfect, perhaps something that was "automatically installed" now is something that you want to mantain. But since you can change

2008/12/16 Michael Schroeder : the state of any package between automatically and manually installed you can always fix it. But I think right now apt-get, aptitude and deborphan mantain their own, different, database of automatically/manually installed packages (I think I saw a tool to sync them)... so I would argue that this info should be stored at RPM level and not at ZYpp level. RPM does not have solver, so it would just provide a storage for layer above.

A *common* storage for a layer above with multiple known implementations that can be used at the same time (I expect some people still mixing Smart and ZYpp usage). What I would hate is Smart, Yum and ZYpp having each one an own copy of the same (but unsynced) data like in the apt-get/aptitude case.

Well yes. This is an issue. Current approach in libzypp is to treat whatever was installed by non-zypp tools as installed/requested by user, not solver.

It would indeed be nice to standardize this logging across different package managers. It would mean another change of the history log in libzypp, but i guess we (and the current users of that log) can live with it.

...
don't really mind how this is archieved, a separate but common database used by all solvers is also ok to me.

Since Michael Schroeder said "I won't store something like this in the solver, it's up to the library user (i.e. libzypp) to feed the solver with information."

So far, so good.

...
it could even happen that someone creates a new GUI for ZYpp... and so even between different ZYpp interfaces there could be different, redundant, databases of automatically/manually installed packages.

Why do you think? No, this won't happen. Zypp-based tools will always have the same info.

Just because of my bad english ;-) The "library" from "library user" is libsatsolver and not libzypp, I suppose. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett

17 Dec 17 Dec

10:10

Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...

A *common* storage for a layer above with multiple known implementations that can be used at the same time (I expect some people still mixing Smart and ZYpp usage).

Why not below? ZYpp and smart have already rpm in common. Duncan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

Paolo Tuninetto

13:57

I do agree... ZYpp, Smart, and others should share the same common storage. Can rpm itself be THE storage? Paolo 2008/12/17, Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett :

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Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...
A *common* storage for a layer above with multiple known implementations that can be used at the same time (I expect some people still mixing Smart and ZYpp usage).

Why not below? ZYpp and smart have already rpm in common.

Duncan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: zypp-devel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: zypp-devel+help@opensuse.org

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participants (9)

Cristian Morales Vega
Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett
Jan Kupec
Michael Schroeder
Paolo Tuninetto
Peter Poeml
Rajko Matovic
sda
Stanislav Visnovsky