Hey, Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

2009/11/4 Petr Uzel :

...

One of the topics we discussed at the IRC meeting on Friday was Wikipedia-like Portals. Here I'd like to summarize how we could make use of it and what steps are needed.

the"Main Portal" needs to be consistent with the Portal approach you work on for "deeper" hierarchies of openSUSE documentation

[...]

We urgently need to sync the efforts Shayon is currently working on (http://en.opensuse.org/Portal_New) for the "Main Portal" with the progress you make - from my perspective these are heavily related - I mean, the "Main Portal" is so to speak the parent of all the others, isn't it?

We talk about two different things here. Structure and Layout. You can't have one through the other. You have to have both to make a good wiki. For instance no matter how well you layout the new portal page you will never get a better structure through that layout than: "We stuff everything into portals". So you will end up with a messy wiki. Or if you structure everything nicely but that structure is not visible on the pages through templates, navboxes or even categories then you will also end up with a messy wiki. Its the combination of both that makes for nice wikis. You have to have a structure that works and is easily expandable and you have to have a layout that is supporting that structure and is easily usable. So far we only worked on one or the other. I think it's time that we start combining both. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

Petr,

thanks for this awesome write-up!

2009/11/4 Petr Uzel :

...

Hello,

One of the topics we discussed at the IRC meeting on Friday was Wikipedia-like Portals. Here I'd like to summarize how we could make use of it and what steps are needed.

Overview ========

Henne Vogelsang came up [1] with the idea of adopting Portals from Wikipedia to openSUSE wiki.

The main goal of portals is to nicely present related stuff and give overview about one topic, which means something like an entry page to one part of the wiki. I can imagine e.g. KDE, GNOME, YaST, OBS, Developers, Packaging, Education, Medical and other Portals.

Wikipedia uses prepared skeletons and templates which makes creating of new portals quite easy, especially with help of some guidelines [2,3].

Some examples of Wikipedia's portals: [4,5]

How are the Portals created ===========================

Let's take a look how new Portals are created in Wikipedia. You start by creating new page into which you 'substitute' predefined skeleton [7], which defines several sections that will appear on the Portal page.

Portals on Wikipedia consist of several sections. Different portals use different layouts and sections. Here's the list of common sections used in Wikipedia:

- Browserbar - navigation bar with links to top-level portals - Intro - some introduction to the portal, what is it about - Selected article - Did you know? - list of some short facts - Picture of the month - Categories - WikiProject - Things to do - Topics - Index of articles - Related portals - News - ....

Some of the sections are same for all portals, like Browserbar or Selected article (which, if I understand correctly, use some magic to select random article belonging to the topic). These are implemented using templates. We should think about which sections would be useful in our wiki.

Other sections, like Topics or Related portals are unique across the portals, which means they are created manually for each portal.

The templates Wikipedia uses for creating portals require ParserFunctions extension [6], which in turn requires MediaWiki 1.7.0 or above. Currently, our wiki runs on MediaWiki 1.5.8, so it seems it is not possible to deploy that before upgrade to new MediaWiki is done (which, if I'm not mistaken, should happen soon after 11.2).

On the other hand, we will not probably need all the templates Wikipedia uses, so there's a chance that the ParserFunctions extensions won't be necessary.

What to do ==========

Here are the tasks we need to do if we decide to adopt the Portals to openSUSE wiki:

1) Identify which sections/templates would be useful in openSUSE wiki --------------------------------------------------------------------- Let's go through some Wikipedia portals and think about the sections they use. I don't think we need 'Did you know?', 'Selected article' or 'Picture of the month' sections. On the other hand, there might be other sections useful for our wiki, like 'List of Howtos' or 'Application of the month'.

2) Design how default openSUSE Portal should look like ------------------------------------------------------ Which sections should the default Portal contain and what should be the layout? Since the Portals can be customized, this does not mean designing universal portal layout, just something from which it is easy to start with new portal.

3) Port needed templates from Wikipedia --------------------------------------- The big question here is what wiki instance should we use for development. I see three options: - setup testing wiki instance with ParserFunctions extension somewhere - wait until openSUSE wiki is upgraded - try how that would work with current wiki (that would answer the question whether ParserFunctions extension is actually needed :) ).

4) Adopt Portal creation guidelines from Wikipedia --------------------------------------------------

This one should be easy :)

So, what do you think?

Awesome stuff. Well thought out and presented.

...

Does this all make sense?

Perfect sense, yes!

...

What did I miss?

Not that you missed something but I'd like to raise the attention on this one: Initially my very own Usability concept-proposal included a "Main Portal" as a replacement of the current en.opensuse.org - the idea to come up with several "sub"Portals (awesome idea) has been introduced later on by yourself and Federico Mena. That said, the "Main Portal" needs to be consistent with the Portal approach you work on for "deeper" hierarchies of openSUSE documentation, like e.g. KDE, GNOME, Education, Medical, YaST, OBS, Packaging, etc. etc. We urgently need to sync the efforts Shayon is currently working on (http://en.opensuse.org/Portal_New) for the "Main Portal" with the progress you make - from my perspective these are heavily related - I mean, the "Main Portal" is so to speak the parent of all the others, isn't it? What about "just" listing the "sub"Portals there, while providing information about the Wiki-Team, our new mentoring Program, our new Guidelines and contact/support information there. Then replacing en.opensuse.org with the "Main Portal" as an entry page to the (then) Portal-structured wiki below (from a hierarchy perspective). May you sync with Shayon here and join forces please? - imho we urgently need to make this one single AI to ensure consistency and openSUSE world domination ;-)

Thanks, Rupert

...

[1] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-boosters/2009-10/msg00004.html [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Portal/Guidelines [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Portal/Instructions [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Linux [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Mathematics [6] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Box_portal_skeleton

-- Best regards / s pozdravem

Petr Uzel, openSUSE Boosters Team ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: puzel@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 http://www.suse.cz 190 00 Prague 9, CR

Hello, Well after reading all the concerned things regarding portal and also as Rupert said need to make this one single AI to ensure consistency and openSUSE world domination ;-) .I feel that a small kinda meeting should be arranged for this reason, inviting all the related/concerned people.And then we have a neat talk on it. :) Sounds good? Best, Shayon -- openSUSE Wiki Team Member http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Website: http://www.shay0n.hpage.com Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: wwarl0ck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Petr Uzel wrote:

On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 08:19:21PM +0530, Shayon wrote:

...

Hello, Well after reading all the concerned things regarding portal and also as Rupert said

need to make this one single AI to ensure consistency and openSUSE world domination ;-)

.I feel that a small kinda meeting should be arranged for this reason, inviting all the related/concerned people.And then we have a neat talk on it. :)

Sounds good?

Yes, definitely.

But this time, please not on Friday evening ;)

Sure.I am ok with any dates!.As this meeting would help in solving out all the messes which hav been created to solve out the WIKI MESS :). Best, Shayon -- openSUSE Wiki Team Member http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Website: http://www.shay0n.hpage.com Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: wwarl0ck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

Petr, Federico Mena, Shayon,

what about that one: you three (assignees) find a valid date for a meeting about this specific topic (wiki-projects/portals) and meet if you feel this sufficient and provide the team minutes afterwards - just a proposal. That said, I'd appreciate an invitation to the Meeting (I'd like to follow this discussion if you feel this appropriate)

Thanks, R

2009/11/4 Shayon :

...

Petr Uzel wrote:

...

On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 08:19:21PM +0530, Shayon wrote:

...

Hello, Well after reading all the concerned things regarding portal and also as Rupert said

need to make this one single AI to ensure consistency and openSUSE world domination ;-)

.I feel that a small kinda meeting should be arranged for this reason, inviting all the related/concerned people.And then we have a neat talk on it. :)

Sounds good?

Yes, definitely.

But this time, please not on Friday evening ;)

Sure.I am ok with any dates!.As this meeting would help in solving out all the messes which hav been created to solve out the WIKI MESS :).

Best, Shayon

-- openSUSE Wiki Team Member http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Website: http://www.shay0n.hpage.com Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: wwarl0ck

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Rupert +1.You can also join accompanied by Rajko.I am perfectly ok with it- AFAIK Petr will be too .I dont know about Federico :) Best, Shayon -- openSUSE Wiki Team Member http://en.opensuse.org/User:Wwarlock Website: http://www.shay0n.hpage.com Email: hkwarlock@gmail.com Twitter: wwarl0ck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-wiki+help@opensuse.org

Hello, Rupert, thanks for your comments! On Wed, Nov 04, 2009 at 02:05:09PM +0100, Rupert Horstkötter wrote:

...

What did I miss?

Not that you missed something but I'd like to raise the attention on this one: Initially my very own Usability concept-proposal included a "Main Portal" as a replacement of the current en.opensuse.org - the idea to come up with several "sub"Portals (awesome idea) has been introduced later on by yourself and Federico Mena. That said, the "Main Portal" needs to be consistent with the Portal approach you work on for "deeper" hierarchies of openSUSE documentation, like e.g. KDE, GNOME, Education, Medical, YaST, OBS, Packaging, etc. etc. We urgently need to sync the efforts Shayon is currently working on (http://en.opensuse.org/Portal_New) for the "Main Portal" with the progress you make - from my perspective these are heavily related - I mean, the "Main Portal" is so to speak the parent of all the others, isn't it?

I don't think it necessarily has to be this way. If you look at en.wikipedia.org (which corresponds to Portal_New in our wiki), there are no links to sub portals except the horizontal bar at the top of the page. I think the openSUSE wiki entry page (I will call it Portal_New for short) could look similar - at the top, there could be a bar with links to existing portals, and below, it could look like now, which is links to individual Categories. The whole portal thing has to parts: 1) Implementing templates/skeletons/... so that portals can be created 2) Actually creating portals Therefore, I don't expect everything will transform into portals quickly. E.g. the wiki-team could help the KDE team with creating their portal, but only if KDE team want's to create it. It might later show up that some new portal, which nobody could now think of, should be created. What I want to say (I know, in a complicated way - sorry), is that IMHO we can't/shouldn't make an exact plan about which portals will be in the wiki, so it not possible to design Portal_New accordingly. OTOH, the categories are there for a long time (stable), so why not building the Portal_New around categories instead of portals? Of course, if later someone creates new portal for some category (which is desired), the link on Portal_New will be changed from (Category:KDE to Portal:KDE).

What about "just" listing the "sub"Portals there, while providing information about the Wiki-Team, our new mentoring Program, our new Guidelines and contact/support information there.

As I wrote, this way we would need a lot of Portals to be ready beforehand, which is IMHO not feasible.

Then replacing en.opensuse.org with the "Main Portal" as an entry page to the (then) Portal-structured wiki below (from a hierarchy perspective). May you sync with Shayon here and join forces please? - imho we urgently need to make this one single AI to ensure consistency and openSUSE world domination ;-)

Thanks, Rupert

-- Best regards / s pozdravem Petr Uzel, openSUSE Boosters Team ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: puzel@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 http://www.suse.cz 190 00 Prague 9, CR