Re: [opensuse-usability] network mockups once again
Hi Francis, thanks for your feedback :-)
* How exactly will the profiles work? I can see the usecase for when you switch between locations and don't want to enter the same things, but will a profile be compulsory to get things working?
In my opinion it will. Apple is successful with this concept, so why won`t we be? :-) It shares two adavantages: * people don`t need a lot of experience to get their tasks done * nonetheless, we give the user the possibility to configure this profile according to his needs as well
* I'm not sure that it's instantly clear in http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/f/f6/Nw_settings_devices.png that the 'Configure Network Card Device' button configures the currently-selected item (since there is other options and text in between it and the selection area).
It has worked fine until now and it is used in other modules (e.g. sound cards or printer). But, I agree with you, that doesn`t necessarily mean that it is the best way :-) I played around with some possibilities: * have the "Configure Network Card" under the list: this makes it difficult for the user to locate the button as it is somewhat hidden between the two boxes. * having the "Configure Network Card" separated from the info box might mislead the user that "configure profile" will give him access to edit the interface name or the activation of the network card. If you have any other ideas or thoughts, just let me know :-)
I see part of the problem though: the configure profile button needs to go below the profile selection part, and having one button above the text and one below is messy. Hmm.
Right :-)
On a more minor issue -- overuse of borders? There are dangers with it; hm, Jimmac had a nice link somewhere I believe.
Can anyone just pass it to me? Would be nice :-) Enjoy, Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-usability+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-usability+help@opensuse.org
Hi! Dne úterý 24 duben 2007 01:48 Martin Schmidkunz napsal(a):
Hi Francis,
thanks for your feedback :-)
* How exactly will the profiles work? I can see the usecase for when you switch between locations and don't want to enter the same things, but will a profile be compulsory to get things working?
In my opinion it will. Apple is successful with this concept, so why won`t we be? :-) It shares two adavantages: * people don`t need a lot of experience to get their tasks done * nonetheless, we give the user the possibility to configure this profile according to his needs as well
For laptops (or computeres moving along networks) we already do have a solution - NetworkManager. Well, it has the limitation that it has to use DHCP (which is IMO no limitation for 99% of users), but it works without any interaction from the user (I can even connect my laptop to a network I never connected it to before without having to configure anything as root). For advanced users we also have a solution already in place - SCPM. And not only does it support different network configuration, but you can change configuration of other stuff as well (eg. mount different NFS shares depending on the profile). I don't see the need to implement 3rd solution for this problem - the current ones are IMO sufficient. If there are usability issues with SCPM, we should probably concentrate on fixing them instead of delivering one more solution. Jiri -- Regards, Jiri Srain YaST Team Leader --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: jsrain@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 959 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz
Jiri Srain wrote / napísal(a):
Hi!
Dne úterý 24 duben 2007 01:48 Martin Schmidkunz napsal(a):
Hi Francis,
thanks for your feedback :-)
* How exactly will the profiles work? I can see the usecase for when you switch between locations and don't want to enter the same things, but will a profile be compulsory to get things working?
In my opinion it will. Apple is successful with this concept, so why won`t we be? :-) It shares two adavantages: * people don`t need a lot of experience to get their tasks done * nonetheless, we give the user the possibility to configure this profile according to his needs as well
For laptops (or computeres moving along networks) we already do have a solution - NetworkManager. Well, it has the limitation that it has to use DHCP (which is IMO no limitation for 99% of users), but it works without any interaction from the user (I can even connect my laptop to a network I never connected it to before without having to configure anything as root).
For advanced users we also have a solution already in place - SCPM. And not only does it support different network configuration, but you can change configuration of other stuff as well (eg. mount different NFS shares depending on the profile).
I don't see the need to implement 3rd solution for this problem - the current ones are IMO sufficient. If there are usability issues with SCPM, we should probably concentrate on fixing them instead of delivering one more solution.
Jiri
IMO Martin suggested to use YaST as SCPM frontend (there is no one as I know) for creating/editing profiles. Michal -- Best Regards, Michal Zugec Software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SuSE CR, s.r.o. e-mail: mzugec@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 296 542 374 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-usability+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-usability+help@opensuse.org
IMO Martin suggested to use YaST as SCPM frontend (there is no one as I know) for creating/editing profiles.
Right :-) I think it would be great to think about that for the release after 10.3. What do you think? Maybe we can think of something like having one tool for profiles than two different ones. Enjoy, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-usability+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-usability+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schmidkunz wrote / napísal(a):
IMO Martin suggested to use YaST as SCPM frontend (there is no one as I know) for creating/editing profiles.
Right :-) I think it would be great to think about that for the release after 10.3. What do you think? Maybe we can think of something like having one tool for profiles than two different ones.
Enjoy,
Martin
We already have pckages scpm, kscpm/gscpm, sumf. (daemon and user-applet for profile switching) What we can do is propose for laptop users (laptop pattern selected) to start daemon and applet (similar as NetworkManager and KNetworkManager) Michal -- Best Regards, Michal Zugec Software developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SuSE CR, s.r.o. e-mail: mzugec@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 296 542 374 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-usability+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-usability+help@opensuse.org
Hi Martin,
On 4/24/07, Martin Schmidkunz
* How exactly will the profiles work? I can see the usecase for when you switch between locations and don't want to enter the same things, but will a profile be compulsory to get things working?
In my opinion it will. Apple is successful with this concept, so why won`t we be? :-) It shares two adavantages: * people don`t need a lot of experience to get their tasks done * nonetheless, we give the user the possibility to configure this profile according to his needs as well
That's very true; thanks for explaining.
* I'm not sure that it's instantly clear in http://files.opensuse.org/opensuse/en/f/f6/Nw_settings_devices.png that the 'Configure Network Card Device' button configures the currently-selected item (since there is other options and text in between it and the selection area).
It has worked fine until now and it is used in other modules (e.g. sound cards or printer). But, I agree with you, that doesn`t necessarily mean that it is the best way :-) I played around with some possibilities: * have the "Configure Network Card" under the list: this makes it difficult for the user to locate the button as it is somewhat hidden between the two boxes. * having the "Configure Network Card" separated from the info box might mislead the user that "configure profile" will give him access to edit the interface name or the activation of the network card.
If you have any other ideas or thoughts, just let me know :-)
Yeah, this one is tricky 8). I'll think about it a little more today.
On a more minor issue -- overuse of borders? There are dangers with it; hm, Jimmac had a nice link somewhere I believe.
Can anyone just pass it to me? Would be nice :-)
Found it: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-wiki/2007-04/msg00006.html Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros Web: http://francis.giannaros.org IRC: apokryphos on irc.freenode.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-usability+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-usability+help@opensuse.org
Hi Francis,
That's very true; thanks for explaining.
You're welcome :-)
Found it: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-wiki/2007-04/msg00006.html
Thanks! Enjoy, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-usability+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-usability+help@opensuse.org
Hello, On Apr 24 12:11 Martin Schmidkunz wrote (shortened):
Hi Francis, ...
Found it: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-wiki/2007-04/msg00006.html
The mail leads to http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/controls-frames.html I think such stuff should be hidden from the setup module programmer. At least I don't even want to know about such kind of design (i.e. "look and feel") details when making a YaST setup module. I just want to tell the underlying UI/widget system the structure of the entries and then it should make this structure in whatever kind of look and feel design visible fot the user. If I remember correctly, the current YaST UI allows and requires to specify `Frame if I need something in the structure which is equivalent of having a "frame-like-structure". But actually I do not want a border-line drawn on the screen. I only want to tell the underlying UI/widget system that some elements should be grouped and that a group may be nested at a particular elemet of some other group. The grouping-structure should somehow be made visible for the user but I don't want to care at all if the UI shows border-lines or spacing and indentation or different background colors or whatever else to separare each group and to show which group is nested where in which other group. This idea even more generalized: Strictly speaking I even do not want to care if different screens are used or tabs or pop-up windows to separate different things. I only want to specify if the content of a sub-group should be shown "in-place" or not - i.e. if the content of a sub-group should be shown where its parent-group is or if there should be only a reference to the content (e.g. a button, a tab, a URL, a link, whatever the look and feel design likes). Depending on what the content is, the underlying UI/widget system may decide on its own (based upon its built-in look and feel rules) how to show the content to the user. E.g.: - if the content is big complex stuff, a separated new screen may be best - if the content is a list of only a few small entries, it may be best to show it "in-place" where its parent-group is - if the content is only a text message, a pop-up message box (with whatever control elemet to close it) may be best I am no usability expert. I don't know if it could work at all this way. Perhaps the setup module programmer must care in any case about the look and feel details but I hope he must not. Perhaps it could work in most cases as I described above and only for special cases the setup module programmer can optionally specify the look and feel details (e.g. force the UI/widget system to show the content of a sub-group "in-place" where its parent-group is with a red blinking border-frame-line around it). Kind Regards Johannes Meixner -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstrasse 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany AG Nuernberg, HRB 16746, GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-usability+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-usability+help@opensuse.org
Hi, /me is just applausing :-) I fully agree with you Johannes :-) Thanks, Martin -- Martin Schmidkunz User Experience Specialist martin.schmidkunz@novell.com +49 (0) 911 740 53-346 ------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ------------------------------------- Novell, Inc. SUSE® Linux Enterprise 10 Your Linux is ready http://www.novell.com/linux -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-usability+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-usability+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Francis Giannaros -
Jiri Srain -
Johannes Meixner -
Martin Schmidkunz -
Martin Schmidkunz -
Michal Zugec