* Roger Oberholtzer [12-08-09 11:50]:

Can I do this with zypper? I looked for the word 'taboo' in the man page, and did not see it. I recall hearing about doing this. But I have never had the need, until now...

in zypper this is called locks. zypper help al -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:11 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

On 12/8/2009 9:43 AM, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Roger Oberholtzer [12-08-09 11:50]:

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Can I do this with zypper? I looked for the word 'taboo' in the man page, and did not see it. I recall hearing about doing this. But I have never had the need, until now...

in zypper this is called locks. zypper help al

Or just use yast.

Really, I don't understand this infatuation with relearning the command line of the underlying utility that Yast uses, since the underlying tools have changed twice in the time I've been using yast.

I had been using yast for all these things. However, when I discovered that yast is not updating everything zypper does, I decided to see about using zypper more. There were over more than 200 packages that yast did not pick up, but zypper did. In Yast, in Software Maintenance -> View -> Package Groups, I select All Packages. Then I select Package -> All In This Group -> Update If Newer Version Available. In past releases, I think this was getting all updates. Seems less thorough than zypper dup. -- You can't just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they'll want something new. -- Steve Jobs Roger Oberholtzer Ramböll RST/OPQ Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 11:19 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

On 12/8/2009 10:34 AM, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

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In Yast, in Software Maintenance -> View -> Package Groups, I select All Packages. Then I select Package -> All In This Group -> Update If Newer Version Available. In past releases, I think this was getting all updates. Seems less thorough than zypper dup.

I use this same method, and it seems to find all the updates.

The only time it doesn't "find" them is if it would change the source of a package, such as if you decide to upgrade to kde 4.3.4 and have to use one of the newer (potentially less stable) repositories.

Once you select the option "Switch system packages to the version in this repository" it will find these updates reliably across multiple repositories.

Perhaps this is it. Many of the packages were being replaced by things in repositories other than the original or the update one. I am guessing this flag is new behavior in 11.2?

Still its a LONG way from being as friendly or fast as Synaptic on Ubuntu.

But it sure beats the rpm dependency hell of not so very long ago! I suspect it is not so much that Ubuntu's tool is so much better as it is that Ubuntu compile so many things that finding a package for Ubuntu is easier, making any package manager's job easier. After all, you have to have the package before you can manage it. This is why I am starting to get familiar with OBS. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 11:02 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

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On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 11:19 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

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On 12/8/2009 10:34 AM, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

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In Yast, in Software Maintenance -> View -> Package Groups, I select All Packages. Then I select Package -> All In This Group -> Update If Newer Version Available. In past releases, I think this was getting all updates. Seems less thorough than zypper dup.

Yast -> Online Update -> Packages -> Update if newer version available

nearly always gets me several packages (I do it a couple of times a week). Just now I did it, and have 18 packages in the list (I did it two days ago adn got half a dozen, but did it again just now to make sure I was giving the right menu path).

I almost never get any change in the update icon except the red security notice. The very rare orange star just gets a couple of things.

After doing that, what do you get for: zypper dup Don't worry. It won't actually do anything unless you say yes. Depending on your repositories, you may get lots more here. I see the new setting about saying that system files can be updated from a repository. However, you have to select it for each repository each time you update with YaST. I get the security this offers. Unfortunately, this cannot be set permanently for any repository. The command line is easier. Even if it means the updates could do something I may not like. I do try to stay with ones I know. So, I guess I don't really practice safe repository in the strictest sense... -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 22:03 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

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On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 11:02 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

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Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

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On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 11:19 -0800, John Andersen wrote:

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On 12/8/2009 10:34 AM, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

...

In Yast, in Software Maintenance -> View -> Package Groups, I select All Packages. Then I select Package -> All In This Group -> Update If Newer Version Available. In past releases, I think this was getting all updates. Seems less thorough than zypper dup. Yast -> Online Update -> Packages -> Update if newer version available ...

After doing that, what do you get for: zypper dup

Ok, so I did the online update, got 7 vlc-related packages. Tried again, got no packages.

# zypper dup

Wow!

It started off with "... will be upgraded ... " The only one I'd seen before was NetworkManager-kde4-lang. zypper added libwavpack1, octave.

I've been getting the NetworkManager-kde4-lang for a week or so now with online update, but I'd been refusing it because it downgraded almost all the rest of kde to 4.1. (165 packages). As far as I know, I have no use for NetworkManager-kde4-lang, and I didn't want to downgrade, so I rejected it. I figured whatever was causing the anomaly would eventually clear up.

Then a list of 2 dozen or so new packages (why?).

Then a list of 2 dozen or so packages to be "reinstalled" (huh?).

Then a list of 2 dozen or so packages to be "removed". Among them are konqueror, dolphin, kate, konsole, kget, all of which I use heavily. Huh?

Then a list of half a dozen packages to "change architecture", among them NetworkManager-kde4-lang.

Finally, a couple of hundred to change vendor, none of them among those to be removed, as far as I can see.

Overall download size: 233.7 M. After the operation, 110.1 M will be freed.

This seems incredible, so I said "no". Can anyone tell me what the heck zypper is trying to do to my system?

It is trying to update things. It seems that, when you add a repository that updates something already installed, the vendor for this new repository will be different. Yast, by default, does not install updates when the vendor changes. They are there, but they will not be used. zypper, however, uses the repositories you have enabled. It seems that you can get the same behavior in Yast if, in Software Management, choose View -> Repositories. Then, on the left are your repositories. When you click on one, you will see, on the right, some text that says "Switch system packages to the versions in this repository XXX". Click on the underlined blue text. This enables the repository. If you do this for all your repositories, Yast will actually use them. I think you only need to do this once, because that will cause the update, and the vendor change. Then, when that repo has updates to packages that were installed using this method, they will be used without this step because the vendor change was already done. Of course, if different packages in the repo later change, you will need to repeat this step so those get installed. e.g., a repo has packageA1 and packageA2 that work together. One day you set the Switch flag, and there is an update to packageA1. Then, later, packageA2 gets updated. The intention is that you should have both of these updates. Unless you set the Switch flag, packageA2 will never get updated. I really think there is a setting that is missing. Once you have selected to get some packages from a repo that has a vendor change, then you pretty much have to keep selecting the switch thing (above) or you may only get some packages from the repo. This seems a bad thing. I would have thought that the 'enabled' flag should have been enough. Why on earth would I enable a repo, and then the system not use it unless, each time, I set the Switch flag for it? I understand that there can be a vendor change. But, having enabled the repo, I think I have decided that a vendor change is ok. So, the 'enabled' check box for the repo is not totally accurate. zypper dup removes one from this odd new thing in 11.2. You get all the updates in the repos you have enabled. Which, IMHO, is what I would think anyone wanted. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 05:33 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

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On Thu, 2009-12-10 at 22:03 -0500, John E. Perry wrote:

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This seems incredible, so I said "no". Can anyone tell me what the heck zypper is trying to do to my system?

It is trying to update things. ... zypper dup removes one from this odd new thing in 11.2. You get all the updates in the repos you have enabled. Which, IMHO, is what I would think anyone wanted.

Yes, it seems obvious -- except that zypper appears to want to set me back to kde 4.1. I'm at 4.3.1 now, and am thinking about going at least to 4.3.4.

If zypper had said anything about then upgrading me again, and if it had not implied that I'd lose all those applications, I wouldn't hesitate. I can't believe that's what it really wants to do, but...

I am using 4.3.4 (KDE 4.3.4) "release 2" via zypper. It must depend on your KDE repositories. I have: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/43/openSUSE_11.2 And that seems to work. Bit of an aside here: I still think the KDE repository naming method borders on the insane. As in: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Community/openSUSE_11.2... It is inconsistent where in the repo name the '43' finds itself. Yes, I know each repo has a life of it's own. With different developers, and different rules. But the repo naming strategy is odd. No flames wanted. I am sure there is a system. Unfortunately, everyone seems to have their own. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

...

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On 12/11/2009 at 12:40, Lars Müller wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 05:33:28AM -0500, John E. Perry wrote: [ 8< ] Yes, it seems obvious -- except that zypper appears to want to set me back to kde 4.1. I'm at 4.3.1 now, and am thinking about going at least to 4.3.4.

zypper patch, up or dup?

"zypper patch" is what YaST Online Update does.

"zypper up" is a bit more but _without_ vendor changes.

While "zypper dup" even includes vendor chnages.

I'm not sure if this is 100% correct. But man zypper on a 11.2 system explains the details. Feel free to correct me!

A zypper dup might even suggest to install "older" = lower versions of a package. IIRC here it relies on the the build time of a packages. The intention is to bring the system to a consistent state.

I think the fact with 'downgrading' a package comes from the repo priorities that are defined. Build time should never have been an argument. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:40:41PM +0100, Lars Müller wrote:

"zypper patch" is what YaST Online Update does.

zypper patch satisifes all relevant patches, where a patch says something like "package foo must have at least version bar".

"zypper up" is a bit more but _without_ vendor changes.

While "zypper dup" even includes vendor chnages.

'zypper dup' pretty much ignores all data of the installed packages, so it is free to do vendor/arch changes or even downgrades.

I'm not sure if this is 100% correct. But man zypper on a 11.2 system explains the details. Feel free to correct me!

A zypper dup might even suggest to install "older" = lower versions of a package. IIRC here it relies on the the build time of a packages.

libzypp doesn't compare the build time. It just looks at repo priorities and the version/release to select the best package. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org