Re: [opensuse] list cops blaming top posts
Eberhard, and others: I view the list's messages individually in kmail, not as a newsgroup and not with a threaded view. It matters not to me if someone top posts, bottom posts or inserts comments in the included text. In fairness to those who make the "mistake" of top posting, many email clients (especially the free ones, like Yahoo mail) put you at the top of any included text when you do a "reply to". It takes a bit of effort to invert that order. Also, most, if not all, corporate email exchanges use top posting, so insisting that users bottom post is forcing users to modify their behavior to satisfy the limits of the software (your threading newsgroup stuff). Like I said above, I don't give a rip one way or the other. I just find it amusing that I can almost set my watch to the time that it takes someone to admonish "No top post, please!" Fred -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Stevens
I view the list's messages individually in kmail, not as a newsgroup and not with a threaded view. It matters not to me if someone top posts, bottom posts or inserts comments in the included text.
your choice
In fairness to those who make the "mistake" of top posting, many email clients (especially the free ones, like Yahoo mail) put you at the top of any included text when you do a "reply to".
still choice
It takes a bit of effort to invert that order. Also, most, if not all, corporate email exchanges use top posting, so insisting that users bottom post is forcing users to modify their behavior to satisfy the limits of the software (your threading newsgroup stuff).
Kind of like going to another country and refusing to observe their customs, use their language, eat their food or commerce with their coin.
Like I said above, I don't give a rip one way or the other. I just find it amusing that I can almost set my watch to the time that it takes someone to admonish "No top post, please!"
Almost like refusing to remove your shoes when entering an establishment where that action is required. Please, refuse to recognize accepted standards. It's the way to show that you are you. My sons both acted that way when they were 3-5 :^) -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
It's so sad that your sons no longer have any individuality... :(
Note the top post!
(AND the dripping sarcasm...)
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Shanahan [mailto:ptilopteri@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:34 AM
To: opensuse@opensuse.org
Subject: Re: [opensuse] list cops blaming top posts
* Stevens
I view the list's messages individually in kmail, not as a newsgroup and not with a threaded view. It matters not to me if someone top posts, bottom posts or inserts comments in the included text.
your choice
In fairness to those who make the "mistake" of top posting, many email clients (especially the free ones, like Yahoo mail) put you at the top of any included text when you do a "reply to".
still choice
It takes a bit of effort to invert that order. Also, most, if not all, corporate email exchanges use top posting, so insisting that users bottom post is forcing users to modify their behavior to satisfy the limits of the software (your threading newsgroup stuff).
Kind of like going to another country and refusing to observe their customs, use their language, eat their food or commerce with their coin.
Like I said above, I don't give a rip one way or the other. I just find it amusing that I can almost set my watch to the time that it takes someone to admonish "No top post, please!"
Almost like refusing to remove your shoes when entering an establishment where that action is required. Please, refuse to recognize accepted standards. It's the way to show that you are you. My sons both acted that way when they were 3-5 :^) -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.7/992 - Release Date: 9/6/2007 8:36 AM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
It's so sad that your sons no longer have any individuality... :(
Note the top post!
(AND the dripping sarcasm...)
I've been around for awhile and have participated in several discussion lists like this one. In most of them, the topic of top-posting vs bottom-posting comes up sooner or later. In many of those, the topic takes on the character of a flame war, some of the discussion lists being destroyed by such wars. In those that survived, not much changed. Some people still top-posted while others still bottom-posted. My point is to be careful with this topic. This is a good list with lots of experienced people helping lots of newbies. Let's not destroy it. Don Henson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I'm an old geezer but have not yet gotten so decrepit that I cannot
remember the essence of threads in which I participate. I want
replies posted at the top so that I can a) find them easily and b)
don't have to wast time scrolling down. Now, if I've forgotten the
essence of the thread I can always scroll down to refresh my mind --
which is MY problem, not the other poster's. So I always top post and
I want everybody else to top post.
There, I've come out of the closet!
Chuck Davis
On 9/7/07, Donald D Henson
It's so sad that your sons no longer have any individuality... :(
Note the top post!
(AND the dripping sarcasm...)
I've been around for awhile and have participated in several discussion lists like this one. In most of them, the topic of top-posting vs bottom-posting comes up sooner or later. In many of those, the topic takes on the character of a flame war, some of the discussion lists being destroyed by such wars. In those that survived, not much changed. Some people still top-posted while others still bottom-posted. My point is to be careful with this topic. This is a good list with lots of experienced people helping lots of newbies. Let's not destroy it.
Don Henson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2007/09/07 10:01 (GMT-0700) Chuck Davis apparently typed:
I'm an old geezer but have not yet gotten so decrepit that I cannot remember the essence of threads in which I participate. I want replies posted at the top so that I can a) find them easily and b) don't have to wast time scrolling down. Now, if I've forgotten the essence of the thread I can always scroll down to refresh my mind -- which is MY problem, not the other poster's. So I always top post and I want everybody else to top post.
You won't get it from this old geezer. I see hundreds of posts from dozens of mailing lists each day. There's no way I'm going to remember the context of some random reply, so I nearly always have to read some quoted material before the reply can have contextual meaning. A: Because it breaks the logical sequence of the discussion. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? -- "It yet remains a problem to be solved in human affairs, whether any free government can be permanent, where the public worship of God, and the support of religion, constitute no part of the policy or duty of the state in any assignable shape." Chief Justice Joseph Story Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
You won't get it from this old geezer. I see hundreds of posts from dozens of mailing lists each day. There's no way I'm going to remember the context of some random reply, so I nearly always have to read some quoted material before the reply can have contextual meaning.
I don't mind top posts at all, because the subject is enough to give me context. The answer is what I want, and quickly. A small snippet of the previous thread, just enough to give context, is optimal, and I don't care too much if it's above or below the answer. What I don't like is having to wade down through the tedious history of a huge series of postings (all of which I've read several times before) just to see a one-line answer buried at the very bottom. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Sloan wrote:
What I don't like is having to wade down through the tedious history of a huge series of postings (all of which I've read several times before) just to see a one-line answer buried at the very bottom.
this is also a very bad action by the poster jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 September 2007 10:49, jdd wrote:
Sloan wrote:
What I don't like is having to wade down through the tedious history of a huge series of postings (all of which I've read several times before) just to see a one-line answer buried at the very bottom.
this is also a very bad action by the poster
Yes, but this is the result of being lazy and not trimming the reply to the relevant part, which all of us should do anyway. I find top posters are worse at doing this because they don't see the rest of the article as easily as you do if you bottom post. -- Bob Smits bob@rsmits.ca Windows - noun. 1. Global virus. 2. 32 bit extension and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition. - Harry Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/7/07, Sloan
Felix Miata wrote:
You won't get it from this old geezer. I see hundreds of posts from dozens of mailing lists each day. There's no way I'm going to remember the context of some random reply, so I nearly always have to read some quoted material before the reply can have contextual meaning.
I don't mind top posts at all, because the subject is enough to give me context. The answer is what I want, and quickly. A small snippet of the previous thread, just enough to give context, is optimal, and I don't care too much if it's above or below the answer.
What I don't like is having to wade down through the tedious history of a huge series of postings (all of which I've read several times before) just to see a one-line answer buried at the very bottom.
Joe
Joe, You might want to experiment with gmail. It takes all quoted text and hides it behind a hypertext that says "- Show quoted text -" most of the time. Then if you need the context you just click on it. I too read hundreds of list based emails a day. I only expand the quoted text a couple times a day (if that). Greg -- Greg Freemyer Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2007-09-07 at 14:07 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
You might want to experiment with gmail. It takes all quoted text and hides it behind a hypertext that says "- Show quoted text -" most of the time.
This has the side effect that when people reply, they "forget" to remove the extra material, because they don't see it. Bottom posting without removing extra quotes is, IMO, somewhat worse than top posting. And chained top-posting (dozens of old posts, complete, at the bottom) is the worst of all. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFG4Zl2tTMYHG2NR9URAq05AJwOYCF8vSiZplg/rJ1fW6zA2YtLkACeMV5r +x0nMPWzgYwbTV5sW5ZqVA4= =HSyR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Friday 2007-09-07 at 14:07 -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:
You might want to experiment with gmail. It takes all quoted text and hides it behind a hypertext that says "- Show quoted text -" most of the time.
This has the side effect that when people reply, they "forget" to remove the extra material, because they don't see it.
Bottom posting without removing extra quotes is, IMO, somewhat worse than top posting.
Indeed, for a couple of years, I once did that deliberately with ALL messages to soc.singles, just because the majority of the participants on that newsgroup were assholes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 7. September 2007 22:46:22 schrieb Aaron Kulkis:
Bottom posting without removing extra quotes is, IMO, somewhat worse than top posting.
Indeed, for a couple of years, I once did that deliberately with ALL messages to soc.singles, just because the majority of the participants on that newsgroup were assholes. Afaik it's something different on newsgroups! Where an answer can arrive before the original post. It's not the same as a ML ;)
Greetings
Michael Skiba wrote:
Am Freitag, 7. September 2007 22:46:22 schrieb Aaron Kulkis:
Bottom posting without removing extra quotes is, IMO, somewhat worse than top posting. Indeed, for a couple of years, I once did that deliberately with ALL messages to soc.singles, just because the majority of the participants on that newsgroup were assholes.
Afaik it's something different on newsgroups! Where an answer can arrive before the original post. It's not the same as a ML ;)
Out-of-order delivery happens on mailing lists, too. I notice it frequently (several times/week)
Greetings
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Greg Freemyer wrote:
On 9/7/07, Sloan
wrote: Felix Miata wrote:
You won't get it from this old geezer. I see hundreds of posts from dozens of mailing lists each day. There's no way I'm going to remember the context of some random reply, so I nearly always have to read some quoted material before the reply can have contextual meaning.
I don't mind top posts at all, because the subject is enough to give me context. The answer is what I want, and quickly. A small snippet of the previous thread, just enough to give context, is optimal, and I don't care too much if it's above or below the answer.
What I don't like is having to wade down through the tedious history of a huge series of postings (all of which I've read several times before) just to see a one-line answer buried at the very bottom.
Joe
Joe,
You might want to experiment with gmail. It takes all quoted text and hides it behind a hypertext that says "- Show quoted text -" most of the time.
Then if you need the context you just click on it. I too read hundreds of list based emails a day. I only expand the quoted text a couple times a day (if that).
That's great if you like web-mail, and all of it's attendant slowness associated with synchronous download operation, as opposed to the advantages of asynchronous download operation with normal, workstation-based mailers, in which all messages are downloaded to my computer as soon as they're available. Thus, I can go from message to message with the speed limited only by the 1/4 Gigabyte/second data transfer speeds of my machine's internal data busses, NOT the 1 MB/second or less of my ISP connection (and even WORSE when I was in Baghdad...) It's quite presumptuous to assume that everyone has good network bandwidth. Many participants do not.
Greg
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What you two think or want is completely irrelevant, for 2 reasons:
1) You are not the moderators of the list
2) The moderator couldnt care less about that topic, it seems
But its good you guys send those passionate emails telling what you
guys think and stuff, so you can let go with your internal emotions
and you will have a better day. Just let go, cry or shout if you feel
like too. Then take a deep breath and continue with your life.
Marcio
---
Druid
PS: I top posted and bottom posted this reply so everybody will feel
all warm and fuzzy
On 9/7/07, Felix Miata
On 2007/09/07 10:01 (GMT-0700) Chuck Davis apparently typed:
I'm an old geezer but have not yet gotten so decrepit that I cannot remember the essence of threads in which I participate. I want replies posted at the top so that I can a) find them easily and b) don't have to wast time scrolling down. Now, if I've forgotten the essence of the thread I can always scroll down to refresh my mind -- which is MY problem, not the other poster's. So I always top post and I want everybody else to top post.
You won't get it from this old geezer. I see hundreds of posts from dozens of mailing lists each day. There's no way I'm going to remember the context of some random reply, so I nearly always have to read some quoted material before the reply can have contextual meaning.
A: Because it breaks the logical sequence of the discussion. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? -- "It yet remains a problem to be solved in human affairs, whether any free government can be permanent, where the public worship of God, and the support of religion, constitute no part of the policy or duty of the state in any assignable shape." Chief Justice Joseph Story
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409
Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
What you two think or want is completely irrelevant, for 2 reasons: 1) You are not the moderators of the list 2) The moderator couldnt care less about that topic, it seems But its good you guys send those passionate emails telling what you guys think and stuff, so you can let go with your internal emotions and you will have a better day. Just let go, cry or shout if you feel like too. Then take a deep breath and continue with your life. Marcio --- Druid PS: I top posted and bottom posted this reply so everybody will feel all warm and fuzzy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag, 7. September 2007 19:33:54 schrieb Druid:
PS: I top posted and bottom posted this reply so everybody will feel all warm and fuzzy Unfortunately I just read it after I read the whole Top-Posting - where I had to wonder. So it didn't really help, sorry.
Just for the record I didn't take a position in this argue yet, but I can understand the people who don't like Top-Posting. Greetings Michael
On Fri, 7 Sep 2007, Druid wrote:-
What you two think or want is completely irrelevant, for 2 reasons:
Well, not quite irrelevant. It may be to you, but it isn't to them.
1) You are not the moderators of the list
There are no moderators of this list.
2) The moderator couldnt care less about that topic, it seems
I'm pretty sure you've read this before but, just in case you missed it, there are no moderators of this list. <snip>
PS: I top posted and bottom posted this reply so everybody will feel all warm and fuzzy
Not specifically aimed at you, but this seems like a good place to add it. It would appear that a lot of the users of this list could do with reading this: URL:http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette and specifically this part: URL:http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette#Bottom_post Regards, David Bolt -- Member of Team Acorn checking nodes at 100 Mnodes/s: www.distributed.net RISC OS 3.11 | SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit RISC OS 3.6 | SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit TOS 4.02 | SUSE 9.3 32bit | | openSUSE 10.3b2 32bit -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
There are no moderators of this list.
In case you are not sure, Ill take some time to explain. There is a guy, who knows the root password for the server in which the mailing list software, and probably the smtp server for this domain is installed. And this guy, having the powers to change settings in the list, he can be considered a moderator, or whatever. Since there are no moderators in the list, fuck off with the "oh post this or that way". I dont give a damn, go express your life frustration elsewhere.
2) The moderator couldnt care less about that topic, it seems
I'm pretty sure you've read this before but, just in case you missed it, there are no moderators of this list.
Again, read the root password etc etc etc. If the guy with the root password was giving a damn about that, he would be doing something. Since he is not doing a thing, and since you are not the guy with the root password, fuck off again.
Not specifically aimed at you, but this seems like a good place to add it. It would appear that a lot of the users of this list could do with reading this:
Sure. Now fuck off Best regards Marcio --- Druid -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 September 2007 22:11, Druid wrote:
There are no moderators of this list.
In case you are not sure, Ill take some time to explain. There is a guy, who knows the root password for the server in which the mailing list software, and probably the smtp server for this domain is installed. And this guy, having the powers to change settings in the list, he can be considered a moderator, or whatever.
Since there are no moderators in the list, fuck off with the "oh post this or that way". I dont give a damn, go express your life frustration elsewhere.
2) The moderator couldnt care less about that topic, it seems
I'm pretty sure you've read this before but, just in case you missed it, there are no moderators of this list.
Again, read the root password etc etc etc. If the guy with the root password was giving a damn about that, he would be doing something. Since he is not doing a thing, and since you are not the guy with the root password, fuck off again.
Not specifically aimed at you, but this seems like a good place to add it. It would appear that a lot of the users of this list could do with reading this:
Sure. Now fuck off
Hi Marcio, You are a super grade A #1 asshole. Bye Marcio, <plonk> -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Druid wrote:
There are no moderators of this list.
In case you are not sure, Ill take some time to explain. There is a guy, who knows the root password for the server in which the mailing list software, and probably the smtp server for this domain is installed. And this guy, having the powers to change settings in the list, he can be considered a moderator, or whatever.
This is an open list. It is NOT moderated. Just because someone has a root password doesn't make them a moderator. A moderator MODERATES. If nobody MODERATES the list, then it is UNMODERATED.
Since there are no moderators in the list, fuck off with the "oh post this or that way". I dont give a damn, go express your life frustration elsewhere.
Fuck you too, you conceited asshole.
2) The moderator couldnt care less about that topic, it seems I'm pretty sure you've read this before but, just in case you missed it, there are no moderators of this list.
Again, read the root password etc etc etc. If the guy with the root password was giving a damn about that, he would be doing something. Since he is not doing a thing, and since you are not the guy with the root password, fuck off again.
Posessing the root password does not make ANYONE a moderator. Get that through your thick, shit-filled, maggot-infested skull.
Not specifically aimed at you, but this seems like a good place to add it. It would appear that a lot of the users of this list could do with reading this:
Sure. Now fuck off
You were already instructed to do that several hours ago.
Best regards
Marcio --- Druid
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Am Samstag, 8. September 2007 08:41:01 schrieb Aaron Kulkis:
Fuck you too, you conceited asshole.
Again, read the root password etc etc etc. If the guy with the root password was giving a damn about that, he would be doing something. Since he is not doing a thing, and since you are not the guy with the root password, fuck off again.
Get that through your thick, shit-filled, maggot-infested skull.
Sure. Now fuck off
oh please, children behave like grown ups or go in the sandbox to play. This ain't nice to read anymore, beside you're only going to run into circles - one insulting the other - which then is pissed of again, insulting back, etc., etc. Act mature: There are people who recognize a discussion is senseless and leading nowhere constructive and other people who don't (want to? recognize this and keep feeding the fire with oil - now both of you show the list which kind you are and hopefully save your image. (And no, I don't want a reply on this! It stands there as it is, and I guess most grown up readers agree with me that, it's annoying, reading senseless insulting) Greetings Michael (btw. have a nice weekend :) )
oh please, children behave like grown ups or go in the sandbox to play. This ain't nice to read anymore
anymore? Oh, you mean now it aint funny anymore? hahahahah
Act mature: There are people who recognize a discussion is senseless and
there are? where?
(And no, I don't want a reply on this! It stands there as it is, and I guess most grown up readers agree with me that, it's annoying, reading senseless insulting)
Not my fault we have kids like aaron in the list. Would this be a decent media, this wouldnt be happening. Dare I say that even thew forums are better. This list has zero SNR -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
The fall back position when running out of intelligence is usually insults and profanity. -- (o:]>*HUGGLES*<[:o) Billie Walsh The three best words in the English Language: "I LOVE YOU" Pass them on! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 September 2007 15:27, Billie Walsh wrote:
The fall back position when running out of intelligence is usually insults and profanity.
I just think it's hilarious that these two are going at each other instead of the rest of us. Isn't it amazing how they were attracted to each other. Both are showing their maturity and intelligence. It just appears to the rest of the world that they are lacking in both. Mike -- Powered by SuSE 10.0 Kernel 2.6.13 X86_64 KDE 3.4 Kmail 1.8 4:38pm up 23 days 20:11, 5 users, load average: 2.02, 2.11, 2.14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Mike wrote:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 15:27, Billie Walsh wrote:
The fall back position when running out of intelligence is usually insults and profanity.
I just think it's hilarious that these two are going at each other instead of the rest of us. Isn't it amazing how they were attracted to each other. Both are showing their maturity and intelligence. It just appears to the rest of the world that they are lacking in both.
It takes someone with a spine to stand up to arrogant assholes and bullies such as Druid/Marcio. Don't worry, he won't be bothering this or any list quite shortly.
Mike
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Don't worry, he won't be bothering this or any list quite shortly.
You are just retarded. I mean, you should be in a mental health institution or something... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Druid wrote:
Don't worry, he won't be bothering this or any list quite shortly.
You are just retarded. I mean, you should be in a mental health institution or something...
Spot the projection -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Druid wrote:
Don't worry, he won't be bothering this or any list quite shortly.
You are just retarded. I mean, you should be in a mental health institution or something...
The beatings will now commence and continue until my morale improves. And if you come back ill-behaved, the complexity of your problem will increase geometrically. I do NOT suffer fools like you, and neither should the rest of the list. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hi Aaron,
Your isp and your mom will finally hear from you. Time for you at
adsl-76-226-66-120.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [76.226.66.120] to finally
get busy.
Have a good time
Fun you know how to use cron, but next time set a fake account. You
spam like a little kiddy girl.
Marcio
---
Druid
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
Mike wrote:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 15:27, Billie Walsh wrote:
The fall back position when running out of intelligence is usually insults and profanity.
I just think it's hilarious that these two are going at each other instead of the rest of us. Isn't it amazing how they were attracted to each other. Both are showing their maturity and intelligence. It just appears to the rest of the world that they are lacking in both.
It takes someone with a spine to stand up to arrogant assholes and bullies such as Druid/Marcio.
Don't worry, he won't be bothering this or any list quite shortly.
Mike
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oh, seems the BCCed message didnt make it. Dont worry, Ill make it available here: Here it goes. Read it, its fun. To: abuse@gmail.com, abuse@att.com, abuse@sbcglobal.net spam@uce.gov Subject: Abuse report of spam coming from adsl-76-226-66-120.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net Hi, abuse response teams Im having a problem with an account of your domain adsl-76-226-66-120.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [76.226.66.120]
From what I can tell he is using a Linux OS, and has set a cron job to send 12 email messages every 30 minutes to my email account using his nail program attaching a 1MB of binary data, which seem its clearly an automated spam incident.
I received today from in my account 150 messages of 1MB each from
this ip, with a fake name:
Return-Path:
Hi Aaron,
Your isp and your mom will finally hear from you. Time for you at adsl-76-226-66-120.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [76.226.66.120] to finally get busy.
Have a good time
Fun you know how to use cron, but next time set a fake account. You spam like a little kiddy girl.
Marcio --- Druid
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
wrote: Mike wrote:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 15:27, Billie Walsh wrote:
The fall back position when running out of intelligence is usually insults and profanity.
I just think it's hilarious that these two are going at each other instead of the rest of us. Isn't it amazing how they were attracted to each other. Both are showing their maturity and intelligence. It just appears to the rest of the world that they are lacking in both.
It takes someone with a spine to stand up to arrogant assholes and bullies such as Druid/Marcio.
Don't worry, he won't be bothering this or any list quite shortly.
Mike
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Druid wrote:
Hi Aaron,
Your isp and your mom will finally hear from you. Time for you at adsl-76-226-66-120.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [76.226.66.120] to finally get busy.
what spam?
Have a good time
Fun you know how to use cron, but next time set a fake account. You spam like a little kiddy girl.
Marcio --- Druid
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
wrote: Mike wrote:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 15:27, Billie Walsh wrote:
The fall back position when running out of intelligence is usually insults and profanity. I just think it's hilarious that these two are going at each other instead of the rest of us. Isn't it amazing how they were attracted to each other. Both are showing their maturity and intelligence. It just appears to the rest of the world that they are lacking in both. It takes someone with a spine to stand up to arrogant assholes and bullies such as Druid/Marcio.
Don't worry, he won't be bothering this or any list quite shortly.
Mike
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heh, funny your mom hasnt donated you to the circus. You could be
doing a good clown number
Maybe its still in time
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
Druid wrote:
Hi Aaron,
Your isp and your mom will finally hear from you. Time for you at adsl-76-226-66-120.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net [76.226.66.120] to finally get busy.
what spam?
Have a good time
Fun you know how to use cron, but next time set a fake account. You spam like a little kiddy girl.
Marcio --- Druid
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
wrote: Mike wrote:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 15:27, Billie Walsh wrote:
The fall back position when running out of intelligence is usually insults and profanity. I just think it's hilarious that these two are going at each other instead of the rest of us. Isn't it amazing how they were attracted to each other. Both are showing their maturity and intelligence. It just appears to the rest of the world that they are lacking in both. It takes someone with a spine to stand up to arrogant assholes and bullies such as Druid/Marcio.
Don't worry, he won't be bothering this or any list quite shortly.
Mike
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I'd like to remind everybody of our mailing list netiquette: http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette The goal of openSUSE is to create the best Linux distribution and to spread Linux. If you do not want to work together in a team and instead keep insulting each other, do it elsewhere, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform/openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Billie Walsh wrote:
The fall back position when running out of intelligence is usually insults and profanity.
Or sometimes, it's the most effective way of conveying extreme irritation and disgust. Learn the difference. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
Billie Walsh wrote:
The fall back position when running out of intelligence is usually insults and profanity.
Or sometimes, it's the most effective way of conveying extreme irritation and disgust.
Learn the difference.
Does your mom knows you are hanging out in the internet alone? Think somebody needs to tell her... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Billie Walsh wrote: (nothing interesting) very long thread. amusing to jump in from time to time. do you mean to continue until christmas? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 September 2007 11:42, jdd wrote:
Billie Walsh wrote: (nothing interesting)
very long thread. amusing to jump in from time to time. do you mean to continue until christmas?
I hope they at least get to some exciting subjects like hacker beer, wet t-shirts and gerbils. -- kai ponte www.perfectreign.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 September 2007 18:48, Kai Ponte wrote:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 11:42, jdd wrote:
Billie Walsh wrote: (nothing interesting)
very long thread. amusing to jump in from time to time. do you mean to continue until christmas?
I hope they at least get to some exciting subjects like hacker beer, wet t-shirts and gerbils.
-- kai ponte www.perfectreign.com
Isn't this enough, already? What a waste of bandwidth! --doug -- Blessed are the peacemakers ... for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 September 2007 16:46, Doug McGarrett wrote:
Isn't this enough, already? What a waste of bandwidth! --doug
Yeah, I agree. The limited bandwidth we have would be better served ensuring that all the pr0n, youtube and ebaumsworld videos get downloaded along with making sure all the online poker sites are easy to access. -- kai ponte www.perfectreign.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Kai Ponte wrote:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 16:46, Doug McGarrett wrote:
Isn't this enough, already? What a waste of bandwidth! --doug
Yeah, I agree.
The limited bandwidth we have would be better served ensuring that all the pr0n, youtube and ebaumsworld videos get downloaded along with making sure all the online poker sites are easy to access.
not to mention any newcomers unsubscribing, because of this sheer nonsense.....I cant blame them, If I subscribed anytime over the last couple days I wouldnt be sticking around...... this stupid thread has dominated the list for longer than it has needed to be. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 08 September 2007 16:53, Kai Ponte wrote:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 16:46, Doug McGarrett wrote:
Isn't this enough, already? What a waste of bandwidth! --doug
Yeah, I agree.
The limited bandwidth we have
Limited bandwidth? Surely you jest. Even if every person with an Internet connection subscribed to OpenSUSE@OpenSUSE.org, this drivel would remain an infinitesimal portion of the data traffic on the Internet. Face it, all these "bandwidth" arguments, when applied to email lists, are utterly false. The internet traffics in digital media (audio and video) on a grand scale. A smattering of moronic "yo' mamma" traffic on one email distribution list is miniscule just by comparison to the spam traversing the 'Net.
...
-- kai ponte
RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Face it, all these "bandwidth" arguments, when applied to email lists, are utterly false.
the bandwith in question is that of 56k modem owners... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag, 9. September 2007 03:02:18 schrieb Randall R Schulz:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 16:53, Kai Ponte wrote:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 16:46, Doug McGarrett wrote:
Isn't this enough, already? What a waste of bandwidth! --doug
Yeah, I agree.
The limited bandwidth we have
Limited bandwidth? Surely you jest. Even if every person with an Internet connection subscribed to OpenSUSE@OpenSUSE.org, this drivel would remain an infinitesimal portion of the data traffic on the Internet.
Face it, all these "bandwidth" arguments, when applied to email lists, are utterly false. The internet traffics in digital media (audio and video) on a grand scale. A smattering of moronic "yo' mamma" traffic on one email distribution list is miniscule just by comparison to the spam traversing the 'Net. Uhm.. afaik we're talking about analog modem users, those with 56k or even lower, who have to wait a few minutes till they've all their mails ;)
(yes they still exist) Greetings Michael
may those people use webmail
On 9/9/07, Michael Skiba
Am Sonntag, 9. September 2007 03:02:18 schrieb Randall R Schulz:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 16:53, Kai Ponte wrote:
On Saturday 08 September 2007 16:46, Doug McGarrett wrote:
Isn't this enough, already? What a waste of bandwidth! --doug
Yeah, I agree.
The limited bandwidth we have
Limited bandwidth? Surely you jest. Even if every person with an Internet connection subscribed to OpenSUSE@OpenSUSE.org, this drivel would remain an infinitesimal portion of the data traffic on the Internet.
Face it, all these "bandwidth" arguments, when applied to email lists, are utterly false. The internet traffics in digital media (audio and video) on a grand scale. A smattering of moronic "yo' mamma" traffic on one email distribution list is miniscule just by comparison to the spam traversing the 'Net. Uhm.. afaik we're talking about analog modem users, those with 56k or even lower, who have to wait a few minutes till they've all their mails ;)
(yes they still exist)
Greetings Michael
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* Michael Skiba
you disqualified yourself for getting an answer :)
s/answer/breathing/
Everyone else feel free to ask the same question ;)
:^) -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Yeah, becayse repeating "you are an asshole" in the internet will make
your life much less sad than it is right. Wow, lets repeat and if I
repeat a lot people will stop thinking Im a kid that shouldnt have
internet access without the supervision of an adult.
may your mom see you posting stuff like this and put soap in your
mouth. And take away your dessert for a whole week.
heh
Marcio
---
Druid
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
Druid wrote:
There are no moderators of this list.
In case you are not sure, Ill take some time to explain. There is a guy, who knows the root password for the server in which the mailing list software, and probably the smtp server for this domain is installed. And this guy, having the powers to change settings in the list, he can be considered a moderator, or whatever.
This is an open list. It is NOT moderated.
Just because someone has a root password doesn't make them a moderator.
A moderator MODERATES.
If nobody MODERATES the list, then it is UNMODERATED.
Since there are no moderators in the list, fuck off with the "oh post this or that way". I dont give a damn, go express your life frustration elsewhere.
Fuck you too, you conceited asshole.
2) The moderator couldnt care less about that topic, it seems I'm pretty sure you've read this before but, just in case you missed it, there are no moderators of this list.
Again, read the root password etc etc etc. If the guy with the root password was giving a damn about that, he would be doing something. Since he is not doing a thing, and since you are not the guy with the root password, fuck off again.
Posessing the root password does not make ANYONE a moderator.
Get that through your thick, shit-filled, maggot-infested skull.
Not specifically aimed at you, but this seems like a good place to add it. It would appear that a lot of the users of this list could do with reading this:
Sure. Now fuck off
You were already instructed to do that several hours ago.
Best regards
Marcio --- Druid
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Druid wrote:
Yeah, becayse repeating "you are an asshole" in the internet will make your life much less sad than it is right. Wow, lets repeat and if I repeat a lot people will stop thinking Im a kid that shouldnt have internet access without the supervision of an adult.
may your mom see you posting stuff like this and put soap in your mouth. And take away your dessert for a whole week.
Your days of being a worthless annoyance are now ended. Henceforth, you will only be worthless.
heh
Marcio --- Druid
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
wrote: Druid wrote:
There are no moderators of this list. In case you are not sure, Ill take some time to explain. There is a guy, who knows the root password for the server in which the mailing list software, and probably the smtp server for this domain is installed. And this guy, having the powers to change settings in the list, he can be considered a moderator, or whatever.
This is an open list. It is NOT moderated.
Just because someone has a root password doesn't make them a moderator.
A moderator MODERATES.
If nobody MODERATES the list, then it is UNMODERATED.
Since there are no moderators in the list, fuck off with the "oh post this or that way". I dont give a damn, go express your life frustration elsewhere.
Fuck you too, you conceited asshole.
2) The moderator couldnt care less about that topic, it seems I'm pretty sure you've read this before but, just in case you missed it, there are no moderators of this list.
Again, read the root password etc etc etc. If the guy with the root password was giving a damn about that, he would be doing something. Since he is not doing a thing, and since you are not the guy with the root password, fuck off again.
Posessing the root password does not make ANYONE a moderator.
Get that through your thick, shit-filled, maggot-infested skull.
Not specifically aimed at you, but this seems like a good place to add it. It would appear that a lot of the users of this list could do with reading this: Sure. Now fuck off You were already instructed to do that several hours ago.
Best regards
Marcio --- Druid
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Henne? Would you, please?
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
Druid wrote:
Yeah, becayse repeating "you are an asshole" in the internet will make your life much less sad than it is right. Wow, lets repeat and if I repeat a lot people will stop thinking Im a kid that shouldnt have internet access without the supervision of an adult.
may your mom see you posting stuff like this and put soap in your mouth. And take away your dessert for a whole week.
Your days of being a worthless annoyance are now ended. Henceforth, you will only be worthless.
heh
Marcio --- Druid
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
wrote: Druid wrote:
There are no moderators of this list. In case you are not sure, Ill take some time to explain. There is a guy, who knows the root password for the server in which the mailing list software, and probably the smtp server for this domain is installed. And this guy, having the powers to change settings in the list, he can be considered a moderator, or whatever.
This is an open list. It is NOT moderated.
Just because someone has a root password doesn't make them a moderator.
A moderator MODERATES.
If nobody MODERATES the list, then it is UNMODERATED.
Since there are no moderators in the list, fuck off with the "oh post this or that way". I dont give a damn, go express your life frustration elsewhere.
Fuck you too, you conceited asshole.
2) The moderator couldnt care less about that topic, it seems I'm pretty sure you've read this before but, just in case you missed it, there are no moderators of this list.
Again, read the root password etc etc etc. If the guy with the root password was giving a damn about that, he would be doing something. Since he is not doing a thing, and since you are not the guy with the root password, fuck off again.
Posessing the root password does not make ANYONE a moderator.
Get that through your thick, shit-filled, maggot-infested skull.
Not specifically aimed at you, but this seems like a good place to add it. It would appear that a lot of the users of this list could do with reading this: Sure. Now fuck off You were already instructed to do that several hours ago.
Best regards
Marcio --- Druid
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Druid wrote:
Yeah, becayse repeating "you are an asshole" in the internet will make your life much less sad than it is right. Wow, lets repeat and if I repeat a lot people will stop thinking Im a kid that shouldnt have internet access without the supervision of an adult.
may your mom see you posting stuff like this and put soap in your mouth. And take away your dessert for a whole week.
heh
Marcio --- Druid
On 9/8/07, Aaron Kulkis
wrote: Druid wrote:
There are no moderators of this list. In case you are not sure, Ill take some time to explain. There is a guy, who knows the root password for the server in which the mailing list software, and probably the smtp server for this domain is installed. And this guy, having the powers to change settings in the list, he can be considered a moderator, or whatever.
This is an open list. It is NOT moderated.
Just because someone has a root password doesn't make them a moderator.
A moderator MODERATES.
If nobody MODERATES the list, then it is UNMODERATED.
Since there are no moderators in the list, fuck off with the "oh post this or that way". I dont give a damn, go express your life frustration elsewhere.
Fuck you too, you conceited asshole.
2) The moderator couldnt care less about that topic, it seems I'm pretty sure you've read this before but, just in case you missed it, there are no moderators of this list.
Again, read the root password etc etc etc. If the guy with the root password was giving a damn about that, he would be doing something. Since he is not doing a thing, and since you are not the guy with the root password, fuck off again.
Posessing the root password does not make ANYONE a moderator.
Get that through your thick, shit-filled, maggot-infested skull.
Not specifically aimed at you, but this seems like a good place to add it. It would appear that a lot of the users of this list could do with reading this: Sure. Now fuck off You were already instructed to do that several hours ago.
Best regards
Marcio --- Druid
--
All I can say is "Thank You!". I haven't had this much fun following a post on this list in a long time............... May it be equally as long until I do again.............. (Please note, this is not directed against the sender) -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 (936) 715-9339 fax www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chuck Davis wrote:
I'm an old geezer but have not yet gotten so decrepit that I cannot remember the essence of threads in which I participate. I want
<snip> This is getting a little out of hand ... This is really to some extent a matter of common sense. This most important thing is to keep the content in some sort of coherent order so others can have a good chances of comprehending what the information is... As an aside there is a rational rather than religious reason that bottom posting is probably a better practise... For written English it is more natural to follow the sequence of responses down the page, it is expected that the last thing written is the most recent thing written... Top posting to be consistent would need to be the a push down stack of replies which is the complete reverse of the way that most western readers readers scan written english,... it effectively makes anything of any substance more difficult to read... (I believe there has been research to that supports this statement). (AFAIK there is no written script which goes bottom to top, right to left, left to right top to bottom are used in various combinations but bottom to top is unknown ..., ) mean. I what ... see you if :-) - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG4ZIFasN0sSnLmgIRAjWFAJ4qKuAVz1IZjh/lx4KcmJUuUv+ehACgyp8Z ZGNrJ6gVFCt/IfDXveCRJ8k= =wkAf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I agree, and I also read hundreds of e-mails every day. ==John ffitch
"Chuck" == Chuck Davis
writes:
Chuck> I'm an old geezer but have not yet gotten so decrepit that I cannot Chuck> remember the essence of threads in which I participate. I want Chuck> replies posted at the top so that I can a) find them easily and b) Chuck> don't have to wast time scrolling down. Now, if I've forgotten the Chuck> essence of the thread I can always scroll down to refresh my mind -- Chuck> which is MY problem, not the other poster's. So I always top post and Chuck> I want everybody else to top post. Chuck> There, I've come out of the closet! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stevens wrote:
Eberhard, and others:
I view the list's messages individually in kmail, not as a newsgroup and not with a threaded view. It matters not to me if someone top posts, bottom posts or inserts comments in the included text.
In fairness to those who make the "mistake" of top posting, many email clients (especially the free ones, like Yahoo mail) put you at the top of any included text when you do a "reply to". It takes a bit of effort to invert that order. Also, most, if not all, corporate email exchanges use top posting, so insisting that users bottom post is forcing users to modify their behavior to satisfy the limits of the software (your threading newsgroup stuff).
Like I said above, I don't give a rip one way or the other. I just find it amusing that I can almost set my watch to the time that it takes someone to admonish "No top post, please!"
Fred it's entirely up to anyone's choice how you prefer to do your mailings.
It's also my own choice that I prefer to use a threaded view and it's also up to me to not answer to mails that make it hard for me to understand the discussion. At the same time I am not someone that expects anyone in Italy (where I happened to do some vacation) to understand and speak my language. Instead I struggle hard to meet Italians within their own comfort zone as much as I can. Surprise, this works much better for me. :-))) kind regards Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 06 September 2007 10:55, Eberhard Roloff wrote:
At the same time I am not someone that expects anyone in Italy (where I happened to do some vacation) to understand and speak my language. Instead I struggle hard to meet Italians within their own comfort zone as much as I can.
Surprise, this works much better for me. :-)))
kind regards Eberhard
Also, On Thursday 06 September 2007 10:33 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Almost like refusing to remove your shoes when entering an establishment where that action is required.
Please, refuse to recognize accepted standards. It's the way to show that you are you. My sons both acted that way when they were 3-5 :^)
================= I think that there is a bit of confusion here. On the one hand we talk of "standards" and on the other speak of accomodation. I submit that the de facto standard is the way that millions of emailers send email, not the way that a miniscule number of newsgroupies do. As far as accomodation, please note that I, in fact, do bottom post. I just don't care if someone else does not. As far as removing shoes, I guess it depends on how bad your feet stink and what that does to the taste of the sushi. Fred -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2007-09-06 at 11:11 -0500, Stevens wrote:
I think that there is a bit of confusion here. On the one hand we talk of "standards" and on the other speak of accomodation. I submit that the de facto standard is the way that millions of emailers send email, not the way that a miniscule number of newsgroupies do. As far as accomodation, please note that I, in fact, do bottom post. I just don't care if someone else does not.
There is an RFC about this... so it is an standard :-P - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFG4Ch0tTMYHG2NR9URAsxpAJ9RxV0Z4eSHwF1a3Ikk7fsDLYLNMACdEa9d N9o8RhiNcPD/+Kq2zC0G+i8= =4bP1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007, Carlos E. R. wrote:-
The Thursday 2007-09-06 at 11:11 -0500, Stevens wrote:
I think that there is a bit of confusion here. On the one hand we talk of "standards" and on the other speak of accomodation. I submit that the de facto standard is the way that millions of emailers send email, not the way that a miniscule number of newsgroupies do. As far as accomodation, please note that I, in fact, do bottom post. I just don't care if someone else does not.
There is an RFC about this... so it is an standard :-P
And it's even mentioned here: URL:http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_mailing_list_netiquette#Bottom_post Regards, David Bolt -- Member of Team Acorn checking nodes at 100 Mnodes/s: www.distributed.net RISC OS 3.11 | SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit RISC OS 3.6 | SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit TOS 4.02 | SUSE 9.3 32bit | | openSUSE 10.3b2 32bit -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
In support to Eberhard:
On 9/6/07, Stevens
I think that there is a bit of confusion here. On the one hand we talk of "standards" and on the other speak of accomodation. I submit that the de facto standard is the way that millions of emailers send email, not the way that a miniscule number of newsgroupies do. As far as accomodation, please note that I, in fact, do bottom post. I just don't care if someone else does not.
Here is how it goes: someone comes to this mailing list to ask for help. Obviously this guy has something to learn. And he is the one who needs help. Together with the right answer, he is provided with a little bit more knowledge - what are the customs here, and why bottom-posting is more acceptable. And now we here, that this guy, who needed information - refuses to use it, because he is so important, that he can not be bothered to move the cursor down few lines and to trim the irrelevant part of the conversation. The message I read is: "I can save myself few seconds to not prepare my post as most of the users here expect, and you guys have the obligation to recognize how important my time is, and spend yours to scroll up and down and to help me." In my dictionary the softest word I can use for such an attitude is "inpolite". So, you have your right to not care about if someone top or bottom posts, but please respect the extra effort other put to educate the original poster a little bit more. I.e. this is not a "posting police", this is a friendly advice. And, yes, I know there are guys here, who will say "do not top-post" without providing any valuable answer to the question, but ... this is not "police" as well, there are other terms for them :)
As far as removing shoes, I guess it depends on how bad your feet stink and what that does to the taste of the sushi.
I got the humor here, but on the serious side - no one is responsible for someone else's hygiene problems. Follow the customs of your host, and prepare accordingly. If you can't, don't go there. Cheers, and let the this thread die, please. -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 06 September 2007 09:51, Sunny wrote:
In support to Eberhard:
...
Here is how it goes: someone comes to this mailing list to ask for help. Obviously this guy has something to learn. And he is the one who needs help. Together with the right answer, he is provided with a little bit more knowledge - what are the customs here, and why bottom-posting is more acceptable.
And now we here, that this guy, who needed information - refuses to use it, because he is so important, that he can not be bothered to move the cursor down few lines and to trim the irrelevant part of the conversation.
The message I read is: "I can save myself few seconds to not prepare my post as most of the users here expect, and you guys have the obligation to recognize how important my time is, and spend yours to scroll up and down and to help me."
In my dictionary the softest word I can use for such an attitude is "inpolite".
I think this is the crux of the matter. One person saves a little time by using the least effort path from where he (or she) is to where they want to get. In the process they produce inordinate burden on hundreds or maybe thousands of people, the same ones being asked to lend help! (This is the same thing that leads to thread hijacking. It's "so much" easier to use the Reply command 'cause it pre-fills the To: header.) At least this list has people on it who care about decorum and list etiquette. The large majority of the lists I participate in (and it's a lot of 'em) are populated by people with atrocious habits. [ By the way, in my dictionary, it's "impolite." ]
...
-- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny)
Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/6/07, Randall R Schulz
[ By the way, in my dictionary, it's "impolite." ]
#smart upgrade mydict Cheers -- Svetoslav Milenov (Sunny) Even the most advanced equipment in the hands of the ignorant is just a pile of scrap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 06 September 2007 19:01:27 Randall R Schulz wrote:
(This is the same thing that leads to thread hijacking. It's "so much" easier to use the Reply command 'cause it pre-fills the To: header.)
kmail has mailing list management for folders. This means you can set it up so when you right-click on the folder, you get the "new mail to mailing list" option. ctrl-shift-n is the shortcut, once the folder's mailing list properties are configured (to configure, highlight the folder, go to the "folder" menu and select "mailing list management". It has autodetection Another way is to right click on the mail address on an old mail in the list and select "new mail to" Just figured I'd throw it in there. the "l" for "reply to list" is frequently mentioned, but this I haven't seen on the list before. Maybe it helps someone to work better with kmail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Sunny wrote:
In support to Eberhard:
On 9/6/07, Stevens
wrote: I think that there is a bit of confusion here. On the one hand we talk of "standards" and on the other speak of accomodation. I submit that the de facto standard is the way that millions of emailers send email, not the way that a miniscule number of newsgroupies do. As far as accomodation, please note that I, in fact, do bottom post. I just don't care if someone else does not.
Here is how it goes: someone comes to this mailing list to ask for help. Obviously this guy has something to learn. And he is the one who needs help. Together with the right answer, he is provided with a little bit more knowledge - what are the customs here, and why bottom-posting is more acceptable.
And now we here, that this guy, who needed information - refuses to use it, because he is so important, that he can not be bothered to move the cursor down few lines and to trim the irrelevant part of the conversation.
The message I read is: "I can save myself few seconds to not prepare my post as most of the users here expect, and you guys have the obligation to recognize how important my time is, and spend yours to scroll up and down and to help me."
In my dictionary the softest word I can use for such an attitude is "inpolite".
So, you have your right to not care about if someone top or bottom posts, but please respect the extra effort other put to educate the original poster a little bit more. I.e. this is not a "posting police", this is a friendly advice.
And, yes, I know there are guys here, who will say "do not top-post" without providing any valuable answer to the question, but ... this is not "police" as well, there are other terms for them :)
As far as removing shoes, I guess it depends on how bad your feet stink and what that does to the taste of the sushi.
I got the humor here, but on the serious side - no one is responsible for someone else's hygiene problems. Follow the customs of your host, and prepare accordingly. If you can't, don't go there.
Cheers, and let the this thread die, please.
Hi Sunny, per PM, since this thread indeed deserves to die. Thank you very much for clarifying this in words that I cannot phrase any better. Eberhard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ups, now I got caught by using gmane! Sorry, this was meant to be PM, Apparently PM does not work with gmane, since the "real" Mail-address is sort of covered by something like this sloncho@gmail.com and, needless to say, it does not work. ;-( I apologize for confusion Eberhard P.S. just tried to see how a top-poster might feel. ;-)) I feel lousy and will not accomodate it. Eberhard Roloff wrote:
Sunny wrote:
In support to Eberhard: [...] Cheers, and let the this thread die, please.
Hi Sunny,
per PM, since this thread indeed deserves to die.
Thank you very much for clarifying this in words that I cannot phrase any better.
Eberhard
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Stevens wrote:
On Thursday 06 September 2007 10:55, Eberhard Roloff wrote:
At the same time I am not someone that expects anyone in Italy (where I happened to do some vacation) to understand and speak my language. Instead I struggle hard to meet Italians within their own comfort zone as much as I can.
Surprise, this works much better for me. :-)))
kind regards Eberhard
Also,
On Thursday 06 September 2007 10:33 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Almost like refusing to remove your shoes when entering an establishment where that action is required.
Please, refuse to recognize accepted standards. It's the way to show that you are you. My sons both acted that way when they were 3-5 :^)
=================
I think that there is a bit of confusion here. On the one hand we talk of "standards" and on the other speak of accomodation. I submit that the de facto standard is the way that millions of emailers send email, not the way that a miniscule number of newsgroupies do. As far as accomodation, please note that I, in fact, do bottom post. I just don't care if someone else does not.
Just because the morons in Redmond set up a stupid default configuration in no way obligates everyone else to follow a stupid example. Especially people on a list such as this-- who, by the very fact that they have installed an operating system, and use it, and it's NOT windows, have demonstrated the required computer proficiency to be able to figure out how to properly reply to an e-mail in a coherent readable manner.
As far as removing shoes, I guess it depends on how bad your feet stink and what that does to the taste of the sushi.
Sushi's not food... sushi is the bait you use to catch food ;-)
Fred
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Stevens wrote:
Eberhard, and others:
I view the list's messages individually in kmail, not as a newsgroup and not with a threaded view. It matters not to me if someone top posts, bottom posts or inserts comments in the included text.
the matter is not really top or bottom posting, it's what you do to make the life of others easier... bottom posting, if you let all the 500+ line thread is also evil. The good way of life is: * when answering, look at the "to" part to see if you send to the list or to the poster or both; * remove all the parts of the post that are irrelevant for your answer; * with this action, naturally, you will answer after this part. It _may_ be usefull to top post if no answer is awaited (you say "thanks", for example) and the subject was well choosen (not "I have a problem", but "bug #zertyu is still pending"), so the subject is enough to know what's about. there are probably some other exceptions too. And I'm gratefull to the people that takes time to explain this to others, because nothing is know by birth, specially in internet world, and beginners are numerous jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stevens wrote:
Eberhard, and others:
I view the list's messages individually in kmail, not as a newsgroup and not with a threaded view. It matters not to me if someone top posts, bottom posts or inserts comments in the included text.
In fairness to those who make the "mistake" of top posting, many email clients (especially the free ones, like Yahoo mail) put you at the top of any included text when you do a "reply to". It takes a bit of effort to invert that order. Also, most, if not all, corporate email exchanges use top posting, so insisting that users bottom post is forcing users to modify their behavior to satisfy the limits of the software (your threading newsgroup stuff).
Like I said above, I don't give a rip one way or the other. I just find it amusing that I can almost set my watch to the time that it takes someone to admonish "No top post, please!"
My favorite "Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting" page: http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html -- Jonathan Arnold (mailto:jdarnold@buddydog.org) LinuxBrainDump, Linux HowTo's and Tutorials: http://www.linuxbrainddump.org Daemon Dancing in the Dark, an Open OS weblog: http://freebsd.amazingdev.com/blog/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Jonathan Arnold wrote:
Stevens wrote:
Eberhard, and others:
I view the list's messages individually in kmail, not as a newsgroup and not with a threaded view. It matters not to me if someone top posts, bottom posts or inserts comments in the included text.
In fairness to those who make the "mistake" of top posting, many email clients (especially the free ones, like Yahoo mail) put you at the top of any included text when you do a "reply to". It takes a bit of effort to invert that order. Also, most, if not all, corporate email exchanges use top posting, so insisting that users bottom post is forcing users to modify their behavior to satisfy the limits of the software (your threading newsgroup stuff).
Like I said above, I don't give a rip one way or the other. I just find it amusing that I can almost set my watch to the time that it takes someone to admonish "No top post, please!"
My favorite "Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting" page:
It's probably too long a read for the lazy guy that is top-posting. Pretty effective is usually to show these lines: -------------------------------------------------------------
Because it messes up the flow of reading.
How come?
I prefer to reply inline.
What do you do instead?
No.
Do you like Top-posting?
-- Sandy List replies only please! Please address PMs to: news-reply2 (@) japantest (.) homelinux (.) com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:28:32 +0100, Sandy Drobic
My favorite "Why is Bottom-posting better than Top-posting" page:
It's probably too long a read for the lazy guy that is top-posting. Pretty effective is usually to show these lines:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Because it messes up the flow of reading.
How come?
I prefer to reply inline.
What do you do instead?
No. > Do you like Top-posting?
Hi, I am very grateful for hints like this. I want to be polite and indeed effective. When you are new to something you can keep making mistakes and annoying people without ever realising realising, so gentle and practical guidance is very welcome. Thank you, David d:¬)-' -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 06 September 2007 10:21, Stevens wrote:
I don't give a rip one way or the other
If you post in a flame war regarding top-posting, are those postings then therefore hot postings or post toasties... or are they just toasted posts? Inquiring minds want to know... which is all together different from toasted puffs... which are made from oats instead of corn... what were we talking about? ...oh yeah, I think it is best to put your fruit on top of the post toasties instead of the bottom... although sometimes the little slices of bannana slip to the bottom of the toasted posts making them hard to find in the milk... unless its shallow... but by that time they are soggy anyway... you know what I mean Marynard? But I don't give a rip... eat your post toasties dry if you want to ... huh? -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
M Harris wrote:
On Thursday 06 September 2007 10:21, Stevens wrote:
I don't give a rip one way or the other
If you post in a flame war regarding top-posting, are those postings then therefore hot postings or post toasties... or are they just toasted posts? Inquiring minds want to know... which is all together different from toasted puffs... which are made from oats instead of corn... what were we talking about? ...oh yeah, I think it is best to put your fruit on top of the post toasties instead of the bottom... although sometimes the little slices of bannana slip to the bottom of the toasted posts making them hard to find in the milk... unless its shallow... but by that time they are soggy anyway... you know what I mean Marynard? But I don't give a rip... eat your post toasties dry if you want to ... huh?
good one. I cant believe there is no monthly charge for the list, its almost as amusing as comedy central. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 07 September 2007 17:59, steve wrote:
...
good one. I cant believe there is no monthly charge for the list, its almost as amusing as Comedy Central.
Eh? You must not be watching The Daily Show. Jon Stewart et. cie. are a over-the-top hilarious. And it's real humor, not like these bozos, who just parade their mental impairments. Of course, the grist coming from Washington makes it easy for The Daily Show writers, but still, they really do it well. RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Stevens wrote:
Eberhard, and others:
I view the list's messages individually in kmail, not as a newsgroup and not with a threaded view. It matters not to me if someone top posts, bottom posts or inserts comments in the included text.
In fairness to those who make the "mistake" of top posting, many email clients (especially the free ones, like Yahoo mail) put you at the top of any included text when you do a "reply to". It takes
Lots of things take effort... like turning the key before you drive your car....such a GREAT effort, and yet, millions upon millions of people do it several times each day. I never realized that holding down the [down-arrow] key was such a great effort... By the way, bottom posting also encourages TRIMMING of the previous replies. Every group I've been in which top-posting is the norm, individual messages contain a dozen or more prior postings in each new reply...which, to be frank, provides TOO MUCH history (while, still difficult to follow because it's stacked backwards.
a bit of effort to invert that order. Also, most, if not all, corporate email exchanges use top posting, so insisting that users bottom post is forcing users to modify their behavior to satisfy the limits of the software (your threading newsgroup stuff).
Like I said above, I don't give a rip one way or the other. I just find it amusing that I can almost set my watch to the time that it takes someone to admonish "No top post, please!"
Fred
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participants (33)
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Aaron Kulkis
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Anders Johansson
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Andreas Jaeger
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Billie Walsh
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Bob S
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Carlos E. R.
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Chuck Davis
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d_garbage
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David Bolt
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David C. Rankin
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Donald D Henson
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Doug McGarrett
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Druid
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Eberhard Roloff
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Felix Miata
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G T Smith
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Greg Freemyer
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jdd
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Jonathan Arnold
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jpff
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Kai Ponte
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M Harris
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Michael Skiba
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Michael Smith
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Mike
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Patrick Shanahan
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Randall R Schulz
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Robert Smits
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Sandy Drobic
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Sloan
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steve
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Stevens
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Sunny