Re: [opensuse] Moving to IPv6
Ilya Chernykh wrote:
When cabling a building for a new service, you're not going to do it for
just some. It'll be an all or none situation.
Why?
It costs a lot of money to send a crew to a site and have them run cables. Once there, it doesn't cost a lot more to run several cables. So, when a company comes in to cable a building, they're going to want to do it all at once, rather than send out a crew later just to hook up one customer.
First, there is no need for new cable, the old one will work, second, it's a matter of 20 min to lay a new cable from the hub to the flat.
1) Very few buildings are wired for ethernet. They have phone cable and perhaps TV cable. 2) You're not going to run a lot of ethernet over phone cable, even though that cable (if cat 3) is capable of running 10baseT ethernet. Most multi-unit homes (apartments, condos etc.) are wired to provide phone lines to every unit, plus a few spares for those who want more that one line and also replacement of failed pairs. Ethernet will require two more pairs to each unit and for 100 Mb ethernet, it had better be cat 5 or better and not cat 3 that's been used in recent years for phone. There is also, in older buildings, phone cable that's not even cat 3 and therefore not capable of supporting ethernet. So, you have all these buildings that do not have the necessary cables to support ethernet. So, tell me again, what will be used to carry ethernet? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 13 September 2010 18:22:41 James Knott wrote:
When cabling a building for a new service, you're not going to do it for
just some. It'll be an all or none situation.
Why?
It costs a lot of money to send a crew to a site and have them run cables.
Just send a student to insert a cable into a socket and put it into a hole? are you kidding?
Once there, it doesn't cost a lot more to run several cables. So, when a company comes in to cable a building, they're going to want to do it all at once, rather than send out a crew later just to hook up one customer.
Well this is not the case. Why to have 50 cables to dangle in the utility tube without purpose if adding a new cable is a matter of 10 minutes? Not to say, people can steal non-used cables.
First, there is no need for new cable, the old one will work, second, it's a matter of 20 min to lay a new cable from the hub to the flat.
1) Very few buildings are wired for ethernet. They have phone cable and perhaps TV cable.
Not here. Some building here have up to 6-7 Ethernet providers at once.
2) You're not going to run a lot of ethernet over phone cable, even though that cable (if cat 3) is capable of running 10baseT ethernet. Most multi-unit homes (apartments, condos etc.) are wired to provide phone lines to every unit, plus a few spares for those who want more that one line and also replacement of failed pairs. Ethernet will require two more pairs to each unit and for 100 Mb ethernet, it had better be cat 5 or better and not cat 3 that's been used in recent years for phone. There is also, in older buildings, phone cable that's not even cat 3 and therefore not capable of supporting ethernet.
So, you have all these buildings that do not have the necessary cables to support ethernet. So, tell me again, what will be used to carry ethernet?
Ethernet cables. Why that weird idea to use phone cable for ethernet? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ilya Chernykh wrote:
Just send a student to insert a cable into a socket and put it into a hole? are you kidding?
I think this has gone on long enough. First off, I have many years experience in both telecommunications and computer networks, both as a technician and in planning, so I do know what I'm talking about. Second, the more you talk, the less credible you become. I suspect I'm not the only one here who has noticed this. The impression I get is you may have hacked together something in your neighbourhood, but that is in no way suitable for providing a reliable network for paying customers. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 13 September 2010 18:52:00 James Knott wrote:
Just send a student to insert a cable into a socket and put it into a hole? are you kidding?
I think this has gone on long enough.
First off, I have many years experience in both telecommunications and computer networks, both as a technician and in planning, so I do know what I'm talking about.
About what? You think a student cannot just plug in the cable into a hub?
Second, the more you talk, the less credible you become. I suspect I'm not the only one here who has noticed this.
The impression I get is you may have hacked together something in your neighbourhood, but that is in no way suitable for providing a reliable network for paying customers.
I am connected to one of two largest providers in this city. I do not hack, I just pay each month for the service. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Monday 13 September 2010 18:52:00 James Knott wrote:
Just send a student to insert a cable into a socket and put it into a hole? are you kidding?
I think this has gone on long enough.
First off, I have many years experience in both telecommunications and computer networks, both as a technician and in planning, so I do know what I'm talking about.
About what? You think a student cannot just plug in the cable into a hub?
Well, elsewhere in the world, the internal wiring is not done with patch cables, but with Cat5/6 cable. In the central, these are then connected to a patch panel; in the individual apartments or offices, to the RJ45 socket in a little plastic box on the wall. Often a dual socket, one for ethernet, one for telephone. Working such an installation from the ground up is not a job for a student, but for engineers and electricians. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.5°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 13 September 2010 19:25:21 Per Jessen wrote:
I think this has gone on long enough.
First off, I have many years experience in both telecommunications and computer networks, both as a technician and in planning, so I do know what I'm talking about.
About what? You think a student cannot just plug in the cable into a hub?
Well, elsewhere in the world, the internal wiring is not done with patch cables, but with Cat5/6 cable. In the central, these are then connected to a patch panel; in the individual apartments or offices, to the RJ45 socket in a little plastic box on the wall. Often a dual socket, one for ethernet, one for telephone. Working such an installation from the ground up is not a job for a student, but for engineers and electricians.
They only provide the cable to the flat. Anything inside flat is done by user himself. And to provide the cable to the flat there is no need of nailing etc. Just to insert cable into a tube on one end and it will appear from the tube inside the flat. So just plug in into the socket on the hub and put it into a tube. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Ilya Chernykh wrote:
On Monday 13 September 2010 19:25:21 Per Jessen wrote:
I think this has gone on long enough.
First off, I have many years experience in both telecommunications and computer networks, both as a technician and in planning, so I do know what I'm talking about.
About what? You think a student cannot just plug in the cable into a hub?
Well, elsewhere in the world, the internal wiring is not done with patch cables, but with Cat5/6 cable. In the central, these are then connected to a patch panel; in the individual apartments or offices, to the RJ45 socket in a little plastic box on the wall. Often a dual socket, one for ethernet, one for telephone. Working such an installation from the ground up is not a job for a student, but for engineers and electricians.
They only provide the cable to the flat. Anything inside flat is done by user himself. And to provide the cable to the flat there is no need of nailing etc. Just to insert cable into a tube on one end and it will appear from the tube inside the flat. So just plug in into the socket on the hub and put it into a tube.
Well, as a professional I beg to differ. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.6°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
They only provide the cable to the flat. Anything inside flat is done
by user himself. And to provide the cable to the flat there is no need of nailing etc. Just to insert cable into a tube on one end and it will appear from the tube inside the flat. So just plug in into the socket on the hub and put it into a tube.
Well, as a professional I beg to differ.
I can just imagine him trying to stuff a CAT5 patch cord up 15 floors through a conduit. ;-) Multi-floor residential buildings tend to have a common conduit serving all floors, with one conduit for each stack of units. I guess he doesn't realize that, even with a fish, it's often difficult or impossible to run new cable along side old, in an existing conduit. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 13 September 2010 20:37:04 James Knott wrote:
Well, as a professional I beg to differ.
I can just imagine him trying to stuff a CAT5 patch cord up 15 floors through a conduit. ;-)
Multi-floor residential buildings tend to have a common conduit serving all floors, with one conduit for each stack of units. I guess he doesn't realize that, even with a fish, it's often difficult or impossible to run new cable along side old, in an existing conduit.
This is not needed to push the cable through all 12 floors at once. There is conduit between say 8th floor and 9th floor, they connect the utility box of 9th floor with utility box of 8th floor. Just push the cable from 9th floor box to 8th floor box, then to 7th floor box etc. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 13 September 2010 20:37:04 James Knott wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
They only provide the cable to the flat. Anything inside flat is done
by user himself. And to provide the cable to the flat there is no need of nailing etc. Just to insert cable into a tube on one end and it will appear from the tube inside the flat. So just plug in into the socket on the hub and put it into a tube.
Well, as a professional I beg to differ.
I can just imagine him trying to stuff a CAT5 patch cord up 15 floors through a conduit. ;-)
Multi-floor residential buildings tend to have a common conduit serving all floors, with one conduit for each stack of units. I guess he doesn't realize that, even with a fish, it's often difficult or impossible to run new cable along side old, in an existing conduit.
My utility box: http://static.itmages.ru/i/10/0913/h_1284397048_7fe89a1d22.png White are ethernet cables. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Ilya Chernykh -
James Knott -
Per Jessen