Forum & mailinglists ?
Sorry to bring this up again ... but what happened to the forum ? The openSUSE realease really is not very far away ! Maybe we could get on sites like linuxquestions.org an opensuse entry so that people wont get confused by the difference in name etc. ? A lot of posts recently on this list are simply end-user problems from people who are trying out openSuSE (thanx 4 those who are so interested) but this list is for development mostly ? This list seems somehow like the only official opensuse help rescource. We need more lists & a forum urgently IMO. Sorry for moaning but we can't just close our eyes & hope it'll just work out. Or maybe just a bit on thw wiki about where to get help. Enough moaning from me and apologies & thanx to those already dealing with these issues. ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
OK thanx .. must confess I haven't look at the site in a while. :-) --- Youssef CHAHIBI <chahibi@gmail.com> wrote:
The communicate section describes how to get help
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Winston Graeme wrote:
A lot of posts recently on this list are simply end-user problems from people who are trying out openSuSE (thanx 4 those who are so interested) but this list is for development mostly ?
I don't know if this list is for development only, but given that openSUSE is the project that works to create SuSE Linux, it sounds about right. I wouldn't expect many pure end-users to take part - their questions are probably best answered on the english or german language suse-lists? E.g. suse-linux-e@suse.com /Per Jessen, Zürich
Per Jessen wrote:
I wouldn't expect many pure end-users to take part - their questions are probably best answered on the english or german language suse-lists? E.g. suse-linux-e@suse.com
I think so, but just today an answer said that suse-lminux-e should not be used for 10.0. I objected to this. however it would probably be usefull, now that final 10.0 is so near, to split this list in "dev" and "users" jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, jdd wrote:
however it would probably be usefull, now that final 10.0 is so near, to split this list in "dev" and "users"
Basically this is already the case, because we have the openSUSE mailinglists (with a focus on development / beta testing) and the SUSE mailinglists (@suse.com) with some end-user related lists. Regards Christoph
On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 02:20:34PM +0200, Christoph Thiel wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, jdd wrote:
however it would probably be usefull, now that final 10.0 is so near, to split this list in "dev" and "users"
Basically this is already the case, because we have the openSUSE mailinglists (with a focus on development / beta testing) and the SUSE mailinglists (@suse.com) with some end-user related lists.
If this is your intention you should communicate this. Currently http://www.opensuse.org/Communicate says: "opensuse for general discussions about the openSUSE project." "suse-linux-e for general discussions about SUSE Linux." Robert -- Robert Schiele Tel.: +49-621-181-2214 Dipl.-Wirtsch.informatiker mailto:rschiele@uni-mannheim.de
Christoph Thiel wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, jdd wrote:
however it would probably be usefull, now that final 10.0 is so near, to split this list in "dev" and "users"
Basically this is already the case, because we have the openSUSE mailinglists (with a focus on development / beta testing) and the SUSE mailinglists (@suse.com) with some end-user related lists.
Right, that's the way I see it too. I think the "problem" arises because many people believe they use "OpenSUSE Linux", when in fact they're using "SuSE Linux (created by the OpenSUSE project)". Sounds like something for Novell to sort out - both naming and where you go for what help. /Per Jessen, Zürich
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Per Jessen wrote:
however it would probably be usefull, now that final 10.0 is so near, to split this list in "dev" and "users"
Basically this is already the case, because we have the openSUSE mailinglists (with a focus on development / beta testing) and the SUSE mailinglists (@suse.com) with some end-user related lists.
Right, that's the way I see it too. I think the "problem" arises because many people believe they use "OpenSUSE Linux", when in fact they're using "SuSE Linux (created by the OpenSUSE project)". Sounds like something for Novell to sort out - both naming and where you go for what help.
As I said earlier, we are going to look at this issue and will make sure to improve communication on naming/branding. Regards Christoph
Christoph Thiel wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, jdd wrote:
however it would probably be usefull, now that final 10.0 is so near, to split this list in "dev" and "users"
Basically this is already the case, because we have the openSUSE mailinglists (with a focus on development / beta testing) and the SUSE mailinglists (@suse.com) with some end-user related lists.
the @suse.com lists are very busy. SUSE 10.0 is special in many ways. May be deserve a special list (SUSE 10.x list) jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr
Hi, On Thursday, September 15, 2005 at 16:18:07, jdd wrote:
Christoph Thiel wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, jdd wrote:
however it would probably be usefull, now that final 10.0 is so near, to split this list in "dev" and "users"
Basically this is already the case, because we have the openSUSE mailinglists (with a focus on development / beta testing) and the SUSE mailinglists (@suse.com) with some end-user related lists.
the @suse.com lists are very busy. SUSE 10.0 is special in many ways.
In what ways? I dont see a difference there..
May be deserve a special list (SUSE 10.x list)
We already have to many lists... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Subsystems "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire)
On 15/09/05, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@suse.de> wrote:
the @suse.com lists are very busy. SUSE 10.0 is special in many ways.
In what ways? I dont see a difference there..
May be deserve a special list (SUSE 10.x list)
We already have to many lists...
Henne
Out of interest do people prefer mailing lists to news forums? I know there are 4 or 5 forums on news://forums.novell.com under the opensuse area (for want of a better word) I'm not trying to start some Novell/Suse bad feeling or anything just I prefer forums to mailing lists. The reason I joined this was because it offered something that the forums don't. It does seem a bit odd to have lots of different places that provide the same help. (And I'm not suggesting which is better) However I understand if you have a load of people used to one interface and another load of people used to another, you are going to wind one group up by saying everyone must use XXX. have fun Marcus -- Photos : www.flickr.com/photos/marcusc Blog : marcusbrain.blogspot.com `The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.' HST
Hi, On Thursday, September 15, 2005 at 15:38:54, Marcus Cooper wrote:
On 15/09/05, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@suse.de> wrote:
the @suse.com lists are very busy. SUSE 10.0 is special in many ways.
In what ways? I dont see a difference there..
May be deserve a special list (SUSE 10.x list)
We already have to many lists...
Henne
Out of interest do people prefer mailing lists to news forums?
That was not what we were talking about. We were talking about splitting this list into the two different one. Im all for webforums if you want them so badly :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Subsystems "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire)
On 15/09/05, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@suse.de> wrote:
Hi,
That was not what we were talking about. We were talking about splitting this list into the two different one. Im all for webforums if you want them so badly :)
Henne
Yep you were talking about splitting the list into two, devs and users for support. But my point was that there is already news (not web, the web interface is very very bad) forums that deal with the support side of things so why are you looking to duplicate things? Hence my question why are you not looking to use the already existing support forums do people prefer the mailing list? Sorry if I didn't explain myself properly the first time. Have fun Marcus -- Photos : www.flickr.com/photos/marcusc Blog : marcusbrain.blogspot.com `The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.' HST
Hi, On Thursday, September 15, 2005 at 15:50:25, Marcus Cooper wrote:
On 15/09/05, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@suse.de> wrote:
That was not what we were talking about. We were talking about splitting this list into the two different one. Im all for webforums if you want them so badly :)
Yep you were talking about splitting the list into two, devs and users for support. But my point was that there is already news (not web, the web interface is very very bad) forums that deal with the support side of things so why are you looking to duplicate things?
Thats what im saying. We always had one official user to user support forum. That was our mailinglist server. Actively used by over 10K people with more then 25K messages a month. No need to invent it again. Not in a web forum not in another list on lists.opensuse.org. But if you dont like mailinglists and you want to have web forums or whatever then im all for it. Go to one of the various forums that take care of this need. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Subsystems "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire)
Hiya On 15/09/05, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@suse.de> wrote:
Hi,
Thats what im saying. We always had one official user to user support forum. That was our mailinglist server. Actively used by over 10K people with more then 25K messages a month. No need to invent it again. Not in a web forum not in another list on lists.opensuse.org.
I agree, but jdd (or someone I deleted the email) was reporting that Suse 10 questions were told to use this list. And that led to people suggesting that this list be split. Which I agree with you is a bad idea as you say there are already the lists in place.
But if you dont like mailinglists and you want to have web forums or whatever then im all for it. Go to one of the various forums that take care of this need.
I was more wondering at the reason why there are two Novell/Suse official methods of providing this sort of support. The mailing lists you are talking about and the news forums I'm talking about. I imagine because that how it's been done in the past and there is no reason to wind up either group of people have fun Marcus -- Photos : www.flickr.com/photos/marcusc Blog : marcusbrain.blogspot.com `The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.' HST
Henne Vogelsang schrieb:
Hi,
On Thursday, September 15, 2005 at 15:50:25, Marcus Cooper wrote:
[...] But my point was that there is already news (not web, the web interface is very very bad) forums that deal with the support side of things so why are you looking to duplicate things?
Thats what im saying. We always had one official user to user support forum. That was our mailinglist server. Actively used by over 10K people with more then 25K messages a month. No need to invent it again. Not in a web forum not in another list on lists.opensuse.org.
A searchable mailing list archive would already help very much. A two-way gateway between a forum-like interface to the mailing list archive and the mailing list itself would be great. However, that is a lot of work and you'd have to find someone willing to do it. Regards, Carl-Daniel
On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 09:26:23PM +0200, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote:
A searchable mailing list archive would already help very much.
Put it online as a Usenetgroup and you can use groups.google.com
A two-way gateway between a forum-like interface to the mailing list archive and the mailing list itself would be great. However, that is a lot of work and you'd have to find someone willing to do it.
I am sure that it is some work, if it is a lot for somebody who has Usenetserver and Mailserver experience is something I somehow doubt. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 03:38:54PM +0100, Marcus Cooper wrote:
Out of interest do people prefer mailing lists to news forums?
If you talk about news forums as Usenet, I am all for that. If you talk about news forums as something on a website, no way I am going to follow that. What Novell (or SUSE) could do is set up news to mail and that way you have a choice of what to use.. I am sure it should be possible to make it moderated so only subscribers can post. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
hougi, On 15/09/05, houghi <houghi@houghi.org> wrote:
If you talk about news forums as Usenet, I am all for that.
Yep, using a newsreader. (Sorry I'm being explicit as people seem to think I mean a web based forum)
If you talk about news forums as something on a website, no way I am going to follow that.
Nope I agree, the current Novell web front end to the news forums is very very bad, I'm trying not to swear. :)
What Novell (or SUSE) could do is set up news to mail and that way you have a choice of what to use.. I am sure it should be possible to make it moderated so only subscribers can post.
Urm not sure about moderated as that would stop people from asking for help which is sort of the point. But I am not that bothered as I would use a news reader :) have fun Marcus -- Photos : www.flickr.com/photos/marcusc Blog : marcusbrain.blogspot.com `The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.' HST
houghi On 15/09/05, Marcus Cooper <fmwt.marcus@gmail.com> wrote:
hougi,
Arse, sorry I missed the h out of your name. I really hate doing that to people. -- Photos : www.flickr.com/photos/marcusc Blog : marcusbrain.blogspot.com `The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.' HST
On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 04:30:04PM +0100, Marcus Cooper wrote:
Nope I agree, the current Novell web front end to the news forums is very very bad, I'm trying not to swear. :)
I didn't even knew they HAD a webinterface (and I am not intersted to know where it is)
What Novell (or SUSE) could do is set up news to mail and that way you have a choice of what to use.. I am sure it should be possible to make it moderated so only subscribers can post.
Urm not sure about moderated as that would stop people from asking for help which is sort of the point. But I am not that bothered as I would use a news reader :)
For s development group, that is not a bad idea. And you had to subscribe for this list, right? houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
houghi wrote:
On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 03:38:54PM +0100, Marcus Cooper wrote:
Out of interest do people prefer mailing lists to news forums?
If you talk about news forums as Usenet, I am all for that.
I don't really understand the problem. My lug have a mailing list associated with a news server. messages are duplicated on the two supports. anybody use the one it likes the most. jdd -- pour m'écrire, aller sur: http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.net http://arvamip.free.fr
Am 15.09.2005 16:19 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
On Thursday, September 15, 2005 at 16:18:07, jdd wrote:
the @suse.com lists are very busy. SUSE 10.0 is special in many ways.
In what ways? I dont see a difference there..
In the "normal" suse-linux and suse-linux-e your main goal is to get help. With the opensuse one of the main reasons as I see it is to track down bugs. If you have too much traffic with people just trying to solve a problem (not a bug) you might miss the ones with the bugs. I second that -dev and -users Splitting. On the opensuse-users you could ask for help, cause your program is not running etc. And on -dev you could ask people to confirm a "bug" you might have found. One thing that makes opensuse special is that it is the first "community project". So people might get confused wether they can post their 10.0 problems to suse-linux(-e), so a special opensuse-users would be a good Idea IMHO.
May be deserve a special list (SUSE 10.x list)
We already have to many lists...
I dont think so. People might want to read just the part of all the traffic that they are interested in (25k of messages a month you said). I also think that setting up a mailinglist <=> newsserver interface would be a good idea. If you need a password to post to the newsserver that would be no problem. OJ -- Fenster putzen? Wenn ich raus schauen will, dann mach ich es auf... (Alexander Kluss in dcsm.misc)
participants (11)
-
Carl-Daniel Hailfinger -
Christoph Thiel -
Henne Vogelsang -
houghi -
jdd -
Johannes Kastl -
Marcus Cooper -
Per Jessen -
Robert Schiele -
Winston Graeme -
Youssef CHAHIBI