On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:06:14 +0100 jdd wrote:

did you first install the default distro, update it and then go on? or select all in yast and go on?

During the install, I clicked on a lot of things that weren't automatically selected to be installed, mainly because I wanted to play with as many things as possible. I left out stuff I knew I wouldn't need like a lot of the laptop and portable computing groups of packages, but basically clicked on all the other choices it gave me at install time, so I installed a lot more than the default, but not more than was on the DVD. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:18:55 -0600 "Rajko M." wrote:

Apropos the error, I think that you should use YOU (YaST Online Update) first, that will update z-related packages, and than the rest. Than you should not see the error.

Actually, I did try to update in yast instead of using the desktop applet, and got very much the same errors about python problems. I had hoped that if it was just different servers being synced at different times, that they would eventually get back in sync, but this python problem has persisted for weeks. Next time I have 10.2 booted, I'll try making all the repos point to the same mirror and see if that helps, but one of the things I wanted to do with 10.2 was observe its default behavior "out of the box" using the defaults it sets up - from that standpoint it is definitely a nightmare (even if it is fixable with a big enough hammer :-). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2/11/07, jdd wrote:

Tom Horsley wrote:

...

I wanted to do with 10.2 was observe its default behavior "out of the box" using the defaults it sets up - from that standpoint it is definitely a nightmare (even if it is fixable with a big enough hammer :-). I have opensuse 10.2 running on 7 machines in my local network, and have installed it on probably 10 different users machines in the last 2 months.

In my local network I have plethora of equipment, 2 IBM thinkpads (a21m and t23), Dell Inspiron 9400 E1705, 4 custom built servers that have a mix of nics, video card (ati and nvidia), soundcards, 1 pvr 500 mce, streamzap usb remote, and so on. And I have not had the kind of problems that OP has talked about having. This one has been rock solid on every install except the Dell Inspiron, I had to use ndiswrapper to get the onboard broadcom 4311 pcie wireless card to work (works well enough) and I had a minor problem getting the intel 945 to drive the monitor at 1440x900 default. Oh, one other minor problem, I originally installed the x86_64 on my AMD 64 and had a problem with firefox and plugins (none available for the 64 bit versions) and I fault the software makers for that. -- John Registered Linux User 263680, get counted at http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

I too have a problem with frequencies on SIS card and 1440x900 monitor. What was your problem?

Turns out I needed to put the following command into /etc/init.d/boot.local 915resolution 5c 1440 900 32 However, this is to correct a problem with the intel 945 chipset, I do not know if it would have any effect on an sis card. I found this solution with sever nights of googling. -- John Registered Linux User 263680, get counted at http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2/11/07, J Sloan wrote:

John Pierce wrote:

...

...

I too have a problem with frequencies on SIS card and 1440x900 monitor. What was your problem?

Turns out I needed to put the following command into /etc/init.d/boot.local

915resolution 5c 1440 900 32

However, this is to correct a problem with the intel 945 chipset, I do not know if it would have any effect on an sis card. I found this solution with sever nights of googling.

Why not just change change line 18 of /etc/sysconfig/videobios to read:

VIDEOBIOS_PARAMETERS="5c 1440 900"

Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Well, Joe that sounds like a winner. After all of the googling I only found the 915 thing that I posted about. I found that result and gave it a try and it worked for me, I had know Idea about the VIDEOBIOS_PARAMETERS= setting. I have been using linux since about 1998 with an early red disto that I downloaded and installed from rpms. I have learned quite a lot about linux since then and am willing to try anything. To me the best move I have ever made was ditching windows. I have converted my wife and sons and they hate to even use windows at work and school. I am not a guru, but I consider myself to be a power user at least, so I am always open to learning. Thanks -- John Registered Linux User 263680, get counted at http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2/11/07, J Sloan wrote:

John Pierce wrote:

...

On 2/11/07, J Sloan wrote:

...

...

Why not just change change line 18 of /etc/sysconfig/videobios to read:

VIDEOBIOS_PARAMETERS="5c 1440 900"

Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Well, Joe that sounds like a winner. After all of the googling I only found the 915 thing that I posted about.

I found that result and gave it a try and it worked for me, I had know Idea about the VIDEOBIOS_PARAMETERS= setting. I have been using linux since about 1998 with an early red disto that I downloaded and installed from rpms. I have learned quite a lot about linux since then and am willing to try anything. To me the best move I have ever made was ditching windows. I have converted my wife and sons and they hate to even use windows at work and school.

Wow that's cool - I've been running linux for some years too, and find that I have to keep learning, as it is constantly being refined and updated.

I tried to raise my kids right, and today all the guys in this house run linux, and all the girls use macs, so it's an all-unix house, and virus free!

Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Well, in my small community in central kentucky I have converted at least 20 windows users to linux users in the last 2 years. I am trying to get a lug started here and I think we are getting close to being a reality now. I have had a couple of meetings now with the superintendent of our school system and I think we might get to experiment with a small class at the middle school, maybe get them to use openoffice and a few linux terminals. We have been looking at the k12ltsp software. I don't think ms needs to be out of business, but if they lose enough business maybe they will mend their ways and start making quality software. I know you will probably say I am dreaming and I probably am. -- John Registered Linux User 263680, get counted at http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Pierce wrote:

...

On 2/11/07, J Sloan wrote:

...

Why not just change change line 18 of /etc/sysconfig/videobios to read:

VIDEOBIOS_PARAMETERS="5c 1440 900"

Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Well, Joe that sounds like a winner. After all of the googling I only found the 915 thing that I posted about.

I found that result and gave it a try and it worked for me, I had know Idea about the VIDEOBIOS_PARAMETERS= setting. I have been using linux since about 1998 with an early red disto that I downloaded and installed from rpms. I have learned quite a lot about linux since then and am willing to try anything. To me the best move I have ever made was ditching windows. I have converted my wife and sons and they hate to even use windows at work and school.

Wow that's cool - I've been running linux for some years too, and find that I have to keep learning, as it is constantly being refined and updated.

I tried to raise my kids right, and today all the guys in this house run linux, and all the girls use macs, so it's an all-unix house, and virus free! Do you have a reason not to have the girls Linux literate as well? My

On Sun February 11 2007 10:27 pm, J Sloan scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer: main grief w/ Mac is it's determination to sell both proprietary software and hardware. Talk abut a lock in, whiew! It's like console game companies, w/ the exception that game makers actually want lots of private companies to make games for their systems. Something that MS seems only to like if it's kids making programs that are free, or mainly free. -- j -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 12 February 2007 15:38, J Sloan wrote:

They both have macbooks. I'm much happier seeing them on OSX than windoze. Absolutely... and since MacOSX is essentially FreeBSD under-the-covers.

... and there is plenty of open-software for OSX... and because its *nix it runs virus free, and stable. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M. wrote:

the rest of the thread make clear that inexperience played a role in the problems.

there is lessons on all the problems. may be YaST should better look at the installed repositories to avoid duplicates and inconsistency (or at least give strong warnings). jdd -- http://www.dodin.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 02/12/2007 Marcus Meissner wrote:

Adding the Factory Repo gives this BETA Disclaimer Warning Screen:

openSUSE FACTORY 10.3-factory

Attention! You are accessing our BETA Distribution. If you install any package, note that we can NOT GIVE ANY SUPPORT for your system - no matter if you update from a previous system or do a complete new installation.

Use this BETA distribution at your own risk! We recommend it for testing, porting and evaluation purposes but not for any critical production systems.

If you are curious and would like to help us to find the bugs, you're very welcome. Please enter bug reports following the instructions given at http://bugs.opensuse.org . If you want to talk about this distribution with others, you can discuss on the mailing list opensuse-factory@opensuse.org.

Sources for development releases are not distributed via mirrors to reduce the bandwidth and storage on these mirrors.

You can always find the latest source at http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/SL-OSS-factory/

In case you need the exact source of this development release you can find it on: http://www.novell.com/products/opensuse/source_code.html

Alternatively, see http://www.novell.com/products/opensuse/source_code.html or send e-mail to sourcedvd@suse.de to request the source for a specific release of openSUSE on DVD. Please note that we will charge $15 or 15 Euros to cover our costs of distribution.

Use this distribution at your own risk - and remember to have a lot of fun! :)

Your openSUSE Team.

not when I did it. -- (o:]>*HUGGLES*<[:o) Billie Walsh The three best words in the English Language: "I LOVE YOU" Pass them on! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:

Dňa Po 12. Február 2007 09:37 jdd napísal:

...

...

the rest of the thread make clear that inexperience played a role in the problems.

Rajko M. wrote: there is lessons on all the problems. may be YaST should better look at the installed repositories to avoid duplicates and inconsistency (or at least give strong warnings).

What are you expectations here?

two different things: one yast shouldn't accept (without warning) two duplicate source (two sources of the same index? or same final name?) as they may be not in sync. in other worlds, there should not be two theorically indentical mirrors in the list second the update directory is directly related to one source directory and should be bind to him, why not setup in one movement (adding source add also update), at least for the official repository jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Le manuel d'optique de Lucien Dodin http://lesprismes.free.fr/optique/index.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:

That would assume there is a detection that the repos are in fact the same.

given they are said to be mirrors, this could be acheived :-) - usually the folder name is the same (SUSE/10.2/, for example - the other part varies)

I don't think this is realistic - this would mean a globally unique identification of a repository. A checksum might work out, or not.

no, the problem arise when the two mirrors are not in sync, so the checksum is to be different but should not :-(

Also, I believe you want this to apply for online repos only, correct?

of course

...

second

the update directory is directly related to one source directory and should be bind to him, why not setup in one movement (adding source add also update), at least for the official repository

I think it is more that an update repository is bound to a product installed.

still the mirror problem. one user can have the master (suse/10.2/) on a server and the suse/update/10.2 on an other server, possibly with not synced contents but, thinking, may be all this could be avoided using only download.opensuse.org as a souce. I know this is not always the better choice nowaday, but it could be (?) easier to fix download.opensuse.org than any other mirror. could it be possible to have a way to add mirrors on doo _only_ when they have synced? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Le manuel d'optique de Lucien Dodin http://lesprismes.free.fr/optique/index.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Bryan Tyson wrote:

usable and effective I mean it does not require the user to wait 60 minutes every time one wishes to add a package.

I never waited 60 minutes to install a package (the last one came even quite instantly to my great surprise :-). It's long, a little longer than Mandriva, but not so much, and much more secure than debian.

I used Suse from 6.0 through 9.2. I used to call Suse "the Cadillac of Linux distros." For all those years, package management was great.

don't know what hardware you where on. For my (ten years) SuSE experience, package management was always slow (I remember SuSEConfig running for very long :-() jdd -- http://www.dodin.net Le manuel d'optique de Lucien Dodin http://lesprismes.free.fr/optique/index.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 12 February 2007 13:24, Kai Ponte wrote:

On Monday 12 February 2007 12:09, jdd wrote:

...

Bryan Tyson wrote:

...

usable and effective I mean it does not require the user to wait 60 minutes every time one wishes to add a package.

I never waited 60 minutes to install a package (the last one came even quite instantly to my great surprise :-).

It's long, a little longer than Mandriva, but not so much, and much more secure than debian.

Just out of curiosity - why would SUSE be more secure than Debian? Aren't they both at the same level of security being Linux?

Do the Debian maintainers monitor security advisories and promptly release easily installed updates? Do they even have anything comparable to YOU? I always got the impression that Debian was for the extremely self-reliant Linux user. Personally, that's a fine philosophy, but I don't have time to do all that and actually use my Linux system for my own work. If that _is_ your work, then it makes sense, but if Linux is means for you rather than an end (say, you're a site administrator at an installation with many Linux users), then it makes sense to take advantage of the service provided by Novell in the form of security updates pre-built and delivered through an integrated mechanism (YOU). Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz wrote:

On Monday 12 February 2007 13:24, Kai Ponte wrote:

...

On Monday 12 February 2007 12:09, jdd wrote:

...

Bryan Tyson wrote:

...

usable and effective I mean it does not require the user to wait 60 minutes every time one wishes to add a package.

I never waited 60 minutes to install a package (the last one came even quite instantly to my great surprise :-).

It's long, a little longer than Mandriva, but not so much, and much more secure than debian.

Just out of curiosity - why would SUSE be more secure than Debian? Aren't they both at the same level of security being Linux?

Do the Debian maintainers monitor security advisories and promptly release easily installed updates? Yes. http://www.debian.org/security/ Do they even have anything comparable to YOU?

apt-get install cron-apt nano man cron-apt cat /usr/share/doc/cron-apt/README nano /etc/cron-apt/config (By default it gets the updates and doesn't install them)

I always got the impression that Debian was for the extremely self-reliant Linux user. Personally, that's a fine philosophy, but I don't have time to do all that and actually use my Linux system for my own work. If that _is_ your work, then it makes sense, but if Linux is means for you rather than an end (say, you're a site administrator at an installation with many Linux users), then it makes sense to take advantage of the service provided by Novell in the form of security updates pre-built and delivered through an integrated mechanism (YOU).

Your impression is correct, but that particular criticism is not really justified, IMO. Russell Jones -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon February 12 2007 2:20 pm, Bryan Tyson scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:

On Sun, 2007-02-11 at 21:33 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:

...

BTW, giving opinion about openSUSE as Mandriva user is IMHO somewhat displaced on this list.

Mandriva, Mepis, Kubuntu, and Fedora, to name a few that I am personally using right now, have a usable, effective package management system. By usable and effective I mean it does not require the user to wait 60 minutes every time one wishes to add a package.

I used Suse from 6.0 through 9.2. I used to call Suse "the Cadillac of Linux distros." For all those years, package management was great. What happened? I am involuntarily a non-OpenSuse user until it has a decent package system.

So what do you have to offer this list for this distro then? As they always tell me, if you don't like what you see, create your own. Perhaps you have some sort of good ideas about how to create a system that doesn't take forever to add/remove packages to contribute? Something constructive perhaps? -- j -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:20:21 -0500 Bryan Tyson wrote:

I used Suse from 6.0 through 9.2. I used to call Suse "the Cadillac of Linux distros." For all those years, package management was great. What happened?

I've always had a suspicion that the folks responsible for the decision to buy Ximian and get nothing for the money decided to pretend it was a good decision by hyping the Ximian update technology as the wave of the future, and ever since then they have been trying to wedge the square peg into the round hole to justify their original mistake :-). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 12 February 2007 21:13, jfweber@gilweber.com wrote:

On Mon February 12 2007 5:33 pm, Tom Horsley scratched these words onto

a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:

...

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:20:21 -0500

Bryan Tyson wrote:

...

I used Suse from 6.0 through 9.2. I used to call Suse "the Cadillac of Linux distros." For all those years, package management was great. What happened?

I've always had a suspicion that the folks responsible for the decision to buy Ximian and get nothing for the money decided to pretend it was a good decision by hyping the Ximian update technology as the wave of the future, and ever since then they have been trying to wedge the square peg into the round hole to justify their original mistake :-).

Gee I thought they bought Ximian for the pretty desktop they could make. Wasn't that the one w/ all the great graphics ? Or maybe it's late and I need a new caffeine infusion. The darned stuff burns off so fast these days.

Ximian gave us the New and Improved Evolution. I personally haven't tried it, but I've heard it is new and improved over the previous version. Supposedly we get XGL or Compiz or something to that effect. I dunno.

ooh, gotta run and find out how to turn the heat on.. the weather guesser is threatening a freeze happening around noon tomorrow? Seems a strange time for the coldest bit of the day, usually that is a day w/o sun er, nevermind, it's going to be that sort of day...

Wonder if I have enough credits to get a ticket south, say to Trinidad/Tobago ... or somewhere in that general latitude, Two hours further north than I was in Davie, and suddenly there is real winter, w/o the snow, but the same frigid temps !

I'll be sure and think of you when I'm driving to work tomorrow with the sunroof open and both windows down. :P -- kai Free Compean and Ramos http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/46 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 11 February 2007 17:33, Rajko M. wrote:

Tom made some mistakes that he didn't know about, like including Factory repository that is pre-alpha,

I only glanced at a few posts on this thread, but, has anyone mentioned that the word "factory" does not carry any notions of extreme alpha status? Has the suggestion beemn made to change the name of the directory, so the same mistake is not repeated? The disclaimers are just that, they are everywhere these days, so most of us tend to skip them, no?

to install one package, but then you get all in that repository in your Software Management, and from there it is easy to make another mistake and update application to some pre-alpha code.

BTW, giving opinion about openSUSE as Mandriva user is IMHO somewhat displaced on this list.

-- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 12:07 +0100, Anders Norrbring wrote:

kanenas skrev:

...

On Sunday 11 February 2007 17:33, Rajko M. wrote:

...

Tom made some mistakes that he didn't know about, like including Factory repository that is pre-alpha,

I only glanced at a few posts on this thread, but, has anyone mentioned that the word "factory" does not carry any notions of extreme alpha status? Has the suggestion beemn made to change the name of the directory, so the same mistake is not repeated? The disclaimers are just that, they are everywhere these days, so most of us tend to skip them, no?

No, we don't. At least not if we're not sure of what we're doing... A popular abbreviation is 'RTFM'.

You also get a big fat warning when you add Factory as an installation source stating that it is ALPHA software. But I guess that's only another dialog box that's there for users to ignore :-) Cheers, Magnus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

* Billie Erin Walsh [03-06-07 10:08]:

Actually, when I added it to my install list I DID NOT get any warning message. Had to learn the hard way. Now I'm a tiny bit smarter. Life is a learning experience. Every time I blow up SuSE I learn a little something.

Then, just perhaps, the subject temperature might be adjusted to indicate a probable relation to operator error rather than a direct condemnation of the distro ???? :^) After all, well *all* have these kind of problems resulting from quick fingers, lack of knowledge, haste, distraction, ..... :^) -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 OpenSUSE Linux http://en.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sun February 11 2007 7:16 pm, Bryan S. Tyson scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:

On Sunday 11 February 2007 11:32, Tom Horsley wrote:

...

My experience with 10.2 has been just as full of update problems, and I haven't even done anything remotely weird with packman repos or anything. All I did was install from the DVD iso, pick most optional packages to install, then occasionally try to run updates.

I'd like to see concerted attention and effort applied to creating a working package system for opensuse. This is so fundamental, I can't understand why it is taking so long to solve. Are all the developers preoccupied with compiz and beagle and new menu styles? In its present condition, opensuse is unusable in my opinion.

How so, I'd like to hear particulars. As many have written about their roll out on differing hardware w/o problems.. I am in the midst of a network wide roll out here, but it's not as great as others. OTH I have also installed or given Suse boxes to folks who have managed w/ little to no hand-holding , to get it up and running w/ the multimedia working and w/ DVD watching installed should they want it. In my net we don't need it, but I found , surprisingly that a lot of the kind of Advert DVDs folks send, seem to play just fine w/ nothing added from anywhere except the Boxed DVD. I guess anyone could do that if they wanted to. Why they prefer discs that attempt to circumvent a user watching it except on their pre approved devices is anyones guess. I know we had DVDs on the computer long before we ever bought any for playing movies and whatever. OF course the various Playstations would play them, but that is another story altogether, and about as relevant on this list as your posting from another Distro. In case you missed it, this list is intended mainly to assist folks in getting their Suse version up and running. Did you have a question as to why Suse 10.2 isn't running on your system? -- j -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org