[opensuse] boot options not accessible any more
I have just installed win 8 in my lenovo b590, uefi enabled. I would like to install opensuse too, but i cannot access boot options any more. The system seems to bypass keyboard, until booting to win 8. Pressing f1, f2, f8, triggers no actions. Any hints? thank you paolo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-10 10:24 (GMT+0200) Pol (Admin) composed:
I have just installed win 8 in my lenovo b590, uefi enabled.
I would like to install opensuse too, but i cannot access boot options any more. The system seems to bypass keyboard, until booting to win 8.
Pressing f1, f2, f8, triggers no actions.
Any hints?
If any of those keys are what the manual says to do, try emptying the BIOS savings, either according to TFM's explanation of the process, or by temporary battery removal, either of which should force access to the BIOS on next boot attempt. If the warranty hasn't expired, try calling on Lenovo support. If it has an empty OM drive, try booting with it non-empty, both with a rightside up disc, and an upside down disc, and try again. If it has a disc in now, take it out and try again. If it has a PS/2 keyboard port you are using, try a USB keyboard. If it has a PS/2 port you are not using, try a PS/2 keyboard. If it has a PS/2 keyboard port and a PS/2 mouse port, and a PS/2 keyboard is in the mouse port, move it to the keyboard port. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 10/07/2014 10:55, Felix Miata a écrit : If it has a disc in
now, take it out and try again.
oh, yes, removing the disk should do the job :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 07/10/2014 04:59 AM, jdd pecked at the keyboard and wrote:
You're missing the point. When the system is turned on the user has no access to the system until the login screen. I had this issue with my laptop recently purchased. Just one more try my Microsoft to stop people from using linux. To the OP search with your search engine of choice on how to access the bios of your brand and model and you will find out what magic key combo is needed to get to the boot settings. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
i have removed then re-inserted the mattery. No boot access at f1, f2 f8 (i remember f1 or f8 displayed the bios info) I have removed the disk and started my laptop. The bios starts automatically, but a very small version of it, only displaying possible boots from windows (strangely, since no disk could be found) atapi cd, or usb flash disk. Is it possible that windows, during its installation (that was carried out automatically, probably via internet, as i have started my laptop) flashed the rom, so that the bios start is now dependend on the windows installation? By the way, both booting suse from usb stick and from the cd (ho hard disk inside) freeze at 'loading the initrd' Any idea why the initrd cannot be loaded? thank you paolo On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> wrote:
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 10/07/2014 14:10, Pol (Admin) a écrit :
isn't the kind of device with small ssd included, may be not removable?
never seen so, hope it's not
so, you have had an initial linux menu? else, I don't see other way than asking vendor (you may say you want an other windows version :-) did you look at the manual, just in case? jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 10/07/2014 14:22, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
But there should be a function to erase that table.
AFAIK, the table is on disk, not on BIOS jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-10 14:34, jdd wrote:
There is no BIOS. There is a table in non volatile memory in the UEFI, not on disk. It is calculated from data found on disk, but the table is in the firmware area. And, regarding the OP problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uefi#Firmware_issues +++··························· Following the release of Windows 8 in late-2012, it was discovered that certain Lenovo computer models with secure boot had firmware that was hard-coded to only allow executables named "Windows Boot Manager" or "Red Hat Enterprise Linux" to load, regardless of any other setting.[99] Other issues were encountered by several Toshiba laptop models with secure boot that were missing certain certificates required for its proper operation.[98] ···························++- I have read posts in the forum on how to overcome this. Basically, you need to fool the UEFI by placing in the UEFI partition files that claim to be Windows, but in fact boot Linux grub, and this boots Windows only when required. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 2014-07-10 15:06 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
AFAIK, the table is on disk, not on BIOS
There is no BIOS.
Sure there is. There has to be some sort of "basic" (input/output) system in firmware for anything at all to display and to receive and react to user input when powered up. Without a basic system in firmware there would be no way for the computer to start. It just has a new name, and works in a more sophisticated way than a legacy BIOS, on UEFI systems. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-10 15:21, Felix Miata wrote:
Yes, but the official current name is UEFI, no longer BIOS. Even if it includes the BIOS functionality. We have to get used to that fact, because it has severe implications. One of these, is that the UEFI has a table in its own memory (flash?) of what it may boot or not, that it has bugs, and that it has intentional blocks, like this case with Lenovo, according to the Wikipedia. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On Thu 10 Jul 2014 03:33:33 PM CDT, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I wouldn't say severe, maybe a pain on some systems. Do you have any UEFI capable machines? I currently have five systems booting with UEFI (and all use btrfs too...), two are multiboot. HP ProBook 4525s, oldest system with UEFI, gummiboot and openSUSE 13.1 works fine sofar. HP ProBook 4430s, dual boot with windows 7/openSUSE 13.1, at present I press the F9 key to get to the efi browser and boot openSUSE, else it boots directly to windows 7. Needs further work. HP 2000, dual boot windows 8.1/openSUSE 13.1, secure boot enabled, no issues multibooting. HP ProBook 4440s, openSUSE 13.1, secure boot enabled, no issues. HP ProBook 4440s, SLED, secure boot enabled, no issues. BTW, all the HP's say press F10 for BIOS....
Don't believe everything you read on the internet ;) If you disable secure boot, you can boot into an efi shell and have a look at the efi vars and change stuff (never done this though). -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64) 3.10.1 Kernel 3.11.10-17-desktop up 2 days 11:49, 4 users, load average: 0.18, 0.10, 0.13 CPU Intel® B840@1.9GHz | GPU Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-10 16:08, Malcolm wrote:
On Thu 10 Jul 2014 03:33:33 PM CDT, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Sorry, I did not mean severe in the meaning of "bad", but as "important". Like using a separate, dedicated boot partition, and a different partitioning system. There are many new features. This needs learning about a loaf of new booting issues. For instance, you could make do without grub, and use instead a much simpler kernel loader. You'd choose the system to boot from a uefi menu, prior to booting any disk.
BTW, all the HP's say press F10 for BIOS....
Well, customs die hard ;-)
Several places report the same issue on Lenovos.
If you disable secure boot, you can boot into an efi shell and have a look at the efi vars and change stuff (never done this though).
And apparently you can also install your own uefi applications, too, and "bios" additions. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On Thu 10 Jul 2014 08:39:25 PM CDT, Carlos E. R. wrote:
And apparently you can also install your own uefi applications, too, and "bios" additions.
Yes, I use a custom logo (the geeko or course ;) ) via an HP efi logo application. It doesn't work however when secure booting on the 4440s :( -- Cheers Malcolm °¿° SUSE Knowledge Partner (Linux Counter #276890) openSUSE 13.1 (Bottle) (x86_64) 3.10.1 Kernel 3.11.10-17-desktop up 2 days 18:08, 4 users, load average: 0.17, 0.14, 0.14 CPU Intel® B840@1.9GHz | GPU Intel® Sandybridge Mobile -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-10 15:33 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2014-07-10 15:06 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
There is no BIOS.
Sure there is. There has to be some sort of "basic" (input/output) system in firmware for anything at all to display and to receive and
Yes, but the official current name is UEFI, no longer BIOS. Even if it includes the BIOS functionality.
Who cares that the name is new, as I wrote and you didn't bother to quote? Without any such basics the computer is useless. It does what it does, whatever you call it, which is perform the Basic Input/Output (System) that does whatever is necessary for an installed operationg system to start and make the computer useful. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 10/07/2014 15:06, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
There is no BIOS.
all the PC I've seen had a normal bios in excess to uefi
true, but I have had such problem and couldn't solve the problem, however with normal bios this computer could boot linux perfectly jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-10 15:26, jdd wrote:
It is rather UEFI with BIOS functionality included. Or a bios mode.
Yes, because in BIOS mode the bios can not check what system it is booting, so it can not impede Linux from booting. It just loads and runs the first sector in the hard disk, whatever it has... even a virus. Have a look here: <http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=489895> +++·······································
It's a very interesting solution that can also be found here: 'Managing EFI Boot Loaders for Linux: EFI Boot Loader Installation' (http://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/installation.html) Anyway I too have a Lenovo notebook (Thinkpad Edge E330), but I have to say that it has a very good UEFI implementation. When I install Linux, Grub2 is automatically set as the default entry in the UEFI firmware ... ;-) ·······································++- And I have see several similar problems and solutions reported there. In this case, the OP had managed to install openSUSE, but could not boot it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
I have just asked to the lenovo support. They instructed me to how to modify the uefi from windows. In fact, the original 'bios' screen can be recovered from windows 8.0. Here is the command sequence (translated from italian, so probably not just the same words have been used in the english version) 1. From the 'start' page: move your pointer to the right screen border and click on 'Settings' 2. Edit settings 3. General 4. Restart now 5. Troubleshooting 6. Advanced options 7. UEFI firmware setting 8. restart The bios/uefi screen shows up (the same i used to get by pressing f1) Here, in the Security section', i have disabled secure boot. Is that equivalent to disabling uefi? Then in the Startup '' section, chose 'Legacy only' Also disabled the 'USB UEFI BIOS support, in the section 'Config'. (don't know if it was necessary) save and exit the slaptop restarts Opensuse installation works! At this stage, should i enable 'boot from the Mbr' or 'boot from /' to be able to have the choice to boot linux or win, at the boot? By the way, any information page to wisely partitioning my disk? (e.g. lenovo has 4gb ram; the swap partition proposed by the opensuse installation disc is only 2 gb. Should i enalarge the swap area to allow 'suspending to ram'? Thank you paolo On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Pol (Admin) <xtekhne@gmail.com> wrote:
Le 10/07/2014 17:37, Pol (Admin) a écrit :
One more thing: Is it safe to reset the original uefi set up, after my opensuse installation?
&as you know how to revert, should be ;-)
no, secure boot is one of the uefi options, supported by openSUSE, but probably unnecessary (if windows do not ask for it)
Then in the Startup '' section, chose 'Legacy only'
this is the usefull option
Also disabled the 'USB UEFI BIOS support, in the section 'Config'. (don't know if it was necessary)
don't know
At this stage, should i enable 'boot from the Mbr' or 'boot from /' to be able to have the choice to boot linux or win, at the boot?
always better to enable boot from /, this makes openSUSE intervening less and disturbing less windows
do 6 Gb as was said by Carlos. do not hurt. Keep some room for windows, that is do not shrink the windows partition on max, give 15Gb for openSUSE / and the rest for /home. Linux can still read and write on the windows partition, the other way round is tricky jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-10 16:52, Pol (Admin) wrote:
No. It is "disable secure boot", which is one of the features added by uefi.
Then in the Startup '' section, chose 'Legacy only'
This means, I think, boot in bios mode. Warning: this causes openSUSE install DVD to boot in a different mode, bios mode, and then the already installed Windows in EUFI mode might refuse to boot. Please verify this before proceeding.
For suspending to ram, swap is irrelevant. For suspending to disk, you need at least as much as ram, and I would add 50% more, making a total of 6 GB swap. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On July 10, 2014 5:41:07 PM EDT, Dirk Gently <dirk.gently00@gmail.com> wrote:
And escape. I had a computer a couple weeks ago that required a ps/2 keyboard to access the bios startup stuff, but I think it was older. Definitely a 1u pizza box server so they have older tech regardless. It was running fedora and once booted I could use a usb keyboard. Good luck Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-07-11 15:37, Greg Freemyer wrote:
And escape.
I had a computer a couple weeks ago that required a ps/2 keyboard to access the bios startup stuff, but I think it was older. Definitely a 1u pizza box server so they have older tech regardless. It was running fedora and once booted I could use a usb keyboard.
It is not the case. This is a computer, with UEFI, that once Windows is installed, it intentionally disables accessing the UEFI config, aka BIOS if you prefer. Instead, Windows takes control and you access the configuration from inside Windows. This, I understand, is an optional UEFI capability. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
participants (8)
-
Carlos E. R.
-
Dirk Gently
-
Felix Miata
-
Greg Freemyer
-
jdd
-
Ken Schneider - openSUSE
-
Malcolm
-
Pol (Admin)