I just ran YOU and was presented with one update source, the ftp.suse.com site. Where did all the update mirrors go? I noticed that /var/lib/YaST2/you/youservers is also now a zero-byte file. Anyone else seeing this? -- _________________________________________________________ A Message From... L. Mark Stone Reliable Networks of Maine, LLC "We manage your network so you can manage your business" 477 Congress Street Portland, ME 04101 Tel: (207) 772-5678 Web: http://www.rnome.com This email was sent from Reliable Networks of Maine LLC. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that you were not intended to receive it, please delete it and notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.
Tirsdag 07 mars 2006 22:40, skrev L. Mark Stone:
I just ran YOU and was presented with one update source, the ftp.suse.com site. Where did all the update mirrors go?
I noticed that /var/lib/YaST2/you/youservers is also now a zero-byte file.
Anyone else seeing this?
Yes, me to. I just added gwdg and belnet, myself. Working sofar. Bjørn
On Tuesday, March 7, 2006 16:47, Bjørn Lie wrote:
Tirsdag 07 mars 2006 22:40, skrev L. Mark Stone:
I just ran YOU and was presented with one update source, the ftp.suse.com site. Where did all the update mirrors go?
I noticed that /var/lib/YaST2/you/youservers is also now a zero-byte file.
Anyone else seeing this?
Yes, me to.
I just added gwdg and belnet, myself. Working sofar.
Hi Bjørn, What are the exact URLs you used? I haven't been able to find that documented anywhere yet? Thanks, Mark -- _________________________________________________________ A Message From... L. Mark Stone Reliable Networks of Maine, LLC "We manage your network so you can manage your business" 477 Congress Street Portland, ME 04101 Tel: (207) 772-5678 Web: http://www.rnome.com This email was sent from Reliable Networks of Maine LLC. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect that you were not intended to receive it, please delete it and notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 23:07, L. Mark Stone wrote:
What are the exact URLs you used? I haven't been able to find that documented anywhere yet?
http://ftp.gwdg.de/linux/suse/ftp.suse.com/suse for example, will work -- Certified: Yes. Certifiable: of course! jabberID: anders@rydsbo.net
Tirsdag 07 mars 2006 23:23, skrev Anders Johansson:
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 23:07, L. Mark Stone wrote:
What are the exact URLs you used? I haven't been able to find that documented anywhere yet?
http://ftp.gwdg.de/linux/suse/ftp.suse.com/suse
for example, will work
-- Certified: Yes. Certifiable: of course! jabberID: anders@rydsbo.net
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 22:47, Bjørn Lie wrote:
Tirsdag 07 mars 2006 22:40, skrev L. Mark Stone:
I noticed that /var/lib/YaST2/you/youservers is also now a zero-byte file. Anyone else seeing this?
Yes, me to. I just added gwdg and belnet, myself. Working sofar.
Thanks for the URL, but these are just mirrors, as long as ftp.suse.com is down they will not provide any new updates and YOU / susewatcher will tell "no updates availabe" and might create a wrong sense of security... I think this is the reason why YOU creates an empty /etc/youservers in the case ftp.suse.com is unavailable. Malte
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 21:35, Malte Gell wrote:
Thanks for the URL, but these are just mirrors, as long as ftp.suse.com is down they will not provide any new updates
True
and YOU / susewatcher will tell "no updates availabe" and might create a wrong sense of security...
When susewatcher fails to connect, it doesn't report "no updates available" it reports "failed to connect" and turns the little green dot yellow. And your sense of security is really no different than what you enjoy a day or two *before* these updates are announced and released, right? Please try to keep the expected occasional 'hiccup' in the propagation of this service in perspective. It is comparable to distributing DNS updates, no? Sometimes these things take more time than others.
I think this is the reason why YOU creates an empty /etc/youservers in the case ftp.suse.com is unavailable.
I think it's because it can't write a current list of prospective update servers when a connection attempt fails, so it opts to clear the list out instead of potentially writing garbage or retaining stale data. regards, Carl
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 03:59, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 21:35, Malte Gell wrote:
and YOU / susewatcher will tell "no updates availabe" and might create a wrong sense of security...
When susewatcher fails to connect, it doesn't report "no updates available" it reports "failed to connect" and turns the little green dot yellow.
But we were talking about using mirror URLs for YOU/susewatcher manually put into /etc/youservers and in this case you do get a green dot creating a wrong sense of security. Of course, sooner or later the mirror will provide new patches, but this way one would be left unnoticed how long the main site was down. Finally, puting the user´s attention to a higher level from time to time might not be the worst thing ;-) Malte
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 22:32, Malte Gell wrote:
But we were talking about using mirror URLs for YOU/susewatcher manually put into /etc/youservers
Which is nothing unusual. I don't understand the upset, frankly. We've always had the ability from the main YOU menu to select or define alternative servers. When the regular one goes down for a bit, for whatever reason... software patches included <grin>... you try one or two others until you succeed. No big deal.
and in this case you do get a green dot creating a wrong sense of security.
Only if you misinterpret the meaning of the yellow dot. It doesn't mean you are missing out on updates, necessarily. It only means you were not able to connect and poll for the existence of applicable updates. There's a big difference. And, to the best of my knowledge, no one at SuSE now SUSE or Novell has *ever* promised 100% 365 x 24 x 7 delay-free YOU patch deployment. I don't even think it's reasonable to expect that (unless you're paying for it, of course.) I think the system works great and I'm extremely happy with it. If the recent 'hiccups' continue and become a trend then we 'make noise' and deal with it at that time. Meanwhile, IMHO, we should just move on to more interesting topics and refrain from baseless criticism. regards, Carl
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2006-03-08 at 04:32 +0100, Malte Gell wrote:
When susewatcher fails to connect, it doesn't report "no updates available" it reports "failed to connect" and turns the little green dot yellow.
But we were talking about using mirror URLs for YOU/susewatcher manually put into /etc/youservers and in this case you do get a green dot creating a wrong sense of security. Of course, sooner or later the mirror will provide new patches, but this way one would be left unnoticed how long the main site was down. Finally, puting the user´s attention to a higher level from time to time might not be the worst thing ;-)
There are two diferent problems here. One, is YOU getting the list of mirrors, and this is what is faling. If I remember correctly, this is done by http, and from a diferent SuSE server (the web page). Two, is getting the patches; trying to get them from the ftp.suse site often fails because the server is relatively small and can't handle so many requests: that's why they tell you to use mirrors instead. So, manually entering a mirror works. In fact, I haven't noticed the problem. - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFEDv6atTMYHG2NR9URAtptAJ41hda3uaEJrLP2r9MwVE9Tb76iPgCfbcls 1Xf0QsthysLZltS7J5IwLck= =TFDS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 21:59 -0500, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 21:35, Malte Gell wrote:
Thanks for the URL, but these are just mirrors, as long as ftp.suse.com is down they will not provide any new updates
True
and YOU / susewatcher will tell "no updates availabe" and might create a wrong sense of security...
When susewatcher fails to connect, it doesn't report "no updates available" it reports "failed to connect" and turns the little green dot yellow. And your sense of security is really no different than what you enjoy a day or two *before* these updates are announced and released, right?
I thought that yellow meant a non-security related patch was available, red a security related patch and green was no patches available. I clicked on the "yellow" button just now andwhat I got was a non-security patch: wnck (Window Navigation Construction Kit library).
Please try to keep the expected occasional 'hiccup' in the propagation of this service in perspective. It is comparable to distributing DNS updates, no? Sometimes these things take more time than others.
I think this is the reason why YOU creates an empty /etc/youservers in the case ftp.suse.com is unavailable.
I think it's because it can't write a current list of prospective update servers when a connection attempt fails, so it opts to clear the list out instead of potentially writing garbage or retaining stale data.
For what ever reason, the thinking is beyond me, as I can see reasons for not touching the file at all when it would fail to connect.
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:47, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 21:59 -0500, Carl Hartung wrote:
When susewatcher fails to connect, it doesn't report "no updates available" it reports "failed to connect" and turns the little green dot yellow. And your sense of security is really no different than what you enjoy a day or two *before* these updates are announced and released, right?
I thought that yellow meant a non-security related patch was available, red a security related patch and green was no patches available.
You must interpret my words *in context*, Mike, not in a vacuum. In the context of this thread yellow was reporting a failure to connect. If it can't connect, it won't know that any new patches are available, regardless of security level. It turns the dot yellow these circumstances, as well. You are otherwise correct in your interpretation of the color scheme.
I think it's because it can't write a current list of prospective update servers when a connection attempt fails, so it opts to clear the list out instead of potentially writing garbage or retaining stale data.
For what ever reason, the thinking is beyond me, as I can see reasons for not touching the file at all when it would fail to connect.
Every time I've tried to second-guess the developers at SUSE, I've discovered they know a thing or two more about what they're trying to accomplish than I do. I can see reasons for both, but this thread addresses what *is*... right now, it appears to clear out the list in anticipation of receiving current data... nothing wrong with that. regards, Carl
On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 07:56 -0500, Carl Hartung wrote:
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:47, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 21:59 -0500, Carl Hartung wrote:
When susewatcher fails to connect, it doesn't report "no updates available" it reports "failed to connect" and turns the little green dot yellow. And your sense of security is really no different than what you enjoy a day or two *before* these updates are announced and released, right?
I thought that yellow meant a non-security related patch was available, red a security related patch and green was no patches available.
You must interpret my words *in context*, Mike, not in a vacuum. In the context of this thread yellow was reporting a failure to connect. If it can't connect, it won't know that any new patches are available, regardless of security level. It turns the dot yellow these circumstances, as well. You are otherwise correct in your interpretation of the color scheme.
The problem is more along the lines of not recalling when the dot was yellow and I could not connect. I cannot dispute you, I just cannot off hand confirm what you say in my mind.
I think it's because it can't write a current list of prospective update servers when a connection attempt fails, so it opts to clear the list out instead of potentially writing garbage or retaining stale data.
For what ever reason, the thinking is beyond me, as I can see reasons for not touching the file at all when it would fail to connect.
Every time I've tried to second-guess the developers at SUSE, I've discovered they know a thing or two more about what they're trying to accomplish than I do. I can see reasons for both, but this thread addresses what *is*... right now, it appears to clear out the list in anticipation of receiving current data... nothing wrong with that.
Agreed, nothing wrong with that.
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 03:35, Malte Gell wrote:
Thanks for the URL, but these are just mirrors, as long as ftp.suse.com is down they will not provide any new updates and YOU / susewatcher will tell "no updates availabe" and might create a wrong sense of security... I think this is the reason why YOU creates an empty /etc/youservers in the case ftp.suse.com is unavailable.
Of course not. Why would it deny access to old patches just because the new ones might not be available? The openssh patch is just as valid even though a newer patch for man or openoffice is unavailable -- Certified: Yes. Certifiable: of course! jabberID: anders@rydsbo.net
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 22:40, L. Mark Stone wrote:
I just ran YOU and was presented with one update source, the ftp.suse.com site. Where did all the update mirrors go?
I noticed that /var/lib/YaST2/you/youservers is also now a zero-byte file.
It's been reported and is being worked on. Not sure what happened, but hopefully it won't take too long to fix. In the mean time, just adding your favourite mirror server manually will work -- Certified: Yes. Certifiable: of course! jabberID: anders@rydsbo.net
On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 23:19 +0100, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Tuesday 07 March 2006 22:40, L. Mark Stone wrote:
I just ran YOU and was presented with one update source, the ftp.suse.com site. Where did all the update mirrors go?
I noticed that /var/lib/YaST2/you/youservers is also now a zero-byte file.
It's been reported and is being worked on. Not sure what happened, but hopefully it won't take too long to fix. In the mean time, just adding your favourite mirror server manually will work
My youservers file is intact 425 bytes 6 server entries, 5 NA one in Portugal. Is this a problem outside of North America?
Mike McMullin wrote:
On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 23:19 +0100, Anders Johansson wrote:
It's been reported and is being worked on. Not sure what happened, but hopefully it won't take too long to fix. In the mean time, just adding your favourite mirror server manually will work
My youservers file is intact 425 bytes 6 server entries, 5 NA one in Portugal. Is this a problem outside of North America?
I am in the Philippines, and it quit working this am here. Only returns ftp.suse.com, but even that doesn't work, comes back with joe@jmorris:~> online_update -k -s ERROR(Media:error)[FTP response reading failed] -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871
On 07 March 2006 16:40, L. Mark Stone wrote:
I just ran YOU and was presented with one update source, the ftp.suse.com site. Where did all the update mirrors go?
A week ago, or so, I lost my list also. Was given 5 I've not seen before. Lost anl in chicago that I've used for years. Makes me mad. I assumed it's Novell getting pushy.
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 00:02, Thomas G Land wrote:
I assumed it's Novell getting pushy.
I'd love to hear the logic behind this, I really would. On the off chance there actually is some, that is The script gives you URLs based on geography. When you configure your location in YaST, you are indirectly configuring where your YOU servers will be, since YaST will send this location to the suseservers.cgi script so you can get mirror servers that are close to you geographically. If your list changed, then there are a few things that could have happened: either there were new servers popping up that were closer to you, or you misconfigured your location in YaST -- Certified: Yes. Certifiable: of course! jabberID: anders@rydsbo.net
On 07 March 2006 18:19, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 00:02, Thomas G Land wrote:
I assumed it's Novell getting pushy.
I'd love to hear the logic behind this, I really would. On the off chance there actually is some, that is
Hi Anders Please lets not get personal or assume everyones experiences are like our own. I agree I should leave my value judgement out. The logic comes from my and my company's experiences of doing business with Novell. I was a CNA of our system for 4.5 years.
The script gives you URLs based on geography. When you configure your location in YaST, you are indirectly configuring where your YOU servers will be, since YaST will send this location to the suseservers.cgi script so you can get mirror servers that are close to you geographically. If your list changed, then there are a few things that could have happened: either there were new servers popping up that were closer to you, or you misconfigured your location in YaST
While this may be true. It's not relevant here. System is Suse retail 10.0 Default install and suse YOU updates. Chicago is the closest to me. The new sites offered are mostly on the west usa coast. I don't tweak or create config files. Have no idea why update sites disappeared. The fact is they did. Again I assume its something that was changed in, or by the, the last week or so updates. Tom PS possible relevant Konqueror and kmail both have started crashing a lot in the last week. PPS I have always looked forward to your posts over the years and was very happy you returned.
On Wednesday 08 March 2006 00:59, Thomas G Land wrote:
While this may be true. It's not relevant here. System is Suse retail 10.0 Default install and suse YOU updates. Chicago is the closest to me. The new sites offered are mostly on the west usa coast. I don't tweak or create config files. Have no idea why update sites disappeared. The fact is they did.
That is odd, especially given that the mirror server in question is still up and running, and listed on the Novell mirror page at http://www.novell.com/products/suselinux/downloads/ftp/int_mirrors.html I don't know, maybe the .gov site requested being taken off the automatic list, maybe there's a bug in the suseservers script, or maybe there was human error involved.
Again I assume its something that was changed in, or by the, the last week or so updates.
Well, the script is supposed to give you the sites closest to you. You could always file a bug for it in bugzilla.novell.com But the script isn't a forcing matter. You can always set YAST2_LOADFTPSERVER to "no" in /etc/sysconfig/onlineupdate and put your own favourite in /etc/youservers
PS possible relevant Konqueror and kmail both have started crashing a lot in the last week.
That's annoying, but I don't see it as connected. The list is fetched by a simple http request by yast, and shouldn't be affected by strangeness in KDE
PPS I have always looked forward to your posts over the years and was very happy you returned.
Thank you -- Certified: Yes. Certifiable: of course! jabberID: anders@rydsbo.net
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2006-03-08 at 01:29 +0100, Anders Johansson wrote:
Well, the script is supposed to give you the sites closest to you. You could always file a bug for it in bugzilla.novell.com
I understood it works simply from the time zone configured for the system. I read about it some time ago, but I can't remember where. - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFEDj2QtTMYHG2NR9URAo/AAJ9/1f3F8sx8XFULCsiSB/jU0nsqigCff7YM LAVwkfJERZ7jUsKJ/S6GQ+g= =hoYR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (9)
-
Anders Johansson -
Bjørn Lie -
Carl Hartung -
Carlos E. R. -
Joe Morris (NTM) -
L. Mark Stone -
Malte Gell -
Mike McMullin -
Thomas G Land