[opensuse] Why does OpenSUSE Tumbleweed change XFCE?
Hello, I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes). On both machines after the last zypper ref/dup/up cycle the complete XFCE desktop was changed, many of the settings were lost and the way how one can change e.g. the desktop background was changed in a way that it is more inconvenient. I do know that XFCE per se did not change, because on another Laptop with Ubuntu 18.04 the XFCE desktop and settings were the same after the last updates. So as an example: the conventient way to set XFCE background on Ubuntu was and is like shown in ConvenientDesktopSet.jpg The new way from SuSE Tumbleweed (last zypper ref/dup/up cycle yesterday, uname says "...5.2.10-1-default #1 SMP Sun Aug 25 17:33:34 UTC 2019..." ) is seen in warumallesandersSuSETumble_1.jpg warumallesandersSuSETumble_2.jpg : now you need 2 sub-windows for e.g. setting the background colors and you cannot set colors with decimal numbers for RGB or HSV, you have to do it in hex. :-/ I was moving to XFCE since KDE changed the way of virtual workspaces in an unusable manner, and now someone is starting to mess up XFCE. <rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off> :-( And if it needs a change: Why not putting the "predefined color section" into the color selection window of ConvenientDesktopSet.jpg ? BR
unacceptable, rude and inexcusable posting 433k to all on the list. follow the list rules EVEN WHEN RANTING! ! * Markus Egg <Markus.Egg@a1.net> [08-31-19 09:43]:
Hello,
I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).
On both machines after the last zypper ref/dup/up cycle the complete XFCE desktop was changed, many of the settings were lost and the way how one can change e.g. the desktop background was changed in a way that it is more inconvenient.
I do know that XFCE per se did not change, because on another Laptop with Ubuntu 18.04 the XFCE desktop and settings were the same after the last updates.
So as an example: the conventient way to set XFCE background on Ubuntu was and is like shown in ConvenientDesktopSet.jpg
The new way from SuSE Tumbleweed (last zypper ref/dup/up cycle yesterday, uname says "...5.2.10-1-default #1 SMP Sun Aug 25 17:33:34 UTC 2019..." ) is seen in warumallesandersSuSETumble_1.jpg warumallesandersSuSETumble_2.jpg : now you need 2 sub-windows for e.g. setting the background colors and you cannot set colors with decimal numbers for RGB or HSV, you have to do it in hex. :-/
I was moving to XFCE since KDE changed the way of virtual workspaces in an unusable manner, and now someone is starting to mess up XFCE. <rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off> :-(
And if it needs a change: Why not putting the "predefined color section" into the color selection window of ConvenientDesktopSet.jpg ?
BR
-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 31/08/2019 15.41, Markus Egg wrote:
So as an example: the conventient way to set XFCE background on Ubuntu was and is like shown in ConvenientDesktopSet.jpg
Please, instead of attaching photos, upload them to susepaste.org, then post the links here. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Am 31.08.19 um 17:06 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 31/08/2019 15.41, Markus Egg wrote:
So as an example: the conventient way to set XFCE background on Ubuntu was and is like shown in ConvenientDesktopSet.jpg
Please, instead of attaching photos, upload them to susepaste.org, then post the links here.
Sorry for that one and thanks for information. Shall I delete the previous post (can I?) and repost? BR -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/09/2019 15.37, Markus Egg wrote:
Am 31.08.19 um 17:06 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 31/08/2019 15.41, Markus Egg wrote:
So as an example: the conventient way to set XFCE background on Ubuntu was and is like shown in ConvenientDesktopSet.jpg
Please, instead of attaching photos, upload them to susepaste.org, then post the links here.
Sorry for that one and thanks for information. Shall I delete the previous post (can I?) and repost?
Sorry, my fault. I should have said "next time, please..." -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:41:44 +0200 Markus Egg <Markus.Egg@a1.net> wrote:
I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).
<rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off> :-(
You asked for bleeding edge by running TW. If you prefer stability, run Leap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> [08-31-19 11:38]:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:41:44 +0200 Markus Egg <Markus.Egg@a1.net> wrote:
I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).
<rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off> :-(
You asked for bleeding edge by running TW. If you prefer stability, run Leap.
while the "perception" of "stability" is as you state, it is undeserved. Tumbleweed has performed admirably for many years for me and I have seen many more posts of problems related to "stability" and/or expectations of Leap versions. "Stability" appears more related to the user's choice of repositories and inexperience than the standard repo's application offerings. I cannot remember the last system hang I experienced. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 31/08/2019 20.24, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Dave Howorth <> [08-31-19 11:38]:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:41:44 +0200 Markus Egg <> wrote:
I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).
<rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off> :-(
You asked for bleeding edge by running TW. If you prefer stability, run Leap.
while the "perception" of "stability" is as you state, it is undeserved. Tumbleweed has performed admirably for many years for me and I have seen many more posts of problems related to "stability" and/or expectations of Leap versions.
"Stability" appears more related to the user's choice of repositories and inexperience than the standard repo's application offerings. I cannot remember the last system hang I experienced.
Stability is not only "not hanging" (entire machine or a part of it), but about configuration of "things" not changing. It is about things that worked not being changed and as a consequence a feature not working, or the thing not working entirely - either because of breakage or because it needs adapting the configuration. TW doesn't have that stability, by definition. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 21:00:37 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 31/08/2019 20.24, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Dave Howorth <> [08-31-19 11:38]:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:41:44 +0200 Markus Egg <> wrote:
I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).
<rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off> :-(
You asked for bleeding edge by running TW. If you prefer stability, run Leap.
while the "perception" of "stability" is as you state, it is undeserved. Tumbleweed has performed admirably for many years for me and I have seen many more posts of problems related to "stability" and/or expectations of Leap versions.
"Stability" appears more related to the user's choice of repositories and inexperience than the standard repo's application offerings. I cannot remember the last system hang I experienced.
Stability is not only "not hanging" (entire machine or a part of it), but about configuration of "things" not changing. It is about things that worked not being changed and as a consequence a feature not working, or the thing not working entirely - either because of breakage or because it needs adapting the configuration.
TW doesn't have that stability, by definition.
Carlos is more correct than Patrick on this occasion. I was specifically meaning the changed version that the OP referred to. Wouldn't happen on Leap. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [08-31-19 15:01]:
On 31/08/2019 20.24, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Dave Howorth <> [08-31-19 11:38]:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019 15:41:44 +0200 Markus Egg <> wrote:
I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).
<rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off> :-(
You asked for bleeding edge by running TW. If you prefer stability, run Leap.
while the "perception" of "stability" is as you state, it is undeserved. Tumbleweed has performed admirably for many years for me and I have seen many more posts of problems related to "stability" and/or expectations of Leap versions.
"Stability" appears more related to the user's choice of repositories and inexperience than the standard repo's application offerings. I cannot remember the last system hang I experienced.
Stability is not only "not hanging" (entire machine or a part of it), but about configuration of "things" not changing. It is about things that worked not being changed and as a consequence a feature not working, or the thing not working entirely - either because of breakage or because it needs adapting the configuration.
agreed
TW doesn't have that stability, by definition.
but does exhibit it regardless of definition. evidenced by the many more problems presented here for Leap version vs Tumbleweed. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/31/2019 08:41 AM, Markus Egg wrote:
I was moving to XFCE since KDE changed the way of virtual workspaces in an unusable manner, and now someone is starting to mess up XFCE.
Add the KDE3 repo and install it. It has always been more capable than XFCE, hasn't changed in 10 years, and the openSUSE team has the absolute best kept KDE3 desktop on the planet. The only drawback is you don't want to use konqueror as a WEB BROWSER (I never did anyway). Other than that, it is an absolute dream, boots from OFF to full desktop in 11.7 secs, and runs in 285k of RAM. Even on what is considered an "Old" laptop today, KDE3 will be blistering fast. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
David C. Rankin composed on 2019-09-01 01:25 (UTC-0400):
Markus Egg wrote:
Add the KDE3 repo and install it. It has always been more capable than XFCE, hasn't changed in 10 years, and the openSUSE team has the absolute best kept KDE3 desktop on the planet. The only drawback is...
There's another drawback. You reported it in 42.2. It's still seriously annoying as of 15.1: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852 -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/01/2019 01:16 AM, Felix Miata wrote:
David C. Rankin composed on 2019-09-01 01:25 (UTC-0400):
Markus Egg wrote:
Add the KDE3 repo and install it. It has always been more capable than XFCE, hasn't changed in 10 years, and the openSUSE team has the absolute best kept KDE3 desktop on the planet. The only drawback is...
There's another drawback. You reported it in 42.2. It's still seriously annoying as of 15.1: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852
I will take one or two known drawbacks any day compared to wasting 1-2 hours per-day collecting data, running diagnostics and writing bug reports :) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
David C. Rankin composed on 2019-09-02 02:55 (UTC-0500):
Felix Miata wrote:
David C. Rankin composed on 2019-09-01 01:25 (UTC-0400):
Add the KDE3 repo and install it. It has always been more capable than XFCE, hasn't changed in 10 years, and the openSUSE team has the absolute best kept KDE3 desktop on the planet. The only drawback is...
There's another drawback. You reported it in 42.2. It's still seriously annoying as of 15.1: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1047852
I will take one or two known drawbacks any day compared to wasting 1-2 hours per-day collecting data, running diagnostics and writing bug reports :)
Another, rather significant, still happening in TW 20190829: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1141391 -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Markus Egg wrote:
Hello,
I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).
On both machines after the last zypper ref/dup/up cycle the complete XFCE desktop was changed, many of the settings were lost and the way how one can change e.g. the desktop background was changed in a way that it is more inconvenient.
I do know that XFCE per se did not change, because on another Laptop with Ubuntu 18.04 the XFCE desktop and settings were the same after the last updates.
This is a completely unusable comparison. Tumbleweed is rolling release, and follows upstream. So if there is a new version of a package, it will be included sooner or later without (too much) further notice. This is the reason why one runs a rolling release. If you do not like it, don't use it. It *is* as easy as that. Ubuntu is *not* a rolling release distribution, and therefore no update will change the (major) version of installed software. Claiming XFCE has not changed because it's unchanged in Ubuntu is close to ridiculous IMHO. If that behavior (sticking with a release, in doubt backporting fixes) is what you want, use Leap, and NOT Tumbleweed.
<rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off>
Where did 'read about what you install before you do so' go? The change of XFCE from 4.12 to 4.14 was announced here on August 23. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 01.09.19 um 13:59 schrieb Peter Suetterlin:
Markus Egg wrote:
Hello,
I am running SuSE Tumbleweed on a desktop and on an older laptop (for test purposes).
On both machines after the last zypper ref/dup/up cycle the complete XFCE desktop was changed, many of the settings were lost and the way how one can change e.g. the desktop background was changed in a way that it is more inconvenient.
I do know that XFCE per se did not change, because on another Laptop with Ubuntu 18.04 the XFCE desktop and settings were the same after the last updates.
This is a completely unusable comparison. Tumbleweed is rolling release, and follows upstream. So if there is a new version of a package, it will be included sooner or later without (too much) further notice.
This is the reason why one runs a rolling release. If you do not like it, don't use it. It *is* as easy as that.
Ubuntu is *not* a rolling release distribution, and therefore no update will change the (major) version of installed software. Claiming XFCE has not changed because it's unchanged in Ubuntu is close to ridiculous IMHO.
I do appreciate the rolling release approach. But that is not the topic here. I am adressing the rather useless changes regarding settings of XFCE. Like similar problems with KDE listed here before: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341143 These are tiny bits and pieces and not regarding stability directly, but the "it was usable before, why did you remove it"-feeling.
If that behavior (sticking with a release, in doubt backporting fixes) is what you want, use Leap, and NOT Tumbleweed.
<rant on> Where did the message of "never change a runnning machine" go? <rant off>
Where did 'read about what you install before you do so' go?
The change of XFCE from 4.12 to 4.14 was announced here on August 23.
I see, that I rather post this issue in one of the XFCE forums. BR -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
David C. Rankin -
Felix Miata -
Markus Egg -
Patrick Shanahan -
Peter Suetterlin