By accepting 'patent coverage', Novell are giving credence to FUD that users of Linux are in danger of being sued for patent violations. I am disgusted, I am changing distros, and I am sorry for the people who work at SuSE, so that's what I wrote: who are you to tell me I shouldn't? Andreas Hanke wrote:

Tony Pott schrieb:

...

To all the people at SuSE, I know this isn't your fault, and I'm sorry I have to stop using your excellent work. I'm sad to have to change to another distro, I've been a fanboy since SuSE 8.0, but this deal is just disgusting.

Ah, I see.

Nobody gets what "this" deal is about, but you already know that it forces you to stop using the distribution. Highly interesting.

Can you please read the announcement and point out which of the following prevents you from using the distribution:

Patent coverage Virtualization Virtualization Management Office Open XML Collaboration Framework Mono, OpenOffice and Samba

The mailinglist setup is right, this is SPAM. Use one of the existing "I have been a SUSE fanboy since 231847941 years and now switching to [A-Z]Ubuntu" threads. We already have enough of them. Just post "me too" into the other threads.

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On Saturday 04 November 2006 11:17, Andreas Hanke wrote:

...

By accepting 'patent coverage', Novell are giving credence to FUD that users of Linux are in danger of being sued for patent violations.

No, this all happens in your fantasy.

Well, they are implying that by offering patent protection exclusively to Novell customers. That's not precisely nice. But it seems that RHs marketing has just launched huge FUD campaign flaming the move, and that's not precisely nice either. -- // Janne --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

*The patent protection may violate the GPL on another count.* First, as Eben Moglen argues http://news.com.com/2061-10795_3-6132156.html If you make an agreement which requires you to pay a royalty to anybody for the right to distribute GPL software, you may not distribute it under the GPL. Section 7 of the GPL requires that you have, and pass along to everybody, the right to distribute software freely and without additional permission. Oops. Guess Novell's and Microsoft's lawyers didn't catch that one. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Tony Pott schrieb:

...

To all the people at SuSE, I know this isn't your fault, and I'm sorry I have to stop using your excellent work. I'm sad to have to change to another distro, I've been a fanboy since SuSE 8.0, but this deal is just disgusting. Agreed, it is very disgusting, like going home to find your wife in bed with

Ah, I see.

Nobody gets what "this" deal is about, but you already know that it It is true, we haven't been in those negociations, but there is the History for all to see.... no need to be an expert. Do you think MS will play nice now all of a sudden? Read Groklaw, it has a good coverage and analisys forces you to stop using the distribution. Highly interesting. It doesn't stop me now, but may be in the future.... Just an example, would you use and promote SCOldera OpenLinux? Can you please read the announcement and point out which of the following prevents you from using the distribution: Patent coverage ------>>>>>>>MS Taxing linux (Novell to pay MS for Linux??? Thats very wrong!) Patent protection racket ("Hi red head, nice linux have you got here, it would be a pity if something bad happened..... see those shushi, they pay us and have no worries") False protection for hobbyists for their *own* use of their *own* work, absolutely unneeded Weakens anti sw patents side in Europe Makes easyer for MS to launch patent attacks on the community and protects

El Sábado, 4 de Noviembre de 2006 09:53, Andreas Hanke escribió: the worst guy of the office. them against antitrust issues Weakens patent commons efforts

Virtualization Virtualization Management We have that now: Qemu, xen, vmware,.... We don't need linux as a flacky toy program under windows See vista EULA Office Open XML A stab in the back of OpenDocument. Eases Office XML path for ISO, damages standards Collaboration Framework With MS? HA HA HA HA HA! Where have you been..... the last 20 years or so? Mono, OpenOffice and Samba Jeopardizes future of those projects, specially mono Damages EU antitrust efforts (documentation of win32 network interfaces) -- Don't see the world through a window, be open{source}minded, and be free :-)

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El Sábado, 4 de Noviembre de 2006 13:17, Andreas Hanke escribió:

Miguel Angel Alvarez schrieb:

...

[...]

All this stuff resembles a similarly *censored* "1+1=2"-style discussion we had recently, and it's similarly useful: We're just stuffing the mailing list archive with self-made junk here, that's it.

If people want to go, do it: Go away, no problem ;-) Experience shows that most of the "this is so disgusting, I'll go away"-thinking users come back again when they realize that there was no reason to do so. And even if they don't, there are enough other users and there are new users every day. Burying the head under the floor doesn't help either. This is simply the fallout of such bussiness tactics, it was ugly for many many people, it's ethical, not simply some technical issue. The mailing list is for opensuse linux issues, and Novell behaviour regarding linux will be commented here, like it or not. SCOldera has showed us what happens when a company turns rogue, so there is justification for the fear. I really hope my fears doesn't come true, only time will show. -- Don't see the world through a window, be open{source}minded, and be free :-)

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Tony Pott schrieb:

You're missing the point.

No, I am not, you are.

Microsoft have been making war against the Linux community for years. Novell have elected to make a separate peace with Microsoft. This makes Novell no longer part of the community.

Who defines who is "part of the community" or not? If you had an idea what all this stuff is about, you would know that people at SUSE are just in this very moment squashing the openSUSE 10.2 buglists in order to have a good openSUSE 10.2 release. openSUSE 10.2, a product that most users don't even pay for. And the people at SUSE are doing this on a Saturday, where "normal" people don't do any work at all. And they will continue tomorrow, on a Sunday, too. Did I forget that they stopped yesterday, Friday, after midnight, doing the same? And whom are they doing this for? For you. How many hours a day are you, the one who defines the community, contributing? But you have nothing better to do than repeatedly posting the same FUD bullshit about MS and betrayals and the community. The community are people who *contribute* to the project and not just talk about it. There are still people who prefer damaging the project by producing FUD, which is per se maybe understandable, but then please don't define who belongs to the community... And feel free to say goodbye if you don't want to belong to this community anymore. It's OK!

It's a betrayal, and one which cannot easily be forgiven or forgotten.

No, it is not a betrayal. The FUD which originates from within the community is a betrayal that cannot be forgiven or forgotten: It's enough now. No interest on your side in contributing to the project anymore => No problem, it will go on anyway, but don't go people on the nerves who neither have any influence on this nor anything to do with this.

I appreciate you're unhappy that people are using this mailing list in a way that you regard as OT. Unfortunately, there is no better place to express our feelings, so you're going to have to live with it for a while.

What I'm going to live with and for how long is something I'd like to decide myself; I have a problem unfairness, what you are practicing is unfairness because the claim to define who belongs to the community is just ridiculous and I complain about this. It can go on infinitely. In other words: Don't announce lengthily that you are going, just do it. Other will do the same, and many of them will come back. Who cares. Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 04 November 2006 17:51, Andreas Hanke wrote:

Tony Pott schrieb:

...

You're missing the point.

No, I am not, you are.

...

Microsoft have been making war against the Linux community for years. Novell have elected to make a separate peace with Microsoft. This makes Novell no longer part of the community.

Who defines who is "part of the community" or not?

If you had an idea what all this stuff is about, you would know that people at SUSE are just in this very moment squashing the openSUSE 10.2 buglists in order to have a good openSUSE 10.2 release.

openSUSE 10.2, a product that most users don't even pay for. And the people at SUSE are doing this on a Saturday, where "normal" people don't do any work at all. And they will continue tomorrow, on a Sunday, too.

Did I forget that they stopped yesterday, Friday, after midnight, doing the same? And whom are they doing this for? For you. How many hours a day are you, the one who defines the community, contributing?

But you have nothing better to do than repeatedly posting the same FUD bullshit about MS and betrayals and the community. The community are people who *contribute* to the project and not just talk about it.

There are still people who prefer damaging the project by producing FUD, which is per se maybe understandable, but then please don't define who belongs to the community... And feel free to say goodbye if you don't want to belong to this community anymore. It's OK!

I just wanted to wrote so you know that someone (me, at the very least) appreciates a lot what SUSE is doing. And sometimes, judging by the mailing lists, the "community" may sound like an ungrateful, bitching & moaning mass. But keep in mind that loud noise can be made easily by only a few. There are a lot of people who understand what you've said. So your effort is not a waste. On Saturday 04 November 2006 19:41, Raúl Moratalla wrote:

El Sábado, 4 de Noviembre de 2006 16:51, Andreas Hanke escribió:

...

But you have nothing better to do than repeatedly posting the same FUD bullshit about MS and betrayals and the community. The community are people who *contribute* to the project and not just talk about it.

I think that you are wrong. The Community are developers and users, not only developers.

Yes, certainly, but to be fair, the users who do nothing more than _just use_, without contributing anything have the least say in the matters. Contributing as an user has a lot of forms, begining with buying the box, coding, bugreports, helping other users. However, sometimes it feels that those who bitch & moan are not contributing much, but are freeloading and then trolling. But one can never be certain on the internet, it could only be a false impression. :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Silviu Marin-Caea a écrit :

However, sometimes it feels that those who bitch & moan are not contributing much, but are freeloading and then trolling. But one can never be certain on the internet, it could only be a false impression. :-)

protesting in a constructive way, argumenting his position and giving clues on how to fix is good. On some extend, a shout can also be understood, but when this become FUD, there is no more interest jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/mediawiki/index.php/GPS_Lowrance_GO --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 04 November 2006 10:03, Janne Karhunen wrote:

http://www.voidspace.org.uk/gallery/silly/big_cup_of_STFU.jpg

Good repository. http://www.voidspace.org.uk/gallery/silly/another_illusion.jpg We probably won't agree about number of black dots too ;-) -- Regards, Rajko M. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hi Andreas, Am Samstag, 4. November 2006 13:17 schrieb Andreas Hanke:

Miguel Angel Alvarez schrieb:

...

[...]

All this stuff resembles a similarly *censored* "1+1=2"-style discussion we had recently, and it's similarly useful: We're just stuffing the mailing list archive with self-made junk here, that's it.

If people want to go, do it: Go away, no problem ;-) Experience shows that most of the "this is so disgusting, I'll go away"-thinking users come back again when they realize that there was no reason to do so. And even if they don't, there are enough other users and there are new users every day.

The sound is like the same as OS/2 same Years before. The future will show it. Regards Frank --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Miguel Angel Alvarez wrote:

El Sábado, 4 de Noviembre de 2006 09:53, Andreas Hanke escribió:

...

Tony Pott schrieb:

...

To all the people at SuSE, I know this isn't your fault, and I'm sorry I have to stop using your excellent work. I'm sad to have to change to another distro, I've been a fanboy since SuSE 8.0, but this deal is just disgusting.

Agreed, it is very disgusting, like going home to find your wife in bed with the worst guy of the office.

Maybe if you're working for Novell. As a member of the openSUSE.org community, I don't feel much affected by this (except all the FUD and crap written against SUSE Linux these days). It's a big business deal between N and MS, has pretty much nothing to do with the community effort, opensource or whatever. It's a PR and sales move by Novell. There are certainly still a lot of businesses out there that are MS shops and their suits are afraid of using Linux because they believe the FUD that they could be put into court for patent litigation. What the agreement means for Novell: they're now most probably going to sell a lot more of SLED and SLES. What it means for openSUSE.org: not much, except that if SLED/SLES sales go up, it will make the Linux products more profitable, hence more support, hence no bankruptancy, etc... Why is Redhat so pissed now (and spreading some FUD through Redhat employees that work on the Fedora project) ? Pretty simple: for those undecided suits that are afraid of patent litigation... if they use Linux, which enterprise distro will they pick ? Novell or Redhat ? Most probably Novell.

...

Nobody gets what "this" deal is about, but you already know that it

It is true, we haven't been in those negociations, but there is the History for all to see.... no need to be an expert. Do you think MS will play nice now all of a sudden?

It has absolutely nothing to do with MS playing nice, nor Novell playing nice with MS. It's an agreement. It's business and big money. Sun has a similar agreement with MS since April, and Sun is definitely yet another business that has a long history of hating MS. Did it kill Sun ? Not by any means. Will it kill Novell ? IMO it will be quite the opposite (read above).

Read Groklaw, it has a good coverage and analisys

Groklaw and other blog posters concentrate a lot on one single point: the IP litigation protection. I just fail to see how this makes any difference to the situation before (except for SLED/SLES customers, to whom it is some sort of a benefit). Nothing has prevented MS from trying to attack Linux businesses on potential IP litigation before. The only bad thing about it is: Novell is acknowledging IP/patents. But Novell has a big patent portfolio on its own, so it doesn't really come as a surprise. I'm afraid we shouldn't expect too much patent-fighting from Novell anyway. The fact that Novell might violate the GPL if there is an IP litigation case against other Linux businesses (e.g. Redhat) and if MS wins that litigation case in court, it would mean that e.g. Redhat would be condemned, but not Novell. This is a pretty hypothetical theory, as there hasn't been any successful IP litigation claim against the Linux kernel or other opensource projects until now (that's what SCO tried to do). And without the Novell/MS agreement, the situation would have been exactly the same, except that SLED/SLES customers would have been a potential target as well.

...

forces you to stop using the distribution. Highly interesting.

It doesn't stop me now, but may be in the future.... Just an example, would you use and promote SCOldera OpenLinux?

Geez, comparing apples and pigs here. Novell is a major contributor to opensource by having a lot of developers on a lot of OSS projects on its payroll. Novell is aggressively (maybe not enough though) pushing Linux into the enterprise and desktop space. How is that comparable to SCO, by any means ?

...

Can you please read the announcement and point out which of the following prevents you from using the distribution: Patent coverage ------>>>>>>>MS Taxing linux (Novell to pay MS for Linux??? Thats very wrong!) Patent protection racket ("Hi red head, nice linux have you got here, it would be a pity if something bad happened..... see those shushi, they pay us and have no worries")

Indeed. But does that make any change to the situation before the agreement ? Not really.

False protection for hobbyists for their *own* use of their *own* work, absolutely unneeded

Right, same as before.

Weakens anti sw patents side in Europe

Funny how everyone (especially outside of Europe) thinks this means Novell would suddenly turn pro-swpats in Europe. Have you seen this happen ? Where ? No you haven't, so let's wait and see how Novell will behave wrt that.

Makes easier for MS to launch patent attacks on the community and protects them against antitrust issues

Really. You think MS needed that agreement to do so ? It does protect MS from infringement claims against Novell's patent portfolio.

Weakens patent commons efforts

Still to prove.

...

Virtualization Virtualization Management

We have that now: Qemu, xen, vmware,.... We don't need linux as a flacky toy program under windows See vista EULA

If *you*'re not interested in using MS' virtualization software, then just don't do so, period. I won't touch it with a stick either. But there are people out there who are using it, and now they will get support for using SLED/SLES as guest VMs. That's a good thing for Novell sales. Does it do any harm to you or openSUSE.org or the opensource community as a whole ? Totally not.

...

Office Open XML

A stab in the back of OpenDocument.

That one might be correct, if and only if we think the only chance to make ODF the only standard (including de-facto) is that everyone except MS is behind ODF and have MS being the only one pushing "open xml". It doesn't mean Novell won't be pushing ODF btw. OTOH, if ODF fails to become the one and only document format, it'll be a good thing for everyone to have full-fledged "open xml" support in OO.o

Eases Office XML path for ISO, damages standards

Dunno, possibly. But I'm afraid MS doesn't need that to get it through ECMA. And once it's through ECMA, it'll get through ISO pretty easily. True, they will be able to say "look, OpenOffice.org supports open xml as well" at some point in time. But I really doubt they wouldn't have been able to push it through ECMA and ISO without that. Stop believing ECMA and ISO have anything to do with ethics.

...

Collaboration Framework

With MS? HA HA HA HA HA! Where have you been..... the last 20 years or so?

And where have you been the last year or so ? MS and Sun are already "collaborating". Is Sun a MS shop ? hardly so

...

Mono, OpenOffice and Samba

Jeopardizes future of those projects, specially mono

Mono was already jeopardized in the first place, from day 1. No wonder Miguel is happy about the deal. He was the very vocal one saying that "nooo, no problem, it's an ECMA standard" - that, indeed, is a lot of BS, but that's not quite the point here. However, the agreement does mean that mono, OO.o and samba will not be attacked by MS through IP infringement claims. That's certainly good news, as it means the developers of those projects can happily keep on hacking and make it more interoperable with .NET, open xml/other MS formats and MS AD, respectively.

Damages EU antitrust efforts (documentation of win32 network interfaces)

Not by any means. The EU still wants those documents from MS. Sorry but you just wrote a lot of very hypothetical stuff that is really far-fetched and drawn from your imagination. Mind you, I'm not really happy about the agreement either, at least right now. But as said before on the list, "wait and see" is most probably the best attitude atm. We just do not know yet whether it will be beneficial to Novell SLES/SLED sales, openSUSE.org or the OSS community as a whole. It sure looks like it can bring a benefit to all of these right now, but we'll see. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFTI8yr3NMWliFcXcRAohRAJ4kcAiniStFsotpZErZJipL8R9wjQCgvs4M SHzk1N4NvnP5jH71U7mpMAM= =JL5/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Two weeks of vacation and now such big inbox ;) Am Saturday 04 November 2006 14:01 schrieb Pascal Bleser: ...

The fact that Novell might violate the GPL if there is an IP litigation case against other Linux businesses (e.g. Redhat) and if MS wins that litigation case in court, it would mean that e.g. Redhat would be condemned, but not Novell. This is a pretty hypothetical theory, as there hasn't been any successful IP litigation claim against the Linux kernel or other opensource projects until now (that's what SCO tried to do).

Just to clarify this (as a non-lawyer without official opinion ;): 1. It is right that it is not allowed to limit the rights of GPL software via patents (or in any other ways). 2. It is right that this can't get workarounded by such an agreement. But consequence is that no one (neither Novell or MS or someone else) is allowed to put software under GPL, if the software is protected by other rules (like a patent). It can not be shipped by anyone in a legal way under this license, even not by the original author. So as long as there are patents and you consider that they apply and the lead to an additional limition, you can not use GPL (and other licenses) for this software. There can be of course software under some other license where this part of agreement is helpfull. (Btw, this may sound like GPL is a bad license, but the reason for it is that it guarantees that you really can reuse the code without any other limitations. So it is definitive a good rule for the open source world.)

And without the Novell/MS agreement, the situation would have been exactly the same, except that SLED/SLES customers would have been a potential target as well.

right bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 07 November 2006 23:44, Marcel Mourguiart wrote:

2006/11/7, Adrian Schröter :

...

Two weeks of vacation and now such big inbox ;)

Am Saturday 04 November 2006 14:01 schrieb Pascal Bleser: ...

...

The fact that Novell might violate the GPL if there is an IP litigation case against other Linux businesses (e.g. Redhat) and if MS wins that litigation case in court, it would mean that e.g. Redhat would be condemned, but not Novell. This is a pretty hypothetical theory, as there hasn't been any successful IP litigation claim against the Linux kernel or other opensource projects until now (that's what SCO tried to do).

Just to clarify this (as a non-lawyer without official opinion ;):

1. It is right that it is not allowed to limit the rights of GPL software via patents (or in any other ways).

2. It is right that this can't get workarounded by such an agreement.

But consequence is that no one (neither Novell or MS or someone else) is allowed to put software under GPL, if the software is protected by other rules (like a patent). It can not be shipped by anyone in a legal way under this license, even not by the original author.

Let me see if i understand your logic.

Tomorrow, Microsoft sue Pepino Linux because according to MS, they use software with MS patents, like Samba or any other crazy patent they have. According to you, Pepino software can't distribute GPL software any more ?

If Pepino Linux decide to make an agreement with Microsoft and go to clean MS bathrooms every saturday in exchange MS agree to retired the sue, that's mean Pepino Linux can't distribute GPL software any more, because the agreement is only for Pepino Linux ?

Know according to you, if Pepino Linux before the sue make an agreement with Microsoft, that says they are not going to get sue it by Microsoft because patents, that's mean they can't distribute GPL software anymore ?

Is this mean SUN can't distribute GPL software any more ??

And if the GPL software that Pepino Linux and SUN distribute are protected _by MS patents_ and that's mean they can't distribute that's software with the GPL license, that's mean Onion Linux can do it ?

Sorry for my bad english, is maybe that, but all this sound like a lot bull shit FUD

Definitely it is because of your english. You should probably read Adrian e-mail again. Hugo --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Am Wednesday 08 November 2006 00:44 schrieb Marcel Mourguiart:

2006/11/7, Adrian Schröter :

...

Two weeks of vacation and now such big inbox ;)

Am Saturday 04 November 2006 14:01 schrieb Pascal Bleser: ...

...

The fact that Novell might violate the GPL if there is an IP litigation case against other Linux businesses (e.g. Redhat) and if MS wins that litigation case in court, it would mean that e.g. Redhat would be condemned, but not Novell. This is a pretty hypothetical theory, as there hasn't been any successful IP litigation claim against the Linux kernel or other opensource projects until now (that's what SCO tried to do).

Just to clarify this (as a non-lawyer without official opinion ;):

1. It is right that it is not allowed to limit the rights of GPL software via patents (or in any other ways).

2. It is right that this can't get workarounded by such an agreement.

But consequence is that no one (neither Novell or MS or someone else) is allowed to put software under GPL, if the software is protected by other rules (like a patent). It can not be shipped by anyone in a legal way under this license, even not by the original author.

Let me see if i understand your logic.

Tomorrow, Microsoft sue Pepino Linux because according to MS, they use software with MS patents, like Samba or any other crazy patent they have. According to you, Pepino software can't distribute GPL software any more ?

If Pepino Linux decide to make an agreement with Microsoft and go to clean MS bathrooms every saturday in exchange MS agree to retired the sue, that's mean Pepino Linux can't distribute GPL software any more, because the agreement is only for Pepino Linux ?

If this patent is valid, no one can (apart from some exception for educational usage). The point is that you can not drop patents of other parties by implementing their patented stuff and declare it GPL. In short, you are not allowed to use the GPL license for your software, when there are patents, which do limitate the usage. (there might be patents, but they need to be granted for usage in a way which fit to the GPL.) Even Pepino Linux would still have a problem after this agreement, because they use software with an invalid license. No matter if MS will sue them or not.

Know according to you, if Pepino Linux before the sue make an agreement with Microsoft, that says they are not going to get sue it by Microsoft because patents, that's mean they can't distribute GPL software anymore ?

Is this mean SUN can't distribute GPL software any more ??

we do only speak about that affected peace of software. Each other software has to be reviewed individually. The problem is not that suddenly the agreement caused something bad. The point is that this software was always in an illegal state, since the patent does hindered the usage of GPL.

And if the GPL software that Pepino Linux and SUN distribute are protected _by MS patents_ and that's mean they can't distribute that's software with the GPL license, that's mean Onion Linux can do it ?

again, no. All what could happen is that Onion Linux says, okay this patent is not valid from our point of view, so we can ship it. But if it is valid, no one can. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

If this patent is valid, no one can (apart from some exception for educational usage).

The point is that you can not drop patents of other parties by implementing their patented stuff and declare it GPL.

In short, you are not allowed to use the GPL license for your software, when there are patents, which do limitate the usage. (there might be patents, but they need to be granted for usage in a way which fit to the GPL.)

In short, patents cover ideas, not implementations. -`J' -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org