[opensuse] multiple kernels?
Is this a problem? I noticed this when I was running an update on my smaller laptop: ----------------------- # zypper up Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... The following 4 package updates will NOT be installed: audacity flac libFLAC++6 libFLAC8 The following 2 NEW packages are going to be installed: kernel-devel-4.4.70-18.9.1 kernel-source-4.4.70-18.9.1 ---------------------- I was thinking, I thought I had kernel 4.11 from the kernel:stable repo, as that is what I have been using on this laptop. So, I ran this: ---------------------- george@tribetrekDell:~> uname -r 4.11.3-1.g7262353-default george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-devel kernel-devel-4.7.6-1.1.gfb37fcc.noarch kernel-devel-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.noarch kernel-devel-4.4.62-18.6.1.noarch kernel-devel-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.noarch george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-default kernel-default-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.x86_64 kernel-default-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.x86_64 ---------------------- Sure enough, I am running kernel 4.11, but I have packages for multiple kernels installed, and the update packages that zypper is saying it is going to install are not even matching to the kernel I am using. Maybe this is contributing to why this system seems so unstable when I am running KDE? Any ideas on why these multiple kernel packages are installed, and possibly, how to fix? I assumed that when updates have been made in the past, the dependencies features should have removed old packages. I only use zypper up to update my system. -- George Box: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 32GB Laptop #1: 42.2 | Gnome 3.20 | AMD FX 7TH GEN | 64 | 12GB Laptop #2: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | Core i5 | 64 | 8GB -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
In data lunedì 12 giugno 2017 07:14:43 CEST, George from the tribe ha scritto:
Is this a problem? I noticed this when I was running an update on my smaller laptop:
----------------------- # zypper up Loading repository data... Reading installed packages...
The following 4 package updates will NOT be installed: audacity flac libFLAC++6 libFLAC8
The following 2 NEW packages are going to be installed: kernel-devel-4.4.70-18.9.1 kernel-source-4.4.70-18.9.1 ----------------------
I was thinking, I thought I had kernel 4.11 from the kernel:stable repo, as that is what I have been using on this laptop. So, I ran this:
---------------------- george@tribetrekDell:~> uname -r 4.11.3-1.g7262353-default george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-devel kernel-devel-4.7.6-1.1.gfb37fcc.noarch kernel-devel-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.noarch kernel-devel-4.4.62-18.6.1.noarch kernel-devel-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.noarch george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-default kernel-default-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.x86_64 kernel-default-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.x86_64 ----------------------
Sure enough, I am running kernel 4.11, but I have packages for multiple kernels installed, and the update packages that zypper is saying it is going to install are not even matching to the kernel I am using.
Maybe this is contributing to why this system seems so unstable when I am running KDE?
Any ideas on why these multiple kernel packages are installed, and possibly, how to fix? I assumed that when updates have been made in the past, the dependencies features should have removed old packages. I only use zypper up to update my system.
Just a guess, but check in journal if "purge kernel" is working. I had that on the beta: it would not purge so, after a while I had a lot of versions installed, root was full and I needed to delete by hand. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/12/2017 05:14 AM, George from the tribe wrote:
Sure enough, I am running kernel 4.11, but I have packages for multiple kernels installed, and the update packages that zypper is saying it is going to install are not even matching to the kernel I am using.
That's a feature, not a bug. Should you find a reason to go back to the other kernel, you would want it up to date, No? So the system does that for you. If you never see yourself going back to that older kernel, maybe you should uninstall it. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-06-12 14:14, George from the tribe wrote:
Is this a problem? I noticed this when I was running an update on my smaller laptop:
----------------------- # zypper up Loading repository data... Reading installed packages...
The following 4 package updates will NOT be installed: audacity flac libFLAC++6 libFLAC8
The following 2 NEW packages are going to be installed: kernel-devel-4.4.70-18.9.1 kernel-source-4.4.70-18.9.1 ----------------------
I was thinking, I thought I had kernel 4.11 from the kernel:stable repo, as that is what I have been using on this laptop. So, I ran this:
---------------------- george@tribetrekDell:~> uname -r 4.11.3-1.g7262353-default george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-devel kernel-devel-4.7.6-1.1.gfb37fcc.noarch kernel-devel-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.noarch kernel-devel-4.4.62-18.6.1.noarch kernel-devel-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.noarch george@tribetrekDell:~> rpm -q kernel-default kernel-default-4.7.5-3.1.ge3f5518.x86_64 kernel-default-4.11.3-1.1.g7262353.x86_64 ----------------------
Sure enough, I am running kernel 4.11, but I have packages for multiple kernels installed, and the update packages that zypper is saying it is going to install are not even matching to the kernel I am using.
But the official version for your distribution is 4.4.70. Ie, it is what comes from the update repository. If you have kernel 4.11 from a non official source, it is your problem to keep it and its toolchain updated.
Maybe this is contributing to why this system seems so unstable when I am running KDE?
Maybe.
Any ideas on why these multiple kernel packages are installed, and possibly, how to fix? I assumed that when updates have been made in the past, the dependencies features should have removed old packages. I only use zypper up to update my system.
But you told your system to keep 4.4. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 06/12/2017 03:06 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2017-06-12 14:14, George from the tribe wrote:
Sure enough, I am running kernel 4.11, but I have packages for multiple kernels installed, and the update packages that zypper is saying it is going to install are not even matching to the kernel I am using.
But the official version for your distribution is 4.4.70. Ie, it is what comes from the update repository.
If you have kernel 4.11 from a non official source, it is your problem to keep it and its toolchain updated.
Maybe this is contributing to why this system seems so unstable when I am running KDE?
Maybe.
Any ideas on why these multiple kernel packages are installed, and possibly, how to fix? I assumed that when updates have been made in the past, the dependencies features should have removed old packages. I only use zypper up to update my system.
But you told your system to keep 4.4.
As far as I know, I don't remember ever telling my system to keep older kernel packages when I installed the new kernel. I had to install the new kernel from the kernel:stable repository right from the very beginning, because my wireless card wouldn't work at the time with the standard kernel from the update repository. I didn't have the kernel:stable repository enabled and refreshing when I started to run that update, which gave me that strange conflict that I wanted to know about (so I started this thread). So, now I enabled and refreshed the kernel:stable repository, and it is no longer trying to install those 2 kernel packages, but is going with all the kernel updates from the kernel:stable repository. I will run that update and see what happens. I have a backup in case everything goes badly. -- George Box: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 32GB Laptop #1: 42.2 | Gnome 3.20 | AMD FX 7TH GEN | 64 | 12GB Laptop #2: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | Core i5 | 64 | 8GB -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/12/2017 03:40 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
and it is no longer trying to install those 2 kernel packages, but is going with all the kernel updates from the kernel:stable repository. I will run that update and see what happens. I have a backup in case everything goes badly.
Of course not, it installed those two already. But now all the updated you have been missing in 4.11 are being applied. There is no problem with having two different kernels installed. Lots of people do it. Its the normal way of testing new kernels, and zypper keeps ALL installed kernels up to date (if you let it do so). In the mean time you've been whining about stability of KDE/Plasma5 without telling us you are using a non-standard kernel and never applying kernel updates to the kernel you are using. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/12/2017 05:57 PM, John Andersen wrote:
On 06/12/2017 03:40 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
and it is no longer trying to install those 2 kernel packages, but is going with all the kernel updates from the kernel:stable repository. I will run that update and see what happens. I have a backup in case everything goes badly.
Of course not, it installed those two already. But now all the updated you have been missing in 4.11 are being applied.
There is no problem with having two different kernels installed. Lots of people do it. Its the normal way of testing new kernels, and zypper keeps ALL installed kernels up to date (if you let it do so).
In the mean time you've been whining about stability of KDE/Plasma5 without telling us you are using a non-standard kernel and never applying kernel updates to the kernel you are using.
Ok, good to know. I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels. At some point I will have to figure out how to test the kernels myself. I had no idea that the newer kernels in the kernel:stable repository might affect the stability of KDE until recently, when KDE started to have consistent lockups, and then I noticed this about the kernels. Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always updating the kernel from that repository? The reason I had disabled the repository was that it seemed that kernel updates were coming through like every week, and perhaps it would be better to just wait. But your comment makes me think that perhaps it is better to always update, as long as I am using an advanced kernel? The reason I had used the non-standard kernel in the first place was to get my wireless card working. My thought was that now that it was working, I would shut off the kernel:stable repository, hold onto the advanced kernel, and wait until the kernel in the standard repos caught up to what I was using. -- George Box: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 32GB Laptop #1: 42.2 | Gnome 3.20 | AMD FX 7TH GEN | 64 | 12GB Laptop #2: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | Core i5 | 64 | 8GB -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/12/2017 04:35 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels
I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save. I believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to be sure the system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for.
Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always updating the kernel from that repository?
I don't know anything about that repository. It looks like it refers to Opensuse Build Service, but other than that I don't know where those kernels come from. You would not expect to see a kernel every week. Even on a rolling release they don't come that fast. I was looking for kernel 4.11 for Opensuse earlier this month but decided to hold off till 42.3 and see what kernel that brings. (There are some interesting features in 4.11 with regard to swap on SSDs). Why hold off? Because right now this KDE/Plasma5 is one of the best versions I've seen in a long time. Stable as a rock, and fast. If we get 5.10 in 42.2 along with QT 5.9 it will be even faster. Perhaps someone else can weigh in on the "officialness" of that particular repository. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
John Andersen composed on 2017-06-12 17:23 (UTC-0700): .
I was looking for kernel 4.11 for Opensuse earlier this month but decided to hold off till 42.3 and see what kernel that brings.. I doubt you have to worry about 42.3 bringing in a kernel newer than 4.4. 4.4 has been in 42.3 since its inception near the subsequently released LTS kernel 4.9, which is already 6 months old, and the next LTS kernel almost certainly won't happen until long after 42.3 is gold. Current 42.3: kernel-default-base-4.4.69-2.1.x86_64.rpm 08-Jun-2017 09:38 https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/12/2017 06:02 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
I doubt you have to worry about 42.3 bringing in a kernel newer than 4.4. 4.4 has been in 42.3 since its inception near the subsequently released LTS kernel 4.9, which is already 6 months old, and the next LTS kernel almost certainly won't happen until long after 42.3 is gold.
I'm not worried about it, I'm sort of waiting for it. There are quite a few fixes newer kernels that would warrant NOT releasing 42.3 with only 4.4 kernel, putting opensuse yet another year behind the curve. Skylake didn't work well at all until 4.9, and only really came into its own in 4.10. There are a boat load of new machines coming out with that chipset. If there were some officially maintained alternate kernels that would be a great alternative. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-06-13 03:27, John Andersen wrote:
On 06/12/2017 06:02 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
I doubt you have to worry about 42.3 bringing in a kernel newer than 4.4. 4.4 has been in 42.3 since its inception near the subsequently released LTS kernel 4.9, which is already 6 months old, and the next LTS kernel almost certainly won't happen until long after 42.3 is gold.
I'm not worried about it, I'm sort of waiting for it.
There are quite a few fixes newer kernels that would warrant NOT releasing 42.3 with only 4.4 kernel, putting opensuse yet another year behind the curve.
Remember that the Leap kernel comes from SLES, not Tumbleweed. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
John Andersen composed on 2017-06-12 18:27 (UTC-0700): .
I'm not worried about it, I'm sort of waiting for it. . There are quite a few fixes newer kernels that would warrant NOT releasing 42.3 with only 4.4 kernel, putting opensuse yet another year behind the curve. . Skylake didn't work well at all until 4.9, and only really came into its own in 4.10. There are a boat load of new machines coming out with that chipset. . If there were some officially maintained alternate kernels that would be a great alternative. . Unlikely expressing this sentiment here is capable of producing fruit. opensuse-factory and opensuse-kernel probably stand a much better, though slim, chance. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/06/17 09:27 PM, John Andersen wrote:
On 06/12/2017 06:02 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
I doubt you have to worry about 42.3 bringing in a kernel newer than 4.4. 4.4 has been in 42.3 since its inception near the subsequently released LTS kernel 4.9, which is already 6 months old, and the next LTS kernel almost certainly won't happen until long after 42.3 is gold.
I'm not worried about it, I'm sort of waiting for it.
There are quite a few fixes newer kernels that would warrant NOT releasing 42.3 with only 4.4 kernel, putting opensuse yet another year behind the curve.
+1
Skylake didn't work well at all until 4.9, and only really came into its own in 4.10. There are a boat load of new machines coming out with that chipset.
Yes, that too. It makes me wonder how many people try installing what amounts to an older kernel from a distribution DVD on a bleeding edge laptop only to have multiple cascading !FAIL!s becuase of reason like this.
If there were some officially maintained alternate kernels that would be a great alternative.
How "official" is http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/stable/standard/ Who is behind it? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/14/2017 04:36 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Skylake didn't work well at all until 4.9, and only really came into its own in 4.10. There are a boat load of new machines coming out with that chipset. Yes, that too. It makes me wonder how many people try installing what amounts to an older kernel from a distribution DVD on a bleeding edge laptop only to have multiple cascading !FAIL!s becuase of reason like this.
Quit a few from my reading the Manjaro forums for the last year. And you are right the fails are usually of a cascading nature where the old LTS kernel works, but cooling, or Video, or shutdown etc. issues end up forcing a kernel swap. One of the very nice things about Manjaro (an arch derivative) is the ease of switching kernels, and switching back again. Most of us do that so rarely that we would be bound to hork it up, but their utility does all the steps, as well as deletion of kernels you no longer want. Of course, that made it so easy that they now provide a boatload of kernels, and they are begging people to get off the EOL kernels so they can drop them. They ride on Arch coattails of course - whereas Leap rides on SLES which has no strong business interest in rushing to the latest kernels or the latest hardware. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 14/06/17 01:05 PM, John Andersen wrote:
They ride on Arch coattails of course - whereas Leap rides on SLES which has no strong business interest in rushing to the latest kernels or the latest hardware.
I'm not a 'latest hardware' type of guy. Both my regular readers will recall that I pull old, discarded stuff out of the "Closet or Anxieties", mostly to prove that up-to-date Linux can run on hardware that up to date windows can't, and that the forced discard of hardware, even if the tax man does allow for depreciation of same, is environmentally unfriendly. You really don't need the Maxxxxximum Tower with 32G of ram and an 850 Watt power supply when the old low profile with the miniature 200Watt supply and 4G of RAM is quite adequate. But, as you say John, SLES has no business interest in the latest kernels and all they can offer. Like with SSDs, better packet handling (aka 'faster'), robustness and more. I also look toe the fabulous documentation that ARCH produces, which I often have to read and interpret when the equivalent for Suse is missing. Maybe a change is in order. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/14/2017 11:07 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
Maybe a change is in order.
I use both. No need to switch. For my stable platforms (business use) I still use Opensuse. I've been here since the Pleistocene, and I'm probably not going away. For a few machines, some running business applications as well I've been playing with Manjaro. (KDE and LXDE flavors). Manjaro is rolling, and I don't really want that on all my machines. Manjaro unstable is based on Arch stable. So Manjaro Stable is therefore quite solid. Manjaro has a very helpful community (forum based), unlike those surly b*s*a*ds in Arch lists/forums, some of whom make our own Richard Brown (Hi Richard) look like a pussy cat. They don't have Yast, they have a budding junior version that does the job. But with KDE one has most of the settings you need close at hand. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/14/2017 01:07 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:
I also look toe the fabulous documentation that ARCH produces, which I often have to read and interpret when the equivalent for Suse is missing.
Maybe a change is in order.
Nah, Just mix and match as your needs require. I've run my servers on Arch since (2009?) I have a mix of drives for my laptop both openSuSE and Arch (and a SlackWare too). I have Debian on the Raspberry and Ubuntu in Win10, After running SuSE/openSuSE, I ran Arch for the daily driver with Trinity as the desktop until I ran out of time to continue fighting gcc/glibc changes as the sole builder of Trinity on Arch. Even when I was driving on Arch, I always had an openSuSE drive for the daily driver as well. When I ran out of time to build TDE, I went back to suse and have been absolutely satisfied and impressed with the KDE3 build and the gradual transition to systemd (even though it still takes 30 seconds for my wireless to initialize on boot). I've kept all the servers on Arch, for the primary benefit of the rolling release and never having to set aside a block of time to upgrade. I don't think I've missed any suse installs (except by choice of not needing to reload for the release +1) If I recall it started with 7.0 (Air), after coming from Mandy when 7.0 was released, then 8.0, 8.2, 9.0, 9.2 (that was the time when .odd were primarily development and .even the releases), but then 10.0, 10.3 (.odd no longer meant development), 11.0, 11.4, 13.1, 42.2 (the jump doesn't indicate awayness, just some screwball decision to jump on the 'my number is bigger bandwagon' -- no doubt the brainchild of a 20-something) Since 11.0 was May 2008, I started with Arch about 6 months later (that is one thing I *can* thank KDE4 for). And since then, the versions I've run of Arch are -- just Arch... Both have strengths and weaknesses. One of SuSE's strength has always been the community -- this list. While volume (and new ringed development strategies) dictated the split from the true community opensuse@opensuse.org list to opensuse-{factory,packaging,...,younameit}, opensuse wins that category hands down. (the arch mailing list is intentionally low-volume, user-help, which is good, is handled in their forum) If I have new hardware, need current upstream release software or need to read a current well-written reference on how to use or configure, in depth, package Y, Arch wins out. For point and click install and management tools, opensuse shines. If you do it from the cli, there is a lot to be said for the Arch pacman, makepkg, minimalist KISS philosophy. Throw in the fact that apt-get and dpkg are more than usable as well on Debian and Ubuntu, you round out the mix. Under the hood, there isn't a whole lot of difference in what Linux is. It just boils down to the distro philosophy, the community, and talented developers to keep a firm hand on the wheel and keep things moving forward. Even VMware is just Linux under the hood (and talk about older kernels...). So, time for a change? -- no... Time to broaden your Linux horizons -- that's always a good bet ;-) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 15/06/17 02:05 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:
Under the hood, there isn't a whole lot of difference in what Linux is. It just boils down to the distro philosophy, the community, and talented developers to keep a firm hand on the wheel and keep things moving forward. Even VMware is just Linux under the hood (and talk about older kernels...).
So, time for a change? -- no... Time to broaden your Linux horizons -- that's always a good bet
Actually when I said "time for a change" I meant a change in how openSUSE addresses documentation, and I was comparing it more specifically to the thoroughness that Arch and Ubuntu and even RedHat document their 'product'. As for diversity, I've clocked mileage with UNIX V5, UNIX V6, UNIX V7, SYSTEM III System V, SCO UNIX/85, Convergent UNIX/86, SUN OS, Solaris, quite a number of revisions of AIX, ditto HP/UX and even Data Generals attempt at UNIX, both on the 86 (which was a complete bomb) and on their larger machines,what was so obsessive SVR4 compliant it was an uphill battle to administer. All that before dealing with Linux though slackware with < 0.9 ... well everything except Ubuntu. Oh, and various BSD's along the way all the way back to 2.8 on the PDP-11. I still have all the original USG manuals and I've had many books on Linux. I can see why beginners get turned away and why so many of us have to learn by digging under the hood, or specializing in a specific area. Compared to the level of standards and documentation that I've seen for, for example, even home auto maintenance, never mind the level that applies to something like aviation, computer documentation for users and administration is lacking, and while the Big Name firms do a better job (my shelves of AIX documentation and sysadmin stretch a lot further than my accumulated of UNIX/Linux) they still seem to think that volume counts. No, the Arch and RedHat procedural manuals, their "How-To" pages, and especially their stuff on dealing with difficult (aka error and disaster recovery) and "interesting" situations is better presented, better indexed than OpenSuse. All to often I find myself using those pages and 'translating' past the few OpenSuse oddities (like the use of 'defaults'). The isn't about mixing and matching which version of Linux to run. Its about comparing the attitudes towards documentation. Every implementation has its foibles. This list, the factory list, keeps pointing out that LEAP is based on the Novell/SUSE product, so things like the kernel lag a long way behind the the 'latest' or what other distributions offer, even if it is patched up. All of which makes things more confusing for the admin, who has to check what patches are applied to old kernels vs using a later a kernel. It makes it all hell for a newbie. No wonder so many newbies to Linux end up with the "Golden Arches" of Ubuntu. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 20/06/17 17:02, Anton Aylward wrote:
Actually when I said "time for a change" I meant a change in how openSUSE addresses documentation, and I was comparing it more specifically to the thoroughness that Arch and Ubuntu and even RedHat document their 'product'. <snip>
Compared to the level of standards and documentation that I've seen for, for example, even home auto maintenance, never mind the level that applies to something like aviation, computer documentation for users and administration is lacking, and while the Big Name firms do a better job (my shelves of AIX documentation and sysadmin stretch a lot further than my accumulated of UNIX/Linux) they still seem to think that volume counts.
No, the Arch and RedHat procedural manuals, their "How-To" pages, and especially their stuff on dealing with difficult (aka error and disaster recovery) and "interesting" situations is better presented, better indexed than OpenSuse. All to often I find myself using those pages and 'translating' past the few OpenSuse oddities (like the use of 'defaults').
The isn't about mixing and matching which version of Linux to run. Its about comparing the attitudes towards documentation. Every implementation has its foibles. This list, the factory list, keeps pointing out that LEAP is based on the Novell/SUSE product, so things like the kernel lag a long way behind the the 'latest' or what other distributions offer, even if it is patched up. All of which makes things more confusing for the admin, who has to check what patches are applied to old kernels vs using a later a kernel. It makes it all hell for a newbie. No wonder so many newbies to Linux end up with the "Golden Arches" of Ubuntu.
I'm not sure it's really fair to criticize (open)SUSE for its documentation. Just on the subject of the title of this post, for example, you could find this section on multiple kernels: https://doc.opensuse.org/documentation/leap/reference/book.opensuse.referenc... forming part of the 481-page Reference Guide, itself one of six books of documentation available for Leap 42.2. Just how many words can SUSE really print and update for every version of openSUSE that arrives at least once per year? All that of course is 'official'. On the user side, it's a complete mess, at least when you're talking about the wiki and some other bits of opensuse.org, but that's really a fault of the users and the community. gumb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save. I believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to be sure the system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for.. Default is 2 or 3, depending on which are currently installed, and whether
John Andersen composed on 2017-06-12 17:23 (UTC-0700): purge-kernels.service has been enabled and running: # grep ^multiversion\.k /etc/zypp/zypp.conf multiversion.kernels = latest,latest-1,running -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/12/2017 07:23 PM, John Andersen wrote:
On 06/12/2017 04:35 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels
I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save. I believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to be sure the system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for.
Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always updating the kernel from that repository?
I don't know anything about that repository. It looks like it refers to Opensuse Build Service, but other than that I don't know where those kernels come from. You would not expect to see a kernel every week. Even on a rolling release they don't come that fast.
I was looking for kernel 4.11 for Opensuse earlier this month but decided to hold off till 42.3 and see what kernel that brings. (There are some interesting features in 4.11 with regard to swap on SSDs). Why hold off? Because right now this KDE/Plasma5 is one of the best versions I've seen in a long time. Stable as a rock, and fast. If we get 5.10 in 42.2 along with QT 5.9 it will be even faster.
Perhaps someone else can weigh in on the "officialness" of that particular repository.
I am glad to know that it has been stable for you, as that means that I only need to figure out where mine is not configured correctly and then it will work. I love KDE too for its features, but on my laptop, home desktop, and work desktop, I consistently have the kwin crash bug cause me problems. It is only on my laptop that I am using the advanced kernel, but that bug remains on the other 2 machines. -- George Box: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 32GB Laptop #1: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD FX 7TH GEN | 64 | 12GB Laptop #2: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | Core i5 | 64 | 8GB -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/06/17 11:00 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
I am glad to know that it has been stable for you, as that means that I only need to figure out where mine is not configured correctly and then it will work.
As John points out, it may be a chipset/revision issue. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-06-13 02:23, John Andersen wrote:
On 06/12/2017 04:35 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels
I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save. I believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to be sure the system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for.
That applies to how many from version 4.4 to keep and how many from version 4.11 to keep. Not the same thing. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
Op dinsdag 13 juni 2017 02:23:11 CEST schreef John Andersen:
On 06/12/2017 04:35 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels
I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save. I believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to be sure the system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for.
Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always updating the kernel from that repository? I don't know anything about that repository. It looks like it refers to Opensuse Build Service, but other than that I don't know where those kernels come from.
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/stable/standard/
You would not expect to see a kernel every week. Even on a rolling release they don't come that fast.
They do, at least new packages, in Tumbleweed.
I was looking for kernel 4.11 for Opensuse earlier this month but decided to hold off till 42.3 and see what kernel that brings. (There are some interesting features in 4.11 with regard to swap on SSDs).
Leap 42.3 is not going to have kernel 4.11 .
Why hold off? Because right now this KDE/Plasma5 is one of the best versions I've seen in a long time. Stable as a rock, and fast. If we get 5.10 in 42.2 along with QT 5.9 it will be even faster.
Perhaps someone else can weigh in on the "officialness" of that particular repository.
The best suggestion IMO always has been to stick to the distribution repos, add only Packman if you use a desktop and play media. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-06-13 12:38, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:
Op dinsdag 13 juni 2017 02:23:11 CEST schreef John Andersen:
Perhaps someone else can weigh in on the "officialness" of that particular repository.
The best suggestion IMO always has been to stick to the distribution repos, add only Packman if you use a desktop and play media.
But George has a problem that this strategy does not solve: ]> The reason I had used the non-standard kernel in the first place was ]> to get my wireless card working. My thought was that now that it was ]> working, I would shut off the kernel:stable repository, hold onto the ]> advanced kernel, and wait until the kernel in the standard repos ]> caught up to what I was using. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 12/06/17 08:23 PM, John Andersen wrote:
On 06/12/2017 04:35 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels
I believe there is a setting someplace to tell it how many kernels to save. I believe someone upstream in this thread mentioned checking that setting to be sure the system is only maintaining the number of kernels you asked for.
Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always updating the kernel from that repository?
I don't know anything about that repository. It looks like it refers to Opensuse Build Service, but other than that I don't know where those kernels come from. You would not expect to see a kernel every week. Even on a rolling release they don't come that fast.
Regular readers of my posts, both of them, will recall that i use Kernel_Standard. It is at http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/stable/standard/ I may not be the most extreme of users, batting around the nVidia and AMD blobs, but I'm reasonably blooded minded in my expectations of a kernel and do read the CVEs and realise that the up to date kernels not only have features, improvement, but also bug patches. For a while there, yes, the patches were comming a few a week, but we now seem back to one or two a month.
I was looking for kernel 4.11 for Opensuse earlier this month but decided to hold off till 42.3 and see what kernel that brings. (There are some interesting features in 4.11 with regard to swap on SSDs).
Yes, that area has seen some advancements in the last few months and the culmination seems impressive enough to tempt me to to getting one.
Why hold off? Because right now this KDE/Plasma5 is one of the best versions I've see> in a long time. Stable as a rock, and fast. If we get 5.10 in 42.2 along with QT 5.9 it will be even faster.
I'm unclear if, or how I might be running KDE/Plasma5.
Perhaps someone else can weigh in on the "officialness" of that particular repository.
All I know is that its not given me any problems and I'm not a 'gracious' user. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/14/2017 06:32 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 12/06/17 08:23 PM, John Andersen wrote:
On 06/12/2017 04:35 PM, George from the tribe wrote:
I didn't know that zypper keeps all installed kernels
Regular readers of my posts, both of them, will recall that i use Kernel_Standard. It is at http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Kernel:/stable/standard/
When you say your "posts", do you mean just your posts here in this list? Or do you have some sort of newsletter/blog? If so, I would be interested in following that.
All I know is that its not given me any problems and I'm not a 'gracious' user.
Glad to know it works for you. I think I will try moving to using that regularly again and see how it affects my system.
-- George Box: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 32GB Laptop #1: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD FX 7TH GEN | 64 | 12GB Laptop #2: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | Core i5 | 64 | 8GB -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-06-13 01:35, George from the tribe wrote:
On 06/12/2017 05:57 PM, John Andersen wrote:
I had no idea that the newer kernels in the kernel:stable repository might affect the stability of KDE until recently, when KDE started to have consistent lockups, and then I noticed this about the kernels.
Your statement there actually brings up an interesting point. Since I am using the kernel:stable repository, is it better to keep it always updating the kernel from that repository? The reason I had disabled the repository was that it seemed that kernel updates were coming through like every week, and perhaps it would be better to just wait. But your comment makes me think that perhaps it is better to always update, as long as I am using an advanced kernel?
Those kernels are experimental. There is also a risk in updating them.
The reason I had used the non-standard kernel in the first place was to get my wireless card working. My thought was that now that it was working, I would shut off the kernel:stable repository, hold onto the advanced kernel, and wait until the kernel in the standard repos caught up to what I was using.
No, Leap 42.2 will not catch up. And 42.3 comes with kernel 4.4.69 If you have some hardware that doesn't work on 42.2, try 42.3 Beta NOW, and if it doesn't work, report FAST in bugzilla. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 06/12/2017 07:14 AM, George from the tribe wrote:
Is this a problem? I noticed this when I was running an update on my smaller laptop:
----------------------- # zypper up Loading repository data... Reading installed packages...
The following 4 package updates will NOT be installed: audacity flac libFLAC++6 libFLAC8
The following 2 NEW packages are going to be installed: kernel-devel-4.4.70-18.9.1 kernel-source-4.4.70-18.9.1 ----------------------
I was thinking, I thought I had kernel 4.11 from the kernel:stable repo, as that is what I have been using on this laptop. So, I ran this:
Is this a problem? - No. Whether multiple versions of the kernel are kept are controlled by: /etc/zypp/zypp.con multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel) The number of kernels kept (for the reasons explained in the other posts) is controlled by: /etc/zypp/zypp.con multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel) The config file provides about 20 lines of explanation regarding each. You can probably set this through the gui sysconfig-editor, but I always prefer to just do it by hand. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/12/2017 07:12 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
The number of kernels kept (for the reasons explained in the other posts) is controlled by:
/etc/zypp/zypp.con multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)
Of course that is /etc/zypp/zypp.conf (typo) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 06/12/2017 09:52 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 06/12/2017 07:12 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
The number of kernels kept (for the reasons explained in the other posts) is controlled by:
/etc/zypp/zypp.con multiversion = provides:multiversion(kernel)
Of course that is /etc/zypp/zypp.conf (typo)
good to know, I will check it out, thanks -- George Box: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | 32GB Laptop #1: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | AMD FX 7TH GEN | 64 | 12GB Laptop #2: 42.2 | KDE Plasma 5.8 | Core i5 | 64 | 8GB -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
David C. Rankin -
Felix Miata -
George from the tribe -
gumb -
John Andersen -
Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink -
stakanov