YOU/Manual - what do the various text colors mean (red, blue, black), why are some boxes checked and some not, and what does YOU expect me to do next?
Hi, I ran Yast/YOU for the second time, but in "manual" mode this time. I wanted to see if the Samba security patch was downloaded and what else was going on, etc. But I'm lost as to what YOU wants me to do and I can't find any help for YOU. I've looked in the hard copy and online. Also, during this process, I wanted to do a multiple word search in SuSE Help and I can't even figure out how to do that. Shouldn't be difficult right. Argh! The doc in the hard copy Admin manual does not match what the SuSE Help application looks like, so that's no good. In the hard copy book it looks like there should be a separate text field to enter the additional search words, but when I look at the application I don't see any. I typed multiple search words in the one main text entry field and absolutely nothing happens. Regarding YOU, after the patches are downloaded and the screen is repainted, what do the various text colors mean (red, blue, black), why are some boxes checked and some not, and what does YOU expect me to do next? I'm staring at this screen which is very colorful with absolutely no available help. This is an awful end user application (imho). Is it documented anywhere what these colors mean? Is it documented anywhere what happens if you check something or uncheck something? It appears I can do a lot on this screen, but I have no clue what the ramifications might be from my actions. I really want to understand YOU. Is it documented anywhere what YOU expects the end user to do in manual mode? Is this why people use fou4s because YOU is, hhhmmmm, lacking? Thank you in advance. -- __________________________ DJ mailto: linux_programmer@hotmail.com
On Thu, 2002-11-21 at 22:38, DJ wrote:
Regarding YOU, after the patches are downloaded and the screen is repainted, what do the various text colors mean (red, blue, black), why are some boxes checked and some not, and what does YOU expect me to do next? I'm staring at this screen which is very colorful with absolutely no available help. This is an awful end user application (imho).
Is it documented anywhere what these colors mean?
I don't know about documentation, but blue is for patches already installed, black for patches which are about to be installed, empty if there is a patch available for a program not installed on your system but is on the suse cd's, read text is for security issues, blue text for non-security issues, black text is (ok, I haven't figured that one out yet :o
Is this why people use fou4s because YOU is, hhhmmmm, lacking?
yes, it is lacking very much, I can't even point the updater to a cd, so I have to waste time re-downloading all the updates for each box instead of d/l'ing once and burning to cd like i used to (a step BACK from yast1 !!). Can't put it in a cron job either, heck even windoze has an auto update feature now...(those are 2 hints for SuSE and 8.2 ;^) -jeric -- JericAtSbcglobalDotNetwork 11:18pm up 1 day, 15:07, 6 users, load average: 0.03, 0.16, 0.15
Good day Jeric,
yes, it is lacking very much, I can't even point the updater to a cd, so I have to waste time re-downloading all the updates for each box instead of d/l'ing once and burning to cd like i used to (a step BACK from yast1 !!).
This is possible. On the system where you downloaded with YOU, copy the /var/lib/YaST2/you/i386 directory and the cookies file to your CD. Then on the computers where you want to use the updates from the CD, mount the CD, start YaST2's Patch CD Update, select 'directory' as the source, and point it to the directory containing the i386 directory. That works for me. A couple of notes: The cookies file seems to hold some needed validation information. Without it YOU will tell you that it can't validate the patches, so nothing can be updated. Some patches seem to be in the way of other patches. For instance, you can not update everything all at once these days. the KDE 3.0.5 security patch will stop the update. But it's resolvable as YOU lists its actions and you can see at what patch it stopped. Just select to _not_ have the offending patch applied at first. Then go for a second ride where you apply the patches that stopped the previous update. A bit tidious, but it works. Best regards :o) Johnny :o)
* Johnny Ernst Nielsen; <johnny.ernst.nielsen@get2net.dk> on 22 Nov, 2002 wrote:
Good day Jeric,
yes, it is lacking very much, I can't even point the updater to a cd, so I have to waste time re-downloading all the updates for each box instead of d/l'ing once and burning to cd like i used to (a step BACK from yast1 !!).
This is possible.
On the system where you downloaded with YOU, copy the /var/lib/YaST2/you/i386 directory and the cookies file to your CD.
Actually the whole process is explained http://susefaq.sf.net/articles/you.html
Then on the computers where you want to use the updates from the CD, mount the CD, start YaST2's Patch CD Update, select 'directory' as
No need to mount the CD as YOU does this by itself and it would automaticall select the cd with the correct directory on it no need to do manual adjustments. Just make surte you are following the procedure for creating the CD as outlined in the article work for all SuSE versions which use YOU -- Togan Muftuoglu Unofficial SuSE FAQ Maintainer http://dinamizm.ath.cx
Good day Togan,
yes, it is lacking very much, I can't even point the updater to a cd, so I have to waste time re-downloading all the updates for each box instead of d/l'ing once and burning to cd like i used to (a step BACK from yast1 !!).
This is possible.
On the system where you downloaded with YOU, copy the /var/lib/YaST2/you/i386 directory and the cookies file to your CD.
Actually the whole process is explained http://susefaq.sf.net/articles/you.html
Then on the computers where you want to use the updates from the CD, mount the CD, start YaST2's Patch CD Update, select 'directory' as
No need to mount the CD as YOU does this by itself and it would automaticall select the cd with the correct directory on it no need to do manual adjustments. Just make surte you are following the procedure for creating the CD as outlined in the article work for all SuSE versions which use YOU
Great Togan :o) I will try this out on my 8.1 one of the coming days. I am excited to see the differences between 8.0 and 8.1 - if any - on this matter. Best regards :o) Johnny :o)
* DJ; <linux_programmer@hotmail.com> on 21 Nov, 2002 wrote:
Also, during this process, I wanted to do a multiple word search in SuSE Help and I can't even figure out how to do that. Shouldn't be difficult right. Argh! The doc in the hard copy Admin manual does not match what the SuSE Help application looks like, so that's no good. In the hard copy book it looks like there should be a separate text field to enter the additional search words, but when I look at the application I don't see any. I typed multiple search words in the one main text entry field and absolutely nothing happens.
because SuSEconfig.susehelp is broken so no index is produced ( as far as I can tell) to fix SuSEconfig.susehelp around line 40 replace indexsusehelp with susehelpindex # /usr/sbin/indexsusehelp -> /usr/bin/susehelpindex if [ "$DOC_AUTOINDEX" = yes ] ; then /sbin/checkproc -p /var/lock/susehelpindex /usr/bin/susehelpindex >& /dev/null || \ echo " Creating susehelp index."; \ /bin/bash -c "/usr/bin/susehelpindex >& $MYLOG & /sbin/pidofproc \ /usr/bin/susehelpindex >/var/lock/susehelpindex" &
Is it documented anywhere what these colors mean?
Not all of the features but some at http://www.suse.de/~sh -- Togan Muftuoglu Unofficial SuSE FAQ Maintainer http://dinamizm.ath.cx
The 02.11.22 at 08:00, Togan Muftuoglu wrote:
because SuSEconfig.susehelp is broken so no index is produced ( as far as I can tell) to fix SuSEconfig.susehelp around line 40 replace indexsusehelp with susehelpindex
I renamed the script "/usr/sbin/susehelpindex" as "/usr/sbin/indexsusehelp". Interestingly, in the script its own name is refered in two different ways: print "susehelpindex needs to be started as root for creating index files.\n"; and later, the other way round: sub usage() { print <<EOF; Usage: indexsusehelp [options] I wish they would make up their minds! I can't decide which is the correct name :-(
# /usr/sbin/indexsusehelp -> /usr/bin/susehelpindex if [ "$DOC_AUTOINDEX" = yes ] ; then /sbin/checkproc -p /var/lock/susehelpindex /usr/bin/susehelpindex >& /dev/null || \ echo " Creating susehelp index."; \ /bin/bash -c "/usr/bin/susehelpindex >& $MYLOG & /sbin/pidofproc \ /usr/bin/susehelpindex >/var/lock/susehelpindex" &
Note that the lock file was also mispelled in the original. This is bad quality control, IMHO. Worse, this bug is not mentioned in the SDB so far.
Is it documented anywhere what these colors mean?
Not all of the features but some at
I'll have a look; they are very confussing, no help button... worsened because the "size" box below remains at "0" all the time. It's very difficult to know what it's going to download (in bytes), which is important to those of us using a modem line. The good thing is that it download patches, and not full rpms, I think. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
* Carlos E. R.; <robin1.listas@tiscali.es> on 22 Nov, 2002 wrote:
I wish they would make up their minds! I can't decide which is the correct name :-(
Well to be honest I did the other way ( ie changed the below version so it says susehelpindex
# /usr/sbin/indexsusehelp -> /usr/bin/susehelpindex if [ "$DOC_AUTOINDEX" = yes ] ; then /sbin/checkproc -p /var/lock/susehelpindex /usr/bin/susehelpindex >& /dev/null || \ echo " Creating susehelp index."; \ /bin/bash -c "/usr/bin/susehelpindex >& $MYLOG & /sbin/pidofproc \ /usr/bin/susehelpindex >/var/lock/susehelpindex" &
Note that the lock file was also mispelled in the original. This is bad quality control, IMHO. Worse, this bug is not mentioned in the SDB so far.
I have filed a bug allready. The funny part is SuSEcobfig is run everytime YOU is run and at least one should have seen it ( well if it was not all GUI I mostly have the root-tail running :-)
I'll have a look; they are very confussing, no help button... worsened because the "size" box below remains at "0" all the time. It's very
resize the whole thing make it as wide as your sceeen adjust the panel heights and than you have a workable packagemanager screen :-) -- Togan Muftuoglu Unofficial SuSE FAQ Maintainer http://dinamizm.ath.cx
The 02.11.22 at 20:39, Togan Muftuoglu wrote:
I wish they would make up their minds! I can't decide which is the correct name :-(
Well to be honest I did the other way ( ie changed the below version so it says susehelpindex
Yes, I noticed. I suppose we are both correct, till somebody who knows better finds out :-)
I have filed a bug allready. The funny part is SuSEcobfig is run everytime YOU is run and at least one should have seen it ( well if it was not all GUI I mostly have the root-tail running :-)
I noticed it when I modified the apache config so that susehelp worked outside konkeror, and run suseconfig manually. It wasn't difficult to find out, and I was reading my own notes I wrote when adjusting suse 7.3 for it problems with susehelp.
I'll have a look; they are very confussing, no help button... worsened because the "size" box below remains at "0" all the time. It's very
resize the whole thing make it as wide as your sceeen adjust the panel heights and than you have a workable packagemanager screen :-)
I'll try that, thankyou :-) -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
because SuSEconfig.susehelp is broken so no index is produced ( as far as I can tell) to fix SuSEconfig.susehelp around line 40 replace indexsusehelp with susehelpindex
CER> I renamed the script "/usr/sbin/susehelpindex" as CER> "/usr/sbin/indexsusehelp". Interestingly, in the script its own name is CER> refered in two different ways: I've been trying to follow this suse faq/help thread and I'm a little lost. Maybe after you expert guys figure it out, you could summarize what we SuSE newbie's need to do ;-) I just logged on to SuSE KDE and I can't find the FAQ link anywhere. Are we suppose to see a link to the FAQ some place? Also, in the SuSE "User Guide", hard copy, on page 325, it shows an "Advanced" tab. My SuSE Help doesn't have this (which is why I think I can't do the multiple word search). Is the "Advanced" tab suppose to be there? With regards to what you guys are talking about, will it fix it? :-) On page 324, there is a url that is incorrect, http:/localhost/hilfe/index.html.en Does anyone know what it should be? I tried a couple of variations and I couldn't figure it out. There are a lot of errors in the SuSE documentation that sometimes I just through up my arms and then try to figure it out on my own or use other sources. If you are trying to get something done and learn in the process, the last thing you need or want, is to try and figure out what the documentation should have said. I went to the link, http://sdb.suse.de/sdb/en/html/bugs81.html (actually in the documentation on page 42, this was also incorrect, but I guessed the /de/ should have been a /en/), listed in the Administration book, and I was kind of excited to see an Errata for the documentation. But when I went to the Errata link, http://sdb.suse.de/sdb/en/html/errata-81-d.html, there was nothing there. I don't think anyone proofreads the manuals. You don't have to go to far to see the first problem. In the Administration book, in the Preface, the very, very first word is incorrect. Actually it looks like a macro is not being substituted, because it says, "[SuS02b] showed how easy it is to install and operate your new SuSE Linux...". There seems to be a lot of old stuff in the manuals, too. Things that are no longer true for 8.1. imho, if I buy the Professional (not the update), I want the majority of the text to be 8.1. There is some version cleanup necessary in the documentation. I originally found out about the FAQ by seeing it in a signature block. So I only knew about the FAQ on the net. Too bad SuSE won't incorporate the FAQ on their Web site. Please keep the FAQ up. It is helpful. Sometimes we don't report these items because we're too busy and need to get the work done, we don't think it makes a difference or the report goes into the bit-bucket, we get tired of too many little annoying type errors, we think someone else already reported it, or we don't know how it is suppose to work in the first place. Short surveys are always a nice way to get feedback. Thanks. -- __________________________ DJ mailto: linux_programmer@hotmail.com
* DJ; <linux_programmer@hotmail.com> on 22 Nov, 2002 wrote:
CER> I renamed the script "/usr/sbin/susehelpindex" as CER> "/usr/sbin/indexsusehelp". Interestingly, in the script its own name is CER> refered in two different ways:
I've been trying to follow this suse faq/help thread and I'm a little lost.
Especially with the Subject that long I am not suprised
Maybe after you expert guys figure it out, you could summarize what we SuSE newbie's need to do ;-)
Follow the procedure and it should be working
I just logged on to SuSE KDE and I can't find the FAQ link anywhere. Are we suppose to see a link to the FAQ some place?
If you have installed the susefaq.rpm ( Unofficial SuSEFAQ documents which are integrated into susehelpcenter) How to have a working SuSEhelpcenter 1) First open (Root bash shell) or alternatively open an console and then su earth:/ # cd /sbin/conf.d/ earth:/sbin/conf.d # pico -w SuSEconfig.susehelp You can use any editor but pico is simple enough a) because SuSEconfig.susehelp is broken so no index is produced to fix SuSEconfig.susehelp around line 40 replace indexsusehelp with susehelpindex as shown # /usr/sbin/indexsusehelp -> /usr/bin/susehelpindex if [ "$DOC_AUTOINDEX" = yes ] ; then /sbin/checkproc -p /var/lock/susehelpindex /usr/bin/susehelpindex >& /dev/null || \ echo " Creating susehelp index."; \ /bin/bash -c "/usr/bin/susehelpindex >& $MYLOG & /sbin/pidofproc \ /usr/bin/susehelpindex >/var/lock/susehelpindex" & Save the file 2 ) Download the unofficial SuSEFAQ rpm from sourceforge http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/susefaq/susefaq-0.4-1.noarch.rpm?download either install it via YaST2 or use Kpackager or simple rpm command rpm -Uhv susefaq-0.4-1.noarch.rpm 3) Then run /sbin/SuSEconfig --module susehelp 3) Now Unofficial SuSEFAQ should be again in the SuSEhelpcenter with Search enabled. You may need to recreate the index (should not be necessary) 4) If there are bugs please submit them at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=42064&atid=439827
On page 324, there is a url that is incorrect, http:/localhost/hilfe/index.html.en Does anyone know what it should be? I tried a couple of variations and I couldn't figure it out.
Please keep the FAQ up. It is helpful.
Yes I like these keep on pat me on shoulder :*-)
Sometimes we don't report these items because we're too busy and need to get the work done, we don't think it makes a difference or the report goes into the bit-bucket, we get tired of too many little annoying type errors, we think someone else already reported it, or we don't know how it is suppose to work in the first place.
You will never know it if you dont ask it
Short surveys are always a nice way to get feedback.
Himm there is at http://sf.net/projects/susefaq -- Togan Muftuoglu Unofficial SuSE FAQ Maintainer http://dinamizm.ath.cx
I did not receive this message from the list, and ezmlm has been complaining that it bounced, don't know why. I had to manually retrieve it from the archive - so my answer is overtly late O:-) The 02.11.23 at 01:27, DJ wrote: Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 15:24:25 -0600 From: DJ <linux_programmer@hotmail.com> To: suse-linux-e <suse-linux-e@suse.com> Subject: Re: [SLE] YOU/Manual - what do the various text colors mean (red, blue, black), why are some boxes checked and some not, and what does YOU expect me to do next?
because SuSEconfig.susehelp is broken so no index is produced ( as far as I can tell) to fix SuSEconfig.susehelp around line 40 replace indexsusehelp with susehelpindex
CER>> I renamed the script "/usr/sbin/susehelpindex" as CER>> "/usr/sbin/indexsusehelp". Interestingly, in the script its own name CER>> is refered in two different ways:
I've been trying to follow this suse faq/help thread and I'm a little lost.
That's normal :-)
Maybe after you expert guys figure it out, you could summarize what we SuSE newbie's need to do ;-)
Well... depends on what you intend to do. As it comes, susehelp only works from inside kde konkeror, and you have to jump through some loops to make it work anywhere: mozilla, lynx on a text console, gnome, etc. Ok, if you want to do that (you might not) you have to: * Install apache * Ensure firewall is installed too. * Install sdb and related packages - sorry, I forgot which ones. I'll recognize them when I see them, though :-) * Start the apache server, either manually (rcapache start) or automatically (yast, insserv) * Edit "/etc/sysconfig/susehelp" similarly to this: DOC_HOST="nimrodel.valinor" DOC_ALLOW="localhost .valinor" DOC_AUTOINDEX="yes" * Edit /sbin/conf.d/SuSEconfig.susehelp as Togan suggested (there is a misspelled call to /usr/sbin/indexsusehelp, which should be susehelpindex, and also the lock file is wrong - at the end of the file - this is a bug) * Run SuSEconfig.susehelp Suse doesn't do this any longer (dochost was set on by default before 7.1) because there is a security risk having apache running (thus it's better if you use a firewall), and because it takes longer to boot. It is documented somewhere in the books, or it was: I simply have my notes from a year or two ago :-) , but in every version they change it somehow.
I just logged on to SuSE KDE and I can't find the FAQ link anywhere. Are we suppose to see a link to the FAQ some place?
Nop, because it is "unofficial" :-) However, when you subscribed to the list, it was mentioned that there is a FAQ in the confirmation message: | Send mail to the following for info and FAQ for this list: | <suse-linux-e-info@suse.com> | <suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com> You only have to write an empty email to "suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com" and you will get it. It says: | FAQ - Frequently asked questions of the suse-linux-e@suse.com list. | | Note: This FAQ mainly deals with list-specific issues. Togan | Muftuoglu maintains an unofficial FAQ for this that can be | found here: http://dinamizm.ath.cx That second one is the FAQ we were referring to :-) And, it is also possible to install it locally; you have to install Togan rpm, and perhaps jump though some more loops on the way ;-)
Also, in the SuSE "User Guide", hard copy, on page 325, it shows an "Advanced" tab. My SuSE Help doesn't have this (which is why I think I can't do the multiple word search). Is the "Advanced" tab suppose to be there? With regards to what you guys are talking about, will it fix it? :-)
Nop :-) Probably the books went to print, but they continued changing things. Susehelp shows this: | SuSE Help | Home Content Search Search: _____________________ | Options [ Search ] | | ------------------------------------------------------ | | * SuSE Linux | SuSE specific Documentation | * Support database | Your question- our answer! We have already found | the answers to most of your questions. In the | ... | * SuSEFAQ | * Unofficial SuSE FAQ | Unoficial FAQ and their answers for installing | and configuring SuSE Linux (network, firewall, | mail, booting concept, kernel etc.) Under search options I can select where to do the search: | SuSE Help | Home Content Search Search: _____________________ | Options [ Search ] | | ------------------------------------------------------ | | Maximum number of results: [5___] Method for combining | search terms: [and] | | * [X] Support database | * [X] SuSE Reference [...] | * [ ] Unofficial SuSE FAQ Notice the FAQ listed at the bottom - for this you need to install the nice rpm Togan made :-) Also, notice that you can select the method of search as AND or OR. I don't know the syntax, there is no help.
On page 324, there is a url that is incorrect, http:/localhost/hilfe/index.html.en Does anyone know what it should be? I tried a couple of variations and I couldn't figure it out.
That file does exist, but as "/usr/share/susehelp/docserver/index.html.en". It is parsed by apache and served as "http://localhost/susehelp/index.html"; the main local page comes from "/srv/www/htdocs/index.html.en" - all this in 8.1, other versions are different.
There are a lot of errors in the SuSE documentation that sometimes I just through up my arms and then try to figure it out on my own or use other sources. If you are trying to get something done and learn in the process, the last thing you need or want, is to try and figure out what the documentation should have said.
True enough. But, the worst errors I found were in Suse 7.3: the Spanish Suse documentation came in _German_, and the same happened for the Italian and French versions. It has never been corrected. I wrote to them (I reported around 12 big errors) and got no answer... :-/ Very disappointing, as the printed docs were surprisingly good.
I went to the link, http://sdb.suse.de/sdb/en/html/bugs81.html (actually in the documentation on page 42, this was also incorrect, but I guessed the /de/ should have been a /en/), listed in the Administration book, and I was kind of excited to see an Errata for the documentation. But when I went to the Errata link, http://sdb.suse.de/sdb/en/html/errata-81-d.html, there was nothing there.
Ugh.
I don't think anyone proofreads the manuals. You don't have to go to far to see the first problem. In the Administration book, in the Preface, the very, very first word is incorrect. Actually it looks like a macro is not being substituted, because it says, "[SuS02b] showed how easy it is to install and operate your new SuSE Linux...".
Marketing pressures :-? For me, there are worse errors than that one. There are some links in susehelp that do not work; and in gnome a good number of programs report "such file not found" when I click on "help". It is not that the file is missing, but that it is on a different place. It happened the same in suse 7.3, but in 8.1 I have not figured out how to solve it yet. There are a number of bad issues with gnome that have not been beta tested :-(
There seems to be a lot of old stuff in the manuals, too. Things that are no longer true for 8.1. imho, if I buy the Professional (not the update), I want the majority of the text to be 8.1. There is some version cleanup necessary in the documentation.
I haven't checked that, but it could be.
I originally found out about the FAQ by seeing it in a signature block. So I only knew about the FAQ on the net. Too bad SuSE won't incorporate the FAQ on their Web site.
Well, it is not an official FAQ. They instead have the SDB, which is very, very good. However, the FAQ is mentioned on the list instructions... - true enough, I me-self didn't notice it, I thought it was more of the mail list handling stuff.
Please keep the FAQ up. It is helpful.
It is :-)
Sometimes we don't report these items because we're too busy and need to get the work done, we don't think it makes a difference or the report goes into the bit-bucket, we get tired of too many little annoying type errors, we think someone else already reported it, or we don't know how it is suppose to work in the first place.
[ rant mode on ;-) ] I don't write reports any longer because mine were ignored. I can understand a no answer, but no that those bugs were never solved, nor mentioned in the sdb. Why should I bother, then? I know they make a good job, and work hard at it. It is a very good distro. But these things make me wonder... I would like my preferred distro to be perfect, or close to it. When I try to convince some one to try linux, specifically Suse, those things give a very bad impression to the would be newcomer. They, I, pay, so we expect everything to work smoothly. Specially newcomers from the windows world: they have the idea that linux is free, free of charge. But they hate the work involved: pulling files form inet, compiling, testing, etc. So they turn to a distro, but "free" ones also need a lot of work configuring things. So I say to them: "if you want that job done for you, you have to pay for it. Buy a serious distro". So they buy Suse - I always recommend Suse, that way when they go back for questions I know my ground ;-) - but you can not imagine the faces when told that "to make ZZZ work you have to... because there is a bug". :-(
Short surveys are always a nice way to get feedback.
Hmm... If they are read :-? -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
participants (5)
-
Carlos E. R. -
DJ -
Jeric -
Johnny Ernst Nielsen -
Togan Muftuoglu