Clayton wrote:

...

2. I can NOT drag and drop a file from the desktop to either Konqueror or Dolphin. On the other hand I can do it among folders.

This afternoon, I installed OpenSUSE 11.1 & KDE 4. It lasted about 1 hour and I'm reinstalling from scratch with KDE3. The more I'm exposed to KDE 4, the more I hate it. It is one #%$%@#$% piece of crap!!! It is extremely irritating!!! -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 19 December 2008 23:06:57 Clayton wrote:

...

This afternoon, I installed OpenSUSE 11.1 & KDE 4. It lasted about 1 hour and I'm reinstalling from scratch with KDE3. The more I'm exposed to KDE 4, the more I hate it. It is one #%$%@#$% piece of crap!!!

It is extremely irritating!!!

The way you work with KDE4 is (very?) different from the way you work with KDE3. Once you've tried the former you'll realise the limitations of the single folder desktop which occupies the whole screen. That's just one minor example but often overlooked by critics. For some, KDE 4 is immediately useful. Others struggle because like me, they initially try and use it in the same way the did for kde3 or xp. 0.02 Euros míos. Cheers. Lynn x -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 19 December 2008 15:44:28 lynn wrote:

On Friday 19 December 2008 23:06:57 Clayton wrote:

...

...

This afternoon, I installed OpenSUSE 11.1 & KDE 4. It lasted about 1 hour and I'm reinstalling from scratch with KDE3. The more I'm exposed to KDE 4, the more I hate it. It is one #%$%@#$% piece of crap!!!

It is extremely irritating!!!

The way you work with KDE4 is (very?) different from the way you work with KDE3. Once you've tried the former you'll realise the limitations of the single folder desktop which occupies the whole screen.

I was getting along fine with KDE4 on openSuSE 11.0, but when I updated to 11.1 on my laptop today, everything went to hell. At logon, it started 4 or 5 applications that had been running in a previous session, but without any caption bars. So no way to move them or close them. Instead of the 8 desktops I had configured, it put everything on one, and a full-screen instance of Konqueror covered up all but the bottom few pixels of the panel at the bottom. While poking around there, trying to fix things, I somehow managed to close that panel (with the menu, etc.), and don't know how to get it back. This appears to be a per-user issue, because I can log on as root, with a KDE4 session, and everything is fine. It all looks as it should. What I'd really like to do is somehow delete my whole KDE4 configuration, and start over again with defaults. Does anyone here know how to do that? Thanks in advance! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 20 December 2008 01:13:45 Jerry Houston wrote:

I was getting along fine with KDE4 on openSuSE 11.0, but when I updated to 11.1 on my laptop today, everything went to hell. At logon, it started 4 or 5 applications that had been running in a previous session, but without any caption bars. So no way to move them or close them.

Sounds like kwin crashed. If this happens, try switching to a text console, login as the same user and do "DISPLAY=:0 /usr/bin/icewm"; then switch back to your desktop and do "kwin --replace" in a konsole. It's not advisable to restart kwin outside your desktop session because the newly started instance is not connected to session DBus, so it then doesn't get global shortcuts like alt-tab. The intermediate icewm gives you enough control over the desktop to focus a konsole. If you could then include any kwin references from ~/.xsession-errors or backtraces and report this as a bug against "KDE 4 Workspace" I'm sure our KWin developer will be very grateful.

Instead of the 8 desktops I had configured, it put everything on one, and a full-screen instance of Konqueror covered up all but the bottom few pixels of the panel at the bottom. While poking around there, trying to fix things, I somehow managed to close that panel (with the menu, etc.), and don't know how to get it back.

Right click on the desktop and Add Panel.

This appears to be a per-user issue, because I can log on as root, with a KDE4 session, and everything is fine. It all looks as it should.

What I'd really like to do is somehow delete my whole KDE4 configuration, and start over again with defaults. Does anyone here know how to do that?

mv ~/.kde4 ~/.kde4-not. HTH Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan Cohen pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

2008/12/20 Jerry Houston :

...

What I'd really like to do is somehow delete my whole KDE4 configuration, and start over again with defaults. Does anyone here know how to do that?

$ rm -R .kde

That will only delete KDE3 settings _NOT_ KDE4 settings. It would be better to rename .kde4 .kde4-old just in case you need something. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 21 December 2008 15:54:50 Kai Ponte wrote:

...

The way you work with KDE4 is (very?) different from the way you work with KDE3. Once you've tried the former you'll realise the limitations of the single folder desktop which occupies the whole screen.

I fail to see how KDE 4.x is different in that regard from 3.x - you have a desktop. On the desktop you can drop folders/sub-folders.

I'm glad to enlighten you then. The difference is that in KDE 3 the chosen Desktop folder has to be a physical folder on your hard disk; in KDE 4 it can be a physical folder with some filter specified; a remote folder (smb://, fish://, webdav://, your media player or digital camera) or a completely virtual folder such as a search for files with a certain tag.

I can do that in 3.x and 4.x - the only difference I can see is that there's the non-clean grey area around the icons on the 4.x desktop.

And if you use the Folder View desktop type (not applet) you don't have the applet border to deal with. Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rob OpenSuSE wrote:

2008/12/21 Will Stephenson :

...

On Sunday 21 December 2008 15:54:50 Kai Ponte wrote:

...

I'm glad to enlighten you then.

As you seem to be doing well getting your head round KDE4, is there somewhere you would recommend to help get up to speed on it?

I've ran a whole number of versions, but almost always for 'testing' purposes in early 4.0 times, recently again with 4.1.3 in the OS| 11.1-RC1. It could be due to virtually always running buggy pre-release versions, but when I've tried to do things like reconfigure, it's not behaved as expected. I do really like the KDE4 version of Konqi, but it's just one part of desktop, and Firefox 3 performs rather well, and without change (or my better understanding) I'm going to end up finding a Dolphin-Free desktop.

I've used all kinds of DE's over years, from Apollo, Sunview, Suntools, Sun Broken Windows, Motif, KDE1, GNOME 1, KDE 2, KDE 3, Windows blah blah.. and KDE 4 is the first that has me looking for a manual.

That's because KDE 4 is so "intuitive". ;-) I agree that KDE 4 is not the latest & greatest. I certainly hope KDE3.x is around for a long time, because I don't think KDE is a satisfactory desktop, based on what I've seen of it. -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 21 December 2008 18:26:09 Rob OpenSuSE wrote:

As you seem to be doing well getting your head round KDE4, is there somewhere you would recommend to help get up to speed on it?

I've ran a whole number of versions, but almost always for 'testing' purposes in early 4.0 times, recently again with 4.1.3 in the OS| 11.1-RC1. It could be due to virtually always running buggy pre-release versions, but when I've tried to do things like reconfigure, it's not behaved as expected. I do really like the KDE4 version of Konqi, but it's just one part of desktop, and Firefox 3 performs rather well, and without change (or my better understanding) I'm going to end up finding a Dolphin-Free desktop.

I don't know exactly where you're having problems, but Userbase has plenty of general advice, see http://userbase.kde.org/An_introduction_to_KDE Since Plasma is the most obvious difference to KDE 3, there's a very detailed set of FAQs here: http://userbase.kde.org/Plasma Otherwise if you can describe how it didn't do what you wanted, I can try to explain. I guess you found the "Default Applications" module in Personal Settings where you can change the default File Manager away from Dolphin?

I've used all kinds of DE's over years, from Apollo, Sunview, Suntools, Sun Broken Windows, Motif, KDE1, GNOME 1, KDE 2, KDE 3, Windows blah blah.. and KDE 4 is the first that has me looking for a manual.

We are /trying/ to make things more intuitive, but we're also trying to do a lot more than those desktops did, so things like the Zooming UI and defining different Activities are in uncharted territory and will take a while longer to mature. I'm talking to as many people as possible about their experiences and passing that info back to the Plasma team. Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 21 December 2008 01:06:06 pm Rob OpenSuSE wrote:

What I want to do, is sit down for some hours with a guide, and a stable, solid version that does what it's meant to do, then may be I could be more specific.

+1 Though, as Will mentioned, some stuff is uncharted territory and it will take some time to get there. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Will Stephenson wrote:

On Sunday 21 December 2008 15:54:50 Kai Ponte wrote:

...

...

The way you work with KDE4 is (very?) different from the way you work with KDE3. Once you've tried the former you'll realise the limitations of the single folder desktop which occupies the whole screen.

I fail to see how KDE 4.x is different in that regard from 3.x - you have a desktop. On the desktop you can drop folders/sub-folders.

I'm glad to enlighten you then. The difference is that in KDE 3 the chosen Desktop folder has to be a physical folder on your hard disk; in KDE 4 it can be a physical folder with some filter specified; a remote folder (smb://, fish://, webdav://, your media player or digital camera) or a completely virtual folder such as a search for files with a certain tag.

Okay, not sure how that's different. However, I'll take your word for it.

...

I can do that in 3.x and 4.x - the only difference I can see is that there's the non-clean grey area around the icons on the 4.x desktop.

And if you use the Folder View desktop type (not applet) you don't have the applet border to deal with.

Folder > View > Desktop type. I'll mark that for when I go to 11. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan Cohen wrote:

2008/12/19 James Knott :

...

Clayton wrote:

...

...

2. I can NOT drag and drop a file from the desktop to either Konqueror or Dolphin. On the other hand I can do it among folders.

This afternoon, I installed OpenSUSE 11.1 & KDE 4. It lasted about 1 hour and I'm reinstalling from scratch with KDE3. The more I'm exposed to KDE 4, the more I hate it. It is one #%$%@#$% piece of crap!!!

It is extremely irritating!!!

Thank you for that constructive comment. Could you be more specific about what you did not like or what did not work for you? The current version in Suse (KDE 4.1) is an "early adopters" release and most of the issues with this version are fixed for KDE 4.2, which is the first KDE 4.x version that is meant for the end user. I would like to check that all your issues have been addressed and if not then I will file bugs. Thanks.

I'm not sure what bothered James specifically but I'll tell you what bothered me about kde4 and suse 11.1 in general: kde: 1. It does not remember settings from one session to another. I add things to the quick launch area and they're gone when I login. I add the "new tab" button to Konsole and its gone next session.. plus many others. 2. The task bar documentation says that there is a task list but there is no way to enable it in the dialog for the task bar settings... so no task list. 3. It is really hard to get the task bar to look right. It took me half an hour of fiddling around and still the clock is wrapped on two lines (neither of which I can see completely). 4. Neither Konqueror or Dolphin have a "picture" view mode for looking at my photographs. I'm not talking about icons.. but a proper photo browser. I'll really miss that (not really cause I'm not keeping kde4) Suse 11.1 itself. ( Fresh install on a thinkpad t61p with an nvidia card) 1. during the install it failed to write the boot loader. I was able to continue however. 2. after the install it regularly hangs starting the jexec service. However you have to boot the rescue disk, go into the shell and manually remove it from the various runlevels where it exists to get rid of it. 3. The system has locked up solid on me several times... nothing in the log. it was not pingable when locked up. 4. I suspended to disk (to see if it would work) and it seemed to suspend correctly but on resume it destroyed my boot partition! I had to reinstall and since I was there I figured out how to get past the bootloader failure: click the detailed options panel and select to install the bootloader on the mbr. argggg! 5. routinely when I logout of a session the screen just stays blank and I don't get the login screen. It seems that the (yast installed nvidia driver from nvidia repo) does not restart correclty. In these cases I have to reboot! 6. after being installed and working (sorta) for half a day the wireless network inexplicably stopped working! I try to connect to my wireless router and the icon does not show any activity. I have another machine that I'll use for work till I figure out what to do. I'll either go back to suse 10.3, or try Fedora 10. This has been the most disappointing Suse release I've ever tried and its cost me about 2 days of work time. Wendell Nichols -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan Cohen wrote:

2008/12/23 Wendell Nichols :

...

I'm not sure what bothered James specifically but I'll tell you what bothered me about kde4 and suse 11.1 in general:

kde: 1. It does not remember settings from one session to another. I add things to the quick launch area and they're gone when I login. I add the "new tab" button to Konsole and its gone next session.. plus many others.

My KDE 4.x installation is on Ubuntu, and it is nearly trunk, and I cannot reproduce this. So it is either Suse-specific or fixed.

...

2. The task bar documentation says that there is a task list but there is no way to enable it in the dialog for the task bar settings... so no task list.

A quick google did not turn this up for me. Can you provide a link? I will look into it. Thanks!

...

3. It is really hard to get the task bar to look right. It took me half an hour of fiddling around and still the clock is wrapped on two lines (neither of which I can see completely).

Please send to me a screenshot. I'll try to reproduce and file a bug if needed. Thank you!

...

4. Neither Konqueror or Dolphin have a "picture" view mode for looking at my photographs. I'm not talking about icons.. but a proper photo browser. I'll really miss that (not really cause I'm not keeping kde4)

I will file a wish-bug on that. Any particular features that you'd like in that mode?

...

Suse 11.1 itself. ( Fresh install on a thinkpad t61p with an nvidia card) 1. during the install it failed to write the boot loader. I was able to continue however. 2. after the install it regularly hangs starting the jexec service. However you have to boot the rescue disk, go into the shell and manually remove it from the various runlevels where it exists to get rid of it. 3. The system has locked up solid on me several times... nothing in the log. it was not pingable when locked up. 4. I suspended to disk (to see if it would work) and it seemed to suspend correctly but on resume it destroyed my boot partition! I had to reinstall and since I was there I figured out how to get past the bootloader failure: click the detailed options panel and select to install the bootloader on the mbr. argggg! 5. routinely when I logout of a session the screen just stays blank and I don't get the login screen. It seems that the (yast installed nvidia driver from nvidia repo) does not restart correclty. In these cases I have to reboot! 6. after being installed and working (sorta) for half a day the wireless network inexplicably stopped working! I try to connect to my wireless router and the icon does not show any activity.

I really am not the person to address those issues! But you should seriously file bugs on the bootloader issues: those seem serious.

...

I have another machine that I'll use for work till I figure out what to do. I'll either go back to suse 10.3, or try Fedora 10. This has been the most disappointing Suse release I've ever tried and its cost me about 2 days of work time.

I haven't used Fedora since FC6 but Fedora is known to be problematic. If you are looking for a trouble-free distro then either stick with Suse, or try one of the Debian-based distros.

Well there is some more to this story. I just didn't believe a dist could get through beta testing and be this bad so I redid the installation. I was careful to specify the mbr for the grub loader and this time I disabled the use of "images" in the install. This time things seem much more stable but I'm not going to do anything crazy like try to suspend or hibernate it :) wcn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Funny on my X61 everything works including wifi and suspend. The only mild issue I have is that the icons on the panel in kde-4 goes missing after a reboot. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:38 AM, Wendell Nichols wrote:

I posted here a week ago with several complaints about 11.1, some of which were legitimate and others which were just "whines".

Whines: -taskbar is hard to configure (I'll just get over myself on that) -Some kde4 application settings (konsole tab button for instance) seem to get lost between sessions. -konqueror no longer has a picture view mode, (I installed google picassa, which is quite nice).

Real problems: -The kernel shipped with 11.1 locks up on this machine. No messages to the console log nor anywhere else I looked. it locks up with the caps lock and wifi leds flashing alternately. The only recourse is to power cycle the machine. I dealt with this by downloading and installing kernel 2.6.28-9, which is pretty new, but is very stable so far on this machine. Note that I had to get nvidia drivers from their beta area for this kernel, but that is also true of the 2.6.27 kernel shipped with 11.1.

-the machine will not suspend to ram or disk. Suspend to ram fails and restarts right away. There is a log but nothing in it points to a culprit. Suspend do disk seems to work, but resume just locks up with a blank screen. Vt's are not available. I'll just get along without this until it gets fixed. I would be happy to coordinate and test fixes as they are available....

-Knetworkmanager simply does not work for wifi connections. My adapter is an intel 4965. It works perfectly (with kernels 2.6.26,27,28) using the traditional ifup/ifdown method when configured correctly. But knetworkmanager will not connect or show any signs of progress when connecting (you just see the green icon). It eventually prints this message in the knetworkmanager log:

Dec 29 00:08:34 bilbo NetworkManager: <WARN> wait_for_connection_expired(): Connection (2) /org/freedesktop/NetworkManagerSettings/Connection/0 failedto activate (timeout): (0) Connection was not provided by any settings service

I'll use ifup/down for now. I've no immediate plans to travel... I'll also "me too" the bug for this.

-Like most people with 64 bit machines I eagerly await a 64 bit java plugin for firefox. I'm currently running the 32 bit version of firefox and the plugin. Most things work this way, but not my juniper sslvpn connection. It gets segfaults in varous places, which I suspect is related to not having the correct version of some lib somewhere... I can also use vpnc for my vpn and it connects nicely and is reliable.

Hopefully other Thinkpad owners will find this useful.

wcn

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Regarding my complaints about suspend: The tests were done with the stock 11.1 kernel. Since my upgrade to 1.6.28-9 I find that it suspends to ram properly and to disk almost properly. The only problem with suspend to disk is that resume takes a LOOONG time. It beeps as soon as it restores ram, then twice more at intervals of about 60 seconds. Then resumes normally. I'll look into what causes that delay, I've heard of other people with that symptom. If I get satisfaction I'll post here... wcn Low Kian Seong wrote:

Funny on my X61 everything works including wifi and suspend. The only mild issue I have is that the icons on the panel in kde-4 goes missing after a reboot.

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:38 AM, Wendell Nichols wrote:

...

I posted here a week ago with several complaints about 11.1, some of which were legitimate and others which were just "whines".

Whines: -taskbar is hard to configure (I'll just get over myself on that) -Some kde4 application settings (konsole tab button for instance) seem to get lost between sessions. -konqueror no longer has a picture view mode, (I installed google picassa, which is quite nice).

Real problems: -The kernel shipped with 11.1 locks up on this machine. No messages to the console log nor anywhere else I looked. it locks up with the caps lock and wifi leds flashing alternately. The only recourse is to power cycle the machine. I dealt with this by downloading and installing kernel 2.6.28-9, which is pretty new, but is very stable so far on this machine. Note that I had to get nvidia drivers from their beta area for this kernel, but that is also true of the 2.6.27 kernel shipped with 11.1.

-the machine will not suspend to ram or disk. Suspend to ram fails and restarts right away. There is a log but nothing in it points to a culprit. Suspend do disk seems to work, but resume just locks up with a blank screen. Vt's are not available. I'll just get along without this until it gets fixed. I would be happy to coordinate and test fixes as they are available....

-Knetworkmanager simply does not work for wifi connections. My adapter is an intel 4965. It works perfectly (with kernels 2.6.26,27,28) using the traditional ifup/ifdown method when configured correctly. But knetworkmanager will not connect or show any signs of progress when connecting (you just see the green icon). It eventually prints this message in the knetworkmanager log:

Dec 29 00:08:34 bilbo NetworkManager: <WARN> wait_for_connection_expired(): Connection (2) /org/freedesktop/NetworkManagerSettings/Connection/0 failedto activate (timeout): (0) Connection was not provided by any settings service

I'll use ifup/down for now. I've no immediate plans to travel... I'll also "me too" the bug for this.

-Like most people with 64 bit machines I eagerly await a 64 bit java plugin for firefox. I'm currently running the 32 bit version of firefox and the plugin. Most things work this way, but not my juniper sslvpn connection. It gets segfaults in varous places, which I suspect is related to not having the correct version of some lib somewhere... I can also use vpnc for my vpn and it connects nicely and is reliable.

Hopefully other Thinkpad owners will find this useful.

wcn

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Wendell Nichols schreef:

[snip]

-the machine will not suspend to ram or disk. Suspend to ram fails and restarts right away. There is a log but nothing in it points to a culprit. Suspend do disk seems to work, but resume just locks up with a blank screen. Vt's are not available. I'll just get along without this until it gets fixed. I would be happy to coordinate and test fixes as they are available....

[snip] wcn

iirc. The suspend to disk option uses the swapspace, but that has to be big enough to be able to do that. -- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (M9.) (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.27.8-1-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 Systeem: openSUSE 11.2 Alpha 0 (x86_64) KDE: 4.1.3 (KDE 4.1.3) "release 4.18" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner wrote:

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:38:32AM -0700, Wendell Nichols wrote:

...

I posted here a week ago with several complaints about 11.1, some of which were legitimate and others which were just "whines".

Whines: -taskbar is hard to configure (I'll just get over myself on that) -Some kde4 application settings (konsole tab button for instance) seem to get lost between sessions. -konqueror no longer has a picture view mode, (I installed google picassa, which is quite nice).

Real problems: -The kernel shipped with 11.1 locks up on this machine. No messages to the console log nor anywhere else I looked. it locks up with the caps lock and wifi leds flashing alternately. The only recourse is to power cycle the machine.

A panic... Any chance of getting the Oops / panic message?

No panic message. The machine just locks up solid with the wifi and caps lock leds flashing alternately. I know how to deal with a kernel panic, but this but seems to put the kernel to sleep. Its not in a tight loop or the fan would come on eventually. There are no messages in the logs around the time the machine locks up. its just dead :(

...

I dealt with this by downloading and installing kernel 2.6.28-9, which is pretty new, but is very stable so far on this machine. Note that I had to get nvidia drivers from their beta area for this kernel, but that is also true of the 2.6.27 kernel shipped with 11.1.

No, the regular NVIDIA repo will work for 11.1.

Ciao, Marcus

If you recompile the 11.1 kernel (for instance to turn on tracing cause the kernel's buggy) then the yast provided driver no longer works. so you have to get one from nvidia and install it by hand :( wcn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Wendell Nichols wrote:

I posted here a week ago with several complaints about 11.1, some of which were legitimate and others which were just "whines".

Whines: -taskbar is hard to configure (I'll just get over myself on that) -Some kde4 application settings (konsole tab button for instance) seem to get lost between sessions. -konqueror no longer has a picture view mode,

One would say that the loss of a picture view mode, as well as loss of the Meta Info mode, is a fully legitimate reason for a feature request. Per Inge Oestmoen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2008/12/23 Patrick Shanahan :

...

4. Neither Konqueror or Dolphin have a "picture" view mode for looking at my photographs. I'm not talking about icons.. but a proper photo browser. I'll really miss that (not really cause I'm not keeping kde4)

I believe the *designated* photo/graphics viewer for KDE4 is gwenview, not the file handler, dolphin, or the browser, konqueror.

The linux (*nix) way is many small utilities that do simple things very well, not one program that does everything half-assed, like the monstrosity....

Konqueror had been the do-all superhero of KDE in KDE 3. And it did it all well, for the most part. I agree that the picture-viewer should be brought back. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه‍-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü

My issue was a fresh install of the KDE4 LiveCD. I updated and added the nVidia and other repos and installed Mplayer and stuff. Then, I expanded the desktop folder until it was the whole desktop(and at that point, none of the widgets would work. After a reboot to start the new nVidia modules(which may not have been neccessary, but it's a new build), my folder view was gone. Can't find it anywhere, and couldn't find an "intuitive" way to fix it. Right clicking on the desktop showed no quick, useful options to recover it. So, time for a wipe and a fresh install off the DVD with KDE3 to see how that goes. Everyone needs to honestly see if there is a compelling reason to even upgrade. So far, I've seen very little. Most of the big improvements were in 11.0. And, with 11.2 looking to be 8-10 months out, I may just stay wit 11.0 until I can figure out this KDE4 stuff on a non-production machine. No matter what the KDE4 guys say about it's a new or better way, if it gets in the way of me being productive, then to me it's a deal breaker until I can find the time to figure it out. Some have already gotten to that point. I may end up that way, but I can't see it happening anytime soon. KDE3 just works for me, and while that may be because I am used to it, like I said, any upgrade needs a compelling reason. Again, I haven't seen any yet. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dotan Cohen wrote:

2008/12/24 Larry Stotler :

...

Everyone needs to honestly see if there is a compelling reason to even upgrade. So far, I've seen very little. Most of the big improvements were in 11.0. And, with 11.2 looking to be 8-10 months out, I may just stay wit 11.0 until I can figure out this KDE4 stuff on a non-production machine.

I agree with this point completely. The best line of action for those who are not 'early adopters' is to wait for KDE 4.2 before upgrading. KDE 4.2 will be the first KDE 4.x ready for the end user.

And that begs the question of why it's the default KDE desktop, when it's not ready and will frustrate many users. -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2008/12/24 Felix Miata :

On 2008/12/24 07:38 (GMT-0500) James Knott composed: One can only hope we can convince Novell to retain a KDE3 option in 11.2. KDE4 is just too different, maturity notwithstanding.

They announced any KDE 3 release after 11.1 will be a community effort, and that they hope the community do release it as such. The Novell KDE team probably need to focus on getting KDE 4.3 right and something that most ppl will prefer, to KDE 3. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 1:14 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote:

I agree with this point completely. The best line of action for those who are not 'early adopters' is to wait for KDE 4.2 before upgrading. KDE 4.2 will be the first KDE 4.x ready for the end user.

I'm not sure that 4.2 will be there. Most of 4.2 has been backported to 11.1 as it is. Maybe 4.3. Who knows? Of course, I guess it's unreasonable for us to expect that all of what we use in KDE3 will ever be ported, but.......

I would go even further and call it a bug if it is not intuitive. So please be specific about what is not intuitive, so that I can file bugs.Thanks.

Will do what I can. Moving this weekend into a bigger place so that I can finally get space to setup my other machines like my Macs. Can't wait to see how KDE4 runs on an old PCI Powermac. Time is the biggest issue. My son's in Boy Scouts so that kills a lot of my weekends... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2008/12/24 Dotan Cohen :

2008/12/24 Larry Stotler :

I agree with this point completely. The best line of action for those who are not 'early adopters' is to wait for KDE 4.2 before upgrading. KDE 4.2 will be the first KDE 4.x ready for the end user.

What KDE 4.2? The 11.1 is KDE-4.1.3 with backports. The next OS release will include 4.3. Automatic Session save did work for me, I noticed because I hate it, and like to "Start Session" from a manual save. It's in Control Centre -> KDE Components -> Session Managment. I've no idea about configuring the panel at the bottom, because when I tried in 11.1-RC1, it ended badly. I had to scrub all the changes, and re-create the user data, back to that made for a first login. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2008-12-19 at 21:57 +0100, Clayton wrote:

I've chosen to make mine the same size as my desktop, and it's pointing to /home/$USER/Desktop... so I effectively have the traditional desktop behavior that we are all used to.

I did the same. Great. > 4. I could ping but firefox could not find the site. After fiddling

around for a while I went to the about:config and change the status from false to true of

network.dns.disableIPv6

This problem I had was solved in a better way. ipv6 was checked on where the NIC configuration is. After I diable ipv6, firefox works without any modification, the same konqueror

The Community repositories are there and populated with all the extras you need/want.

The community repository problem I had was also related to ipv6. As soon I unchecked all the repositories showed up. Clayton thanks for your help. Now I'm going to setup compiz and mythtv and if everything works OK I'll do the switch. -=terry=- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

I agree, the devs and a whole lot of the community helped make sure 11.1 was ready to go. Despite my misgivings, kde4 worked fairly well. It is far from done yet, but it has come a long, long way. I used it for sever week during beta testing and aside from missing features and the annoyance of requiring a lot more ctrl+alt+clicks it was neat.

I wonder if the one arm users of KDE4 have a way of doing ctrl+alt+clicks. -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2008/12/20 Ken Schneider :

David C. Rankin pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

...

I agree, the devs and a whole lot of the community helped make sure 11.1 was ready to go. Despite my misgivings, kde4 worked fairly well. It is far from done yet, but it has come a long, long way. I used it for sever week during beta testing and aside from missing features and the annoyance of requiring a lot more ctrl+alt+clicks it was neat.

I wonder if the one arm users of KDE4 have a way of doing ctrl+alt+clicks.

1) Which Ctrl-Alt-clicks did you find that you needed to make often? 2) As a disabled user, I am disappointed in the lack of disability support in KDE 4 as well. When you find disability issues in KDE 4, please file a bug and cc me with the bug number. Thanks! -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه‍-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü

2008/12/22 Graham Anderson :

On Saturday 20 December 2008 01:20:40 David C. Rankin wrote:

One click on the "Show plasma dashboard" button brings the folder view applets to the front plane and into focus, without minimising any open windows.

I tried that, and it just appeared to show the desktop, without program windows.

A second click on any of the folders launches a dolphin session in split view mode with the selected target in one pane and my home in the other. The locations of the folder applets can be configured to work with a whole load of handy locations courtesy of our friends the kio slaves. ( ssh(fish), ipod, smb, to name just a few)

But how on earth are we supposed to know that? What would happen would be, I'd find configuring the panel at bottom go wrong, then I'd blunder around trying things. The terminology like "plasma dashboard" would not explain to me, what it was meant to do. I'd not think of clicking on a folder, and as I had default SuSE desktop, what was shown was not of particular interest to me. May be, it needs some kind of tutorial mode, a bit like games, which guide you through the basics to get you started? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2008/12/22 Sven Burmeister :

Am Montag, 22. Dezember 2008 13:27:15 schrieb Rob OpenSuSE:

...

2008/12/22 Graham Anderson :

...

On Saturday 20 December 2008 01:20:40 David C. Rankin wrote:

One click on the "Show plasma dashboard" button brings the folder view applets to the front plane and into focus, without minimising any open windows.

I tried that, and it just appeared to show the desktop, without program windows.

That's its purpose, show the desktop and its applets and not the program windows. Why would you click on a button to show the program windows you see already anyway?

The point was... "Then What?" was what I thinking. I tried it, and it appeared to do similar to the 'show desktop' icon.

...

...

A second click on any of the folders launches a dolphin session in split view mode with the selected target in one pane and my home in the other. The locations of the folder applets can be configured to work with a whole load of handy locations courtesy of our friends the kio slaves. ( ssh(fish), ipod, smb, to name just a few)

But how on earth are we supposed to know that?

How did you know that you could right-click the desktop in kde3? How did you know that one can drag and drop?

This is the nub, through previous experience with other window systems. There was an expectation that right clicking would show what I could do with the object. Similarly with Drag N' Drop, it's a feature common to many systems, actually one that tend to neglect, in favour of lower mouse movement context menu. When things don't work as you expect, it's very unsettling and confusing. KDE 4's the biggest change I've seen, KDE 1, 2 & 3 all basically evolved on, you could upgrade, not be suprised but see improvements. With KDE 4, it's so different, you're not sure anymore how things 'work'.

...

I'd not think of clicking on a folder, and as I had default SuSE desktop, what was shown was not of particular interest to me.

Since it contains the same icons as kde3 did, I guess you deleted all of them on your default kde3 desktop too?

I didn't know at time what the default KDE 3.5.10 desktop would give me, in 11.1, as I'd not installed it. Though a clean desktop is something I like, I wouldn't actually delete stuff until I'd had a good play, and understood what the things were there for.

...

May be, it needs some kind of tutorial mode, a bit like games, which guide you through the basics to get you started?

http://help.opensuse.org/kde4/

More of the usual terse stuff, a page I've viewed many times before and been disappointed by. I've read this kind of pointer, over and over again, since the -rc series of 4.0, and read articles on the changes, and no matter how simple it seems, in practical use I end up befuddled, when I really try to use it. This could be, because I've always so far been running buggy versions, with unpredictable behaviours. I'm not one of the "usual suspects", I'm actually willing to take a proper look at KDE4 again, and put some effort in. Just that pointing to a mini-tutorial like you have done, which is 1 page summary, is frankly, patronising. There really must be somewhere, some kind of guide with exercises, that don't overload the KDE 3 converter with buzz words like Plasma, Phonon, Dashboard, and that name for the photo-realistic icon set, which I've now totally forgotten. I can't seriously use KDE-4.1.3 as delivered in 11.1. Desktops are meant to be a time saving tool, something that enables me to get stuff done, not a time sink that gets in the way. I don't have the time to join KDE mail lists, and learn how the features work through following development. So please, if anyone has found some really good materials, for self training in KDE4 then please post links. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 21 December 2008 11:37:27 pm Graham Anderson wrote:

On Saturday 20 December 2008 01:20:40 David C. Rankin wrote:

...

This was discussed on factory quite a bit - no satisfactory answer was ever given for what practical purpose the desktop folder served other than making it more difficult to set up a regular desktop.

It simply amazes me that people keep repeating this drivel that the desktop folder has no purpose, is not practical, or whatever. Is it just the trend to bash KDE4 at the moment without engaging the brain for a few seconds?

One of the default panel buttons on pretty much every distro that ships KDE4 is the "Show plasma dashboard" button. This button in conjunction with one or more desktop folder applets makes for a rather nice and intuitive (in my not so humble opinion) work-flow for file browsing and management.

One click on the "Show plasma dashboard" button brings the folder view applets to the front plane and into focus, without minimising any open windows. A second click on any of the folders launches a dolphin session in split view mode with the selected target in one pane and my home in the other. The locations of the folder applets can be configured to work with a whole load of handy locations courtesy of our friends the kio slaves. ( ssh(fish), ipod, smb, to name just a few)

Simply bringing the icons/folders into focus without interrupting the current desktops' active windows & work-flow is in itself a massive improvement over KDE3. Throw in the configurable options and what you have is an order of magnitude better than the KDE3 desktop.

Graham

It seems that we need printed (printable) manual for KDE4 with examples how to use it. Most of what you explained is somewhat hidden. For instance "Show plasma dashboard" was empty many times I pressed it, so I quitted to look at it. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 14:35, Sven Burmeister wrote:

Am Montag, 22. Dezember 2008 06:37:27 schrieb Graham Anderson:

...

On Saturday 20 December 2008 01:20:40 David C. Rankin wrote:

...

This was discussed on factory quite a bit - no satisfactory answer was ever given for what practical purpose the desktop folder served other than making it more difficult to set up a regular desktop.

It simply amazes me that people keep repeating this drivel that the desktop folder has no purpose, is not practical, or whatever. Is it just the trend to bash KDE4 at the moment without engaging the brain for a few seconds?

It's not "people", it's "the same people over and over again". They are stuck and annoyed because the world is moving on without them. Chaps, please let us try and let this die. We are getting tired of reading the same compliants in different threads all the time.

ne... -- Registered Linux User # 125653 (http://counter.li.org) Now accepting personal mail for GMail invites. Fred Allen - "I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Am Samstag, 20. Dezember 2008 01:20:40 schrieb David C. Rankin:

Teruel de Campo MD wrote:

...

3. After the initial installation there was like a transparent image where firefox, thrashcan were on. I close it and I do not know where it is now. I believe it was called <desktop folder> Also what is the purpose of that desktop folder?

This was discussed on factory quite a bit - no satisfactory answer was ever given for what practical purpose the desktop folder served other than making it more difficult to set up a regular desktop. It also does not scale over vnc. The best explanation was that you can create more of them so you can have different desktop configurations? Obviously it was someone's pet that got pushed through.

The folderview is for people who work on more than one project at a time and were stuck with kde3's inflexibility regarding the desktop and its arrangement/functionality. KDE4 offers the kde3-way and on top of that folderview. Since folderview is a lot more flexible and gives the user a choice how many projects and where those are saved, it is default. http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/SuSE/2008-12/msg00559.html Reading the introduction when/before using a new version helps usually too. http://help.opensuse.org/kde4/ Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org