** Reply to message from Stan Glasoe <srglasoe@comcast.net> on Mon, 8 Aug 2005 07:18:31 -0500

...

Hi, everyone.

Was using 9.2. Just upgraded to 9.3 but problems.

I formatted the drive and did a clean install. At the same time I added a video card (previously was using the on-board chip). The video card is a GeForce FX5500 PCI card ,128 MB memory, by PNY technologies (please note, that's PCI, not PCI-e). The MB does not have an AGP slot so I had to get a PCI video card. <snip> SuSE recognizes the card, but it absolutely will not let me configure it (set resolution or number of colors) and it will not let me set my monitor to the correct brand and model.

gil@phred:~> su Password:

On Sunday 07 August 2005 7:30 pm, Gil Weber wrote: phred:/home/gil # init 3

...

phred:/home/gil # sax2 SaX: initializing please wait... SaX: ups lost card during probing... abort With the init 3, you have shutdown the X server and have a better chance of correctly configuring the video card.

phred:/home/gil # init 5

To get back into X after configuring your video card.

...

Gil

Stan

Stan, thanks. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but nothing's happening. Here is the readout from the shell using your commands: gil@phred:~> su Password: phred:/home/gil # init 3 phred:/home/gil # sax2 SaX: initializing please wait... SaX: ups lost card during probing... abort phred:/home/gil # Nothing happens. I still can't get into a configuation screen to set the video card or monitor. Any other ideas? Or am I doing something wrong? Thx Gil

** Reply to message from Stan Glasoe <srglasoe@comcast.net> on Mon, 8 Aug 2005 08:50:05 -0500 Stan, comments inserted into your latest reply. Gil

On Monday 08 August 2005 8:21 am, Gil Weber wrote:

...

Stan, thanks. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but nothing's happening. Here is the readout from the shell using your commands:

gil@phred:~> su Password: phred:/home/gil # init 3 phred:/home/gil # sax2 In the system BIOS, did you disable the onboard video? If not, please do so now...

Yes, disabled before I installed the new sound card. Set the BIOS to "PCI."

Instead do a "sax2 -l" without the quotes. That's a lower case L, not a numeral 1. Should bring up a 640x480 screen that allows you to proceed.

Nope. When I enter sax2 -1 all it does is bring up a list of the various results that one would get by entering the additional qualifiers after "sax2." It's only a list. It does not bring up a configuration screen.

There's also the "-m 0=xxx" parameter where you specify the module to use. I believe for an Nvidia you'd use "-m 0=nv".

phred:/home/gil # sax2 -l -m 0=nv (for example).

Are you following the Nvidia install instructions for SuSE 9.3? I'm coming from mainly ATI experience here but this shouldn't be all that different getting the initial display functioning. You can always screw-up the system later messing with the real video drivers! :)

Have not tried these additional options. Honestly, I don't know about any Nvidia install instructions. When I did the first online update after the install I told it to get the Nvidia driver. I assumed (???) it installed automatically since if I do another on-line update the Nvidia driver is no longer listed as an available download. Is there something I have to do to install the Nvidia driver? If yes, that sure as heck was not made clear during the on-line update! :o(

...

SaX: initializing please wait... SaX: ups lost card during probing... abort phred:/home/gil #

Nothing happens. I still can't get into a configuation screen to set the video card or monitor.

Any other ideas? Or am I doing something wrong? Which PCI slot is the card in? I'd recommend the slot closest to the power supply connector on the mainboard. That's usually the primary or first slot and has the shortest signal path and gets good power. Another question is the power supply's power. You've added a power drain to the system that wasn't there before. Don't know how loaded this system is (18 hard drives? 4 DVD burners? 8 NICs? etc) so that could be an issue.

It's in the farthest slot to keep it away from processor heat sink. But there are only 3 card slots (it's a small case). Very simple computer. One HD, one DVD burner, one sound card, one video card. That's it. The network card is an on-board chip. Power supply is probably 250 or maybe 300 watts. Should certainly be enough. Thx

** Reply to message from Stan Glasoe <srglasoe@comcast.net> on Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:56:10 -0500 (snip)

...

Honestly, I don't know about any Nvidia install instructions. When I did the first online update after the install I told it to get the Nvidia driver. I assumed (???) it installed automatically since if I do another on-line update the Nvidia driver is no longer listed as an available download.

Is there something I have to do to install the Nvidia driver? If yes, that sure as heck was not made clear during the on-line update! :o(

The only additional thing I believe is to make sure that "nv" is replaced with "nvidia" in the "Device" section of the /etx/X11/xorg.conf file for 3D support.

Hey, maybe you're on to something. Here is the printout of that file (I assume you really meant /etc/X11/xorg.conf)? :o) I do not see ANY "nvidia" OR "nv" in this file. Does that mean I am not using a proper driver for the card? If yes, how do I get the Nvidia or nv driver into this file? Where the heck did SuSE put it when I did the on-line update? Gil # generic XFree86 4.x configuration file Section "Files" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/truetype/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/URW/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/uni/" FontPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/" ModulePath "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules" RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" InputDevices "/dev/ttyS0" InputDevices "/dev/ttyS1" InputDevices "/dev/ttyS2" InputDevices "/dev/ttyS3" InputDevices "/dev/ttyS4" InputDevices "/dev/ttyS5" InputDevices "/dev/ttyS6" InputDevices "/dev/ttyS7" InputDevices "/dev/ttyS8" InputDevices "/dev/psaux" InputDevices "/dev/logibm" InputDevices "/dev/sunmouse" InputDevices "/dev/atibm" InputDevices "/dev/amigamouse" InputDevices "/dev/atarimouse" InputDevices "/dev/inportbm" InputDevices "/dev/gpmdata" InputDevices "/dev/usbmouse" InputDevices "/dev/adbmouse" InputDevices "/dev/input/mice" InputDevices "/dev/input/event0" EndSection Section "ServerFlags" Option "AllowMouseOpenFail" Option "BlankTime" "0" EndSection Section "Module" Load "dbe" Load "extmod" Load "glx" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Driver "kbd" Identifier "Keyboard[0]" Option "Protocol" "Standard" Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" Option "XkbKeycodes" "xfree86" Option "XkbModel" "pc104" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Driver "mouse" Identifier "Mouse[1]" Option "Protocol" "explorerps/2" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "Buttons" "7" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "Monitor" HorizSync 25-40 Identifier "Monitor[0]" ModelName "Initial" VendorName "Initial" VertRefresh 47-75 UseModes "Modes[0]" EndSection Section "Modes" Identifier "Modes[0]" Modeline "640x480" 31.5 640 656 720 840 480 481 484 500 # 6. Try Modeline "640x480" 31.5 640 680 720 864 480 488 491 521 # 5. Try Modeline "640x480" 28 640 664 760 800 480 491 493 525 # 4. Try Modeline "640x480" 28.32 640 664 760 800 480 491 493 525 # 3. Try Modeline "640x480" 25.18 640 664 760 800 480 491 493 525 # 2. Try Modeline "640x480" 25.175 640 664 760 800 480 491 493 525 # 1. Try EndSection Section "Monitor" HorizSync 28-33 Identifier "Monitor[vmware]" ModelName "Initial" VendorName "Initial" VertRefresh 43-72 UseModes "Modes[vmware]" EndSection Section "Modes" Identifier "Modes[vmware]" Modeline "800x600" 29.38 800 816 896 992 600 601 604 617 EndSection Section "Monitor" HorizSync 31-48 Identifier "Monitor[vesa]" ModelName "VESA" VendorName "VESA" VertRefresh 50-60 EndSection # Screen Section for module X support # ------------------------------------- Section "Screen" SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "800x600" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "800x600" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 32 Modes "800x600" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "800x600" EndSubSection Device "Device[0]" Identifier "Screen[0]" Monitor "Monitor[0]" EndSection # Screen Section for fbdev support # ---------------------------------- Section "Screen" SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "default" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 15 Modes "default" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 15 Modes "default" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "default" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 32 Modes "default" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "default" EndSubSection Device "Device[fbdev]" Identifier "Screen[fbdev]" Monitor "Monitor[0]" EndSection # Screen Section for vesa support # ---------------------------------- Section "Screen" SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "default" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "default" EndSubSection Device "Device[vesa]" Identifier "Screen[vesa]" Monitor "Monitor[vesa]" EndSection # Screen Section for vmware support # ---------------------------------- Section "Screen" SubSection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "800x600" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "800x600" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "800x600" EndSubSection Device "Device[vmware]" Identifier "Screen[vmware]" Monitor "Monitor[vmware]" EndSection # Device Sections... # ------------------- Section "Device" Driver "ChangeMe" Identifier "Device[0]" BusID "2:10:0" # device_options Option "sw_cursor" "on" EndSection Section "Device" Driver "fbdev" Identifier "Device[fbdev]" BusID "2:10:0" # fbdev_options Option "ShadowFB" "off" EndSection Section "Device" Driver "vesa" #Option "DefaultRefresh" Identifier "Device[vesa]" EndSection Section "Device" Driver "vmware" Identifier "Device[vmware]" EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Layout[all]" InputDevice "Keyboard[0]" "CoreKeyboard" InputDevice "Mouse[1]" "CorePointer" Option "Xinerama" "off" Screen "Screen[fbdev]" EndSection

...

...

Which PCI slot is the card in? I'd recommend the slot closest to the power supply connector on the mainboard. That's usually the primary or first slot and has the shortest signal path and gets good power. Another question is the power supply's power. You've added a power drain to the system that wasn't there before. Don't know how loaded this system is (18 hard drives? 4 DVD burners? 8 NICs? etc) so that could be an issue.

It's in the farthest slot to keep it away from processor heat sink. But there are only 3 card slots (it's a small case). Very simple computer. One HD, one DVD burner, one sound card, one video card. That's it. The network card is an on-board chip. I advocate (which means try it at least once to humor me) putting it in the closest slot since it is usually higher priority, cleaner power, etc. Heat shouldn't be an issue IF all the fans are working correctly.

...

Power supply is probably 250 or maybe 300 watts. Should certainly be enough. Should be OK. Seems a light enough load. Still, humor me and put the ding-dang video card in the first slot at least once and see if it gets configured using the sax2 settings noted earlier.

OK. I'll move the card while you look at that config file and tell me if I'm trying to use this card without a proper driver. Thx! Gil

** Reply to message from Stan Glasoe <srglasoe@comcast.net> on Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:56:10 -0500 Stan, more to report when I moved the video card: (snipping)

...

...

Which PCI slot is the card in? I'd recommend the slot closest to the power supply connector on the mainboard. That's usually the primary or first slot and has the shortest signal path and gets good power. Another question is the power supply's power. You've added a power drain to the system that wasn't there before. Don't know how loaded this system is (18 hard drives? 4 DVD burners? 8 NICs? etc) so that could be an issue.

It's in the farthest slot to keep it away from processor heat sink. But there are only 3 card slots (it's a small case). Very simple computer. One HD, one DVD burner, one sound card, one video card. That's it. The network card is an on-board chip. I advocate (which means try it at least once to humor me) putting it in the closest slot since it is usually higher priority, cleaner power, etc. Heat shouldn't be an issue IF all the fans are working correctly.

...

Power supply is probably 250 or maybe 300 watts. Should certainly be enough. Should be OK. Seems a light enough load. Still, humor me and put the ding-dang video card in the first slot at least once and see if it gets configured using the sax2 settings noted earlier.

...

Thx Stan

OK, I moved the video card from slot 2 to slot 1 (remember, it's a small case). But upon restart the computer crashed. It would not load the GUI. Got part way through the boot up and came to a point where it asked me for user name and then my password. I did that and then entered "startx." The screen flashed and then up came a whole bunch more lines of text ending with "Fatal error" text and I could go no farther. I turned off the pooter and tried again twice. Same thing. So I put the card back into slot 2 and the computer started up fine!! The video still sucks, but at least the computer is running. So, what do you think, coach? The file you told me to look in has no reference to either Nvidia or nv, and when I switch PCI slots the pooter won't boot and crashes. VERY strange. Gil

** Reply to message from Stan Glasoe <srglasoe@comcast.net> on Mon, 8 Aug 2005 12:34:48 -0500 Deep sigh.... :o( No good news, Stan. Comments inserted into your e-mail. Gil (snips)

- Power off.

- Put the video card back in the first PCI slot.

- When the system boots up to the grub/lilo choices enter "3" without quotes in the boot command line. Hit enter.

- Login as root.

- Enter "sax2 -l -m 0=nv" without quotes, at the command prompt, press enter. Remember that's a lower case ell not a numeral one.

- We should see the sax2 config window and you should be able to choose your GeForce FX 5500 there.

Did all of that exactly as you instructed. Entered the "3" at the screen where you have the "boot options" line. Then I had my wife watch me enter the keystrokes you list above. Up scrolled all those lines of text you see when you press <escape> during the boot up. Then it halted and asked me to log in. I did as root and entered the command. Got the same error message that I posted originally: <ups lost card during probing... abort>

- Verify the monitor config while you're at it.

Never got the chance. :o(

If these steps don't work then power off and put the card back in the PCI slot you had it in and start at the grub/lilo step.

OK, so after it did not work in slot 1 I moved the video card back to slot 2 and tried again. Same results exactly as above. Same error message. First I tried it entering the "3" and then logging in as root. Entered the special command and got the same results. Then I tried a normal boot and logged in as root, then opened a shell, and then entered your "sax2 -l -m 0=nv" command. Same result. <ups lost card during probing...abort>. Please also note: This video card has two ports where you can plug in monitors. So I called PNY to ask if it made any difference which one I used. They said it did NOT matter. So I switched the monitor over to the other plug and tried everything again with the card in both slots 1 and 2. Same results as before. Same <ups lost card during probing...abort>. So, I've tried with the card in slot 1 and slot 2. I've tried using "3" in the boot options line and I've tried booting without any special options. I've tried with the monitor plugged into both ports on the video card. I don't know what else to do! By the way, PNY tech support is useless. The do not speak "Linux" and offer no assistance to Linux users. Gil

** Reply to message from "Carl E. Hartung" <suselinux@cehartung.com> on Mon, 8 Aug 2005 16:46:06 -0400 Hi, Carl. Thanks for reply. Comments inserted into your message.

Hi Gil,

I Googled your error message and did a /lot/ of reading...

First, did you ever resolve this issue on your e-machine last October? The two SLE threads are nearly identical... lots of advice from lots of experienced sources leading to no positive conclusion that I could find.

No, never resolved. Last time I was trying with SuSE 9.2. Nothing worked and eventually I just put the card back in the box. Now I have just upgraded to 9.3, and I was hoping that in the intervening months there would be a new driver or something else in the on-line updates or from Nvidia that would make it worth another try.

Second, the general concensus seems to be that you'd better check the hardware for either a) being defective, b) not installed correctly or c) the host system is not compatible, possibly by design. Yes, some PC brands *still* force you to buy upgrade hardware from them by building in extra special "custom improvements" that make the systems proprietary.

Ah, yes. Well if it's defective I have no way to check. All of my computers have only Linux -- no Windoze here at all. It must be installed correctly (physically anyway) as I've tried it in 3 PCI slots. So even if one slot were problematic I don't think the others would be. (At least I am assuming they would not all be bad.) If PNY has intentionally designed the card to work only with Windoze then, again, I have no way to know. PNY customer support does not speak Linux, so they are of no help. They keep telling me to install Windoze. :o( If e-Machines has intentionally done something then, again, I don't know. They also are not conversant in Linux.

Finally, when you run "sax -l" (lower case 'L') you're telling it to run in basic plain vanilla VESA compliant VGA mode, which every PC card made in the world for the last decade knows how to 'speak'. In other words, when SaX2 probes and can't initialize basic VGA, you've got a fundamental hardware problem on your hands.

Well, that's hitting it right in the face! :o) Yast says the resolution is 1024X768, but I can tell you it sure as heck looks like 640X480. And the output I included in a previous e-mail all says 640X480 and 800X600. I will call PNY and see what they say. Thanks for the e-mail. I really do appreciate the comments. If it is a defective card that would certainly explain the frustrating time I'm having. Thanks. Gil

** Reply to message from Felix Miata <mrmazda@ij.net> on Mon, 08 Aug 2005 17:23:12 -0400 Felix wrote: (snipping)

Did you ever try Knoppix? It is particularly smart about video self configuration. If it fails too, it probably confirms bad hardware.

Sorry, long post. But I think maybe all of this will prove to be educational for the list in the future?? :o) Felix, Carl, Stan, and all.... I just followed Felix's suggestion about trying my problematic pooter and video card combination with Knoppix. Here are the results. FASCINATING! 1) I used Knoppix V 3.4. 2) Unlike SuSE which would not allow me access to a configuration screen for the video card, Knoppix gave me three options: 1024X768 (at which it was set), 800X600 and 640X480. I changed the resolution and, sure enough, it got worse with each of the two lower settings. I left it at 1024X768. 3) I could not find anything that identified my monitor. Info must be there, but I did not see it. 4) Knoppix allowed me to surf the Internet! I did nothing to setup the DNS numbers, etc. I am guessing that Knoppix is so smart that it found my DSL settings on the hard drive??? In any case, Knoppix is MUCH faster on the Internet. Knoppix accessed webpages MUCH faster than I can access the same pages with SuSE. I do not understand why. It is not a small difference in speed. It is a HUGE difference. 5) Knoppix scrolls butter-smooth on webpages in both the Konqueror and Mozilla browsers. Absolutely perfect performance. No shaking, no stuttering, no screen repainting as if the video or processor memory were totally overwhelmed. Again, this is a HUGE performance difference from what's happening with the same video card in SuSE. (Note, with SuSE I used Konqueror and Firefox 1.0.6 rather than Mozilla that was in Knoppix.) 6) When I move or resize windows using Knoppix it is smooth, clean, and there is absolutely no repainting of the moved or resized windows. Contrast that with what's happening with SuSE. Again, this is not a small difference in performance. It is mind-boggling how much better things are with Knoppix. 7) Open Office documents scroll MUCH faster and MUCH cleaner (no video repainting) with Knoppix than with SuSE. Again, HUGE difference in performance. So.... What the heck is going on with SuSE and my pooter? Why don't they love each other? :o( The video resolution in Knoppix is limited to 1024X768, which does not please me. But at least the pooter is usable. And every other problematic video characteristic that's been driving me so crazy using the video card with SuSE is not a problem at all with Knoppix. Is the performance difference because Knoppix is loaded in memory? Does that account for the staggering improvment over SuSE? Is there some reason why Knoppix "plays nice" with my video card whereas SuSE doesn't get along at all with the card? I really like SuSE, but this test would seem to indicate serious incompatibilities for my set up. Am I looking at this wrong? If I'm getting much better performance with Knoppix wouldn't that tend to indicate that it's not a video card problem and it's not a problem with the e-Machine? Does this indicate that it's a SuSE problem that was occuring with 9.2 and apparently has carried over to 9.3? Am I wrong to think that I am in a no-win situation if I want to use SuSE and this video card? Is my only option at this point using SuSE to pull the video card and either find another brand or go back to the on-board chip? Ah, questions, questions, questions. The poor boy is so confused. :o) Thanks, everyone, for hanging in with me on this. Gil

Gil, check out ftp://ftp.cise.ufl.edu/pub/mirrors/knoppix/knoppix-cheatcodes.txt. You need not be stuck at 1024x768, but to easily get higher you need to force the issue during boot. Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Gil Weber <gil@gilweber.com> [08-09-05 16:26]:

...

Ah, questions, questions, questions. The poor boy is so confused. :o)

Yes, confused, but not considering the steps you used earlier and failed. Consider looking at knoppix video config files (xorg...) and comparing them to the suse files. Look for the differences and educate yourself instead of throwing up your hands in despair.

Knoppix 3.4 uses a 2.4 kernel and XFree86. Knoppix is very highly optimized for speed to compensate for running off a CD. However, Knoppix happily running proves Gil's complaints about slowness are obviously valid, & so we just need to home in on solution(s) now that we know Linux can be fast on his hardware. Does 9.3 have a 2.4 kernel option he could try? Is his install an upgrade from something that used to have devfs instead of udev? What video driver is SuSE actually using? What driver is Knoppix using? Next ought to be trying Knoppix 3.9 (or whatever is current) with a kernel similar to SuSE, which I think also uses xorg. 3.4 is pretty old.

Both are linux systems and both are very similiar. Consider using the knoppix video configuration in the suse setup.

You may be discouraged trying that. Knoppix is a Debian. I've never yet figured out how they do so differently than SuSE that I can't get anything to change by editing the X config file and restarting X. Always it has a lower DPI than I want forced, and it doesn't accept change resolution options either.

REMEMBER to keep original copies so you can find your way back.

Absolutely. -- "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?" Matthew 6:27 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

On Wednesday 10 August 2005 12:13 am, Gil Weber wrote:

** Reply to message from Felix Miata <mrmazda@ij.net> on Tue, 09 Aug 2005 21:42:06 -0400

Hello again, everyone. More interesting news to report on my continuing search for better video resolution. :o) [...] I managed to put my hands on another PCI video card (emphasizing again, that's PCI, and not PCI-e). This one is a Genesis SV+ S3 Virge/DX. It is an older card but it is identified correctly by SuSE 9.3.

Howver, just as with the other PCI video card I cannot access a configuration screen for the video card or my monitor. I get the same error message as I have reported several times: <ups lost card during probing... abort>

And so it raises this question to the list: Is anyone out there successfully running **any** PCI video card (PCI, not PCI-e) with SuSE 9.2 or 9.3? ****************

Yes! [...]

I am really interested in finding out if anyone has had success with any PCI video card. Maybe this entire exercise has been doomed from the start? If so, at least we've all learned something! :o)

Thanks, everyone. Gil

Gil, Maybe it's the cards you are trying, maybe it's the motherboard, but I have a customer with a Voodoo3 PCI card working nicely at 1280x1024 on her LCD monitor. It worked in 9.2 and now in 9.3 without problems, so it's certainly not an incompatibility problem with SuSE. Are you disabling the onboard video in the BIOS of the motherboard? Are you specifying your video to be PCI, not AGP in the BIOS? regards, Lee -- --- KMail v1.8.2 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.2 --- Registered Linux User #225206 There's no problem so awful that you can't add some guilt to it and make it even worse! ...Calvin & Hobbes

I just had another thought on this craziness with my video cards. In one of the earlier postings I mentioned that I could not find any evidence that the NVidia driver had been loaded even though I had gotten the driver using the Yast on-line update. I was surprised that this generated so little response given the number of folks who have contributed to this thread. One post asked me to check a config file (xorg?? -- sorry, I can't remember) and in doing so I found there was no mention in that file of either NVidia or nv. In addition my monitor was identified as generic VESA. No mention of the brand name (Viewsonic). When I went back to check the on-line update in Yast the option to get the NVidia driver was no longer there. So I assumed this meant that the driver had been downloaded and installed, even if I could find no evidence of that fact. Now, is that something we should review again and reconsider? Another thing.... I do not know enough about hardware to know if the 2nd card I tried uses NVidia drivers. (Sorry if this is a stupid question.) If the 2nd card did not require the NVidia driver then we have evidence of two different kinds (chipsets) of PCI video cards not working. On the other hand, if both cards do require the NVidia driver and if that driver was never really installed despite my telling Yast to install it, have I been running in circles with no hope of getting those cards working right? Sorry if all of that rambles and is a bit incoherent. :o) I reinstalled 9.3 last night (another absolutely clean install). Should I try to download the NVidia driver again and see if this time it actually gets installed? And if yes, which file do I check to confirm that it's really installed? Thx! Gil

On Wed, 2005-08-10 at 09:48 -0400, Gil Weber wrote:

I just had another thought on this craziness with my video cards.

In one of the earlier postings I mentioned that I could not find any evidence that the NVidia driver had been loaded even though I had gotten the driver using the Yast on-line update. I was surprised that this generated so little response given the number of folks who have contributed to this thread.

One post asked me to check a config file (xorg?? -- sorry, I can't remember) and in doing so I found there was no mention in that file of either NVidia or nv.

In addition my monitor was identified as generic VESA. No mention of the brand name (Viewsonic).

When I went back to check the on-line update in Yast the option to get the NVidia driver was no longer there. So I assumed this meant that the driver had been downloaded and installed, even if I could find no evidence of that fact.

Now, is that something we should review again and reconsider?

Another thing.... I do not know enough about hardware to know if the 2nd card I tried uses NVidia drivers. (Sorry if this is a stupid question.) If the 2nd card did not require the NVidia driver then we have evidence of two different kinds (chipsets) of PCI video cards not working.

On the other hand, if both cards do require the NVidia driver and if that driver was never really installed despite my telling Yast to install it, have I been running in circles with no hope of getting those cards working right?

Sorry if all of that rambles and is a bit incoherent. :o)

I reinstalled 9.3 last night (another absolutely clean install). Should I try to download the NVidia driver again and see if this time it actually gets installed? And if yes, which file do I check to confirm that it's really installed?

Thx! Gil

Open the SuSE Hardware Tool and see what it reports the card to be. If you are forcing the card to use the nvidia driver it will cause problems. Also, if you looked at the xorg.conf file and found no reference to either nv or nvidia it leads me to believe it is not an nvidia card. Look in Section "Device" to see what it thinks the card is. If there is no Section "Device" than the config never got far enough to create a working "X". -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge

On Wednesday 10 August 2005 9:20 am, Gil Weber wrote: <snippage>

Lee, the MB does not have an AGP slot -- only 3 PCI slots. The on-board is disabled in the BIOS. The only two options in the BIOS are "on-board" and "PCI." Both video cards are identified by SuSE, but neither can be configured with SuSE. The video output of both is below acceptable standards (scrolling problems and other issues described in prior e-mails). Both video cards can be configured with Knoppix and video performance is superb with Knoppix. They work perfectly with Knoppix; they don't work with SuSE. Nothing else is different.

Hi Gil, I think your SuSE graphics card configuration files are corrupted; that the condition is probably a holdover from your previous unsuccessful card installation attempts. (Maybe some manual 'tweaking' or 'fine-tuning', too?) The error message "ups lost card during probing... abort" from SaX2 appears now regardless of the card installed, right? (please confirm) But Knoppix configures and runs. To me, that indicates that SaX2 is grabbing configuration data that it *thinks* is appropriate but isn't, so when it goes out to initialize the hardware it can't communicate with it and aborts. I wish I knew which files needed to be repaired or restored and what the best procedure would be to accomplish that, at this point, but I guess I'm going to have to sit back and learn right along with ya! OK? - Carl

Gil Weber wrote:

Correct. Both video cards run under Knoppix.

Knoppix 3.4 is an antique running an old XFree86. What happens with Knoppix 3.9 with xorg similar to SuSE 9.3?

But it happens even when I do an absolutely clean install.

That's with 9.3. What about with 9.0 or 9.1 to match Knoppix 3.4 in age? -- "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?" Matthew 6:27 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

On Wednesday 10 August 2005 09:20 am, Gil Weber wrote: [...]

Lee, the MB does not have an AGP slot -- only 3 PCI slots.

The on-board is disabled in the BIOS. The only two options in the BIOS are "on-board" and "PCI."

Both video cards are identified by SuSE, but neither can be configured with SuSE. The video output of both is below acceptable standards (scrolling problems and other issues described in prior e-mails).

Both video cards can be configured with Knoppix and video performance is superb with Knoppix.

They work perfectly with Knoppix; they don't work with SuSE. Nothing else is different.

How can it be a hardware issue when this is the case?

Gil =======

Gil, Usually the onboard is the AGP, if there is no slot available and many of the settings on different motherboards in the BIOS reflect that. How are you trying to configure the cards/monitor? If from KDE, then don't. Drop down to your terminal, ctrl-alt-F1, login as root, init 3 and sax2 -l That will put in text mode and the -l will give you a fresh low res initial screen. You might also try sax2 -r first to make it reread the hardware and see if things setup from there. If I were you, I think I would remove the old xorg.conf file/s first in case something is wrong from your previous attempts. Once thru with sax2 and back at the prompt do: init 5 to get back to your login screen. Whether the cards ran perfectly in Knoppix or not doesn't help you much here. If you are going to run Knoppix, then fine, you know they'll work, but I assume you intend to run SuSE, so that's where you should concentrate your attention. regards, Lee -- --- KMail v1.8.2 --- SuSE Linux Pro v9.2 --- Registered Linux User #225206 There's no problem so awful that you can't add some guilt to it and make it even worse! ...Calvin & Hobbes

I boot into run level 3 then I run sax2 as toot to setup the screen resolution and monitor. It detects the Nvidia video card. After exiting sax2, I run switch2nvidia as root or edit the xorg.conf file manaualy and change the "nv" to "nvidia". I exit root logon and logon as myself, then run startx to check everything out. Everything works fine then and the next time I reboot, a let it run automatically to run level 5. Art Gil Weber wrote:

** Reply to message from BandiPat <penguin0601@earthlink.net> on Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:13:23 -0400

Lee wrote:

...

Gil, Usually the onboard is the AGP, if there is no slot available and many of the settings on different motherboards in the BIOS reflect that. How are you trying to configure the cards/monitor? If from KDE, then don't. Drop down to your terminal, ctrl-alt-F1, login as root, init 3 and sax2 -l

That will put in text mode and the -l will give you a fresh low res initial screen. You might also try sax2 -r first to make it reread the hardware and see if things setup from there. If I were you, I think I would remove the old xorg.conf file/s first in case something is wrong from your previous attempts.

Once thru with sax2 and back at the prompt do: init 5 to get back to your login screen. Whether the cards ran perfectly in Knoppix or not doesn't help you much here. If you are going to run Knoppix, then fine, you know they'll work, but I assume you intend to run SuSE, so that's where you should concentrate your attention.

regards, Lee

Lee, for the past 3 days that's what I've been doing. sax2 -l -m 0=nv over and over but it never worked. I still got the same error message and never got sax2 to run. Did not matter which slot the video card was in. Did no matter which PCI video card I used. Same error. :o(

I did this from the screen where it says the system is going to load SuSE, I typed "3" and pressed enter. Did the command above and it failed.

Check the messages on the list -- you'll see at least a dozen, maybe 18 all about my attempts to get sax running other than through KDE.

Gil

** Reply to message from "Carl E. Hartung" <suselinux@cehartung.com> on Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:14:47 -0400

Hi Gil,

Any luck yet? If not, can you provide some links to the specs on your e-Machine and the graphics card?

- Carl

Sorry for delay. I am up to my eyeballs in alligators at the moment. Will try to post info a.s.a.p. Thx Gil

** Reply to message from "Carl E. Hartung" <suselinux@cehartung.com> on Wed, 10 Aug 2005 21:14:47 -0400

Hi Gil,

Any luck yet? If not, can you provide some links to the specs on your e-Machine and the graphics card?

- Carl

Sorry for delay. I am up to my eyeballs in alligators at the moment. Will try to post info a.s.a.p. Thx Gil

On Thursday 11 August 2005 12:29 am, Gil Weber wrote:

Carl, not much, but here's something to start. Gil

Hi Gil, According to the links you provided, I gather this is the essential hardware we've been discussing?: 2.8 Ghz Celeron Intel 845GV Chipset On-board Intel Extreme Graphics Video Bus: AGP, 64 MB shared memory Verto GeForce FX 5500 128 MB DDR PCI Dual display 3D Graphics Card VGA + VGA + S-Video NVIDIA® CineFX™ engine Open GL 1.4 Optimizations and Support The last e-Machine I worked on used a proprietary mainboard manufactured for e-Machines by Trigem Computer (Korea). Even if your's is also proprietary, knowing the chipsets involved gives us a decent start with respect to researching the components database (CDB) for omissions and errors. I'll put some time in on this in the morning, since the storm took a while to pass through and I've stayed up way too late already. Catch you then! - Carl

On Thursday 11 August 2005 7:49 am, Gil Weber wrote:

Imperial GV20030812.

Hi Gil, Does one of the (Trigem made) boards described here look like what you've got?: <http://www.emachineupgraders.info/dir1/motherboards/socket478/imperial.shtml> - Carl

On Thursday 11 August 2005 9:59 am, Gil Weber wrote:

It is an Imperial GV (as pictured on the website). Chip set is Intel 845GV. (We actually knew this from your previous post linking to the spec sheet, didn't we?)

Gil, Have you acted on Ken's recommendation to move your current X config file(s) to .old and running SaX2 again? Boot to run level 3, log in as root and run "sax -l" (no quotes; lowercase 'L'). If you get an error message instead of SaX2, post it back here so we can troubleshoot it. Let me clarify what needs to be done so we're all working on the same page: *First* you must make it so SaX2 will just run, period, instead of aborting. You should be doing this with the on-board graphics enabled and your upgrade card set to the side. *Then* you can try to figure out how to make your upgrade hardware work. We've made progress by clearly identifying all the components, but *now* is the time to get SaX2 running again, so please focus on this... - Carl

** Reply to message from BandiPat <penguin0601@earthlink.net> on Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:31:34 -0400

Ok, Gil, so you've ran sax2 -l -m 0=nv numerous times without success. now have you tried just sax2 -r or sax2 -l alone? Have you moved, renamed or deleted graphics config files to see if any were getting in way of you setting your graphics cards? PCI graphics cards are not rocket science, so there has to be a simple explanation to the trouble you are having. If it's not working, there must be something getting in the way of it not doing so. Have you tried the SuSE Eval disc? That too is a diagnostic cd such as Knoppix, only newer stuff to work with.

regards, Lee

Lee, thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it. But things are not going well here. Sorry for the length of this reply and the multiple rants contained in it. I do not know what a SuSE Eval disk is. Is that a disk I need to make myself? Is it included with the 9.3 disks? I know nothing about an Eval disk or how to use it. I have not tried sax2 -r or sax2 -l. I have not moved, renamed, or deleted graphics files since I don't know what specifically I should be looking for. Several folks on the list have been kind enough to post things for me to look at -- for example looking to see if my monitor is identified by name or is listed as generic. But on my own I don't know what to look for, and I would not know good from possibly corrupted info if I knew where to look. So I go along very, very slowly. Sorry, I really am trying to grasp all of this. But it's just not happening for me. I have done 5 clean installs of 9.3 over the past few days. That hasn't helped, and it's probably been wasted effort, but everyone seems to be saying that I have residual problems left behind. I don't know how that can be after a clean install, but doing a clean install is all I know to do since I assume (???) that it should clean any residual problems during the process. Apparently that is not the case as I am still having the same problems with 2 video cards that everyone thinks should work. At the same time I am also trying to figure out why my video clips (.wmv, .mpg. mov. .avi etc) won't play, or won't play with sound. Everything worked perfectly in 9.2 but now it's all gone into the toilet. And video clips that previously played from Firefox no longer play. Previously I had kaffeine, mplayer, totem, and xine loaded and working. Now, none of them seem to be working properly. I have downloaded every multimedia rpm I can find from pacman's site. I have installed and uninstalled and reinstalled the video players. However, even after this last massive install of rpms I get so many failed dependencies that it's driving me nuts. For example, it says I need libwx_gtk2-2.4.so.0 I've searched pacman and I've searched using google. Have not found it. Lots of references to the rpm, but I can't find the rpm itself. Does it actually go by another name? Same thing with another dependency identified as xshared. I get this message: <xshared is needed by xine-ui-aa-0.99.3-0.pm.0> A google search of xshared got me nowhere. Now, if I need to look for the rpm under a different name, well.... More problems.... I tried to swap the floppy drive for another that was supposed to have better access speed, but the new floppy did not work. Could not get 9.3 to recognize it. I have no idea why. And when I put the original one back in the pooter now that one is not working. When I right click on the floppy icon I notice that under properties/ownership **nothing** is listed. User is blank and group is blank. How can that be? When I left click on the floppy icon I get two windows. The first is titled <Mounting /dev/fd0> and it shows 0%. The second is titled <Error - Konqueror> and in the window it shows "The process for the media protocol died unexpectedly." I have no idea where to begin trying to fix this problem. So it's one thing after another with this 9.3 install. It's been an absolute disaster -- the worst upgrade ever, and we've purchased every release of SuSE starting with 7.0. And through all of this I am trying to work and have a life. Sorry for the rant. Seriously discouraged. :o( Gil

On Thu, 2005-08-11 at 00:16 -0400, Gil Weber wrote:

** Reply to message from BandiPat <penguin0601@earthlink.net> on Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:31:34 -0400

...

Ok, Gil, so you've ran sax2 -l -m 0=nv numerous times without success. now have you tried just sax2 -r or sax2 -l alone? Have you moved, renamed or deleted graphics config files to see if any were getting in way of you setting your graphics cards? PCI graphics cards are not rocket science, so there has to be a simple explanation to the trouble you are having. If it's not working, there must be something getting in the way of it not doing so. Have you tried the SuSE Eval disc? That too is a diagnostic cd such as Knoppix, only newer stuff to work with.

regards, Lee

Lee, thanks for the help. I really do appreciate it. But things are not going well here. Sorry for the length of this reply and the multiple rants contained in it.

I do not know what a SuSE Eval disk is. Is that a disk I need to make myself? Is it included with the 9.3 disks? I know nothing about an Eval disk or how to use it.

You need to download the eval DVD from an FTP mirror and than burn the ISO to a DVD.

I have not tried sax2 -r or sax2 -l.

I have not moved, renamed, or deleted graphics files since I don't know what specifically I should be looking for. Several folks on the list have been kind enough to post things for me to look at -- for example looking to see if my monitor is identified by name or is listed as generic.

But on my own I don't know what to look for, and I would not know good from possibly corrupted info if I knew where to look.

First cd /etc/X11 and then mv xorg.conf xorg.conf.old. Then try sax2 -l or sax2 -r.

So I go along very, very slowly. Sorry, I really am trying to grasp all of this. But it's just not happening for me.

I have done 5 clean installs of 9.3 over the past few days. That hasn't helped, and it's probably been wasted effort, but everyone seems to be saying that I have residual problems left behind. I don't know how that can be after a clean install, but doing a clean install is all I know to do since I assume (???) that it should clean any residual problems during the process. Apparently that is not the case as I am still having the same problems with 2 video cards that everyone thinks should work.

At the same time I am also trying to figure out why my video clips (.wmv, .mpg. mov. .avi etc) won't play, or won't play with sound. Everything worked perfectly in 9.2 but now it's all gone into the toilet. And video clips that previously played from Firefox no longer play.

Previously I had kaffeine, mplayer, totem, and xine loaded and working. Now, none of them seem to be working properly.

Don't forget that you have to compile libdvdcss yourself.

I have downloaded every multimedia rpm I can find from pacman's site. I have installed and uninstalled and reinstalled the video players. However, even after this last massive install of rpms I get so many failed dependencies that it's driving me nuts. For example, it says I need libwx_gtk2-2.4.so.0

I've searched pacman and I've searched using google. Have not found it. Lots of references to the rpm, but I can't find the rpm itself. Does it actually go by another name?

Same thing with another dependency identified as xshared. I get this message: <xshared is needed by xine-ui-aa-0.99.3-0.pm.0>

A google search of xshared got me nowhere. Now, if I need to look for the rpm under a different name, well....

More problems.... I tried to swap the floppy drive for another that was supposed to have better access speed, but the new floppy did not work. Could not get 9.3 to recognize it. I have no idea why.

And when I put the original one back in the pooter now that one is not working. When I right click on the floppy icon I notice that under properties/ownership **nothing** is listed. User is blank and group is blank. How can that be?

It is very easy to get the cable twisted and put back on backwards. Did you try changing the cable around (180 degrees)?

When I left click on the floppy icon I get two windows. The first is titled <Mounting /dev/fd0> and it shows 0%. The second is titled <Error - Konqueror> and in the window it shows "The process for the media protocol died unexpectedly."

I have no idea where to begin trying to fix this problem.

So it's one thing after another with this 9.3 install. It's been an absolute disaster -- the worst upgrade ever, and we've purchased every release of SuSE starting with 7.0.

And through all of this I am trying to work and have a life.

Sorry for the rant.

Seriously discouraged. :o( Gil

Well you have good perseverance. Most would have given up by now. Hang in there. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge

On Fri, 2005-08-12 at 09:27 -0400, Gil Weber wrote:

** Reply to message from Ken Schneider <suse-list@bout-tyme.net> on Thu, 11 Aug 2005 06:55:22 -0400

Hope to be able to get into more diagnosis on my e-Machine video card issues over the weekend, but I did want to provide update on this other problem with the same machine.

Good. Keep at it. By the way, I will be leaving the list for about a month while I go visit relatives so don't expect personal responses during that time.

Yes, just looked. The ribbon cable is on correctly at both the floppy and MB. Both plugs are keyed and will only go 1 way.

So I swapped the ribbon cable just to see if that would make a difference. It did not. Still no floppy.

Now, by "...changing the cable around (180 degrees)..." did you actually mean reversing the connectors so that the one on the MB goes on the floppy and visa-versa? Could that make a difference???

Actually I meant on the same end. Since you say they are keyed it would not be possible to put on backwards.

I also just realized that when I power-up the pooter the floppy doesn't make the noise it used to make on power-up (sort of a cross between a roar and a grinding noise). I think that was the floppy drive doing a quick spin up??

The green light does come on as usual, but the floppy drive itself does not seem to be responding.

Gil

This sounds like the drive has bit the dust and needs to be replaced. It does happen. I went through 3 drives in 3 years when I was selling shareware awhile ago. They just wore out. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge

Hello, everyone. Here is a report on what I've learned about my crazy video card and monitor situation today. This reply combines several of your posts. Gil Current status: PNY GeForce FX 5500 PCI video card is installed. BIOS is set to "PCI." Card is in slot nearest to powersupply. I did NOT install the nVidia driver when I did the on-line update. suse list post #1 Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 10:56:10 -0500 From: Stan Glasoe <srglasoe@comcast.net> To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Just installed 9.3 and having some problems with video card and monitor -- any ideas?

The only additional thing I believe is to make sure that "nv" is replaced with "nvidia" in the "Device" section of the /etx/X11/xorg.conf file for 3D support.

Stan, as I noted above, I did not install the nVidia driver. However, when I looked in /etc/X11/xorg.conf there was no mention of an "nv" either. In fact neither the video card nor the monitor is identified in xorg.conf. Here are the results for the "Section Device": # Device Sections... # ------------------- Section "Device" Driver "ChangeMe" Identifier "Device[0]" BusID "2:10:0" # device_options Option "sw_cursor" "on" EndSection Section "Device" Driver "fbdev" Identifier "Device[fbdev]" BusID "2:10:0" # fbdev_options Option "ShadowFB" "off" EndSection Section "Device" Driver "vesa" #Option "DefaultRefresh" Identifier "Device[vesa]" EndSection Section "Device" Driver "vmware" Identifier "Device[vmware]" EndSection ==== suse list post #2 Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 10:33:30 -0400 From: "Carl E. Hartung" <suselinux@cehartung.com> To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Just installed 9.3 and having some problems with video card and monitor -- any ideas?

Have you acted on Ken's recommendation to move your current X config file(s) to .old and running SaX2 again?

Boot to run level 3, log in as root and run "sax -l" (no quotes; lowercase L'). If you get an error message instead of SaX2, post it back here so we can troubleshoot it.

Let me clarify what needs to be done so we're all working on the same page:

*First* you must make it so SaX2 will just run, period, instead of aborting. You should be doing this with the on-board graphics enabled and your upgrade card set to the side.

*Then* you can try to figure out how to make your upgrade hardware work. We've made progress by clearly identifying all the components, but *now* is the time to get SaX2 running again, so please focus on this...

OK. First, I did run Sax2 with the on-board chip enabled in the BIOS and the new video card out of the pooter. Sax2 ran fine. I could configure the on-board chip (resolution, colors) and could set my monitor by model. All went well. I then switched the BIOS to "PCI" and inserted the video card and did a clean install so that the PCI video card was recognized. After doing the on-line update I then went back and restarted the pooter and booted into "FailSafe" mode (which I understands drops me to run level 3). I then logged in (as user) and did the sax2 -l but sax2 did not run. Instead I got the same error message as before: "ups lost card during probe...abort" I then tried sax2 -r but got the same result. Sax2 did not run and the same error message popped up again. Only thing I did not try was logging in as root and trying the above. Since Carl did not specify that in his instructions I assumed it was not necessary. === suse list post #3 Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:06:57 -0400 From: Ken Schneider <suse-list@bout-tyme.net> To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Just installed 9.3 and having some problems with video card and monitor -- any ideas?

Open the SuSE Hardware Tool and see what it reports the card to be. If you are forcing the card to use the nvidia driver it will cause problems. Also, if you looked at the xorg.conf file and found no reference to either nv or nvidia it leads me to believe it is not an nvidia card. Look in Section "Device" to see what it thinks the card is. If there is no Section "Device" than the config never got far enough to create a working "X".

It sees the card as a GeForce FX 5500. As noted above I am not forcing it to use the nVidia driver since I did not download it to my pooter. It should be using the nv driver (but I can't tell if it is or is not). As noted above I did look in xorg.conf file and found no reference to either nVidia or nv. But the care absolutely is an nVidia card. ==== suse list post #4 Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:51:01 -0400 From: BandiPat <penguin0601@earthlink.net> To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Just installed 9.3 and having some problems with video card and monitor -- any ideas?

Here is your location for the Eval DVD iso: ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/linux/suse/ftp.suse.com/suse/i386/live-dvd-9.3 That should provide you a little better test on hardware you want to run SuSE on as well as helpful diagnostic disc when needed.

I tried several times over the weekend to download this SuSE Eval DVD. Unfortunately the download was so impossibly slow that I was never able to get it. After more than an hour I had only about 6% on the best effort, and I have a fibre-optic DSL line, so it should have been much faster. I don't know if it was a problem with my BellSouth connection or if the sending server(s) was slow, but I could not get the download despite several tries. Now, suppose I had gotten it. What to do with that DVD? Are there diagnostic files? === OK, so that's where things stand. Is any of this information useful to you gurus? :o) Thanks. Gil

** Reply to message from Ken Schneider <suse-list@bout-tyme.net> on Mon, 15 Aug 2005 08:21:23 -0400 My apologies for not being much clearer, Ken. I did the right thing. Please see below. :o) Gil (snip)

...

OK. First, I did run Sax2 with the on-board chip enabled in the BIOS and the new video card out of the pooter. Sax2 ran fine. I could configure the on-board chip (resolution, colors) and could set my monitor by model. All went well.

I then switched the BIOS to "PCI" and inserted the video card and did a clean install so that the PCI video card was recognized.

After doing the on-line update I then went back and restarted the pooter and booted into "FailSafe" mode (which I understands drops me to run level 3). I then logged in (as user)

sax2 needs to be run as root -not- user.

Here is where I was not clear, sorry. The first time I went in under Fail Safe mode I logged in as user, then when I entered sax2 -r and sax2 -l it asked for the root password. I entered that and then got the error messages as in previous attempts. More below.

...

and did the sax2 -l but sax2 did not run. Instead I got the same error message as before: "ups lost card during probe...abort"

I then tried sax2 -r but got the same result. Sax2 did not run and the same error message popped up again.

Only thing I did not try was logging in as root and trying the above. Since Carl did not specify that in his instructions I assumed it was not necessary.

OK, then just to be certain that I had not misunderstood something incredibly obvious :o) I just restarted the computer and went into Fail Safe mode. This time I logged in as root rather than as user. I then tried both the sax2 -r and sax2 -l commands as root but got the same error message both times "ups lost card during probe .... abort." So I am tryng sax2 as root but without success. Sorry for the confusion that caused you to think I was trying to run sax2 without root priviledges. :o) Gil

** Reply to message from BandiPat <penguin0601@earthlink.net> on Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:33:15 -0400

Gil, Not sure that failsafe mode takes you far enough to run sax2. Instead of failsafe, just type "3" or "init 3" when your bootloader (Grub) screen appears. See if that gets you any further. I doubt it will, because it just seems like it's not seeing that card for some reason. Just like that old Intel motherboard I tried a PCI card in did.

regards, Lee

Tried this just now. No difference. Still gives me the same error message for either sax2 -r or sax2 -l. Gil

Oh, how I *hate* doing stooopid things like this! OK, I packed up the readme, release notes and the mainboard manual instead of the rpm. I hope the second copy of the manual is easier to read or something... (sheesh!) Let's try this again: http://www.cehartung.com/DL/drv4gil2.tar.gz Sorry! - Carl

On Monday 15 August 2005 15:31, BandiPat wrote:

Looking at all this and the contents of the rpm, it appears that it doesn't add much to his graphics experience using the builtin Intel stuff. It only allocates 32mb for video memory max and replaces many drivers already included with SuSE & X.org. Plus, it would probably give him the added headache of cranky or outdated drivers like nVidia does with each kernel update.

Of course, it's a mute point anyway, since Gil is not wanting to get the Intel graphics working, they do already, but he wants the PCI cards to work!

Hi Lee, I haven't studied Gil's problem in detail... and you know this stuff is hard at a distance, anyway... but it seems to me SaX2 is not recognizing the hardware once the on-board graphics have been turned off and the PCI card plugged in. My hope was that Intel's Linux software would enable SaX2 to recognize the change and "see" the add-in card. Wouldn't the "on-board graphics off" function that also enables the PCI graphics bus need some kind of software support, too, and not just the shared memory management?. Anyway, you're probably right... I just thought I'd share my line of thinking with you. regards, - Carl

On Mon, 2005-08-15 at 09:24 -0400, Gil Weber wrote:

** Reply to message from Ken Schneider <suse-list@bout-tyme.net> on Mon, 15 Aug 2005 08:21:23 -0400

My apologies for not being much clearer, Ken. I did the right thing. Please see below. :o) Gil

(snip)

...

...

OK. First, I did run Sax2 with the on-board chip enabled in the BIOS and the new video card out of the pooter. Sax2 ran fine. I could configure the on-board chip (resolution, colors) and could set my monitor by model. All went well.

I then switched the BIOS to "PCI" and inserted the video card and did a clean install so that the PCI video card was recognized.

After doing the on-line update I then went back and restarted the pooter and booted into "FailSafe" mode (which I understands drops me to run level 3). I then logged in (as user)

sax2 needs to be run as root -not- user.

Here is where I was not clear, sorry. The first time I went in under Fail Safe mode I logged in as user, then when I entered sax2 -r and sax2 -l it asked for the root password. I entered that and then got the error messages as in previous attempts. More below.

OK, then just to be certain that I had not misunderstood something incredibly obvious :o) I just restarted the computer and went into Fail Safe mode. This time I logged in as root rather than as user. I then tried both the sax2 -r and sax2 -l commands as root but got the same error message both times "ups lost card during probe .... abort."

So I am tryng sax2 as root but without success.

Sorry for the confusion that caused you to think I was trying to run sax2 without root priviledges. :o) Gil

Not a problem, just wanted to be sure you were running sax2 as root. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998

** Reply to message from Stan Glasoe <srglasoe@comcast.net> on Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:40:01 -0500 (snipped)

OK. Seems to me that SUSE isn't configuring PCI properly on this specific system where Knoppix is. Using Failsafe, both acpi=off and apm=off _usually_ fix these problems in SUSE. My theory is that something in the BIOS or on the mainboard is activated/deactivated properly during a Knoppix boot while its missed during SUSE boot.

Next step is to try other PCI and ACPI and possibly APIC settings on the boot command line. SUSE has 2 SDB articles for reference. The newest, http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2004/11/acpi_basics.html explains a bit about PCI, APM and ACPI. It references http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2002/10/81_acpi.html where we get some parameters to play with.

I read both. Thanks. :o)

What we know doesn't work in SUSE: apm=off acpi=off

Things to try in no particular order since I don't know which would be most effective in this case or in general:

apm=off acpi=noirq = ? disable IRQ routing in ACPI apm=off acpi=oldboot = ? use ACPI only for booting

apm=off acpi=off noapic = ? apm=off acpi=off lapic = ? apm=off acpi=off nolapic = ?

OK, now I need specific guidance -- what to do, where, and how to get back to where I was if something doesn't work. Do I enter these changes at the Grub bootloader -- the same place where I was entering "3" before SuSE starts up? Do I still enter "3" or am I entering these commands instead and going into Failsafe mode? Let's consider the first one you suggest: apm=off acpi=noirq = ? Since apm=off is the default upon entering FailSafe, does this mean I enter acpi=noirq and go into Failsafe, then log in as root and try both sax2 -r and sax2 -l? If neither works do I power down, restart, get back to place where I was, enter Failsafe and type acpi=off to get back to default, then also enter the next of your options: apm=off acpi=oldboot = ? And do I then just keep going down the list until something happens or nothing happens? My biggest concern here is how to recover to default if something bad happens.

And here is how to make them permanent IF we figure out what works: http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2002/12/fhassel_bootoptions.html

Have not read this one yet. :o) Gil

On Monday 15 August 2005 20:36, Stan Glasoe wrote: <snippage>

Login as root and do sax2 -l first. If it fails with the same old problem, press the reset button and get ready for the next command line option. Make sure you press the reset button to get a hard reset.

3 apm=off acpi=noirq noapic 3 apm=off acpi=oldboot noapic 3 apm=off acpi=off lapic 3 apm=off acpi=noirq lapic 3 apm=off acpi=oldboot lapic 3 apm=off acpi=off nolapic 3 apm=off acpi=noirq nolapic 3 apm=off acpi=oldboot nolapic

From here on out we need to get creative.

Stan

Hi Stan & Gil, OK, I admit it... the suspense is killing me. How's it going, Gil? :-) I have a couple of items to throw into the mix for the "creative" phase, if it comes to that. Keep in mind that I can't recall if these have been discussed already, so forgive me if they have: Before running 'sax2 -l' or 'sax2 -r' has 'lspci' been tried?... just to see what the heck, if anything, shows up on the pci bus? Also 'sax2 -p' ... instruct SaX2 to display the results of the AGP/PCI probe? I realize it may already be doing this, given the error message, but... just in case... it might be worth asking for the details. I'll go back to the sidelines now; got my fingers crossed... - Carl

On Monday 15 August 2005 10:10 pm, Gil Weber wrote:

** Reply to message from Carl Hartung <suselinux@cehartung.com> on Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:42:08 -0400

...

Before running 'sax2 -l' or 'sax2 -r' has 'lspci' been tried?... just to see what the heck, if anything, shows up on the pci bus?

No, have not tried lspci. Where do I enter that? At the bootloader after I enter "3"? Please be **specific** with your explanation, and tell me what I'm looking for as a response. lspci would be entered after the system boots up prior to running any sax2 commands. Then doing the 'sax2 -p' would show us what sax2 can see on the PCI bus.

...

Also 'sax2 -p' ... instruct SaX2 to display the results of the AGP/PCI probe? I realize it may already be doing this, given the error message, but... just in case... it might be worth asking for the details.

Have not tried that. Do I do it in regular SuSE start up or do I do it in Failsafe mode?

After the system boots up at the root prompt. After booting each of our test scenarios you could do 1) 'lspci' to see if the video card is seen, then 2) 'sax2 -p' to see if sax2 can see the card, then 3) 'sax2 -l' to see if sax2 can configure it. Stan

On Monday 15 August 2005 23:53, BandiPat wrote:

Both of these are done after booting to runlevel 3 Gil. Type 3 at the Grub screen, then after logging in as root, try the commands Carl suggested.

Lee

Thanks, Lee. Very succinct and clear. I have another suggestion to throw into the mix, but it depends on you, Gil, having another box to communicate with while you're working on the e-Machine. I use these locally for remote support, in addition to vnc: Skype (VOIP) and/or GAIM (Instant Messaging). There's a 'cousin' to GAIM available for the command line, too, in the event you need to Instant Message and X isn't available. I have it installed, but I need to look up the name... maybe get some practice on it first. Skype is great with a headset since the parties can communicate in real time while keeping their hands free. This makes it a lot easier for the person doing the hands-on troubleshooting, since he/she can use a mouse and type while discussing the process on-line. GAIM is great, too, but it helps if the person doing the hands-on troubleshooting can type reasonably quickly and clearly, for obvious reasons. I'm up to it if you are, Gil... Stan... Lee... sure would make things go a lot faster and it'd probably be a lot less frustrating, Gil. Of course, it's late now, so it would have to be tomorrow. Alright, I've thrown that out for discussion and now I'm off to bed. G'night! I'll catch up in the a.m. - Carl p.s.: Here's the relevant contact info. You need to drop me an e-mail, first, with a time frame (EST) since I don't keep these apps running all the time. Yahoo! Instant Messenger ID: carlh04426 AOL Instant Messenger ID: carlh04426 Skype ID: carlh04426

On Tuesday 16 August 2005 7:59 am, BandiPat wrote:

On Tuesday 16 August 2005 12:55 am, Carl Hartung wrote: [...]

...

I'm up to it if you are, Gil... Stan... Lee... sure would make things go a lot faster and it'd probably be a lot less frustrating, Gil. Of course, it's late now, so it would have to be tomorrow.

Alright, I've thrown that out for discussion and now I'm off to bed. G'night! I'll catch up in the a.m.

- Carl

p.s.: Here's the relevant contact info. You need to drop me an e-mail, first, with a time frame (EST) since I don't keep these apps running all the time. Yahoo! Instant Messenger ID: carlh04426 AOL Instant Messenger ID: carlh04426 Skype ID: carlh04426

=========

I'm up for it as well, as it would make things much quicker. Might want to include IRC in the mix as well.

AOL screen name: Tracerb45 ICQ: 18254149 IRC: several to choose from

What no webcam? Dang! AIM: Stan56Man Stan

On Tuesday 16 August 2005 10:00, Carl Hartung wrote:

OK, I've got some stuff to do around here for a bit, so I'll get set up and listen for... oh, drat! I have to install Skype, now that I've upgraded to 9.3. I'll fire up GAIM and install Skype, fire it up and do some chores.

A quick follow-up: I'm logged into AIM, but Yahoo! crashes GAIM during authentication, so I'll deal with that later. I've also got SKype up and running now. - Carl

Gil Weber wrote:

** Reply to message from Carl Hartung <suselinux@cehartung.com> on Tue, 16 Aug 2005 00:55:06 -0400

...

I have another suggestion to throw into the mix, but it depends on you, Gil, having another box to communicate with while you're working on the e-Machine.

Stan, Lee, Carl,

Unfortunately, I do not. 3 other machines all in various states of being rebuilt. And even when up and running, they're all in another room. So unable to work on my e-Machine while simultaneously communicating with you guys on another.

IRC works well for many (e.g. me). Try irc://freenode/suse -- "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?" Matthew 6:27 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

** Reply to message from Sid Boyce <sboyce@blueyonder.co.uk> on Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:54:02 +0100

Floppy drives are not very reliable these days even though they get very little use. Remind us what video is on the e-machine, people swear by them as excellent Linux boxes. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio L

Chip set is Intel 845GV.

On Friday 12 August 2005 5:08 pm, Gil Weber wrote:

** Reply to message from Sid Boyce <sboyce@blueyonder.co.uk> on Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:54:02 +0100

...

Floppy drives are not very reliable these days even though they get very little use. Remind us what video is on the e-machine, people swear by them as excellent Linux boxes. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio L

Chip set is Intel 845GV.

Gil, Have you tried the Failsafe install method for SUSE 9.3 on this eMachine? Can't remember if you have or not. Try it. Stan

On Thursday 11 August 2005 5:51 pm, BandiPat wrote:

Gil, this may be something to be concerned about. Since you posted that the motherboard is Intel with onboard graphics, it stirred a memory. I had a used machine come thru the shop once which I tried to install a PCI card in also. The motherboard was Intel with onboard video & shared memory. I could get a screen from a PCI graphics, but as far as getting it to work reliably, no! I never explored it further, but it may be an inherent problem with Intel motherboards and onboard graphics. <snip>

Hi All... Lee, your recall is impressive. The system has *dynamic* shared memory, but I think it can probably be tamed. The board is listed as "unknown" in v.3.0 of the CDB. Here's a .pdf of the user's guide, if you want to look it over: <http://www.cehartung.com/DL/IMPERIAL 845GV Motherboard User's Guide.pdf> Gil, have you succeeded yet in getting SaX2 to run without aborting? - Carl

...

Hi All...

Lee, your recall is impressive. The system has *dynamic* shared memory, but I think it can probably be tamed. The board is listed as "unknown" in v.3.0 of the CDB.

Here's a .pdf of the user's guide, if you want to look it over:

<http://www.cehartung.com/DL/IMPERIAL 845GV Motherboard User's Guide.pdf>

Gil, have you succeeded yet in getting SaX2 to run without aborting?

- Carl

Have not had a moment to try. Very hectic here at the moment. I hope to be able to try on Sunday. Sorry for the delay but I have to get some projects completed and I need the pooter running. Can't take the time today or tomorrow to change the BIOS setting and install the video card, and then try sax2.

I will report to the list as soon as I am able to run the test.

Thanks!! Gil ========= Gil, Another thought since Carl provided a copy of the manual, do you have

On Thursday 11 August 2005 09:45 pm, Gil Weber wrote: [...] the Plug & Play OS setting = No? It's not recommended to have it on yes, because it creates problems recognizing some cards. That setting, if available, should be No, no matter what the brand motherboard. Thanks Carl for the pdf file. Seems with this chipset too that the motherboard automatically takes what it needs from system memory for shared graphics. Most all the ones I've seen let you set the amount. good luck, Lee

On Tuesday 09 August 2005 11:13 pm, Gil Weber wrote:

And so it raises this question to the list: Is anyone out there successfully running **any** PCI video card (PCI, not PCI-e) with SuSE 9.2 or 9.3? <snip> I am really interested in finding out if anyone has had success with any PCI video card. Maybe this entire exercise has been doomed from the start? If so, at least we've all learned something! :o)

Thanks, everyone. Gil

PCI video cards work fine with all versions of SuSE in systems I deal with - except for yours Gil! Sheesh. If these 2 cards work in another system then its the mainboard in this eMachine system. Things to verify would be having the latest/last BIOS version for this system, reset/clear the BIOS and set only those settings you want for the PCI video card (onboard video disabled, PCI vs AGP if there is a choice, PCI bus master, etc). ACPI or APM disabled in BIOS to test. Remove any other PCI cards in the system for testing. Are you trying Safe Mode settings at boot time? Either installing or via the boot command line? Especially acpi=off. I believe Knoppix tests the BIOS/ACPI date and if its before 2002 automatically disables acpi. SuSE enables acpi by default on every system I've installed it on. Just a clue to work with here. Stan

On Wednesday 10 August 2005 11:01, Felix Miata wrote:

http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/tmp/Images/gilweber2.gif is my SuSE 9.2 system on K6-III 550 on MVP3 chipset & 256M RAM.

I am running Knoppix 3.2 installed to the hard drive on a AMD K62 450 MHz, 128 MB RAM, and a PCI Creative Voodoo videocard with 16 MB RAM. My main reason for this OS choice (Win obviously not a choice) is that SuSE, Mandrake, and Fedora all failed to detect my ISA Creative AWE64 sound card. Not having much hope, I popped my Knoppix CD in and, lo and behold, it detected the sound card fine and set it up automatically and perfectly. After a while I installed Knoppix to the hard drive and it has been rock solid, allowing this old system to continue in productive use. Bryan ******************************************************** Powered by SuSE Linux 9.2 Professional KDE 3.3.0 KMail 1.7.1 This is a Microsoft-free computer Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net ********************************************************

BandiPat wrote:

Everyone thinks Knoppix is a cure all, run anywhere version of Linux, but it's just Debian tweaked a bit.

That is NOT what everyone thinks. What it is is a great diagnostic tool, which can prove Linux can run successfully in a particular hardware environment, and just happens to be a good distro in its own right as well. Gil's Knoppix as diagnostic experience just happens to prove Linux can work fine on his hardware, and that 9.3 has a problem doing the same. -- "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?" Matthew 6:27 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

BandiPat wrote:

Listening to everyone that suggests using it certainly makes it sound as if they do Felix. It is a good diagnostic tool, not a great one, because much of the software is older and not a good test, if you plan on running a newer distro later.

It is a great diagnostic tool, because it works such a high percent of the time to prove something difficult to prove otherwise, which is whether particular hardware works or not, and without "installing" anything whatsoever, or requiring futzing with hardware/BIOS settings.

If you plan to run SuSE 9.3, then you should use the diagnostic tool SuSE provides us, SuSE Eval disc. It serves all the same purposes

Eval disc? You mean the live CD? Do you really believe that is likely to function better than the 5 or more 9.3 real installs he's already done?

Knoppix does plus more by providing newer items to test with on your

Newer? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly 9.3 is newer than Gil's old 3.4 Knoppix, but the current 3.9 Knoppix is a late May release, newer than 9.3. Knoppix releases traditionally happen approximately twice as often as SuSE releases.

Gil has really only managed to confuse his efforts thus far, that's all.

He's been spinning his wheels trying the same few things over and over and seeing consistent unsatisfactory results. That means he needs to try other things. After all those unsatisfactory SuSE 9.3 installs already, further new installation time would be more productively spent installing something other than 9.3. He need not buy some other distro to try. Fedora & Mandrake among others can be installed via FTP/HTTP right off the net just like SuSE, using a small boot.iso to jumpstart it.

Instead of flaunting the "qualities" of Knoppix on a SuSE list, time would be better spent helping Gil run down his problems.

I've already done that. I suggested comparing ripe apples to ripe apples (Knoppix 3.9 vs. SuSE 9.3) or spoiling apples to spoiling apples (Knoppix 3.4 to SuSE 9.0 or 9.1), to try to get away from the previous wheel spinning and narrow down where the behavioral difference(s) is/are between Knoppix and SuSE and thus maybe find what in 9.3 needs adjusting to his hardware that he's proven can work. Heck, if he lives somewhere close to 82W & 28N he's welcome to bring his puter here so we can put our collective efforts together live. -- "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?" Matthew 6:27 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

BandiPat wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:

...

I've already done that. I suggested comparing ... spoiling apples to spoiling apples (Knoppix 3.4 to SuSE 9.0 or 9.1)

Wouldn't it be easier, better to try an earlier version of SuSE on the machine?

That's the precise meaning of what you quoted, and ostensibly read, and maybe even understood. -- "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?" Matthew 6:27 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

On Thursday 11 August 2005 06:29 pm, Felix Miata wrote:

BandiPat wrote:

...

On Thursday 11 August 2005 01:57 am, Felix Miata wrote:

...

It is a great diagnostic tool, because it works such a high percent of the time to prove something difficult to prove otherwise, which is whether particular hardware works or not, and without "installing" anything whatsoever, or requiring futzing with hardware/BIOS settings.

That still only makes it a good diagnostic tool, Felix. It might be great to someone wanting to install Debian or a form of Debian. What have you proved, if you still can't install or run the distro you want on the machine?

It proves the distro he's trying to install is a problem (broken as installed) on his hardware but not a problem for his hardware with some other distro. That's half the battle to someone who otherwise couldn't tell where to begin looking for a solution. --

Felix, Please pay attention! I receive list mail, why do you continue to send out two copies of everything? He already knew it was or something was broken, didn't he? He didn't need Knoppix to tell him that. If it's not working, it's pretty evident it's broken somewhere. What he needs now is where and only working thru SuSE can he figure that out. Lee

On Thursday 11 August 2005 08:28 pm, Gil Weber wrote: [...]

...

Felix, Please pay attention! I receive list mail, why do you continue to send out two copies of everything?

He already knew it was or something was broken, didn't he? He didn't need Knoppix to tell him that. If it's not working, it's pretty evident it's broken somewhere. What he needs now is where and only working thru SuSE can he figure that out.

Lee

Guys, please don't get upset with each other over my problem. I appreciate the help both of you (and others are providing). I apologize for making it such a long a drawn out process of something that seems as if it should have been an easy fix.

Thanks for your wisdom. Gil =======

Sorry, Gil not trying to turn things into a big debate with anyone, just trying to make the point that Knoppix is not the magical tool Felilx seems to think it is. Oh well, maybe he'll figure out at least how to send only one email to the list. ;o) Lee

On Thursday 11 August 2005 08:52 pm, Felix Miata wrote:

BandiPat wrote:

...

On Thursday 11 August 2005 06:29 pm, Felix Miata wrote:

Please pay attention! I receive list mail, why do you continue to send out two copies of everything?

Because you don't seem to get it. Successful diagnosis is rarely the result of trying the same things repeatedly rather than trying different things.

Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/

======= Ok, I'll spell this one last thing out to and try not to use big words! Only send one email to the list, as I will see that one, since I'm on the list. Keep your extra one for later reference if you need, because you don't need to send me one and the list. Ok? Lee

On Tuesday 09 August 2005 11:13 pm, Gil Weber wrote:

I managed to put my hands on another PCI video card (emphasizing again, that's PCI, and not PCI-e). This one is a Genesis SV+ S3 Virge/DX. It is and older card but it is identified correctly by SuSE 9.3.

Howver, just as with the other PCI video card I cannot access a configuration screen for the video card or my monitor. I get the same error message as I have reported several times: <ups lost card during probing... abort>

Gil

I just remembered that one of my name brand systems with onboard video will allow disabling the onboard video and the BIOS is also set to NOT allow another video card in the system.!.! The BIOS happily shows onboard video disabled and really does disable it; the VGA port doesn't work. Any add-in video card won't work If the onboard video dies you replace the mainboard and there isn't the work-around of using an add-in card until the system is fixed. Proprietary sucks in this case. This eMachine is acting like it doesn't do add-in video cards. That may be by design, it may be a flaw of the BIOS that won't be fixed or it could be a hardware failure on the mainboard. Stan

On Wednesday 10 August 2005 10:26 am, Carl E. Hartung wrote:

On Wednesday 10 August 2005 11:14 am, Stan Glasoe wrote: <snip>

...

I just remembered that one of my name brand systems with onboard video will allow disabling the onboard video and the BIOS is also set to NOT allow another video card in the system.!.! The BIOS happily shows onboard video disabled and really does disable it; the VGA port doesn't work. Any add-in video card won't work

Hi Stan,

Now *that* is a funny 'undocumented feature'...

...

This eMachine is acting like it doesn't do add-in video cards. That may be by design, it may be a flaw of the BIOS that won't be fixed or it could be a hardware failure on the mainboard.

Actually, it seems like the e-Machine has been proven to be working OK with on-board and the add-in graphics, since Knoppix can configure and run quite well.

- Carl

Oops. Only on first cup of coffee and forgot that part... duh. I think Felix may be onto something though in the Konppix 3.4 versus SuSE 9.3 though. Very different versions of stuff. I too wonder if SuSE 8.2 or 9.0 or 9.1 would install here. Stan

On Monday 08 August 2005 5:06 pm, Gil Weber wrote: <snip>

If PNY has intentionally designed the card to work only with Windoze then, again, I have no way to know. PNY customer support does not speak Linux, so they are of no help. They keep telling me to install Windoze. :o(

PNY, being a low cost third party manufacturer & remarketer of PC "compatible" add-on and upgrade products has no interest at all in building proprietary goods. They want their stuff to "land" and run, hence "stick" in as many situations as possible. Tech support, RMAs and RTVs are expensive. On the other hand...

If e-Machines has intentionally done something then, again, I don't know. They also are not conversant in Linux.

e-Machines wants every single customer to come back to them to buy upgrades. In fact, that's a big part of their business model: Sell minimal bare-bones "complete systems" at rock bottom prices to people who are buying their first computer, then 'stick it to them' at 1.5 times the going market rate when they come back ... as they surely will... needing a bigger hard drive, more memory and better graphics. I'm almost 100% certain your e-Machine is the culprit. I once had a bad experience with them over a simple BIOS update. It was for a customer's entry level system that didn't support 'large' drives (>32GB). Their "solution?" I could buy a whole new e-Machine or a *very expensive* motherboard upgrade from their "parts and repairs" website, but they would not make the simple BIOS update that I needed available. regards, - Carl

On Monday 08 August 2005 10:13 pm, Gil Weber wrote: <snip>

Yeah, same train of thought as Stan posted. I will contact e-Machines about a BIOS update and let you know what happens. Many thanks! :o) Gil

Hi Gil, I just want to offer a slight clarification and maybe a bit more insight from my perspective: Don't overlook my use of the phrase "almost 100% certain" and please do consider Felix's excellent advice to test if Knoppix can configure itself successfully to use that card. Stan also makes an excellent point about nVidia ensuring that cards manufactured by it's OEM customers will work with nVidia's drivers. This means that the card really should work, assuming it isn't defective and the host computer is compatible. And that's the problem: In my mind, the jury's still out as to whether or not the card is defective. This question needs to be answered first. Now, I doubt that PNY (or the OEM) pulls random pieces off the assembly line and test boots them in an XP machine. There *must* be some kind of low level field diagnostic utility you can boot from CD or with a FreeDOS floppy that can probe the card and report back whether or not it powers up and initializes properly. Once you've ruled out a defective card, you can start pestering e-Machines vociferously, with a clear conscience, ;-) because *that* would mean something unique and incompatible (i.e. proprietary) is happening inside their motherboard. - Carl

On Monday 08 August 2005 3:46 pm, Carl E. Hartung wrote:

On Monday 08 August 2005 3:01 pm, Gil Weber wrote:

...

Deep sigh.... :o(

No good news

<snip>

Hi Gil,

I Googled your error message and did a /lot/ of reading...

First, did you ever resolve this issue on your e-machine last October? The two SLE threads are nearly identical... lots of advice from lots of experienced sources leading to no positive conclusion that I could find.

Second, the general concensus seems to be that you'd better check the hardware for either a) being defective, b) not installed correctly or c) the host system is not compatible, possibly by design. Yes, some PC brands *still* force you to buy upgrade hardware from them by building in extra special "custom improvements" that make the systems proprietary.

Finally, when you run "sax -l" (lower case 'L') you're telling it to run in basic plain vanilla VESA compliant VGA mode, which every PC card made in the world for the last decade knows how to 'speak'. In other words, when SaX2 probes and can't initialize basic VGA, you've got a fundamental hardware problem on your hands.

HTH & regards,

- Carl

Gil, That pretty much sucks. Is the system BIOS up to date? How old is this system? Could be that it can't handle the NVidia either due to BIOS or PCI incompatibilities. Carl is right on with the "sax -l" properties. If we can't get that base level going then I'd pull the new card and go back to the onboard video. Just saw your response to Carl. Will this card work in any of your machines? One way to troubleshoot it as being defective. Should work in SuSE since it is listed in sax2 as a choice. My understanding of the clone NVidia cards made by PNY and others, they have to be able to run the NVidia drivers no matter the OS since those are the only drivers available. Stan

Gil Weber wrote:

I am resigned to that being the case, especially if I can't upgrade the BIOS without Windoze.

Upgrading the BIOS usually requires a DOS boot, not a windoze boot. The problem is the requirement to determine any need for a BIOS update by having an installed windoze OS, or to have windoze to create the DOS boot disk that actually performs the upgrade. If you ask around maybe you can locate a Bart's CD that will run on your system. http://www.nu2.nu/bootcd/ -- "Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life?" Matthew 6:27 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/