Blacklist pipewire from zypper dup (TW)
Hi, As the subject says, I'd like to blacklist pipewire from dup updates in tumbleweed. Do not misunderstand me. I like pipewire and look forward to it becoming standard, when it's ready for prime time. Unfortunately, this is not the case at the moment and I rely on professionally audio with jackd etc. Anyway. What's the correct way to blacklist pipewire from zypper dup, and is it even possible without destroying the setup? PS. This might be more appropriate on the factory list but I start here. DS. -- /bengan
Bengt Gördén wrote:
Hi,
As the subject says, I'd like to blacklist pipewire from dup updates in tumbleweed. Do not misunderstand me. I like pipewire and look forward to it becoming standard, when it's ready for prime time. Unfortunately, this is not the case at the moment and I rely on professionally audio with jackd etc.
Anyway. What's the correct way to blacklist pipewire from zypper dup, and is it even possible without destroying the setup?
This one usually wortks for me: zypper al <list-of-packages> -- Per Jessen, Zürich (8.2°C)
On 11/02/2022 13.41, Per Jessen wrote:
Bengt Gördén wrote:
Hi,
As the subject says, I'd like to blacklist pipewire from dup updates in tumbleweed. Do not misunderstand me. I like pipewire and look forward to it becoming standard, when it's ready for prime time. Unfortunately, this is not the case at the moment and I rely on professionally audio with jackd etc.
Anyway. What's the correct way to blacklist pipewire from zypper dup, and is it even possible without destroying the setup?
This one usually wortks for me:
zypper al <list-of-packages>
My guess is, he means what exact package or pattern to blacklist to get the result. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 11/02/2022 13.41, Per Jessen wrote:
Bengt Gördén wrote:
Hi,
As the subject says, I'd like to blacklist pipewire from dup updates in tumbleweed. Do not misunderstand me. I like pipewire and look forward to it becoming standard, when it's ready for prime time. Unfortunately, this is not the case at the moment and I rely on professionally audio with jackd etc.
Anyway. What's the correct way to blacklist pipewire from zypper dup, and is it even possible without destroying the setup?
This one usually wortks for me:
zypper al <list-of-packages>
My guess is, he means what exact package or pattern to blacklist to get the result.
zypper se pipewire | \ grep pipewire | \ while IFS=\| read a pip rest; do echo $pip; done | \ xargs zypper al -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.0°C)
On 11/02/2022 21.15, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 11/02/2022 13.41, Per Jessen wrote:
Bengt Gördén wrote:
Hi,
As the subject says, I'd like to blacklist pipewire from dup updates in tumbleweed. Do not misunderstand me. I like pipewire and look forward to it becoming standard, when it's ready for prime time. Unfortunately, this is not the case at the moment and I rely on professionally audio with jackd etc.
Anyway. What's the correct way to blacklist pipewire from zypper dup, and is it even possible without destroying the setup?
This one usually wortks for me:
zypper al <list-of-packages>
My guess is, he means what exact package or pattern to blacklist to get the result.
zypper se pipewire | \ grep pipewire | \ while IFS=\| read a pip rest; do echo $pip; done | \ xargs zypper al
:-DD There is usually a critical package, one or two, and blacklisting that one usually results in eliminating the whole thing. Example: Legolas:~ # zypper ll # | Name | Type | Repository | Comment --+----------------+---------+------------+-------- 1 | PackageKit | package | (any) | 2 | ibus | package | (any) | 3 | pk-update-icon | package | (any) | 4 | plymouth | package | (any) | Legolas:~ # -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))
On 2022-02-11 20:18, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 11/02/2022 13.41, Per Jessen wrote:
This one usually wortks for me: >> zypper al <list-of-packages>
Thanks Per.
My guess is, he means what exact package or pattern to blacklist to get the result.
Actually, I'm not sure what I mean. But I know what I'd like to be the outcome of it. I've got pipewire installed but not by my doing. It snuck in 2018-07-14 as far as I can see in the /var/log/zypp/history*. And now that there is more and more leaning towards pipewire going to be default it will mess up my audio setting due to me needing jackd to do real-time recordings and pipewire isn't up to that task, yet. It will be but the general consensus in the linux audio world is that pipewire isn't there yet. So I need to freeze (not remove) pipewire without my settings being messed up. I need to blacklist pipewire all together from zypper dup and Per's suggestion sounds right. Carlos hinted that it could be done with pattern, right? This is what I have: libpipewire-0_1-0 libpipewire-0_3-0 pipewire pipewire-media-session pipewire-modules pipewire-spa-plugins-0_2 pipewire-spa-tools pipewire-tools It looks that * could be used for "zypper help al". zypper al pipewire* libpipewire* I'm not sure Masarus way would work due to the fact that pipewire where installed without my intervention in the first place and could therefor be again. I'd like to just freeze it as is until the jack compatible layer will be up to realtime task regarding buffer, periods, hardware support etc (I've got several USB interfaces that I work with and works nice with alsa but not everything in pipewire can be pointed to which interface to use and when. Lets say it's not there yet, but will be in time. -- /bengan
On 11/02/2022 21.20, Bengt Gördén wrote:
On 2022-02-11 20:18, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 11/02/2022 13.41, Per Jessen wrote:
This one usually wortks for me: >> zypper al <list-of-packages>
Thanks Per.
My guess is, he means what exact package or pattern to blacklist to get the result.
Actually, I'm not sure what I mean. But I know what I'd like to be the outcome of it. I've got pipewire installed but not by my doing. It snuck in 2018-07-14 as far as I can see in the /var/log/zypp/history*. And now that there is more and more leaning towards pipewire going to be default it will mess up my audio setting due to me needing jackd to do real-time recordings and pipewire isn't up to that task, yet. It will be but the general consensus in the linux audio world is that pipewire isn't there yet. So I need to freeze (not remove) pipewire without my settings being messed up. I need to blacklist pipewire all together from zypper dup and Per's suggestion sounds right.
Carlos hinted that it could be done with pattern, right?
It is a guess :-)
This is what I have: libpipewire-0_1-0 libpipewire-0_3-0 pipewire pipewire-media-session pipewire-modules pipewire-spa-plugins-0_2 pipewire-spa-tools pipewire-tools
It looks that * could be used for "zypper help al". zypper al pipewire* libpipewire*
I usually try with "yast2 sw_single", search "pipewire", and in that window blacklist one package, possibly "pipewire" itself and see what happens. With a few tries you could hit the master package. I can not try because I don't have TW. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))
On 2022-02-11 21:27, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It is a guess :-)
I think your right. In the man page and "zypper help al" it's says that the NAME can be used with glob pattern such as * and ?. So I think that zypper al *pipewire* would work fine I'll give it a go but I've got a shirt-load of packages (over 8000 packages) to "dup" due to the fact that I've been procrastinating for a while now. Think I'll do this over night.
I don't have TW
You should try it. Best thing since sliced bread :D cheers, -- /bengan
On 11/02/2022 21.42, Bengt Gördén wrote:
On 2022-02-11 21:27, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It is a guess :-)
I think your right. In the man page and "zypper help al" it's says that the NAME can be used with glob pattern such as * and ?.
So I think that zypper al *pipewire* would work fine
I'll give it a go but I've got a shirt-load of packages (over 8000 packages) to "dup" due to the fact that I've been procrastinating for a while now. Think I'll do this over night.
I don't have TW
You should try it. Best thing since sliced bread :D
:-DDDD Nahh :-P I leave that to the youngsters :-P -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))
Hello,
In the Message;
Subject : Re: Blacklist pipewire from zypper dup (TW)
Message-ID : <54547647-193a-6f9d-427f-40f1fa625342@bag.org>
Date & Time: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 21:20:35 +0100
[BG] == Bengt Gördén
On 2022-02-12 00:19, Masaru Nomiya wrote:
Anyway, are you a musician?
Yes I am. Nowadays I'm an amateur musician. I used to be a professional until I got tired of the music business. Few sensible persons can make a living from it. You don't need skills, you need luck. Anyway, enough OT.
In other words, I ask this because I think jackd is a tool for senders, not for listeners.
Yeah. I agree but would rather say that it's more for those that need low latency. I use a preemptive kernel to get it reasonably low.
Please let me know what kind of USB interface tehy are.
That's not really the problem at the moment. The problem is that pipewire is getting in the way at upgrades. I did bite the bullet and did a "zypper dup" without blacklisting any packages. My Bluetooth stopped working. After a bit of fault isolation (getting to know pipewire even more) it was of course pipewire that had gotten in the way of pulseaudio and Bluetooth. Could not get my Boombox and my headphones to work. It turned out to be pipewire that was enabled, but only for audio and Bluetooth. Annoying. But I fixed it and I know what to do when it jumps on me. But I fear that with next "zypper dup" pipewire has some new surprises for me. But to keep me updated I'll fix what is broken until pipewire has reached a point where it works for low latency use cases and the support software is getting there. There are some things that must be there. Especially configuration and working GUI for the graphs. I know Helvum but right now it's not right for me. Crashed a few times when I tried it on another box. But there is a promising project by Rui Nuno Capela (audio software developer using openSUSE. The very same that made qjackctl, qtractor etc). The project is "qpwgraph" which I look forward to. Just to state it again. I'm not against pipewire. I think it's the right way to go and I'm looking forward to it, when it's ready for me and my use case. cheers, -- /bengan
Hello,
In the Message;
Subject : Re: Blacklist pipewire from zypper dup (TW)
Message-ID : <4c013ff7-d7b3-4102-a4cd-ad512bc9935a@bag.org>
Date & Time: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 00:18:05 +0100
[BG] == Bengt Gördén
Bengt Gördén wrote:
Carlos hinted that it could be done with pattern, right?
This is what I have: libpipewire-0_1-0 libpipewire-0_3-0
Guess with that one you'll have bad luck: lux:~% rpm -q --whatrequires 'libpipewire-0.3.so.0()(64bit)' xdg-desktop-portal-1.12.1-1.1.x86_64 mpv-0.34.1+git.20220117T134844.22b0bac28e-1.1.x86_64 kwin5-5.23.5-1.2.x86_64 plasma5-workspace-5.23.5-1.1.x86_64 pipewire-modules-0_3-0.3.45-1.1.x86_64 But that, and pipewire-modules-0_3+pipewire-spa-plugins-0_2 are the only ones that are installed here. Pipewire itself and the pipewire-* stuff isn't. Probably enough to block only that?
On 12/02/2022 11:59, Peter Suetterlin wrote:
Bengt Gördén wrote:
Carlos hinted that it could be done with pattern, right?
This is what I have: libpipewire-0_1-0 libpipewire-0_3-0 Guess with that one you'll have bad luck:
lux:~% rpm -q --whatrequires 'libpipewire-0.3.so.0()(64bit)' xdg-desktop-portal-1.12.1-1.1.x86_64 mpv-0.34.1+git.20220117T134844.22b0bac28e-1.1.x86_64 kwin5-5.23.5-1.2.x86_64 plasma5-workspace-5.23.5-1.1.x86_64 pipewire-modules-0_3-0.3.45-1.1.x86_64
But that, and pipewire-modules-0_3+pipewire-spa-plugins-0_2 are the only ones that are installed here. Pipewire itself and the pipewire-* stuff isn't. Probably enough to block only that?
The problem is that pipewire is *not* only audio, it also provides the video-routing for webcam, screensharing etc. This is why the desktop portal, browsers, and so on depend on it. You will not be able to remove it completely from a modern Linux desktop (and anyway original poster does not want to). Bengt, I think you will need to keep pipewire installed and updating regularly for the non-audio portions, but keep an eye on the config so that it does not take over audio. I am not sure the best way to do that, maybe specifically ensure that pipewire-alsa, pipewire-pulseaudio, and pipewire-jack are not installed (uninstall and 'zypper al') even if the pipewire main package is present. T
On 2022-02-22 05:41, Tejas Guruswamy wrote:
The problem is that pipewire is *not* only audio, it also provides the video-routing for webcam, screensharing etc. This is why the desktop portal, browsers, and so on depend on it. You will not be able to remove it completely from a modern Linux desktop (and anyway original poster does not want to).
Agreed.
Bengt, I think you will need to keep pipewire installed and updating regularly for the non-audio portions, but keep an eye on the config so that it does not take over audio. I am not sure the best way to do that, maybe specifically ensure that pipewire-alsa, pipewire-pulseaudio, and pipewire-jack are not installed (uninstall and 'zypper al') even if the pipewire main package is present.
Yes. Sounds sane and correct. # zypper al -m "add lock for pipewire audio" pipewire-alsa* pipewire-pulseaudio* pipewire-libjack* # zypper ll # | Name | Type | Repository | Comment --+----------------------+---------+------------+---------------------------- 1 | pipewire-alsa* | package | (any) | add lock for pipewire audio 2 | pipewire-libjack* | package | (any) | add lock for pipewire audio 3 | pipewire-pulseaudio* | package | (any) | add lock for pipewire audio and for now (due to the race condition for bluetooth and catch 22 for pipewire-pulseaudio) $ systemctl --user disable --now pipewire.{socket,service} Thanks all for your input. cheers, -- /bengan
On 2022-02-22 12:05, Bengt Gördén wrote:
# zypper al -m "add lock for pipewire audio" pipewire-alsa* pipewire-pulseaudio* pipewire-libjack*
# zypper ll
# | Name | Type | Repository | Comment --+----------------------+---------+------------+----------------------------
1 | pipewire-alsa* | package | (any) | add lock for pipewire audio 2 | pipewire-libjack* | package | (any) | add lock for pipewire audio 3 | pipewire-pulseaudio* | package | (any) | add lock for pipewire audio
AHHH! You can write comments on locks! What an interesting feature! Thanks :-) Pity that YaST can't do it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.3 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Hello,
In the Message;
Subject : Blacklist pipewire from zypper dup (TW)
Message-ID : <0a0e2978-2fab-0941-6299-c00581dd98d9@bag.org>
Date & Time: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 12:26:46 +0100
[BG] == Bengt Gördén
Hello,
In the Message;
Subject : Re: Blacklist pipewire from zypper dup (TW)
Message-ID : <87ee494kwd.wl-nomiya@galaxy.dti.ne.jp>
Date & Time: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 22:01:38 +0900
[MN] == Masaru Nomiya
participants (6)
-
Bengt Gördén -
Carlos E. R. -
Masaru Nomiya -
Per Jessen -
Peter Suetterlin -
Tejas Guruswamy