[opensuse] OFF: Processor selection
Hello: I apologize for this off topic question but this list has high traffic, and many of its members have decent knowledge regarding hardware technical things. I would like to buy a new AMD processor for my Gigabyte (GA-870-UD3) motherboard with AM3 socket. I have selected 3 processors but I don't know which one to choose from these three: 1. AMD Phenom II X6 1045T - HDT45TWFK6DGR (HDT45TWFGRBOX http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X6%201045T%20-%20HDT45TW... 2. AMD Phenom II X4 960T Black Edition - HD96ZTWFK4DGR (HD96ZTWFGRBOX http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X4%20960T%20Black%20Edit... 3. AMD Phenom II X4 910e - HD910EOCK4DGM (HD910EOCGMBOX) http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X4%20910e%20-%20HD910EOC... I selected these based on price and availability. The prices of these are very close, the difference is less than 20 US$. I don't want to overlock it, I only selected the Black Edition since it is available. My questions: 1. Regarding power consumption: cpu-world site says the following for 1945T: "On socket AM2+/AM3 platforms in the minimum performance state the processor runs at 800 MHz core voltage and has TDP 47.1 Watt" I could not find similar statements for the other two processors. What can be this value in case of tthose? Less than this or similar? My desktop computer is turned on all day (from morning to evening, not overnight) but used only periodically, tehrefore the minimum-power consumption is important. 2. The cpu-world site says regarding the FS bus the following: 1045T and 910e: 667 MHz Memory controller "One 2000 MHz 16-bit HyperTransport link" 960T: 2000 MHz (HyperTransport link) Are these two the same thing expressed by different terms, or is there really difference between them? In the latter case how does it affect performance? All in all I don't know which one to choose that is energy efficient but still powerful. I don't want to replace it within a few years. The computer would run openSUSE (12.2 probably) and has no specific requirements. Any suggestion or opinion is appreciated. Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
El 11/06/12 12:42, Istvan Gabor escribió:
Hello:
I apologize for this off topic question but this list has high traffic, and many of its members have decent knowledge regarding hardware technical things.
I would like to buy a new AMD processor for my Gigabyte (GA-870-UD3) motherboard with AM3 socket. I have selected 3 processors but I don't know which one to choose from these three:
1. AMD Phenom II X6 1045T - HDT45TWFK6DGR (HDT45TWFGRBOX http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X6%201045T%20-%20HDT45TW...
2. AMD Phenom II X4 960T Black Edition - HD96ZTWFK4DGR (HD96ZTWFGRBOX http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X4%20960T%20Black%20Edit...
3. AMD Phenom II X4 910e - HD910EOCK4DGM (HD910EOCGMBOX) http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X4%20910e%20-%20HD910EOC...
Just one question, why you want to buy a new computer with OLD processors ? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012/06/11 13:43 (GMT-0400) Cristian Rodríguez composed:
Istvan Gabor composed:
I would like to buy a new AMD processor for my Gigabyte (GA-870-UD3) motherboard with AM3 socket. I have selected ...
Just one question, why you want to buy a new computer with OLD processors ?
What new "computer"? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, June 11, 2012 12:42 PM Istvan Gabor wrote:
Hello:
I apologize for this off topic question but this list has high traffic, and many of its members have decent knowledge regarding hardware technical things.
I would like to buy a new AMD processor for my Gigabyte (GA-870-UD3) motherboard with AM3 socket. I have selected 3 processors but I don't know which one to choose from these three:
1. AMD Phenom II X6 1045T - HDT45TWFK6DGR (HDT45TWFGRBOX http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X6%201045T%20-%20HDT45T WFK6DGR.html
2. AMD Phenom II X4 960T Black Edition - HD96ZTWFK4DGR (HD96ZTWFGRBOX http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X4%20960T%20Black%20Edi tion%20-%20HD96ZTWFK4DGR.html
3. AMD Phenom II X4 910e - HD910EOCK4DGM (HD910EOCGMBOX) http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X4%20910e%20-%20HD910EO CK4DGM%20(HD910EOCGMBOX).html
I selected these based on price and availability. The prices of these are very close, the difference is less than 20 US$. I don't want to overlock it, I only selected the Black Edition since it is available.
My questions:
1. Regarding power consumption: cpu-world site says the following for 1945T: "On socket AM2+/AM3 platforms in the minimum performance state the processor runs at 800 MHz core voltage and has TDP 47.1 Watt" I could not find similar statements for the other two processors. What can be this value in case of tthose? Less than this or similar? My desktop computer is turned on all day (from morning to evening, not overnight) but used only periodically, tehrefore the minimum-power consumption is important.
2. The cpu-world site says regarding the FS bus the following: 1045T and 910e: 667 MHz Memory controller "One 2000 MHz 16-bit HyperTransport link"
960T: 2000 MHz (HyperTransport link)
Are these two the same thing expressed by different terms, or is there really difference between them? In the latter case how does it affect performance?
All in all I don't know which one to choose that is energy efficient but still powerful. I don't want to replace it within a few years. The computer would run openSUSE (12.2 probably) and has no specific requirements. Any suggestion or opinion is appreciated.
Thanks, Istvan
The 910e Deneb does draw less than the Thubans at minimum idle; note the .15v vcore differential. The "e" was of course intended for silent/low-power applications, and IIRC from reports it's draw is ~30w less at idle as long as using an AM3 socket (AM2+ requires more). Is it worth it? Depends on where you are, and for how long. And of course running cooler will in turn require less power for both cpu and system cooling (depending on your setup). Note however you could run into a limitation with this chip if you have to upgrade later, e.g., a new mobo/chipset. The 960T is just a slightly faster 1045T with only 4 cores unlocked; both are Thubans. The 1045T will pull a little more for the extra 2 cores, but at idle the difference is negligible. On the other hand, the 960T pulls just a bit more for its higher clock. You can essentially turn the 960T into a 1045T (unlock cores, under-volt) or the 1045T into a 960T (disable cores 5/6 and over-clock); power draw will be effectively the same. The HyperTransports and the Memory Controller are all the same. However, with a good mobo the Thuban controller can be run at 800MHz and IIRC it is more stable, too. Unless the 910e provides substantial savings or you are building an inexpensive silent machine, and seeing that you aren't interested in Blackie features, then the 1045T might be the best choice. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
2012. június 11. 22:31 napon Dennis Gallien
1. AMD Phenom II X6 1045T - HDT45TWFK6DGR (HDT45TWFGRBOX http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X6%201045T%20-%20HDT45T WFK6DGR.html
2. AMD Phenom II X4 960T Black Edition - HD96ZTWFK4DGR (HD96ZTWFGRBOX http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X4%20960T%20Black%20Edi tion%20-%20HD96ZTWFK4DGR.html
3. AMD Phenom II X4 910e - HD910EOCK4DGM (HD910EOCGMBOX) http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K10/AMD-Phenom%20II%20X4%20910e%20-%20HD910EO CK4DGM%20(HD910EOCGMBOX).html
I selected these based on price and availability. The prices of these are very close, the difference is less than 20 US$. I don't want to overlock it, I only selected the Black Edition since it is available.
My questions:
1. Regarding power consumption: cpu-world site says the following for 1945T: "On socket AM2+/AM3 platforms in the minimum performance state the processor runs at 800 MHz core voltage and has TDP 47.1 Watt" I could not find similar statements for the other two processors. What can be this value in case of tthose? Less than this or similar? My desktop computer is turned on all day (from morning to evening, not overnight) but used only periodically, tehrefore the minimum-power consumption is important.
2. The cpu-world site says regarding the FS bus the following: 1045T and 910e: 667 MHz Memory controller "One 2000 MHz 16-bit HyperTransport link"
960T: 2000 MHz (HyperTransport link)
Are these two the same thing expressed by different terms, or is there really difference between them? In the latter case how does it affect performance?
[snip]
The 910e Deneb does draw less than the Thubans at minimum idle; note the .15v vcore differential. The "e" was of course intended for silent/low-power applications, and IIRC from reports it's draw is ~30w less at idle as long as using an AM3 socket (AM2+ requires more). Is it worth it? Depends on where you are, and for how long. And of course running cooler will in turn require less power for both cpu and system cooling (depending on your setup). Note however you could run into a limitation with this chip if you have to upgrade later, e.g., a new mobo/chipset.
The 960T is just a slightly faster 1045T with only 4 cores unlocked; both are Thubans. The 1045T will pull a little more for the extra 2 cores, but at idle the difference is negligible. On the other hand, the 960T pulls just a bit more for its higher clock. You can essentially turn the 960T into a 1045T (unlock cores, under-volt) or the 1045T into a 960T (disable cores 5/6 and over-clock); power draw will be effectively the same.
The HyperTransports and the Memory Controller are all the same. However, with a good mobo the Thuban controller can be run at 800MHz and IIRC it is more stable, too.
Unless the 910e provides substantial savings or you are building an inexpensive silent machine, and seeing that you aren't interested in Blackie features, then the 1045T might be the best choice.
David, Thank you for the valuable info. I have another question. Can the operation system/programs take advantage of multiple processors? Can one application use only one processor or more? Does this depend on the specific program or how the OS sorts tasks? Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Istvan Gabor
I have another question. Can the operation system/programs take advantage of multiple processors? Can one application use only one processor or more? Does this depend on the specific program or how the OS sorts tasks?
My system is running on an AMD965 Black Edition... and the OS takes care of distributing tasks to the CPU, and does the job well. Sometimes I have a task running at 100% on one CPU and my system remains fully responsive and tasks are running on other CPU cores. If I set up a compile task I can control how many cores get involved and even max out all cores if I want (the fans get loud when I do that though). A while ago, Joe Brockmeier wrote an article about setting CPU affinity for specific apps using taskset. Worth a read if you're interested in doing this stuff.... http://www.serverwatch.com/tutorials/article.php/3915931/Using-Taskset-for-P... C. -- openSUSE 12.1 x86_64, KDE 4.8.3 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Istvan Gabor wrote:
I have another question. Can the operation system/programs take advantage of multiple processors? Can one application use only one processor or more? Does this depend on the specific program or how the OS sorts tasks?
Yes, the operating system takes advantage of multiple processors (and cores and threads). Linux and Unix before it have been leaders in this area. Whether an application can use more than one processor depends on the application. Typically, an application that can do so is called "multi-threaded" or "parallelised". One important case is applications that have a graphical interface. Well written applications of this type usually use one processor for the graphical interface and at least one other processor to do whatever other processing the application does. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth said the following on 06/12/2012 08:16 AM:
Istvan Gabor wrote:
I have another question. Can the operation system/programs take advantage of multiple processors? Can one application use only one processor or more? Does this depend on the specific program or how the OS sorts tasks?
Yes, the operating system takes advantage of multiple processors (and cores and threads). Linux and Unix before it have been leaders in this area.
Whether an application can use more than one processor depends on the application. Typically, an application that can do so is called "multi-threaded" or "parallelised". One important case is applications that have a graphical interface. Well written applications of this type usually use one processor for the graphical interface and at least one other processor to do whatever other processing the application does.
To some degree that is beside the point. Linux is a real multi-tasking OS. if there is a "job" that is runnable and a free processor then the OS will run that "job" on that process. OK, I'm using the terms loosely and sloppily, but the general point holds. I've noticed that my laptop runs faster than my desktop. My desktop: 3GHz single core AMD, 4G of ram My laptop: 2GHz dual core Intel, 1.25 G of ram (and old!) Neither machine "swaps"; Linux is very good at memory management :-) Ah, you say, graphics processing. Well there is that! Actually the desktop has a more modern, more capable card with a good bit more memory on board. Graphics processing can be very intensive if you have lots of overlapping and redrawing. One reason I use KDEs 'virtual desktop' with one desktop per application and each window therein maximised. KISS. (Oh right using some light weight desktop manager would be even faster ....) Hmm. I wonder if I can upgrade the CPU on my desktop to a mulitcore or do I have to upgrade the Mobo as well? No, the real question is why can't we use David Cheriton's "V System" (q.v. go google)? This was a distributed OS based on message passing where the processes, libraries and even the innards of the OS can be (redundantly if needed) spread across many machines in the network. (This would even support a disk driver that was on a different machine from the one on which the disk hardware was running!) No, not virtual machines but real subroutine level distributed processing. I have - many of us have - old machines "in the basement" that could be utilized to increase the aggregate processing power. Cheriton's work, along with that of others like Brinch Hansen on California and Morven Gentleman in Waterloo - and many others - showed that parallelism in processing was an easy route to increased computation power without the need for faster hardware[1]. And yes, that is why Dave's point about the design of the applications so they _can_ me multi-threaded is so important. You can google for a lot of the history and issues to do with this trade off, the experimentation, the various types of 'axillary processors' that have been used (e.g. for array processing), types of parallelism, off-loading of graphics processing, distributed processing and message passing, and more. I certainly found it interesting reading at the time. A lot of it has never been commercially exploited. [1] This was an old argument and queuing theory was not as helpful as one might think. There was a long standing debate between the mainframe people (think IBM) and the mini people (think DEC and others) as to whether a fast, powerful single queue server was better than a number of less powerful parallel servers. Think about that the next time you are in the supermarket or bank. Some tellers are very good, very fast without being impolite, some are just slow. At my local supermarket the slow tellers are put on the "8 items or less" lane :-) -- Every great advance in natural knowledge has involved the absolute rejection of authority. Thomas H. Huxley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward wrote:
Hmm. I wonder if I can upgrade the CPU on my desktop to a mulitcore or do I have to upgrade the Mobo as well?
In many cases it will work fine, but I think it's really a BIOS question. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.0°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-06-12 14:51, Anton Aylward wrote:
At my local supermarket the slow tellers are put on the "8 items or less" lane :-)
Or, maybe they appear slow because they are in that lane, and have to stop to take the money or card :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/XRgwACgkQIvFNjefEBxpvigCfdskCmL6DqO4qBUUvyOecsoeX li4An2deQz822KwlJl6hOvjshDl9VEkz =+XNY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2012-06-12 14:51, Anton Aylward wrote:
At my local supermarket the slow tellers are put on the "8 items or less" lane :-) Or, maybe they appear slow because they are in that lane, and have to stop to take the money or card :-)
I always thought the slow clerks were in the lane I chose. ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
James Knott said the following on 06/12/2012 09:57 AM:
I always thought the slow clerks were in the lane I chose. ;-)
They must see you coming and slow down so defer having to serve you. Just watch, if you go away, out of sight, they'll speed up again. -- People who love sausages, respect the law, and work with IT standards shouldn't watch any of them being made. -- Peter Gutmann -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-06-12 16:11, Anton Aylward wrote:
James Knott said the following on 06/12/2012 09:57 AM:
I always thought the slow clerks were in the lane I chose. ;-)
They must see you coming and slow down so defer having to serve you. Just watch, if you go away, out of sight, they'll speed up again.
Or switch lane. Then the folks on your old lane will get out before you :-p - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/XULcACgkQIvFNjefEBxp/qgCgoB0WiFyDOce8bJtVCM3behIm bgUAoKpiIhd1l78pQem8lYZHtfHiNSok =Ov7A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth wrote:
Istvan Gabor wrote:
I have another question. Can the operation system/programs take advantage of multiple processors? Can one application use only one processor or more? Does this depend on the specific program or how the OS sorts tasks?
Yes, the operating system takes advantage of multiple processors (and cores and threads). Linux and Unix before it have been leaders in this area.
Let's not forget MVS and VM of course. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen said the following on 06/12/2012 09:22 AM:
Dave Howorth wrote:
Istvan Gabor wrote:
I have another question. Can the operation system/programs take advantage of multiple processors? Can one application use only one processor or more? Does this depend on the specific program or how the OS sorts tasks?
Yes, the operating system takes advantage of multiple processors (and cores and threads). Linux and Unix before it have been leaders in this area.
Let's not forget MVS and VM of course.
Indeed! Not other multi-processing OS from other vendors. And in its time, UNIX was a radical. All those other multi tasking OS of the 50s, 60 and through into the 70s (including DEC's VMS) had the idea of a fixed number of tasks preconfigured before boot when the OS setup was configured. What was it called? "sysgen" or something like that. Processes were deed to be "heavyweight" and then along came UNIX with lightweight, dynamically created processes that would vanish again once they were done. Just look: the shell created a print formatter that fed into the print driver and they came and went so fast that there was no reason to do the kind of process resource allocation and tuning that was such an essential facet of the management of mainframes. Damn it all! The shell was creating - forking off - light weight transient process that would do something, something pretty trivial, and die. Lets face it, the long lived programs we have today, database servers, firefox, thunderbird and more, are an effort to make Linux behave like the old mainframes; big, long lived, memory intensive applications that create their own internal "multiprogramming: with threading. Think CICS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CICS#History Her must be some phrase analogous to "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" that applies here. -- Life is full of contradictions.... No it isn't. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Anton Aylward -
C -
Carlos E. R. -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Dave Howorth -
Dennis Gallien -
Felix Miata -
Istvan Gabor -
James Knott -
Per Jessen