On Thursday 22 January 2004 2:02 am, Geoffrey wrote:

You guys have got to be the biggest a**holes I've ever seen on any list. Continuing to waste list bandwidth with totally OT crap. Why don't you guys take your windows discussion to some windows list?

-- Until later, Geoffrey esoteric@3times25.net

Building secure systems inspite of Microsoft

Sorry Geoffrey, if you look at Tom Emerson's post on this thread, after your text above, there is quite a nugget of interest to me. OK the topic is peripheral, but Tom's post shows that understanding the topic does help with understanding something about Linux which will surely crop up. I think the best thing this list can do for Linux [and hence for what we want in computing] is to be able to support windows refugees, on their terms. Which means 1] understanding their world and 2] not making it off topic, so that people get frightened of offending other people like you. If you think it is OT, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. But, there are divergent opinions, so yours should not necessarily prevail. And these guys do not deserve the 2 star a**holes description. Vince Littler

Q17. I was being polite and prefixed the subject of my off-topic posting      with '[OT]'.  After posting it I received a nasty message about      the thread being blocked and that if I persist in trying to start      off-topic threads I'll be unsubscribed and blocked from resubscribing.      What's up with that? A17. Sorry, we really have no choice.  We've asked nicely over the years      for people to take their off-topic threads elsewhere in the interest      of keeping the messages per day on SLE under 200 and, well, that      just didn't work.  We now have a list, suse-ot, that's devoted      solely to off-topic discussions.  That's right, all off-topic all      the time.  Email suse-ot-subscribe@suse.com to subscribe.

Every so often a bit of true genius is revealed! Thanks Vince! PeterB On Thursday 22 January 2004 02:24 pm, Vince Littler wrote:

On Thursday 22 January 2004 7:03 pm, Joe Sullivan wrote:

...

Q17. I was being polite and prefixed the subject of my off-topic posting with '[OT]'. After posting it I received a nasty message about the thread being blocked and that if I persist in trying to start off-topic threads I'll be unsubscribed and blocked from resubscribing. What's up with that? A17. Sorry, we really have no choice. We've asked nicely over the years for people to take their off-topic threads elsewhere in the interest of keeping the messages per day on SLE under 200 and, well, that just didn't work. We now have a list, suse-ot, that's devoted solely to off-topic discussions. That's right, all off-topic all the time. Email suse-ot-subscribe@suse.com to subscribe.

Are you volunteering to be the moderator, Joe? I have a very difficult question for you, but if you are very good at getting this question right, perhaps you will be a real moderator one day. Wouldn't that be nice?

Now, Joe here is your very difficult question. Remeber, there is no right answer, not that I know of, which is why I don't pretend to be a moderator myself. But I can tell you, it is all about having the right personal qualities and making people feel really good about themselves. So, Joe, here is your question, read it very carefully and think hard before you answer, we don't want a knee jerk reaction now do we? Because that might only make the problem worse.

So, how would you deal with the person who writes the samples at the end of this post?

If you read behind the words and look for the emotions, Joe, you might guess, he is very angry, and you would probably be right. So you must make him feel good about himself so he doesn't feel the need to show that he can control what other peole talk about on the list. You mustn't let him know that you really think he is acting like an overtired and selfish 4 year old, must you Joe? Even though he only takes into account his own opinions, you have to reassure him that his opinions are respected by all the other people on the list even though at the same time many of the other people have quite different opinions of their own. It is a difficult problem isn't it, Joe? And some of the people are laughing at his anger, which isn't going to help any. No, the people who are laughing are very bad too, Joe, but they are not hurting themselves with their anger.

If you try really hard to look to the interests of all of the people on the list, perhaps you will come up with a very good answer, Joe. And if you do, perhaps you would speak to this person off list for us and help him have a nice day too. Please don't make him go away, just help him be a nice person again. If you make him tolerant, that would be just what we need in a moderator.

But Joe, don't think that this is simple, he is so angry he is very likely to get more angry, and come out with even more profanity and abuse. That wouldn't be very nice at all would it, Joe?

sample 1: =========

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This party's over, get the fuck out.

sample 2: =========

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Yo Low-IQ boys!

Re-read the purpose of this damn list.

What is it?

Is it "whine"? Nope.

Take this incredibly stupid crap off the list. Nobody else signed up for it.

And for the love of Goddess, this is proof positive of a desperate need to get a damn life.

Get one while you quit *intentionally* violating the purpose of this list.

Don't go away mad. Just go away.

sample 3: =========

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Read The FAQ, or FAQ off

sample 4: =========

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You're right. After being told several times the topic is inappropriate for this list, yet being too damn brain-dead to comprehend that, the censorship was inappropriate. They're assholes, plain and simple.

-- -- Proud to use SuSE Linux, since 5.2 Loving using SuSE Linux 8.2 MyBlog http://vancampen.org/blog/ Nothing is as perfect as a Cultured Diamond There was never any Blood on a Cultured Diamond --

-----Original Message----- From: Patrick Shanahan To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:49:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [SLE] Read The FAQ, or FAQ off...

* Vince Littler [01-22-04 15:32]:

...

Are you volunteering to be the moderator, Joe? I have a very

difficult

...

question for you, but if you are very good at getting this question right, perhaps you will be a real moderator one day. Wouldn't that be nice?

Please come back, Chris.

I'll drink to that, errr I mean I second that. Ken Schneider

Vince Littler wrote:

If you try really hard to look to the interests of all of the people on the list, perhaps you will come up with a very good answer, Joe.

First of all, it's not the interests of the people on the list that's questioned, it's the OT postings. It doesn't matter if you're interested in go carts, this is a Linux list. The discussions about the history of OS/2 and whether you can boot to dos from windows 98 are clearly off topic for this list. I find it interesting that you post samples from different posters and speak as if it's one person. In truth, there are multiple people on the list who are tired of the OT posts, and you're hearing from them. So how do you handle those posts? You stop the OT posts and you won't see the frustration which is generated by them. -- Until later, Geoffrey esoteric@3times25.net Building secure systems inspite of Microsoft

On Thursday 22 January 2004 14:17, Geoffrey wrote:

I find it interesting that you post samples from different posters and speak as if it's one person.

Had you read more carefully, you would see that Vince posted samples from only Joe Sullivan, who is also the person who made the nasty first post. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen