Ben Rosenberg wrote:

Juergen,

You know I wouldn't screw you around, but Sendmail and NFS are not really part of 'Basic Installation Support' .. those types of configurations can be complicated and time consuming. iSupport already loose SuSE money..and know that's lame..but a fact. So that is why they sent you to Business Support for that stuff. I am sorry, but otherwise we wouldn't be able stay in business.

Regards,

I know Ben, at least one has to be constructive. The fact that there are changes to the previous version an that it's the end users problem to find out is annoying. The constructice answer would probably be to *include* articles in *advance* to the SDB if such changes arise. Like : ymptom: sendmail doesn't work. "505 access denied" cause: sendmail is now compiled with the tcp-wrapper library. If you use hosts.deny you vave a problem olution: add ...... to hosts.allow. roughly like that. I learned on this occasion the obvious: If you are stuck, first ask the list, then SuSE support. ;-) Juergen

--> -->yes. I was not amused, fetchmail got the mail and sendmail said "f*** -->off". but fetchmail deleted the messages on the server. I didn't trust -->the update, so I watched it *once* happen, found out how to telnet to -->port 25 for testing. "505 Access denied" turned into a nightmare. The -->"old" sendmail worked perfect. -->SuSE support was no great help, hinted me to an updated version of -->sendmail that didn't work either and pointed to the commercial support. -->;-( -->A hint to the tcp wrapper library thing would have saved a lot of time. -->I got the feeling they just look up and down the SDB and post the most -->promising articles. -->Btw: same is true for NFS (think the user space deamon). I am still a -->bit cross about that. --> -->Juergen --> -->-- -->=========================================== __ _ -->Juergen Braukmann juergen.braukmann@gmx.de| -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ -->Tel: 0201-743648 dk4jb@db0qs.#nrw.deu.eu | /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / -->===========================================_\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ --> -->-- -->To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com -->For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com -->Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq -- Benjamin Rosenberg The Linux Experts

-- =========================================== __ _ Juergen Braukmann juergen.braukmann@gmx.de| -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Tel: 0201-743648 dk4jb@db0qs.#nrw.deu.eu | /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / ===========================================_\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

Actually, ISTR, it is just the basic (ie non-network) installation that the support covers. I doubt that anyone in their right mind would offer free netork support on arbitary machines! Alan Lenton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kaare Rasmussen" To: "SuSE Linux English" Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [SLE] Sendmail in SuSE 7.0

...

configurations can be complicated and time consuming. iSupport already loose SuSE money..and know that's lame..but a fact. So that

Hope you're not part of management at SuSE!

If you consider the support division to loose money just because they give users the feedback they need and they've been sold - it's printed all over the place that customers buy 60/90 days of support.

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Ben Rosenberg wrote:

No, I am not part of management.

Yes, you do get 60-90 of "Basic" installation support which covers such things as printer and video card setup..etc. I doubt anyone would concider Sendmail a basic part of setup. It's not that I wouldn't and haven't answered such questions on the SLE on my own time..of my own free will. You can find exactly what is ment by "Basic" in appendix A (7.0) or appendix H (6.4 and back).

yes, but the sad thing was that due to a change something workin ceased. On the other side, support gave me an tip on my unsupported scanner problem, that led me -indirect- to a solution.

I didn't mean to sound like SuSE doesn't care or want to give good support, but these things are broken up into difficulty levels..and they are dealt with this way. I think Alan has a handle on how difficult it would be to support so many machines and configurations that can come with programs such as Apache, Sendmail and other complicated programs that are generally ment for servers.

never the less there is a generic support for a sendmail setup via yast... (In case I told you something forgotten, please do not remove it .. ;-)) I appreciate it's there...

I hope you are not really as angry as you sound about this and if you have any questions please feel free to post them. I will try to get you an answer ASAP. Please be nice about it and realize we do a very good job and the best that we can.

I realy appreciate the existence of this list, as a part of an extended SuSE support. ("support yourselfes please ;-)"). I also appreciate your, Lenz, Micheal, Thorsten and the other SuSE'ers help... Juergen

Thanks :)

* Alan Lenton (alan@ibgames.com) [001022 13:46]: -->Actually, ISTR, it is just the basic (ie non-network) installation that the -->support covers. --> -->I doubt that anyone in their right mind would offer free netork support on -->arbitary machines! --> -->Alan Lenton --> -->----- Original Message ----- -->From: "Kaare Rasmussen" -->To: "SuSE Linux English" -->Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 10:16 AM -->Subject: Re: [SLE] Sendmail in SuSE 7.0 --> --> -->> > configurations can be complicated and time consuming. iSupport -->> > already loose SuSE money..and know that's lame..but a fact. So that -->> -->> Hope you're not part of management at SuSE! -->> -->> If you consider the support division to loose money just because they give -->> users the feedback they need and they've been sold - it's printed all over -->> the place that customers buy 60/90 days of support. -->> -->> -- -->> To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com -->> For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com -->> Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq -->> -->> --> --> -->-- -->To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com -->For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com -->Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq -- Benjamin Rosenberg The Linux Experts

-- =========================================== __ _ Juergen Braukmann juergen.braukmann@gmx.de| -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Tel: 0201-743648 dk4jb@db0qs.#nrw.deu.eu | /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / ===========================================_\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

I missed the earlier part of this thread, but it seems to me that there has been a lot of complaining lately about how SuSE isn't giving everything to everyone for nothing. Think about it now. Even if you do pay $65, let's suppose an earlier poster was right and Suse only gets $35 of this. Now, subtract out SuSE's cost per unit, not including support, but including all the coders, packagers, marketers, translators, document writers, paper, printing, shipping, office overhead, hardware, bandwidth, and so on, and now imagine the hourly cost of a support employee, including benefits and office space and hardware and training. I think that what SuSE realistically gets from you buys you about 10 seconds of support time. Support is basically a loss leader. I guess the idea is you will keep buying SuSE (like me) and never use the i-support service (like me). Red Hat is the same -- you talk to them, they get your install going -- call back when it's time for X! Once X is up and running, <click>, call is over. But then there are people who think buying SuSE once confers on them all sorts of rights to instant gratification at every turn, esp. upgrades. SuSE is selling a very well put-together package, that is very complete and saves a lot of people the cost, time and PITA of downloading ten squillion packages. For most people this is worth the cost. And on the other hand, as has been mentioned, we are off the MS/Mac upgrade treadmill. If 6.4 is working, why go to 7.0? As for installation issues, including support, perhaps the companies could still be a little more honest on the box. Linux requires a time investment to get used to if your only experience is Mac or Windows. Before switching, I read three or four books to get a feel for things. If I hadn't done this, I might have had a considerably more difficult time. Suse's new boxes are pretty chipper and don't really hint at this. Fortunately, the documentation is quite good. SuSE: my local bookstore simply did not stock SuSE Pro at all. So, if they sell the same number of copies of SuSE Personal as they did of SuSE 6.4, SuSE will not be coming out ahead. Hopefully they sell lots more. ciao C -- Corvin Russell -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq