On Friday 17 March 2006 08:55 am, Sunny wrote:

On 3/17/06, kai wrote:

...

I was just about to purchase a DVD from Germany when it occurred to me that they don't use region one.

I was wondering if I could play this on my system using Kaffeine or MPlayer. I have Kaffeine already setup to play region one DVDs, but I wasn't sure about the others.

Oh, in fact, also aren't European DVD's encoded with PAL? I wonder if the laptop is PAL or NTSC or if it matters.

It will not be a problem. I can play whatever I throw in the drive. PAL and NTSC does matters only for the TV. And even then, you can set your TV-out for the right format.

Hey, thanks for the information. A buddy of mine in Germany is sending me a home-brew DVD transfer from some videos we shot back in college. (Not not THOSE kind of videos...) I'll let y'all know how they play. -- kai - www.perfectreign.com www.livebeans.com - the new NetBeans community 43...for those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.

On Monday 20 March 2006 03:10, kai wrote:

Hey, thanks for the information. A buddy of mine in Germany is sending me a home-brew DVD transfer from some videos we shot back in college. (Not not THOSE kind of videos...)

That's never going to be a problem. Region encoding only applies to commercial DVDs from movie companies. Home recording don't use that at all -- Certified: Yes. Certifiable: of course! jabber ID: anders@rydsbo.net

On 20/03/06, Michael W Cocke wrote:

I read (and I don't recall the details, you might google) that one of the bigger dvd drive manufacturers just got sued by the RIAA for making drives that ignore the country encoding. If you want one of those drives you should probably hurry...

Mike- --

I thought it was a software thing that decided country encoding. Is this incorrect? -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== Xmas may be over but, PLEASE DON'T drink and drive you'll make it to the next one that way. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On Monday 20 March 2006 12:16, Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Monday 2006-03-20 at 10:59 -0000, Kevanf1 wrote:

...

I thought it was a software thing that decided country encoding. Is this incorrect?

Yes and no... it could be software, but in the drive procesor, not the main cpu. So, for us, it is hardware. Kind of, anyway.

-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

If your dvd drive is set to region 1, is it still possible to copy the files off a region 2 disk onto your computer? If you can, then would you be able to watch the dvd using the copied files on your computer assuming libdvdcss is installed? Peter C

Kevanf1 wrote:

On 20/03/06, Peter Collier wrote:

...

If your dvd drive is set to region 1, is it still possible to copy the files off a region 2 disk onto your computer? If you can, then would you be able to watch the dvd using the copied files on your computer assuming libdvdcss is installed?

Peter C

I'd have thought that it would balk as soon as it knew it was region 2. So, no copying could be done because it couldn't (wouldn't be allowed to) read the original disk in the first place.

However, there are hacks available in the Windows world that I think alter the firmware of the drive to make it region free. I do not know if they would run in a Linux system though. They only need to be run once and they then write to the drives firmware in a similar manner as a BIOS update...I think :-)

Are you sure? Did you actually try for instance to vobcopy the disk? I cannot imagine, that a *PC* dvd rom drive does anything in the way of region coding. I cannot try this myself as the all DVD's I own have the region code 2. So my answer to the OP would have been: sure you can. Vobcopy the DVD, shrink it (DVDshrink under wine) as you see fit and burn it. But this is only legal if you own it and in some countries even then it isn't. And, yes, you need libdvdcss. Regards, -- Jos van Kan registered Linux user #152704

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2006-03-20 at 14:50 -0000, Peter Collier wrote:

If your dvd drive is set to region 1, is it still possible to copy the files off a region 2 disk onto your computer? If you can, then would you be able to watch the dvd using the copied files on your computer assuming libdvdcss is installed?

The encryption scheme used by dvd movies does not impede copying files. You may make a byte by byte copy, dvd to dvd without problems, provided, that is, that the destination dvd has the same size. Or dvd to hd, no problem at all. The resulting files will be equal to the originals, and equally encrypted. What the encryption scheme impedes you is playback only. And, in linux, the only way to play back a dvd movie is by decrypting it, using the (claimed to be illegal) decss lib. Region is ignored. - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFEHvHstTMYHG2NR9URAkOlAJ91o6pXyLaFhRgGVYlqXcoCleO02QCfRUfA PjtRU69qIxfjqMK3Qz3rWMI= =fDL5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 17/03/06, Paul Cartwright wrote:

On Fri March 17 2006 11:50 am, kai wrote:

...

I was wondering if I could play this on my system using Kaffeine or MPlayer. I have Kaffeine already setup to play region one DVDs, but I wasn't sure about the others. you can change the region on a player a number of times, I forget...3??5??

Oh, in fact, also aren't European DVD's encoded with PAL? I wonder if the laptop is PAL or NTSC or if it matters.

I can play PAL & NTSC on my computer and my NEW dvd player hooked up to my stereo. My OLD player would play PAL in black & white only..

and here is some MORE info: http://www.dvdidle.com/dvd-region-free.htm

--

I've had that but the other way round. I did have the equipment to transfer a NTSC tape over to UK PAL system though :-) The difference is the fact that NTSC has 425 scanning lines whereas PAL uses 625 (I think I have those figures correct but they are from memory) The new HD format will be universal :-) -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== Xmas may be over but, PLEASE DON'T drink and drive you'll make it to the next one that way. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On Saturday 18 March 2006 20:50, James Knott wrote:

Kevanf1 wrote:

...

I've had that but the other way round. I did have the equipment to transfer a NTSC tape over to UK PAL system though :-) The difference is the fact that NTSC has 425 scanning lines whereas PAL uses 625 (I think I have those figures correct but they are from memory) The new HD format will be universal :-)

NTSC is 525 lines

Where do you get that? Pal is 720x576 and NTSC is 720x480, both in the traditional 4x3 format. widescreen has changed it a little, but I don't see 525 anywhere There is something called NTSC/525, but in that there are only 480 lines of video, and the rest is used to transmit extra data -- Certified: Yes. Certifiable: of course! jabber ID: anders@rydsbo.net

Anders Johansson wrote:

On Saturday 18 March 2006 20:50, James Knott wrote:

...

Kevanf1 wrote:

...

I've had that but the other way round. I did have the equipment to transfer a NTSC tape over to UK PAL system though :-) The difference is the fact that NTSC has 425 scanning lines whereas PAL uses 625 (I think I have those figures correct but they are from memory) The new HD format will be universal :-) NTSC is 525 lines

Where do you get that? Pal is 720x576 and NTSC is 720x480, both in the traditional 4x3 format. widescreen has changed it a little, but I don't see 525 anywhere

There is something called NTSC/525, but in that there are only 480 lines of video, and the rest is used to transmit extra data

In both NTSC and PAL &SECAM. The number refers to the total number of horizontal lines per frame, including the superblack sync bar. For NTSC, that number is 525 and it's 625 for PAL & SECAM. NTSC has had 525 lines, since before WW2. These numbers predate personal computers by many years. Also, NTSC is 60 fields/second or 30 frams/sec. PAL & SECAM are 50 fields and 25 frames.

Alan Dowley wrote:

...

In both NTSC and PAL &SECAM. The number refers to the total number of horizontal lines per frame, including the superblack sync bar. For NTSC, that number is 525 and it's 625 for PAL & SECAM. NTSC has had 525 lines, since before WW2. These numbers predate personal computers by many years. Also, NTSC is 60 fields/second or 30 frams/sec. PAL & SECAM are 50 fields and 25 frames.

So when is the US going to catch up with European technology. We moved from 405 to 625 many years ago.

The analog system is supposed to be gone in a few years. Also, that 525 line system dates back to ~1940, with colour added in the mid '50s. The 625 lines systems didn't come in until the '60s and could take advantage of the lessons learned with NTSC.

On 18/03/06, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Saturday 2006-03-18 at 16:02 -0500, James Knott wrote:

...

The analog system is supposed to be gone in a few years. Also, that 525 line system dates back to ~1940, with colour added in the mid '50s. The 625 lines systems didn't come in until the '60s and could take advantage of the lessons learned with NTSC.

True. Also, there are also differences in the bandwidth available for colour encoding.

Unfortunately, there are also several new HD standards. I'm unsure how many, but there is at least one for Europe, another in the US, another in Japan, probably another in China...

- --

The cynic in me says that this has been done as a way to stop people [in Europe] getting cheap hardware from the US. A similar thing as the DVD region coding. -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== Xmas may be over but, PLEASE DON'T drink and drive you'll make it to the next one that way. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

* Kevanf1 [03-19-06 07:11]:

The cynic in me says that this has been done as a way to stop people [in Europe] getting cheap hardware from the US. A similar thing as the DVD region coding.

Close, but no cigar. It is to force you to buy more media. It's all about money and greed. -- Patrick Shanahan Registered Linux User #207535 http://wahoo.no-ip.org @ http://counter.li.org HOG # US1244711 Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2

Anders Johansson wrote:

On Sunday 19 March 2006 13:08, Kevanf1 wrote:

...

The cynic in me says that this has been done as a way to stop people [in Europe] getting cheap hardware from the US.

I can think of many words to describe US technology, but cheap would not be one of them. Most US companies have their stuff manufactured in the far east now, to get away from the high cost of production (of course the same is true for Europe)

...

A similar thing as the DVD region coding.

That had nothing to do with prices, it was all about timing. Movies premiered in cinemas much later than in the states, and they didn't want people buying them on DVD before they had their run in the theatres

It would be nice if that regional coding had an expiry date. For example a DVD could be played anywhere 2 years after release. This would accomodate such market protection, while allowing full use of purchased DVDs. As it stands now, what happens when someone buys several DVDs and moves to a different area? If they move from Europe to North America, they'll likely have to buy a new player and won't be able to play their movies.

On Sunday 19 March 2006 09:48, James Knott wrote:

It would be nice if that regional coding had an expiry date.  For example a DVD could be played anywhere 2 years after release.  This would accomodate such market protection, while allowing full use of purchased DVDs.  As it stands now, what happens when someone buys several DVDs and moves to a different area?  If they move from Europe to North America, they'll likely have to buy a new player and won't be able to play their movies.

Most players will allow you to change the region code.... up to 5 times.

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 10:13:19 -0500 Bruce Marshall wrote:

Most players will allow you to change the region code.... up to 5 times.

That doesn't help someone who wants to play DVD disks having two different region codes. Let's say someone is in Europe. He locally purchases some DVD disks for the Europe region (call them E1, E2, ... En). Then he comes to the U.S. He now locally purchases some DVD disks for the U.S. region (call them U1, U2, ... Un). If he has only *one* DVD player (no matter where purchased) he can set it to only __one__ region (either for U or for E). It will then NOT play the disks having the other region code. [If he tries to change the region code back and forth, upon the fifth change the DVD player will typically remain *stuck* at its then current region code, and will refuse to change the region code any more.] What people often do is to purchase -two- DVD players and set the region code in the one for E and in the other for U. Then, by choosing the appropriate player to use, they can play the disks they have of either kind. mikus

On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 10:13 -0500, Bruce Marshall wrote:

On Sunday 19 March 2006 09:48, James Knott wrote:

...

It would be nice if that regional coding had an expiry date. For example a DVD could be played anywhere 2 years after release. This would accomodate such market protection, while allowing full use of purchased DVDs. As it stands now, what happens when someone buys several DVDs and moves to a different area? If they move from Europe to North America, they'll likely have to buy a new player and won't be able to play their movies.

Most players will allow you to change the region code.... up to 5 times.

Why so limited? -- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/

On Saturday 25 March 2006 21:39, Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Saturday 2006-03-25 at 09:00 -0800, Carl William Spitzer IV wrote:

...

...

Most players will allow you to change the region code.... up to 5 times.

Why so limited?

So that you don't use it...

-- Cheers, Carlos Robinson

Have a look at www.dvd.reviewer.co.uk/info/multiregion Mike

On Sun, 2006-03-26 at 13:36 +0200, Hylton Conacher(ZR1HPC) wrote:

Hasn't the region decoding been cracked yet and made available to the open source community(DECSS or summit)? When can we expect to see it in SuSE?

The region thing isn't an encryption or encoding. It's just a number. It is enforced by the player software, which checks if the number in the player matches the number on the disc. It isn't something you have to get around, you just don't do it. As far as I know, no player software for linux does it I have never had a problem with region 1 DVDs on my system, which has always been firmly located in region 2

On Sun, 2006-03-26 at 07:45 -0800, Joseph Loo wrote:

Carl William Spitzer IV wrote:

...

On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 10:13 -0500, Bruce Marshall wrote:

...

On Sunday 19 March 2006 09:48, James Knott wrote:

...

It would be nice if that regional coding had an expiry date. For example a DVD could be played anywhere 2 years after release. This would accomodate such market protection, while allowing full use of purchased DVDs. As it stands now, what happens when someone buys several DVDs and moves to a different area? If they move from Europe to North America, they'll likely have to buy a new player and won't be able to play their movies.

Most players will allow you to change the region code.... up to 5 times.

Why so limited?

You can than the movie industry.

Once a decade I might see one movie a month. Two or three mostly and usually the ones I want eventually come to TV. Thats because they did not stay in theaters long enough for me to get to them. I would rather spend the money on new hardware. -- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/

On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 09:23 -0600, Alan Dowley wrote:

...

It would be nice if that regional coding had an expiry date. For example a DVD could be played anywhere 2 years after release. This would accomodate such market protection, while allowing full use of purchased DVDs. As it stands now, what happens when someone buys several DVDs and moves to a different area? If they move from Europe to North America, they'll likely have to buy a new player and won't be able to play their movies.

I have 2 DELL Laptops, one with WinXP (cough) and one with Linux 9.3 (hurrah). The Linux one plays DVD's from any region and does not affect the region code of the player. The windows does and lets me change it up to 6 times before it fixes to the last one. I can even run a DELL option to manually change this. As there are region free DVD players when is someone gong to come up with a way of flashing and DVD player and make it region fee???

And where would I find such a region free player? For myself i would rather play them on TV and not on the computer as the screen is getting old and is small anyway. -- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/

On Sunday 19 March 2006 09:48, James Knott wrote:

It would be nice if that regional coding had an expiry date. For example a DVD could be played anywhere 2 years after release. This would accomodate such market protection, while allowing full use of purchased DVDs. As it stands now, what happens when someone buys several DVDs and moves to a different area? If they move from Europe to North America, they'll likely have to buy a new player and won't be able to play their movies.

You get a region free player. You get a universal voltage player. Nick

On Sunday 19 March 2006 16:16, Carlos E. R. wrote:

We were talking about HD TV, or digital TV, that doesn't have a global standard (DVD does, for the moment). The idea proposed was that it was to stop us (european) from buying tv sets and such from the us, which being a bigger market might be cheaper - even if our equipment is also made somewhere else.

So you mean the tech companies would voluntarily make their production process more complex and expensive by having to have multiple production lines for different markets, just so they can charge $20 extra from European customers? Doesn't seem very likely Besides which, I was under the impression that HDTV would be a true global standard -- Certified: Yes. Certifiable: of course! jabber ID: anders@rydsbo.net

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2006-03-19 at 15:28 -0000, Kevanf1 wrote:

This complexity is already being played out (yet again) with the two differing versions of the new generation of DVD. We have Blu Ray and HD DVD. So, the manufacturers will indeed try different standards and hope that theirs wins out. In the meantime, we, the customer, lose out.

There is also Enhanced Video Disk (EVD), the Chinese standard, red laser based; they also have another competing standard there, named HVD. You can read the report in Dec 05 ieee spectrum (http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/dec05/2361) - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFEHb4htTMYHG2NR9URAka1AJ0VC1wB2g6FWx+ThBIV0GQWxeFwtACeNFND 0ka1xmAGnrU59YkebQ7fBr8= =QJrg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Monday 2006-03-20 at 09:45 -0000, Kevanf1 wrote:

Crikey, Carlos! I didn't know about that one. This is getting really silly now then. I can't help but wonder whether the Chinese might just make a big headway into the market then. They have the manufacturing base and the marketing ability to be able to swamp the market. All they need to do is undercut the Japanese manufacturers on price - which they can easily do.

Right. Even if red laser means lower density. The starting point for them is that they don't want to pay some one else for use of standards, but that's not the only reason, it is complex, it seems. It is not the only field where they are developing their own standard. And they themselves have two competing technologies for dvd! It is kind of weird when standards are not so "standard", isn't it? - -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFEHp5EtTMYHG2NR9URAgTIAJ9Cb0vTUQbk8loNt7Rbk3v+yVErnACbBD+4 nogPIYdVKzJcgxBfIayFteo= =BK+I -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Sun, 2006-03-19 at 15:28 +0000, Kevanf1 wrote:

...

I understand that there are already at least two different versions of HDTV. I have even seen them for sale over here in the UK. Yet HDTV has not even started to be broadcast :-O

This complexity is already being played out (yet again) with the two differing versions of the new generation of DVD. We have Blu Ray and HD DVD. So, the manufacturers will indeed try different standards and hope that theirs wins out. In the meantime, we, the customer, lose out.

VHS vs Beta the latter some said was better but a looser in the end. Once again I am sorry for what my government is doing to the industry. -- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/

On 25/03/06, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Carl William Spitzer IV [03-25-06 12:57]:

...

VHS vs Beta the latter some said was better but a looser in the end. Once again I am sorry for what my government is doing to the industry.

Perhaps you should move to a country where you appreciate the "government".

You don't even know what you are inferring. The *government* did not choose or dictate which standard would prevail, the marketplace did.

Co-erced by industry which was being led by governmental influence. It's all to do with money at the end of the day. How much a company - or, more likely, a cartel - will throw at a product in order for it to become the leading item. -- ============================================== I am only human, please forgive me if I make a mistake it is not deliberate. ============================================== Xmas may be over but, PLEASE DON'T drink and drive you'll make it to the next one that way. Kevan Farmer Linux user #373362 Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On Sunday 19 March 2006 10:19, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Sunday 19 March 2006 16:16, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

We were talking about HD TV, or digital TV, that doesn't have a global standard (DVD does, for the moment). The idea proposed was that it was to stop us (european) from buying tv sets and such from the us, which being a bigger market might be cheaper - even if our equipment is also made somewhere else.

So you mean the tech companies would voluntarily make their production process more complex and expensive by having to have multiple production lines for different markets, just so they can charge $20 extra from European customers?

Doesn't seem very likely

Besides which, I was under the impression that HDTV would be a true global standard

TVs seem to be pretty close to a global standard now. I've spent some time looking at this awhile back. Without much effort I was able to find FTA satellite receivers that outputted either PAL or NSTC. Nothing really stopping a person from bringing a TV set over from North America and getting a FTA receiver that will work just fine. Ignoring the need to deal with the TVs voltage issues. No you can't just put up an OTA antenna and be done with it or get something like a sky box. But if you're looking at satellite that runs on the various FTA boxes it should work. Also various European market TVs seem to take NSTC on their RCA connectors. People just have to pay attention to what they buy. Plus remember things like Scart versus North American cables. I also get the impression that equal quality stuff costs about the same in both market. Nick

Maybe I was being a little too wide with my price differences? I was using the knowledge I have that laptop/notebook PCs and larger desktops etc are indeed quite a lot cheaper in the US than they are here in the UK. I had assumed (I know, it doesn't do to assume anything) that there would be a similar price difference for the same equipment with tv sets.

Is there not then?

Everything will be much dearer in the UK with the gov charging 3 different taxes on everything. Business Tax, Employment tax and VAT all are much higher than almost anywhere else in the world.

On Sunday 19 March 2006 10:47, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Sunday 19 March 2006 16:22, Kevanf1 wrote:

...

Maybe I was being a little too wide with my price differences? I was using the knowledge I have that laptop/notebook PCs and larger desktops etc are indeed quite a lot cheaper in the US than they are here in the UK. I had assumed (I know, it doesn't do to assume anything) that there would be a similar price difference for the same equipment with tv sets.

Looking at Dell's prices, in the UK the Dell M20 sells for 1020 pounds. Excluding VAT that's 868 including shipping.

In Sweden the M20 sells for 1152 British pounds (by today's exchange rate). Excluding VAT, that's 921. The difference of 53 pounds could be partly cheaper freight in the UK, and partly differences in the exchange rates on the day.

In the US, the M20 sells for $1373, which by today's exchange rate is 781 pounds. They don't mention if that includes sales tax (I doubt it) or shipping (says 'with select desktops'), but it's still quite a difference compared to the European prices. I don't know what makes up for this difference, but it's all the same model, so different standards can reasonably not have anything to do with it.

Did you check if the boxes are fitted out equally? Easy enough to fit one with less/more memory. Bigger HD. Nick

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:47:30 +0100, Anders Johansson wrote:

They don't mention if that includes sales tax (I doubt it) or shipping (says 'with select desktops')

As sales taxes differ from state to state, prices in the US are always without taxes. And shipping is also normally not included. Philipp