Re: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

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samelash＠ix.netcom.com

8 Aug 2000 8 Aug '00

08:11

At 04:06 PM 8/6/2000 +0200, Pep Serrano wrote:

...

Lenz,

On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:18:02 +0200 (CEST), Lenz Grimmer wrote:

...
The DVD contains some more commercial packages that simply did not fit on the 6 CDs.

...

Does the CD include as well the whole 6 CDs? I feel usual that the users with DVD not only want some extra comercial

Hmmm, It seems like a ploy to hit custoemrs for more money. They just raised the price for what is basicly the same as 6.4 to make a deluxe package , and then trimmed it down to create a standard one at a cheaper price with only three cds. I was more than willing to spring $29.99 for each new incremental version and heve been since 5.3 I will not be able to continue this pattern at $59.99 (www.chumbo.com) a pop. On top of that I still dont have a dvd either.It looks like I may just wait and see how stable 7.0 and may even wait for 7.1. packages, any DVD user would desire to avoid a 6CD installation.

...

Regards,

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dtrotzjr＠inreach.com

8 Aug 8 Aug

15:07

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

Mike Cleary Wrote....

...

Whoa! I figured it would be a bit more expensive this time around... But not double the cost (even at Chumbo no less...). I doesn't seem to me you're getting that much more (i.e. more than in 6.4) for the extra cost.

And Samy Elashmawy wrote....

...

I was more than willing to spring $29.99 for each new incremental version and heve been since 5.3 I will not be able to continue this pattern at $59.99 (www.chumbo.com) a pop. On top of that I still dont have a dvd either.It looks like I may just wait and see how stable 7.0 and may even wait for 7.1.

What are you guys talking about? SuSE Linux 6.4 was retailed at $49.99 (of which I got for $19.99 at CompUSA, and everywhere else is $29.99) And SuSE Linux 7.0 Professional is retailed at $59.99 a whole ten dollars more. Not double as Mike is stating. So you can expect that 7.0 will sell at places like CompUSA for no more than $40.00. It could be more but SuSE did not double their prices, so if you pay double it is because you got a really great deal in the first place. Can't you guys stop whining about cost and realize things change. There is nothing in the manual that says you have to upgrade everytime a new version comes out, in fact I myself am waiting until 7.1 is released because I just got 6.4 and I am very happy with it. You are right there isn't much more in 7.0 than there was in 6.4, so wait for 7.1 and the jump will be better. Else if you do buy every release of SuSE linux your cost will be more than the cost of NT is between releases and that seems a bit defeating in itself. -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

samelash＠ix.netcom.com

12:48

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

At 08:07 AM 8/8/2000 -0700, David Trotz wrote:

...

Mike Cleary Wrote....

...
Whoa! I figured it would be a bit more expensive this time around... But not double the cost (even at Chumbo no less...). I doesn't seem to me you're getting that much more (i.e. more than in 6.4) for the extra cost.

And Samy Elashmawy wrote....

...
I was more than willing to spring $29.99 for each new incremental version and heve been since 5.3 I will not be able to continue this pattern at $59.99 (www.chumbo.com) a pop. On top of that I still dont have a dvd either.It looks like I may just wait and see how stable 7.0 and may even wait for 7.1.

...

What are you guys talking about? SuSE Linux 6.4 was retailed at $49.99 (of which I got for $19.99 at CompUSA, and everywhere else is $29.99) And SuSE Linux 7.0 Professional is retailed at $59.99 a whole ten dollars more. Not double as Mike is stating.

7.0 Deluxe at 59.99 from www.chumbo.com for what is basicly similar to the full edition of 6.4 only it now comes with a dvd rom. 7.0 personaql which is some whate striped down with only 3 cds for 29.99 from www.chumbo.com Thats theSAME PRICE PAID FOR A FULL 6 CD SET WITH MANUAL FOR 6.4 SO that means your NOW Getting LESS fo the same $29.99 OR pay more to get what is closer to the previos product. Peviosly I was picking up the complete cd set as for 29.99 it was not an isssue for me. But at 59.99 for each releas then it becomes an issue to me. Stabilility , cost and suport are what drove me to suse linux. At the time I jumped to linux , suse was the only vender to offer phone suport. That is no longer so. this list is VERY good for suport. so that is no longer an issue ,as I have learned more on this list that I ever thought I wood. So that brings me to stabilty and product features. Limnix is stable especialy compared to windows. As for product , I have been fathfull to suse since jumping on to it at 5.3. However other distros are ver busy catching up to suse coat tials . Look at mandrake and some of the other install tools. there not yast , and yast has not caought up. I most lse yast for admin now. Yast 2 still has some work to be done and is not quit up to task. But it is improving. Now that leaves package selection. so far Suse has been king of the jungle here. There was another disto cliaming somethinclose to the same number of apps as suse , but its a new one and an untested distro. Any way If you realy want a package you can download it but its easer to just slap a cd into the drive and install it , even if is a few versions old. If you like it thehn you can go for the newer one and down load it. So you can expect that 7.0 will sell at places

...

like CompUSA for no more than $40.00. It could be more but SuSE did not double their prices, so if you pay double it is because you got a really great deal in the first place. Can't you guys stop whining about cost and realize things change. There is nothing in the manual that says you have to upgrade everytime a new version comes out, in fact I myself am waiting until 7.1 is released because I just got 6.4 and I am very happy with it. You are right there isn't much more in 7.0 than there was in 6.4, so wait for 7.1 and the jump will be better. Else if you do buy every release of SuSE linux your cost will be more than the cost of NT is between releases and that seems a bit defeating in itself.

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com

...

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brosenb＠suse.com

18:26

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

You can buy the Upgrade version which comes with the 6 CD's and the DVD for a cheaper price...but it doesn't come with a book of close to the same info that your 6.4 book had. I would suggest this route. * Samy Elashmawy (samelash@ix.netcom.com) [000808 18:21]: -->At 08:07 AM 8/8/2000 -0700, David Trotz wrote: -->>Mike Cleary Wrote.... -->>> Whoa! I figured it would be a bit more expensive this time around... -->>> But not double the cost (even at Chumbo no less...). I doesn't seem to -->>> me you're getting that much more (i.e. more than in 6.4) for the extra -->>> cost. -->> -->>And Samy Elashmawy wrote.... -->>> I was more than willing to spring $29.99 for each new incremental version -->>> and heve been since 5.3 -->>> I will not be able to continue this pattern at $59.99 (www.chumbo.com) a -->>> pop. On top of that I still dont have a dvd either.It looks like I may -->>just -->>> wait and see how stable 7.0 and may even wait for 7.1. --> -->>What are you guys talking about? SuSE Linux 6.4 was retailed at $49.99 (of -->>which I got for $19.99 at CompUSA, and everywhere else is $29.99) And SuSE -->>Linux 7.0 Professional is retailed at $59.99 a whole ten dollars more. Not -->>double as Mike is stating. --> -->7.0 Deluxe at 59.99 from www.chumbo.com for what is basicly similar to the -->full edition of 6.4 only it now comes with a dvd rom. --> -->7.0 personaql which is some whate striped down with only 3 cds for 29.99 -->from www.chumbo.com -->Thats theSAME PRICE PAID FOR A FULL 6 CD SET WITH MANUAL FOR 6.4 --> -->SO that means your NOW Getting LESS fo the same $29.99 -->OR pay more to get what is closer to the previos product. --> --> -->Peviosly I was picking up the complete cd set as for 29.99 it was not an -->isssue for me. But at 59.99 for each releas then it becomes an issue to me. -->Stabilility , cost and suport are what drove me to suse linux. At the time -->I jumped to linux , suse was the only vender to offer phone suport. That is -->no longer so. this list is VERY good for suport. so that is no longer an -->issue ,as I have learned more on this list that I ever thought I wood. So -->that brings me to stabilty and product features. Limnix is stable especialy -->compared to windows. --> -->As for product , I have been fathfull to suse since jumping on to it at -->5.3. However other distros are ver busy catching up to suse coat tials . -->Look at mandrake and some of the other install tools. there not yast , and -->yast has not caought up. I most lse yast for admin now. Yast 2 still has -->some work to be done and is not quit up to task. But it is improving. Now -->that leaves package selection. so far Suse has been king of the jungle -->here. There was another disto cliaming somethinclose to the same number of -->apps as suse , but its a new one and an untested distro. Any way If you -->realy want a package you can download it but its easer to just slap a cd -->into the drive and install it , even if is a few versions old. If you like -->it thehn you can go for the newer one and down load it. --> --> --> --> --> --> --> --> So you can expect that 7.0 will sell at places -->>like CompUSA for no more than $40.00. It could be more but SuSE did not -->>double their prices, so if you pay double it is because you got a really -->>great deal in the first place. Can't you guys stop whining about cost and -->>realize things change. There is nothing in the manual that says you have to -->>upgrade everytime a new version comes out, in fact I myself am waiting until -->>7.1 is released because I just got 6.4 and I am very happy with it. You are -->>right there isn't much more in 7.0 than there was in 6.4, so wait for 7.1 -->>and the jump will be better. Else if you do buy every release of SuSE linux -->>your cost will be more than the cost of NT is between releases and that -->>seems a bit defeating in itself. -->> -->> -->>-- -->>To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com -->>For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com --> -->>Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq -->> -->> --> -->-- -->To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com -->For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com -->Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq -- Cheers, Ben Rosenberg Precision LINUX :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: SuSE Inc. Tel: +1-510-628-3380 ext:5086 580 Second St Suite 210 Fax: +1-510-835-3381 Suite 210 mailto:brosenb@suse.com Oakland CA 94607 U.S.A http://www.suse.com :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

mha＠suse.com

22:36

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

Ben Rosenberg wrote:

...

You can buy the Upgrade version which comes with the 6 CD's and the DVD for a cheaper price...but it doesn't come with a book of close to the same info that your 6.4 book had. I would suggest this route.

You get the book as .ps and .pdf. Again, again, again: no one needs to pay more now. If you already have SuSE Linux now, just get the Update Edition, which IS the Professional Edition, just without printed manuals and less support. If you decide you DO want the Prof. Edition anyway, then the price increase IS justified, since you get more manuals and more support. So, everyone should be happy! -- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

tb64710＠ltec.net

9 Aug 9 Aug

01:05

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

On Tue, 08 Aug 2000, Michael Hasenstein wrote:

...

Ben Rosenberg wrote:

...
You can buy the Upgrade version which comes with the 6 CD's and the DVD for a cheaper price...but it doesn't come with a book of close to the same info that your 6.4 book had. I would suggest this route.

You get the book as .ps and .pdf.

Again, again, again: no one needs to pay more now. If you already have SuSE Linux now, just get the Update Edition, which IS the Professional Edition, just without printed manuals and less support.

If you decide you DO want the Prof. Edition anyway, then the price increase IS justified, since you get more manuals and more support.

So, everyone should be happy!

-- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US)

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

-- I'm happy ;-) Every penny I've spent on SuSE products has made me happy. Now, if I could just recoup what I've spent on other distros, I'd be ecstatic! Oh well.......education always has its price. TRBishop tb64710@ltec.net Registered Linux User #12043 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

samelash＠ix.netcom.com

17:15

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

At 03:36 PM 8/8/2000 -0700, Michael Hasenstein wrote:

...

Ben Rosenberg wrote:

...
You can buy the Upgrade version which comes with the 6 CD's and the DVD for a cheaper price...but it doesn't come with a book of close to the same info that your 6.4 book had. I would suggest this route.

You get the book as .ps and .pdf.

Now is that one book or all four books as whats in the deluxe version ? I would hope that it has all four. GREATTTTT That does make me happy , especialy if its avialable from retial/mailorder/online distros , unless suse has made inroads in there "fufullment" services which were very slow. I was under the impression it was more cost efective to just have the distro/retialers take care of it as oposed to doing it in house.

...

Again, again, again: no one needs to pay more now. If you already have SuSE Linux now, just get the Update Edition, which IS the Professional Edition, just without printed manuals and less support.

If you decide you DO want the Prof. Edition anyway, then the price increase IS justified, since you get more manuals and more support.

So, everyone should be happy!

-- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US)

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com

...

Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

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vcardona＠home.com

8 Aug 8 Aug

19:15

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

On Tue, Aug 08, 2000 at 12:48:55PM +0000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:

...

As for product , I have been fathfull to suse since jumping on to it at 5.3. However other distros are ver busy catching up to suse coat tials . Look at mandrake and some of the other install tools. there not yast , and yast has not caought up. I most lse yast for admin now. Yast 2 still has some work to be done and is not quit up to task. But it is improving. Now that leaves package selection. so far Suse has been king of the jungle here. There was another disto cliaming somethinclose to the same number of apps as suse , but its a new one and an untested distro. Any way If you realy want a package you can download it but its easer to just slap a cd into the drive and install it , even if is a few versions old. If you like it thehn you can go for the newer one and down load it.

If cost and package selection are your only concerns at this point then you might try looking at Debian. They have over 2000 packages available, and they are neither new nor untested. Victor -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

samelash＠ix.netcom.com

9 Aug 9 Aug

17:08

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

At 02:15 PM 8/8/2000 -0500, Victor R. Cardona wrote:

...

On Tue, Aug 08, 2000 at 12:48:55PM +0000, Samy Elashmawy wrote:

...
As for product , I have been fathfull to suse since jumping on to it at 5.3. However other distros are ver busy catching up to suse coat tials . Look at mandrake and some of the other install tools. there not yast , and yast has not caought up. I most lse yast for admin now. Yast 2 still has some work to be done and is not quit up to task. But it is improving. Now that leaves package selection. so far Suse has been king of the jungle here. There was another disto cliaming somethinclose to the same number of apps as suse , but its a new one and an untested distro. Any way If you realy want a package you can download it but its easer to just slap a cd into the drive and install it , even if is a few versions old. If you like it thehn you can go for the newer one and down load it.

If cost and package selection are your only concerns at this point then you might try looking at Debian. They have over 2000 packages available, and they are neither new nor untested.

Hmmm, Something to look into ? I was not too clear , or maybbee jumping up and down too quick. I wont jump ship that quick. But I will not upgrade at each release if its going to cost me 59.00 per upgrade. The deciding facter is do I realy need the new upgrade and is whats new on it worth whats being asked for. At 29.00 I was upgrading on each release. But now I will think it over some more. What is upsetting is the trend of asking for more in terms of pricing and the way that the product price was increased and then a svcaled down version made avialable for the comparable price of the previose version ie 6.4 full edtion was selling for 29.99. I dont think that the 4 maniuals justify a two fold increse in price , nor am (I hapy at being given a three cdrom disk set as oposed to what was previosly a 6 cd set. NOTE that I have been told thaat there is an upgrade addition for those of us who do like to upgrade on each release that comes with out the books. I WOULD hope that the docs are on the cd/dvd media and that it will be closer to the 29.99 price fo the older product. So right now it mnore of a lets wait and see what actualy comes down the pipeline kind of mode.

...

Victor

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...

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donh＠halenet.com.au

11 Aug 11 Aug

16:19

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

...

Thats theSAME PRICE PAID FOR A FULL 6 CD SET WITH MANUAL FOR 6.4

SO that means your NOW Getting LESS fo the same $29.99 OR pay more to get what is closer to the previos product.

Dunno what country you people come from, but we have this thing called "Inflation". Basically it means that, as time goes by, costs get higher. Personally, if SuSE was double it's current price, I'd pay that, too. Want some reasons? (1) The amount of time and effort they put into setting up the distro is worth the bucks to me. (2) SuSE puts a hell of a lot back into Open Source development. To me that is worth more than the actual CDs. (3) You said words to the effect that it would cost as much to keep up with SuSE, as it would to buy NT. If you add to NT's price the 'extras' you get with SuSE, you would see a real bargain; for example; MSOffice (StarOffice), Visual Studio (Python, Perl, C/C++ compilers, Java, PHP etc), IIS/BackOffice (Apache), the list could go on ......in short, if you set up a MS system with comparable apps that come with SuSE, you would be well into thousands of dollars, not to mention the hard drive space and resources those apps would take up under NT. And, by the way, on this list (at least), there is no need to SHOUT! :-) -- This Email is 100% Virus Free! How do I know? Because no Microsoft products were used to generate it! Regards Don Hansford ECKYTECH COMPUTING SuSE Linux 6.4 -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

herman＠knief.net

16:22

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

I agree with Don. For all those people who are whining, all I can say is this... go compare the SuSE Professional Version (as it will now be known) to the equivalent RedHat Distro. One, I think you'll find it even more expensive and two, it's still the same poorly engineer RedHat distro - it just has a few more packages, that users of SuSE just take for granted. Even at double the price, SuSE is a pretty good deal. - Herman On Sat, 12 Aug 2000, Don Hansford wrote: ->> ->>> Thats theSAME PRICE PAID FOR A FULL 6 CD SET WITH MANUAL FOR 6.4 ->>> ->>> SO that means your NOW Getting LESS fo the same $29.99 ->>> OR pay more to get what is closer to the previos product. ->> ->>Dunno what country you people come from, but we have this thing called ->>"Inflation". Basically it means that, as time goes by, costs get higher. ->>Personally, if SuSE was double it's current price, I'd pay that, too. ->>Want some reasons? (1) The amount of time and effort they put into ->>setting up the distro is worth the bucks to me. (2) SuSE puts a hell of ->>a lot back into Open Source development. To me that is worth more than ->>the actual CDs. (3) You said words to the effect that it would cost as ->>much to keep up with SuSE, as it would to buy NT. If you add to NT's ->>price the 'extras' you get with SuSE, you would see a real bargain; for ->>example; MSOffice (StarOffice), Visual Studio (Python, Perl, C/C++ ->>compilers, Java, PHP etc), IIS/BackOffice (Apache), the list could go on ->>......in short, if you set up a MS system with comparable apps that come ->>with SuSE, you would be well into thousands of dollars, not to mention ->>the hard drive space and resources those apps would take up under NT. ->> ->>And, by the way, on this list (at least), there is no need to SHOUT! :-) ->>-- ->> ->>This Email is 100% Virus Free! ->>How do I know? Because no Microsoft ->>products were used to generate it! ->> ->>Regards Don Hansford ->>ECKYTECH COMPUTING ->>SuSE Linux 6.4 ->> ->>-- ->>To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com ->>For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com ->>Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq ->> -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

fwilde＠chethams.org.uk

16:30

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe - why's everyone so cross?

Hi all, Just to add to my voice to Don and Herman's comments, and say that SuSE strike me as doing a great job and making a phenomenal amount of good stuff available at a remarkably cheap price. Can't say the version number thing bothers me much, nor can I see what's wrong with taking SuSE's various spokesmen at their word when they say they had hoped to get 2.4 and KDE2 in, but weren't able to in the end - there seems to be an air of disbelief about this (to my mind at least) perfectly convincing explanation in some posts which comes close to impoliteness. I've just been on a Sun course on Solaris - haven't got a bad word to say about the course or the Sun product, but the comparison with SuSE certainly makes a boxed set of the SuSE product look like the incredible value it really is. And they're not making everyone buy a new box each time it comes out, are they? They also make all source available free over the web no questions asked, let's not forget what a brilliant service that really is. So if you're prepared to do all the work, you can get whatever they produce without parting with a penny - this really is a free lunch. As far as I can see, they're just making a bit of extra choice for the new punter to decide not to buy a lot of stuff he/she won't understand, while handing out a useful extra DVD in the full set. It's not like windows, where you're going to get left behind if you don't buy the latest - you don't need disks with Xfree 4.0 or whatever, wait till the 2.4 kernel and KDE2 are out and de-bugged, then get 7.whatever when you're ready. Hats off to the whole SuSE crew, Thanks all, Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB UK Tel: +44 (0)161 834 7961 Fax: +44 (0)161 839 5797 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Herman Knief" To: "Don Hansford" Cc: Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

...

I agree with Don. For all those people who are whining, all I can say is this... go compare the SuSE Professional Version (as it will now be known) to the equivalent RedHat Distro. One, I think you'll find it even more expensive and two, it's still the same poorly engineer RedHat distro - it just has a few more packages, that users of SuSE just take for granted.

Even at double the price, SuSE is a pretty good deal.

- Herman

On Sat, 12 Aug 2000, Don Hansford wrote:

->> ->>> Thats theSAME PRICE PAID FOR A FULL 6 CD SET WITH MANUAL FOR 6.4 ->>> ->>> SO that means your NOW Getting LESS fo the same $29.99 ->>> OR pay more to get what is closer to the previos product. ->> ->>Dunno what country you people come from, but we have this thing called ->>"Inflation". Basically it means that, as time goes by, costs get higher. ->>Personally, if SuSE was double it's current price, I'd pay that, too. ->>Want some reasons? (1) The amount of time and effort they put into ->>setting up the distro is worth the bucks to me. (2) SuSE puts a hell of ->>a lot back into Open Source development. To me that is worth more than ->>the actual CDs. (3) You said words to the effect that it would cost as ->>much to keep up with SuSE, as it would to buy NT. If you add to NT's ->>price the 'extras' you get with SuSE, you would see a real bargain; for ->>example; MSOffice (StarOffice), Visual Studio (Python, Perl, C/C++ ->>compilers, Java, PHP etc), IIS/BackOffice (Apache), the list could go on ->>......in short, if you set up a MS system with comparable apps that come ->>with SuSE, you would be well into thousands of dollars, not to mention ->>the hard drive space and resources those apps would take up under NT. ->> ->>And, by the way, on this list (at least), there is no need to SHOUT! :-) ->>-- ->> ->>This Email is 100% Virus Free! ->>How do I know? Because no Microsoft ->>products were used to generate it! ->> ->>Regards Don Hansford ->>ECKYTECH COMPUTING ->>SuSE Linux 6.4 ->> ->>-- ->>To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com ->>For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com ->>Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq ->>

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

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stenhoj＠adr.dk

14 Aug 14 Aug

15:56

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe - why's everyone so cross?

I've taken the time to check out what the new 7 DeLuxe contains. It seems to contain general tools for setting up local networks, XDLS lines and much more. To me it looks as if SuSE is the real sprinter in the OS and Server business. Since a friend introduced me to SuSE in January (6.3) things have gone much faster than I had ever imagined. If another OS provider had worked the same way, widoze had been available in 1990. I expect to get a very professional batch of tools from 7.0 DeLuxe. This version even provides you with a DVD. What does a random DVD cost in the local super market? Aren't we getting a little bit too petty, when critizising the new release? I have my birthday this month. My guest will surely give me the right birtheday present. They are are not in doubt about my inner feelings: 7.0 DeLuxe. You are not right when assuming that you are left behind regarding a certain other OS if you don't get the latest. W98 1st version was the last known good W for general consumers and NT 4 SP4 was the last known good NT. I don't want to comment on the exact successors. In general I would say that if you are deprived the right and/or the possibility of deciding what to install or remove in any way, it's time for a new start. Fergus Wilde wrote:

...

Hi all,

Just to add to my voice to Don and Herman's comments, and say that SuSE strike me as doing a great job and making a phenomenal amount of good stuff available at a remarkably cheap price. Can't say the version number thing bothers me much, nor can I see what's wrong with taking SuSE's various spokesmen at their word when they say they had hoped to get 2.4 and KDE2 in, but weren't able to in the end - there seems to be an air of disbelief about this (to my mind at least) perfectly convincing explanation in some posts which comes close to impoliteness.

I've just been on a Sun course on Solaris - haven't got a bad word to say about the course or the Sun product, but the comparison with SuSE certainly makes a boxed set of the SuSE product look like the incredible value it really is. And they're not making everyone buy a new box each time it comes out, are they? They also make all source available free over the web no questions asked, let's not forget what a brilliant service that really is. So if you're prepared to do all the work, you can get whatever they produce without parting with a penny - this really is a free lunch. As far as I can see, they're just making a bit of extra choice for the new punter to decide not to buy a lot of stuff he/she won't understand, while handing out a useful extra DVD in the full set. It's not like windows, where you're going to get left behind if you don't buy the latest - you don't need disks with Xfree 4.0 or whatever, wait till the 2.4 kernel and KDE2 are out and de-bugged, then get 7.whatever when you're ready.

Hats off to the whole SuSE crew,

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

tbutler＠uninetsolutions.com

23:36

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe - why's everyone so cross?

...

So if you're prepared to do all the work, you can get whatever they produce without parting with a penny - this really is a free lunch. As far as I can see, they're just making a bit of extra choice for the new punter to decide not to buy a lot of stuff he/she won't understand, while handing out a useful extra DVD in the full set. It's not like windows, where you're going

I see your point. The only thing I don't like is the fact that in one upgrade the price jumped $20-$40 (I've heard different stories as to what the price will end up) over what we are currently paying. Certainly, SuSE puts $60 of work into SuSE Linux, but then again if all was fine at $29 ($49 MSRP) for SuSE Linux 6.4, I can't believe the employee cost went up $20xevery_copy_sold in one release. It would be better, IMO, if it grew with inflation, if nothing else. However, I admit, until I get broadband, I will continue to buy SuSE even at a higher price. The main thing I see with this, is, John Q. Public will go into CompUSA looking for Linux. He'll have heard about RedHat (since that's what the press always talks about), and he'll already have a bias towards it. Say he decides he never liked the "cheap" version of his Windows software, so he goes starts looking at professional versions. Here we have RedHat and SuSE Pro versions selling for $50-$80, and he probably doesn't know how much better SuSE is. What is he going to buy? He's going to buy RedHat. Now, imagine right now, the same guy walking in. He knows RedHat, but here is a "full" (not "Personal") version of another Linux (SuSE) - and it's only 20 bucks! "Hey", he'll say, "I know I know RedHat, but I wouldn't mind saving 50 bucks." Another SuSE customer sold. I don't see this happening under the new pricing system. I dunno, but I think people are probably prone to going to the best version they can afford. As a rule of thumb, a company with less name recognition should charge less than one with more (whether or not their product is better). Just my two cents... -Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================

...

to get left behind if you don't buy the latest - you don't need disks with Xfree 4.0 or whatever, wait till the 2.4 kernel and KDE2 are out and de-bugged, then get 7.whatever when you're ready.

Hats off to the whole SuSE crew, Thanks all,

Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB UK

Tel: +44 (0)161 834 7961 Fax: +44 (0)161 839 5797

----- Original Message ----- From: "Herman Knief" To: "Don Hansford" Cc: Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

...
I agree with Don. For all those people who are whining, all I can say is this... go compare the SuSE Professional Version (as it will now be known) to the equivalent RedHat Distro. One, I think you'll find it even more expensive and two, it's still the same poorly engineer RedHat distro - it just has a few more packages, that users of SuSE just take for granted.

Even at double the price, SuSE is a pretty good deal.

- Herman

On Sat, 12 Aug 2000, Don Hansford wrote:

->> ->>> Thats theSAME PRICE PAID FOR A FULL 6 CD SET WITH MANUAL FOR 6.4 ->>> ->>> SO that means your NOW Getting LESS fo the same $29.99 ->>> OR pay more to get what is closer to the previos product. ->> ->>Dunno what country you people come from, but we have this thing called ->>"Inflation". Basically it means that, as time goes by, costs get higher. ->>Personally, if SuSE was double it's current price, I'd pay that, too. ->>Want some reasons? (1) The amount of time and effort they put into ->>setting up the distro is worth the bucks to me. (2) SuSE puts a hell of ->>a lot back into Open Source development. To me that is worth more than ->>the actual CDs. (3) You said words to the effect that it would cost as ->>much to keep up with SuSE, as it would to buy NT. If you add to NT's ->>price the 'extras' you get with SuSE, you would see a real bargain; for ->>example; MSOffice (StarOffice), Visual Studio (Python, Perl, C/C++ ->>compilers, Java, PHP etc), IIS/BackOffice (Apache), the list could go on ->>......in short, if you set up a MS system with comparable apps that come ->>with SuSE, you would be well into thousands of dollars, not to mention ->>the hard drive space and resources those apps would take up under NT. ->> ->>And, by the way, on this list (at least), there is no need to SHOUT! :-) ->>-- ->> ->>This Email is 100% Virus Free! ->>How do I know? Because no Microsoft ->>products were used to generate it! ->> ->>Regards Don Hansford ->>ECKYTECH COMPUTING ->>SuSE Linux 6.4 ->> ->>-- ->>To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com ->>For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com ->>Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq ->>

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mha＠suse.com

8 Aug 8 Aug

16:36

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

Samy Elashmawy wrote:

...

At 04:06 PM 8/6/2000 +0200, Pep Serrano wrote:

...
Lenz,

On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:18:02 +0200 (CEST), Lenz Grimmer wrote:

...
The DVD contains some more commercial packages that simply did not fit on the 6 CDs.

Hmmm, It seems like a ploy to hit custoemrs for more money. They just raised the price for what is basicly the same as 6.4 to make a deluxe package , and then trimmed it down to create a standard one at a cheaper price with only three cds.

WRONG. The prof. edition will have much more support and 4 instead of just one manual. Those who don't need either one can get the update edition, which gives you more (now the 6 CDs and the DVD edition together) at about the same price as before. Unfrotunately we don't have the update edition mentioned anywhere on www.suse.com right now... it was introduced for just that purpose: to not raise the price for long-term customers.

...

I was more than willing to spring $29.99 for each new incremental version and heve been since 5.3 I will not be able to continue this pattern at $59.99 (www.chumbo.com) a

You don't need to unless you want the manuals. In this case you have to pay that much, and I don't see why not.

...

pop. On top of that I still dont have a dvd either.It looks like I may just wait and see how stable 7.0 and may even wait for 7.1.

??? The DVD is now always included with the Professional and the Update Edition. Makes no sense to distribute is as a separate edition, we found out. People who have a DVD still want the CDs, because they might want to install on a computer whithout DVD at some time.

...

...
Does the CD include as well the whole 6 CDs? I feel usual that the users with DVD not only want some extra comercial packages, any DVD user would desire to avoid a 6CD installation.

-- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

samelash＠ix.netcom.com

13:05

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

At 09:36 AM 8/8/2000 -0700, Michael Hasenstein wrote:

...

Samy Elashmawy wrote:

...
At 04:06 PM 8/6/2000 +0200, Pep Serrano wrote:

...
Lenz,

On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:18:02 +0200 (CEST), Lenz Grimmer wrote:

...
The DVD contains some more commercial packages that simply did not fit on the 6 CDs.

Hmmm, It seems like a ploy to hit custoemrs for more money. They just raised the price for what is basicly the same as 6.4 to make a deluxe package , and then trimmed it down to create a standard one at a cheaper price with only three cds.

Thanks for the editional info , especialy for the unknown upgrade edtion. The manuals do come in handy. Are they also on disk with the version that has no manuals ? That way you can at least print out a few pages when needed ?

...

WRONG. The prof. edition will have much more support and 4 instead of just one manual. Those who don't need either one can get the update edition, which gives you more (now the 6 CDs and the DVD edition together) at about the same price as before. Unfrotunately we don't have the update edition mentioned anywhere on www.suse.com right now... it was introduced for just that purpose: to not raise the price for long-term customers.

...
I was more than willing to spring $29.99 for each new incremental version and heve been since 5.3 I will not be able to continue this pattern at $59.99 (www.chumbo.com) a

You don't need to unless you want the manuals. In this case you have to pay that much, and I don't see why not.

Are they on disk if not in the package ?

...

...
pop. On top of that I still dont have a dvd either.It looks like I may just wait and see how stable 7.0 and may even wait for 7.1.

??? The DVD is now always included with the Professional and the Update Edition. Makes no sense to distribute is as a separate edition, we found out. People who have a DVD still want the CDs, because they might want to install on a computer whithout DVD at some time.

...
...
Does the CD include as well the whole 6 CDs? I feel usual that the users with DVD not only want some extra comercial packages, any DVD user would desire to avoid a 6CD installation.

-- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US)

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

mha＠suse.com

18:59

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

Samy Elashmawy wrote:

...

...
...
Hmmm, It seems like a ploy to hit customers for more money. They just raised the price for what is basicly the same as 6.4 to make a deluxe package , and then trimmed it down to create a standard one at a cheaper price with only three cds.

WRONG. The prof. edition will have much more support and 4 instead of just one manual. Those who don't need either one can get the update edition, which gives you more (now the 6 CDs and the DVD edition together) at about the same price as before. Unfrotunately we don't have the update edition mentioned anywhere on www.suse.com right now... it was introduced for just that purpose: to not raise the price for long-term customers.

Thanks for the editional info, especialy for the unknown upgrade edtion. The manuals do come in handy. Are they also on disk with the version that has no manuals ? That way you can at least print out a few pages when needed ?

I don't know, I've nothing to do with product development, the company is getting too big to know everything or even everyone... the main manual will be available as postscript and pdf, that much I know. It looks a lot different and more organized now. It's 599 pages for the English version. -- Michael Hasenstein http;//www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

tbutler＠uninetsolutions.com

9 Aug 9 Aug

03:03

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

Hi Michael, I'm curious, what is the MSRP for the update version and the full pro versions? I'm curious how much it will retail at CompUSA or Best Buy which currently sell the $49 SuSE 6.4 for $20-$30. I really like the new DVD and CD combination idea, if nothing else, you could give someone else the CD-ROM copy to get them started with Linux... BTW, Michael Smith said he heard that SuSE 7.0 might include a VMWare license - is there any official word on this yet (I wasn't sure from what he wrote if he meant he heard a rumor or if it was confirmed)? Thanks, Tim ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ===================== "Solutions that Work" =====================

...

-----Original Message----- From: mha@suse.com [mailto:mha@suse.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 11:36 AM To: Samy Elashmawy Cc: Pep Serrano; suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

Samy Elashmawy wrote:

...
At 04:06 PM 8/6/2000 +0200, Pep Serrano wrote:

...
Lenz,

On Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:18:02 +0200 (CEST), Lenz Grimmer wrote:

...
The DVD contains some more commercial packages that simply did not fit on the 6 CDs.

Hmmm, It seems like a ploy to hit custoemrs for more money. They just raised the price for what is basicly the same as 6.4 to make a deluxe package , and then trimmed it down to create a standard one at a cheaper price with only three cds.

WRONG. The prof. edition will have much more support and 4 instead of just one manual. Those who don't need either one can get the update edition, which gives you more (now the 6 CDs and the DVD edition together) at about the same price as before. Unfrotunately we don't have the update edition mentioned anywhere on www.suse.com right now... it was introduced for just that purpose: to not raise the price for long-term customers.

...
I was more than willing to spring $29.99 for each new incremental version and heve been since 5.3 I will not be able to continue this pattern at $59.99 (www.chumbo.com) a

You don't need to unless you want the manuals. In this case you have to pay that much, and I don't see why not.

...
pop. On top of that I still dont have a dvd either.It looks like I may just wait and see how stable 7.0 and may even wait for 7.1.

??? The DVD is now always included with the Professional and the Update Edition. Makes no sense to distribute is as a separate edition, we found out. People who have a DVD still want the CDs, because they might want to install on a computer whithout DVD at some time.

...
...
Does the CD include as well the whole 6 CDs? I feel usual that the users with DVD not only want some extra comercial packages, any DVD user would desire to avoid a 6CD installation.

-- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US)

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

mha＠suse.com

04:50

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

"Timothy R. Butler" wrote:

...

Hi Michael, I'm curious, what is the MSRP for the update version and the full pro versions?

$69.95 for the Prof. Edition. Don't know about the Update edition. It would be at about the same price as the current 6.4. In Germany people get more for less (compared to 6.4) when they get the Update Edition, if one doesn't care for the support and the manuals. The German price for the Update edition is less than the price for 6.4, and you actually get more because you now get the DVD also. The missing manuals should be no factor for most people, esp. any update-buyers, you have the pdf version on CD if you like it (actually, I think I like the new revised manual a lot ;-) ).

...

I'm curious how much it will retail at CompUSA or Best Buy which currently sell the $49 SuSE 6.4 for $20-$30. I really like the new DVD and CD combination idea, if nothing else, you could give someone else the CD-ROM copy to get them started with Linux...

Well, we'll have to wait and see... I don't know if we sell the update edition via retail. That would be three different editions, I don't think the stores let us do that, so it's possible you'll have to get the update edition from us. I'm not sure, so don't kill me (why, anyway? but one never knows), I'm just reasoning about what the retailers will let us do and what not.

...

BTW, Michael Smith said he heard that SuSE 7.0 might include a VMWare license - is there any official word on this yet (I wasn't sure from what he wrote if he meant he heard a rumor or if it was confirmed)?

See my prev. mail. VMware is sold for $299. While we certainly like the idea of having a $69 box including a full license of it, I don't think vmware will share this feeling. I really don't think so, we can't do miracles! -- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

fountai＠hursley.ibm.com

07:59

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe

I agree here, and not just because miracles are impossible. When things start getting bundled, some people are happy because they want the bundle, but others immediately start complaining because they don't want to pay for something they don't need. As we've seen on this list over the last few days, even things like manuals and support, which some people need and some don't, cause complaints. The last thing we need is an expensive piece of commercial software in the box. I would like to see "special deals" negotiated for SuSE customers, perhaps with a numbered voucher in the box worth a good discount on Vmware, or Oracle, or whatever. But don't make us all buy a licence we don't necessarily want. I've heard a rumour that a company in Redmond does that sort of thing :)

...

See my prev. mail. VMware is sold for $299. While we certainly like the idea of having a $69 box including a full license of it, I don't think vmware will share this feeling. I really don't think so, we can't do miracles!

-- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

richard＠diddyland.com

10:26

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe - hmm seems like a good deal to me

I installed 6.4 off the free cover of pcplus but u know what i still bought it in the end. o i now own 6.0. .1 .2. .3 .4 can u see a pattern i think its the ease of installing all those additional bits of software. and things like vmware, exceed werent on the mag edition i too am amazed at the amount of time that must be put into building a distro up properly. well done suse u could still do with a section on what can i do with my linux setup though ie for office people - these will be of interest for artists - musicians, these packages for a home network - these There is so much choice on the cd its sometimes hard to know what you should be looking at. but the documentation is getting better. by the way, the search page on the local help system is in German, i havent the foggiest what it means. is this a mistake ? dids -----Original Message----- From: mha@suse.com [mailto:mha@suse.com] Sent: 09 August 2000 05:51 To: tbutler@uninetsolutions.com Cc: SuSE Mailing List Subject: Re: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe "Timothy R. Butler" wrote:

...

Hi Michael, I'm curious, what is the MSRP for the update version and the full pro

versions? $69.95 for the Prof. Edition. Don't know about the Update edition. It would be at about the same price as the current 6.4. In Germany people get more for less (compared to 6.4) when they get the Update Edition, if one doesn't care for the support and the manuals. The German price for the Update edition is less than the price for 6.4, and you actually get more because you now get the DVD also. The missing manuals should be no factor for most people, esp. any update-buyers, you have the pdf version on CD if you like it (actually, I think I like the new revised manual a lot ;-) ).

...

I'm curious how much it will retail at CompUSA or Best Buy which currently sell the $49 SuSE 6.4 for $20-$30. I really like the new DVD and CD combination idea, if nothing else, you could give someone else the CD-ROM copy to get them started with Linux...

...

BTW, Michael Smith said he heard that SuSE 7.0 might include a VMWare

...

is there any official word on this yet (I wasn't sure from what he wrote if he meant he heard a rumor or if it was confirmed)?

mha＠suse.com

16:02

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe - hmm seems like a good deal to me

dids wrote:

...

... by the way, the search page on the local help system is in German, i havent the foggiest what it means.

is this a mistake ?

richard＠diddyland.com

10 Aug 10 Aug

08:22

New subject: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe - hmm seems like a good deal to me

hey i found a mistake, instead of being wrong for a change. does this mean im no longer a newbie ? d'oh! dids -----Original Message----- From: mha@suse.com [mailto:mha@suse.com] Sent: 09 August 2000 17:02 To: dids Cc: Suse-Linux-E Subject: Re: [SLE] SuSE 7 Deluxe - hmm seems like a good deal to me Importance: High dids wrote:

...

... by the way, the search page on the local help system is in German, i havent the foggiest what it means.

is this a mistake ?

It most certainly is. -- Michael Hasenstein http://www.suse.de/~mha/ SuSE Linux AG, Nuernberg (Germany) SuSE Inc., Oakland, California (US) -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq -- To unsubscribe send e-mail to suse-linux-e-unsubscribe@suse.com For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the FAQ at http://www.suse.com/support/faq

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brosenb＠suse.com
donh＠halenet.com.au
dtrotzjr＠inreach.com
fountai＠hursley.ibm.com
fwilde＠chethams.org.uk
herman＠knief.net
mha＠suse.com
richard＠diddyland.com
samelash＠ix.netcom.com
stenhoj＠adr.dk
tb64710＠ltec.net
tbutler＠uninetsolutions.com
vcardona＠home.com