Hi, On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

john bartee writes:

...

Opensuse, I downloaded and burned the iso(s) and then attemtped to install RC1 on my ADM Athlon system.

Old Athlon K7 that identifies as i586 system? We screwed up and did not put the i586 glibc on it, so you need some newer system. Fixed already but we noticed too late :-(

Will it arrive below /pub/suse/i386/update/10.0/ soon? Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

On Friday 09 September 2005 10:20 am, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Eberhard Moenkeberg writes:

...

Hi,

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

john bartee writes:

...

Opensuse, I downloaded and burned the iso(s) and then attemtped to install RC1 on my ADM Athlon system.

Old Athlon K7 that identifies as i586 system? We screwed up and did not put the i586 glibc on it, so you need some newer system. Fixed already but we noticed too late :-(

Will it arrive below /pub/suse/i386/update/10.0/ soon?

No - it won't help, you need it during the installation...

You could use the one from Beta4 and copy it somehow into the installation but that's a gross hack. The final one will have this fixed,

Andreas

Why can't you add it and update the iso? You could put the right one somewhere and tell folks how to update the iso themselves. Wouldn't the instructions be similar to building a DVD? Why just leave it out there broke? -- See Ya' Howard Coles Jr. John 3:16!

On Friday 09 September 2005 11:20, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Eberhard Moenkeberg writes:

...

Hi,

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

john bartee writes:

...

Opensuse, I downloaded and burned the iso(s) and then attemtped to install RC1 on my ADM Athlon system.

Old Athlon K7 that identifies as i586 system? We screwed up and did not put the i586 glibc on it, so you need some newer system. Fixed already but we noticed too late :-(

Will it arrive below /pub/suse/i386/update/10.0/ soon?

No - it won't help, you need it during the installation...

You could use the one from Beta4 and copy it somehow into the installation but that's a gross hack. The final one will have this fixed,

Andreas

Hi All, Maybe this is a stupid question, but how could a missing i586 glibc cause the system to boot once from CD1, perform the preliminary installation, then not boot again **from the same (or a second) CD?** ;-) Am I misinterpreting something here, or does that really not make much sense? If CD1 "completes" and the system resets but then will not boot to the OS *or* from CD1 *or* from CD2, I'd say there are two problems to troubleshoot that may be, or may not be, related. I'd start by troubleshooting the "won't boot (again) from CD1 or CD2" problem: - verify each of the downloaded iso md5sums - check the burned CDs in a couple of other systems to rule out marginal media. One must be convinced that the burned CD product quality is extremely high. - stick another CD drive in the system to rule out marginal hardware. One must be convinced that the booting CD drive is not in some way faulty, failing or marginal. I've had CD drives fail intermittently just before they fail permanently. - verify the BIOS still has boot from CD enabled and the correct boot order set. It's extremely rare, but I've seen these settings change spontaneously... for example, with a marginal battery during an aggressive software probe (gathering hardware information.) This check is very easy, but important. If the BIOS settings aren't the problem, at least this item can be marked off the troubleshooting checklist. I believe that, somewhere in the above tests, the cause will be discovered that will explain why the system will not boot from CD1 or CD2. If it is the media *or* the CD drive, itself... and, remember, it could be _both_ if the drive created the media... then I think the OS should be installed again after the identified problem is corrected. A faulty CD or drive could have caused the preliminary installation to be corrupted in such a way that it will not boot. In such a case, the only way to restore one's confidence in the installed system is to start again from scratch. regards, - Carl

On Friday 09 September 2005 12:34 pm, john bartee wrote:

Carl and all, For clarification, after CD1 appears to complete and "system will now reboot" message and system restarts... TESTS: 1. No CD in drive = reboot getting GRUB error 16 2. CD1 in drive = Boot from harddrive option fails and Installation option will reinstall from scratch 3. CD2 in drive = Will not boot from CD2 FYI, JB PS: Downloading SUSE 9.3 as control test now [...]

I had this happen with Beta 3, I believe, but Beta 4 did not. On the reboot after disc one install, the system failed to reboot with a message of no system on the drive. A restart of the installation fixed things and there was not a problem after that. Don't know what it was or what might have caused it, but it cleared itself up on the second installation attempt. end of line Lee

Hi, On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, john bartee wrote:

I tried several times.. same results each time. I downloaded the SUSE9.3 and it installed CD1 and then asked for CD2 (no reboot) and then went on its merry way. My CDs are good.. that is not the problem. There is something seriously wrong with the installer. :}JB BTW, I downloaded the 1-CD and installed it today also... it had the same problem (and there is no CD2 to ask for). Go figure..

If you run into any show stopper, it is your task within this list to document your situation as detailed as possible. "Detailed" in that situation is probably hard work for you: taking pencil and paper and write down letter by letter what you get told on the screen (because you do not reach the point where you could cut & paste or even grep). So please struggle to deliver useful things until you die, or die without. But nothing between. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)

On Friday 09 September 2005 19:05, Carl Hartung wrote:

If CD1 "completes" and the system resets but then will not boot to the OS *or* from CD1 *or* from CD2, I'd say there are two problems to troubleshoot that may be, or may not be, related.

Where exactly does the booting stop? I had just had a case in which SUSE kernel didn't initialize with standard 8259 PIC that it was trying to use (ie. noapic setting). Worked fine with apic though (ASUS A8N8x, 64bit x86-64). -- // Janne

On Saturday 10 September 2005 13:13, john bartee wrote: <snip>

It will not boot to CD2 but I opened that CD up on another platform and it is fine. <snip>

Hi John, The boot image on CD2 is an alternate format designed to work with certain odd or older proprietary CD-ROM drives that will not boot from the normal image on CD1. The details of the differences between the two formats escapes me at the moment because I tend to only retain the important stuff. You can Google for it if you're inquisitive, but the bottom line is you're able to boot CD1 so the image on CD2 is irrelevant. regards, - Carl

On Saturday 10 September 2005 02:06, Janne Karhunen wrote:

On Friday 09 September 2005 19:05, Carl Hartung wrote:

...

If CD1 "completes" and the system resets but then will not boot to the OS *or* from CD1 *or* from CD2, I'd say there are two problems to troubleshoot that may be, or may not be, related.

Where exactly does the booting stop? I had just had a case in which SUSE kernel didn't initialize with standard 8259 PIC that it was trying to use (ie. noapic setting). Worked fine with apic though (ASUS A8N8x, 64bit x86-64).

Hi Janne, There was a miscommunication. The OP (John) later clarified that after completing 'phase 1' of the installation (where the system reboots from the hard drive and the installation continues) the system would *not* boot, displaying a grub "error 16" message instead. Had John stopped at that point in the original post, it would have been much clearer to us what suggestions to make. But he continued, writing that the system would also not boot from CD1 or CD2... leading to discussions of a missing i586 glibc, the need to verify md5sums, verify his media, check the CD drive and/or burner, etc. What he was really trying to say was the boot process was failing at stage 2. - Carl And, John, assuming you'll catch the revival/continuation of this thread: I agree that there may be a problem with the 10.0 installer, based solely upon the fact that the 9.2 and 9.3 installers, and others, apparently worked. However, I really doubt the problem is "serious" and, the truth is, someone more familiar with Linux and SUSE, SUSE's installation system and the boot process, itself, might have had that RC1 installation back on track within a few minutes of seeing the first "error 16." I realize that you were probably grouchy after running around in circles, and the situation appears worse for 10.0 given that the other installers worked, but I don't think it's productive or fair of you to throw this beautiful baby out with the bath water by judging it too harshly based upon a single hiccup. To wit: The boot menu you get when booting from CD1 is basically the same as the menu you get when you boot from the hard drive after the boot loader has been installed (during 'phase 1'.) The only major difference is that the menu on CD1 hasn't been tailored to the system... it is generic. Getting back to your experience, selecting "boot from hard disk" in both cases was telling grub to load the installed Linux system, but grub wasn't finding it. That "Error 16" was telling you grub was seeing a different file system structure than the one it expected and, appropriately, it was refusing to touch it (instead of potentially trashing data or another OS.) The reason it dropped you to the grub command line was to give you the opportunity to boot the installed system manually... assuming you knew the commands and where the system was located. In any event, I think the boot loader configuration module was probably confused by the many partitions and multiple OS's already installed on that system. Instead of checking the proposed configuration and making corrections, you just accepted the "autopilot" decisions and proceeded. I've seen this before, but intervened so that a correct configuration was written. And for future reference, during installation, there is a rescue-like root console running on tty2. You access it with the key combination Ctl+Alt+F2. The only requirement after booting from CD1 is that you proceed beyond the initial, dumb, boot menu to initiate the installation system, itself. Otherwise, the installation kernel hasn't been loaded into memory and the console at tty2 isn't available. When you're there, issuing "mount" will show you what's mounted and what isn't. If the target partition isn't mounted, you mount it manually and navigate to /boot/grub to view the contents of menu.lst ("cat menu.lst"). That will tell you immediately if grub has been pointed to the correct partition. If not, you edit menu.lst with vi to fix the problem, unmount the partition, return to the installer (Ctl+Alt+F7) and abort the installation. That will cleanly reboot the system and your installation will proceed. Situation conquered using the command line. If this diagnosis is off target, I'd sure like to know what was found. regards, - Carl

Carl, I will give that a go. I was not denigrating the product only letting the list know that the Release Candidate would not install for me -- which is a big deal if this is getting ready for prime time. I have never had any issues nor had to use such a manual kludge to install any of the many SUSE installations I have done over the years (maybe I am just lucky). I apologize for any sloppy reporting and will provide more precise diagnosis in the future. :} JB PS: I have 9.3 installed from the download site and I tried to upgrade using RC1 and it wanted to reboot after CD1 (which I do not believe should be happening based upon previous experiences) and it ends up after rebooting with the same GRUB 16 error --- just an FYI). I thought it might take a different path and thus overcome the glitch. Carl Hartung wrote:

oops (blush) correction:

On Saturday 10 September 2005 13:52, Carl Hartung wrote: <snippage>

...

When you're there, issuing "mount" will show you what's mounted and what isn't.

Corrected: "When you're there, issuing "mount" will show you what's mounted." Of course it won't display devices that aren't mounted.

- Carl (gone for coffee)

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Carl, I tried the steps but there is no /boot/grub on this system from Rescue's viewpoint. I am not going to use KILLDISK to totally clean up the drive and then try reinstalling RC1. It may indeed be that the previous installs have caused confusion and this will eliminate that possibility for the next install attempt. You information on ERROR 16 made me consider this and head in this direction. Will let you know. :} JB Carl Hartung wrote:

On Saturday 10 September 2005 14:35, john bartee wrote:

...

Carl, I will give that a go. I was not denigrating the product only letting the list know that the Release Candidate would not install for me -- which is a big deal if this is getting ready for prime time. I have never had any issues nor had to use such a manual kludge to install any of the many SUSE installations I have done over the years (maybe I am just lucky). I apologize for any sloppy reporting and will provide more precise diagnosis in the future.

Hi John,

It's only a "big deal" if it fails to install on a 'typical' newcomer's system... you know, M$haft eating up a single drive and, maybe, a new second drive installed for Linux. Most people with multiple OS's and many partitions on their systems are presumed, I think, to know how to deal with hiccups. The boot loader configuration module isn't sentient :-) much less perfect... so when it gets confused, you've got to be prepared to intervene. That's why I always check it before committing any changes. And the fact that neither of us has to do that very often is a testament to the ingenuity of everyone at SUSE.

Also, I left out a couple of important points in case you are new to Grub. It starts counting at '0' and defaults to omitting /dev/hdb (presumed optical.) Example "grub speak":

/dev/hda1 = hd0,0 /dev/hda2 = hd0,1 /dev/hda3 = hd0,2 ... /dev/hdc1 = hd1,0 /dev/hdc2 = hd1,1 /dev/hdc3 = hd1,2 and so on.

So, if you see the directive "kernel (hd3,4)/boot/vmlinuz" in Grub's menu.lst (which resides in /boot/grub/) it is pointing to a Linux system installed on /dev/hde4. If you mount /dev/hde4 and don't see a /boot directory containing the files initrd or vmlinuz, you know that menu.lst entry is bogus.

hth & regards,

- Carl

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On Saturday 10 September 2005 18:00, john bartee wrote:

Carl, I ran KILLDISK to wipe the drive and then tried a fresh RC1 install. It worked this time. The little GRUBS or bits left over from past installs on this crash and burn drive were the culprit. I do have an observation about the installer. In the past the installer prompted for CD2 while in the CD1 process ... then prompted for the other CDs if needed and then rebooted/finished. Now after CD1 it reboots, and I think that is where the problem exists in an environment like I had. Thanks for all your help.. looks good so far. FYI, JB

Happy to hear it, John, and thanks for the progress report. I'm glad your patience finally paid off. ;-) Now I sure hope you enjoy it as much as I've been enjoying it... which is immensely... cause I think SUSE and Novell deserve as many converts/advocates at Oracle as they can get. Seems to me the combination is as natural as apple pie and ice cream (and I *love* apple pie and ice cream!) regards, - Carl

Andreas, Carl, et al, I just installed the KDE 1-CD-INSTALL now and I am very impressed. This is a really great product. I am hoping to convert my Oracle folks to SUSE but it is more politics than anything. I think the United Linux venture spoiled the soup a little, but I will do my best to spread the word. I have emailed Dave Hare VP, to take a look at this and move us toward OpenSuse for our desktops as well as servers. The ship is big and the rudder moves it very slowly.... but I am hopeful. I think a "KNOPPIX-like 1_CD" that could be popped into the drives of hardcode-Windows-devotees, would go a long way in spreading the movement. One with end-user applications instead of tech-weenie utilities so they can see that their key apps are there and the internet, mail, and aim/chat will not be sacrificed. A one-CD "pop and swap", a flipper - a demo at their own desk, in their own chair, and on their own terms... with time to play around. When you "chum" the waters, you catch more fish. :} JB Andreas Girardet wrote:

...

been enjoying it... which is immensely... cause I think SUSE and

Novell

...

deserve as many converts/advocates at Oracle as they can get. Seems

to me

...

the combination is as natural as apple pie and ice cream (and I

*love* apple

We just ran a Roadshow with Oracle and HP here in New Zealand and the combination SUSE-Oracle was certainly appreciated, very natural and customers seem to love it. Could convert one of their engineers who held the Oracle course at the Roadshow to SUSE ;) .....

Andreas

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...

...

On Sun, Sep 11, 2005 at 1:15 pm, in message <43238524.7090902@oracle.com>, john.bartee@oracle.com wrote: Andreas, Carl, et al,

I just installed the KDE 1- CD- INSTALL now and I am very impressed. This is a really great product.

I am hoping to convert my Oracle folks to SUSE but it is more

Thank the guys and girls at SUSE, since they have done the amazing work. Creating a 1 CD installer on their work is trivial compared to the distro and I don't really have anything to do with that (unfortunately ..... I would love to move to Nuernberg though .. hint hint) politics

than anything. I think the United Linux venture spoiled the soup a little, but I will do my best to spread the word. I have emailed Dave

Hare VP, to take a look at this and move us toward OpenSuse for our desktops as well as servers. The ship is big and the rudder moves it

very slowly.... but I am hopeful.

If there is anything we can do to help, let me know.

I think a "KNOPPIX- like 1_CD" that could be popped into the drives of hardcode- Windows- devotees, would go a long way in spreading the movement. One with end- user applications instead of tech- weenie utilities so they can see that their key apps are there and the internet, mail, and aim/chat will not be sacrificed.

I totally agree and Knoppix has a good name and is developed by a group of excellent engineers. To use their work to base this LIVECD on would be IMHO a great plus as we don't have to reinvent the wheel, we would use the clever scripting done by Dr Knopper and his team and would not need to maintain too much.

From memory is is not too hard to get the knoppix /etc/ going with any distro (as a quick hack it took me possible 16 work hours in the past. That way we can rely on the good work of others and maybe convince Dr. Knopper to use SUSE ;) .... I talked to him in the past about doing a Knoppix for other distro's apart from Debian and he is certainly open minded, but personally does not see the need to maintain more than one. Maybe we could approach him and suggest to collaborate and have some sort of collaboration started between the openSUSE project and Knoppix?

I would be keen, but we certainly would ideally need someone that would maintain it ongoing. I could do a first hack, but someone would have to take this over from me as I would be unable to continue maintaining it really. Too many other things on and I do have a consulting job at Novell also, which keeps me entertained and busy .... However we do have a LIVEDVD already. The only issue with that is possibly the size, but we could also use the official liveDVD as a basis and create a 1CD version. As usual I think that the lowest common denominator is the option normal users would need (CD as opposed to DVD). Regards, Andreas Girardet openSUSE is SUPER: To help in the SUSE Performance Enhanced Release project visit http://www.opensuse.org/SUPER